but it use when 'pressing on' cannot be ignored
Couldn't disagree more. Public roads aren't the place to press on. And just "pressing on" you aren't gong to reach the slip angles where left-foot braking makes any difference to trajectory.
You do realise that on road tyres there isn't the progressive increase in slip angles you get on competition compounds and if you left foot brake hard enough (if the braking balance to the rear allows you which in a modern car is unlikely) to neutralise understeer you're on a knife edge between neutral drift and spin - with people coming the other way. Mad, stupid, anti-social, murderous.
No I don't now but I did and I've been knocked off my bike a couple of times, none were because the car/truck was speeding.This blinkered view that under the limit=safe and over=unsafe is ridiculous and dangerous.
I think you'll find that it's your view that is blinkered. Just because when YOU were knocked off and the reason wasn't speed, it doesn't mean that excessive speed (along with arrogance and impatience) isn't a danger to cyclists (and walkers and horses) on B roads.
without advanced driving techniques such as I have outlined you are doing nothing more than driving like sausages in family cars
"Advanced driving techniques" are for race tracks, rally stages, kart circuits... not public roads. There's no place for them on public roads, literally no place - as in not enough space. If you're going fast enough to need advanced techniques you're going too fast for the public road.
There are two important techniques on the road and there's nothing advanced about them: anticipation and observation. Add a large dose of caution, a measure of restraint, some tolerance and respect for the highway code. All within the ability of every road user.
Speed limits are a blunt tool. Sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow - though that can depend on person, their state (tired etc), the car, the weather, traffic conditions, time of day, visibility etc.
I'll admit it - I speed. Empty motorway or a nice open A road...
I often drive far below the limit too.
However, I do drive an MX5 so generally I feel like I'm speeding, when I'm not.
I do like to stick to 60 round an A road corner though.
This thread is about flouting the rules, once a rule's broken then 'in for a penny, in for a pound' or 'better to be hung for a lion as a lamb' or 'a rolling stone gathers no moss' take your pick.
I'm off to do a handbrake turn
giantalkali - Memberwithout advanced driving techniques such as I have outlined you are doing nothing more than driving like sausages in family cars
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the type of bellend that causes accidents.
You've probably read about "left foot braking" and had a go at using your left foot to press the brake with zero understanding about what it does and why you would want to use it.
It's something I was shown on a track by a professional racing driver, before being told it's not something one would ever need to do on the road. I was taught to concentrate on rev-matching and heel-and-toeing when necessary, but H&T is not something I do generally - just when having a play so it remains second nature when needed.
Neither LFB or H&T are part of Advanced Driver Training.
Come back when you've passed your driving test Councilof1
I think you'll find that it's your view that is blinkered. Just because when YOU were knocked off and the reason wasn't speed, it doesn't mean that excessive speed (along with arrogance and impatience) isn't a danger to cyclists (and walkers and horses) on B roads.
Pfft. Go out on a 60mph road and get hit by a car doing 50 and then by a car doing 70 and tell me if you feel the difference.
Yeah I'm being flippant but you completely ignored the bit about driving safely. Slow driving is not automatically safe driving. Fast driving is not automatically dangerous driving. There is an optimum given speed for every scenario but there is only one standard of driving for all of them and that is safe driving.
I've driven, I would estimate, 250k miles in my life and have never had any sort of ticket or fine etc. Although I've been involved in collisions (one of which maimed my wife for life) I have never been at fault or held liable for any damages. That is not proof of anything and I'm certainly not trying to "show off" but it does rather conflict with your implication of a habit of excessive speed, arrogance and impatience doesn't it?
This thread is about flouting the rules, once a rule's broken then 'in for a penny, in for a pound' or 'better to be hung for a lion as a lamb' or 'a rolling stone gathers no moss' take your pick.
Oh dear.
Lots of handbrake turns, no rules broken:
councilof10 - MemberNeither LFB or H&T are part of Advanced Driver Training.
Neither are engine braking or speeding, which you'd know if you'd done the IAM course.
😀
The fantasist is easy to spot.
See also anyone that equates "making progress" with speeding.
Is there any other facet of life that makes people so indignant about their right to ignore the law?
Give it another 20yrs and speeding will be viewed in the tsame way drink-driving now is.
Hopefully in twenty years time every car will have its speed limited by a limiter tied to a GPS data base. I'd vote for it today.
Hopefully in twenty years we will have driver training and testing which is worth a damn. No, people can't be forced to drive well but teaching them how to do so in the first place would be be a good start. The current driving test is a joke.
I know I can be better which is why I'm going to do advanced training, I'm just ashamed it's taken me nearly 20 years to do it.
Hopefully in twenty years private ownership of cars will be restricted
sbob - MemberNeither are engine braking or speeding, which you'd know if you'd done the IAM course.
Engine braking is covered in the standard driving test. 🙄
I know I can be better which is why I'm going to do advanced training, I'm just ashamed it's taken me nearly 20 years to do it.
You'll really enjoy it, never too late to change habits.
This place never fails to amaze me. Most people are given a driving licence after very rudimentary training, and never feel the need to undergo any other training. VERY few motorists have even had practical tuition on motorways.
And then when someone like myself seeks further training (I thought it would be very useful for my job at the time, which it was), I get ridiculed by people who might only have had a dozen or so driving lessons!
councilof10 - MemberEngine braking is covered in the standard driving test.
Correct, except you're taught not to do it. 😆
Brakes to slow, gears to go.
One might select a low gear when faced with a steep downhill gradient, but then that's maintaining a low speed, not braking down to one.
You've probably read about "left foot braking" and had a go at using your left foot to press the brake with zero understanding about what it does and why you would want to use it.
I know all about left foot braking, I've done it several times when I've gone from driving a manual to an automatic and tried putting my left foot on what I was expecting to be the clutch... 😳
As I drive on average three different vehicles a day, of all sorts of makes and models, from a Smart fourtwo up to a Maserati Ghibli, and 3.5t Transit builder's trucks and fifteen-seat minibuses, it's easy to forget for a second what the transmission is.
It's particularly embarrassing when there are amused witnesses...
I also often use engine braking, when I'm following cars where I see the brake lights flashing all the time when entering gentle bends, I'm using the gearbox to maintain pretty much a constant speed, I've been doing it pretty much since I got my licence in 1976, and in poor weather conditions, particularly snow, I've only had my car slide off the road once, when I touched the brakes at the last moment to turn onto another road, and drifted gently onto a grass verge. I'd used the engine to gradually slow from 30-40ish down to walking pace when I slid.
I'll continue to use a process that some seem to think doesn't work, because it has for all the years I've been driving.
Of course, that's only with a manual, and a diesel currently, it's not as effective with a petrol, but I have used it for years in previous cars.
"Advanced driving techniques" are for race tracks, rally stages, kart circuits... not public roads. There's no place for them on public roads, literally no place - as in not enough space. If you're going fast enough to need advanced techniques you're going too fast for the public road.There are two important techniques on the road and there's nothing advanced about them: anticipation and observation. Add a large dose of caution, a measure of restraint, some tolerance and respect for the highway code. All within the ability of every road user.
I agree totally with everything you've just said there, other than the final sentence.
About the only reason I can see to be even mentioning heel-and-toe or left-foot braking on a discussion about road driving is to boost the size of your e-peen. Honestly, it'll be double declutching next. 🙄 Both "have their uses" sure, but in extraordinary circumstances such as using h&t to get you home after your clutch cable snaps.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the type of bellend that causes accidents.
I'd filed it under "do not feed the troll" TBH. He's made several out-of-context remarks trying to get a bite now.
There are two important techniques on the road and there's nothing advanced about them: anticipation and observation. Add a large dose of caution, a measure of restraint, some tolerance and respect for the highway code. All within the ability of every road user.
Thank you. If only more people thought this way. A car is a huge weight that can travel very, very fast. A large percentage of people should treat them with way more respect than they do.
Correct, except you're taught not to do it.Brakes to slow, gears to go.
One might select a low gear when faced with a steep downhill gradient, but then that's maintaining a low speed, not braking down to one.
Indeed. Back when I passed my test in 1990, I believe that being taught to block change when decelerating rather than going down through the gears individually was a relatively new introduction. I do a bit of both depending on the situation.
As Bob and CZ have said, engine braking is good for maintaining a speed. In a modern car engine braking is of nominal practical use when coming to a stop. ABS > drum brakes.
Going down an incline (well, a decline I suppose, but that sounds weird), I like to see how far I can travel without touching the brakes whilst watching the car in front's brake lights flashing on and off like hazard indicators.
Correct, except you're taught not to do it.Brakes to slow, gears to go.
You're made aware of it and its effects are explained.
But, you're moving away from why I mentioned engine braking and suggesting that I'm extolling its virtues as a way of controlling speed instead of brakes - I'm not.
If you look back at why I raised the issue of engine braking, it was with regard to cruise control...
If you're traveling at 70mph on a motorway and the car in front brakes hard, assuming you're NOT using cruise control, the slowing of your own vehicle begins the instant you lift off. So by the time you've taken Mr Foot off Mr Throttle and put it on Mr Brake Pedal*, your car has already begun to decelerate, possibly buying you precious meters of braking distance.
*Reference to a very old joke about being pulled over by a Welsh Police Officer
There is research regarding the percentage of drivers who think that they are above the average. In a number of studies it is usually shown to be between 73% and 90%
I don't rate my own driving above competent and mostly safe, the advanced training I had was decades ago, and most of that concentrated on observation and caution.
Training can of course improve performance but it could also lead to illusory superiority.
regarding ACC, insurance companies appear to believe that it reduces the risk of collisions, certainly when combined with low speed urban anti collision software, as it has reduced the insurance premiums for vehicles fitted with it, mine included. however, like any aid, people need to be aware of the limitations and not rely on it.
you're moving away from why I mentioned engine braking
I'm just wondering why someone who purports to be an advanced driver would repeatedly use terms in a manner that advanced training specifically rejects.
Making progress ? speeding.
Decelerating ? engine braking.
Just an observation. I've been trained to do that. 🙂
Making progress ? speeding.
Decelerating ? engine braking.Just an observation. I've been trained to do that.
What on earth are you talking about???
Is this another case of:
Cougar - Moderator
I'd filed it under "do not feed the troll" TBH.
What on earth are you talking about?
I'm saying you sound nothing like an advanced driver.
I've pointed out why.
Calling me a troll rather than refuting what I've said only serves to confirm my suspicions.
If you're traveling at 70mph on a motorway and the car in front brakes hard, assuming you're NOT using cruise control, the slowing of your own vehicle begins the instant you lift off. So by the time you've taken Mr Foot off Mr Throttle and put it on Mr Brake Pedal*, your car has already begun to decelerate, possibly buying you precious meters of braking distance.
So you're against cruise control because you're driving too close to the car in front?
There is research regarding the percentage of drivers who think that they are above the average. In a number of studies it is usually shown to be between 73% and 90%
Wouldn't surprise me. Many people either don't know they're [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence ]incompetent[/url] or wouldn't admit to it when asked.
I'd consider myself to be an above-average driver, not because I'm some driving god*, but because the average driver is bloody awful. It's a low bar.
(* - though I am, obvs)
Going down an incline (well, a decline I suppose, but that sounds weird), I like to see how far I can travel without touching the brakes whilst watching the car in front's brake lights flashing on and off like hazard indicators
This and slowing down to hit a speed change (say 50 to 30) without touching the brakes are two of the small pleasures I still get from driving. Very sad, but when my bonnet passes the 30 sign and the car has just hit 30, nod of the head, small smirk and fist pump 🙂 it's even better if the person in front of you has just slammed the brakes on in order to slow enough
In a similar vein,
Approaching a red traffic light on an incline, I sometimes like to gauge my speed and then push the clutch in to try to land on the white line without needing to touch the brake or reengage the transmission.
So you're against cruise control because you're driving too close to the car in front?
Don't you start! 🙄
I use H&T and the occasional double declutch in normal everyday driving, without ever driving like a bellend Mansell wannabe. 🙂
Edukator - Reformed Troll
"Advanced driving techniques" are for race tracks, rally stages, kart circuits... not public roads. There's no place for them on public roads, literally no place - as in not enough space. If you're going fast enough to need advanced techniques you're going too fast for the public road.There are two important techniques on the road and there's nothing advanced about them: anticipation and observation. Add a large dose of caution, a measure of restraint, some tolerance and respect for the highway code. All within the ability of every road user.
+ lots.
End of thread.
And yet it continues
I slowed down after passing my young children out through the broken windows of our overturned car, after a tyre blow out. Its when it all goes wrong you realise how fragile life really is. Plenty of heroes told me afterwards what they'd have done etc, but in reality you cling on for dear life.
These days I get where I'm going with a lot less stress. I try to ignore what others are doing wrong, it just winds folk up.
The inappropriate use of speed in dangerous situations pisses me off though, near Schools, Town Centres, Housing Estates etc. They could stick a speed camera on every lampost for me.
They could stick a speed camera on every lampost for me.
Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving. The driver that overtook me on a blind bend this morning wasn't speeding but it was as close to an accident you can get without actually having one.
Would have preferred for him to wait and then overtake me after the corner even if he was speeding to overtake....
Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving.
No, not necessarily, but it impacts the outcomes.
Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving.
The desire for speed, and the frustration of some drivers who aren't achieving it, can be the root cause of plenty of bad driving IME. It is quite possible to be safe while you're 'making progress', but there are quite a few drivers whose lack of patience and feelings of entitlement means they'll risk themselves and others to get there.
Modern cars are so cushioned people don't realise how fast they are going.
Some people never walk or cycle anywhere, so they have no experience of seeing it from another perspective.
But the main reason is, a lot of drivers are tosspots.
Compulsory self-driving cars can't come soon enough.
Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving.
Nope, but it can make the outcome of any incident a hell of a lot worse for all involved. Consequences of speed innit
I had a complete dick the other day indicate and pull out on me [i]while I was actually overtaking and alongside![/i]
He was driving a T5 behind a truck, I was coming up behind him in the middle lane with faster traffic approaching from behind in the outside lane. As I got about a third of the way past he just stuck his indicator on and pulled out! I hit the horn and the brakes, fortunately there wasn't anyone close behind and shitforbrains just carried on past the truck. As I went past him after he pulled back in I looked across and he just had a smug grin on his face!
Unbelievably bad driving, seems that having a posh van gave him a sense of entitlement with its own postcode.
At the time I had the cruise control set to give me a steady 70mph, consistent with the prevailing traffic and weather conditions.
Just thinking about it makes me tense up again. 👿
At the time I had the cruise control set to give me a steady 70mph, consistent with the prevailing traffic and weather conditions.
If you hadn't been using cruise control, you would have been able to react quicker. 😉
top trolling shib 🙄
[quote=Cougar ]About the only reason I can see to be even mentioning heel-and-toe or left-foot braking on a discussion about road driving is to boost the size of your e-peen. Honestly, it'll be double declutching next. Both "have their uses" sure, but in extraordinary circumstances such as using h&t to get you home after your clutch cable snaps.
You're surely better off left foot braking then h&ting in that case 😉
I know it's the law so there's no excuse for speeding but personally I tend to speed from time to time. Always on motorways or dual carriageway A roads and when conditions allow (lack of traffic, good weather/visibility). Not saying I'm right to speed but to me going 80-90 isn't unsafe (if I had a blow-out I doubt there would be much difference in the outcome). That said I am booked on a speed awareness course in October so 'getting caught' was a bit of a wake up call and I'm trying to stay at 70 now...
I'm sure some people view it as just as bad as someone doing 60 past through a school 20 zone but I don't...
top trolling shib
Self-confessed. Probably hasn't even got a driving licence. 😀
I used to love this place... I'd stroll into a debate, drop one of my trademark slightly fascist or intolerant "thread bombs" and watch the liberals running round like headless chucks trying out out-do one another in the mock indignation stakes.Now the liberals have cottoned on to my little game, and I'm not sure I like it!
Funny how some dimwits feel that they are more clever than the people who put the limits up or stick to them. To say that you are clever enough not to be a danger misses the point somewhat. The law says you don't speed. End of story.
To go out to have fun on the roads is also rather nasty at best. Have fun where there is no potential to hurt others.
Might I add that this response is at least a million times wound back from my actual feelings.
I fail to see why speed cameras are not more common. As said, one on every limit sign with a no options decent* fine attached would soon pay for them.
* Needs to be 4 digits before any decimal points. Driving bans as well . This would have the benefit of removing the crap drivers from the road thus reducing stupidity and numbers.
Being an awkward sod I take great pleasure in doing my best to piss off those who feel speeding is acceptable.