[i]DIY Rollers
molgrips - Member
As in training rollers. Anyone tried it? [b]Rollers are way more expenisve than they should be[/b], and you can get conveyor belt parts for cheap on ebay... [/i]
You were [s]insulting[/s] saying, or something.
[i]Rollers are way more expenisve than they should be[/i]
Damn that tax and those silly, greedy, employees, eh?
I asked if anyone had tried it. That's a long way from saying I'm going to do it!
Honestly I think you need to go on a bike ride or something 🙂
[i]molgrips - Member
I asked if anyone had tried it. That's a long way from saying I'm going to do it! [/i]
Sounds like it...
[i]molgrips - Member
Although.. resistance coupled with a big piece of ply that can be inclined.. could be good..[/i]
But yeah, you're probably right there. You... doing something?
I think I see the flaw in your plan.
imnotverygood - Member
The point is, you couldn't earn that money without the rest of society allowing you to do so. The money isn't yours just because that is what is in your pay packet. There are 60 million people in the country, you don't get paid in isolation.
Well that's a new take on wages and how they are determined?
Whose money is it then?
Well clearly if it's income tax via PAYE then it was your employer's and now it is the government's. At no point was it ever yours. We come back to whether there's a real difference between an employee paying income tax via PAYE and employers paying "employee tax".
I'd suggest not wasting your time going on about how those positions need to attract the best from the private sector. It's clear to me, what they're really good at.
They're clearly vastly overpaid for the job they do, when other people work just as hard and earn a lot less.
Aracer - you may as well strip out all of your deductions then???? And see what's yours at the end of it.....does part of my wage belong to rail company that I use to get to work before it belongs to me?
Little wonder the questions you ask, do not merit a reply.
You do know you said that in a reply * 😯
FWIW the subtle beauty of your trolling is slowly growing on me 8)
* rhetorical and I am certain you will resist the urge to reply
you may as well strip out all of your deductions then
His argument was they were never given to you therefore they cannot be deductions.
would it be more acceptable if they were paid £140k with no income tax, and their company was required to pay "employee tax" at 80%, so that money they have "pulled out of them" not only never appears in their bank account, it doesn't even appear on their pay slip?
does part of my wage belong to rail company that I use to get to work before it belongs to me?
You should think about taking legal action as I believe the truck system was outlawed centuries ago. I think this is the current law you need:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18
An answer would be more interesting first - then I can re-write my labour economics notes.
Well as I just wrote, if it's being compulsorily deducted from your wages at source, then that is illegal.
Phew!
[quote=Solo ad-hommed]Little wonder the questions you ask, do not merit a reply.
What all of them, even simple ones like this? I'll have to assume a lack of reply means it's actually a lack of capability to reply on your part.
I think the use of the word "give" above is very interesting. An employer doesn't give you your salary, it's earn't. I see on STW frequent differentiation of money earnt when discussing normal (worthy?) jobs/salaries but when speaking of higher amounts there is an agenda of that money not being fairly earnt and the use of the word gift here seems to tie in to that.
I don't buy at all the concept that tax is money you never had, it is absolutely a deduction from your salary. The employer was willing to pay you that larger gross amount (and to pay the employer NI on top) in return for the work you did. If you do take the counter-view that you only receive the net amount (ie the employer pays the tax) then when government tax policy changes you could well get a pay cut, that you are going to notice. That is money you had but which you not longer get.
EDIT: just a further note on "your" money, if you are set up as a business and receive a fee for the work/service then it's very much your money, if you happen to base yourself/business offshore then you can determine how much tax you pay based upon how your business is organized. I really think this "not your" money point is a total red herring.
I really think this "not your" money point is a total red herring.
It shouldn't be your money. If you are basing yourself offshore to evade tax, then you're stealing the government's money. No?
It's not the governments money. It's the rent you receive from supplying your factor of production (your labour). From YOUR money you pay directly and indirectly for services received - for government services this is typically isn't the form of a tax. The governments are responsible to us for allocating resources that are better supplied by them in an efficient manner. We are on a slippery slope if we let them ignore that responsibility and assumed that the factor rent (wages) is automatically their's. It isn't.
From YOUR money you pay directly and indirectly for services received
No, that's paying for services - completely different to taxation.
We are on a slippery slope if we let them ignore that responsibility and assumed that the factor rent (wages) is automatically their's.
That doesn't follow on from my point at all.
Oh dear....
Oh dear yourself.
I don't buy at all the concept that tax is money you never had
It's never seemed all that conceptual to me when on PAYE.
To come back to the "employee tax" thing, employers deduct the taxes and simply pay you the net amount of your salary - [b]their[/b] payment to HMRC can be almost a month later (or in some cases only quarterly).
EDIT: just a further note on "your" money, if you are set up as a business and receive a fee for the work/service then it's very much your money
In fact you'll find that it's your business which receives a fee, and your business' money. If you want to convert it to your money then either (as you point out) you have to reside offshore (in which case this discussion doesn't really apply) or you have to pay your taxes.
Now now boys. Calm down. Heres a picture of some kittens....
[img] 
[/img]
Awwwwwwwwwww
Actually here's another one for you. When your mum dies and leaves you £1 million, whose money is the inheritance tax?
Are they checking [s]what size wheels we're using[/s] if we're using 650B wheels, binners?
Aracer - still a few minutes left to edit the question appropriately
Sorry, done
😀 😀
Good priorities!
jambalaya - MemberI don't buy at all the concept that tax is money you never had, it is absolutely a deduction from your salary.
Not mutually exclusive.
You have the obligation to pay tax to the government. It's your money paid to you by your employer from which you make a payment to the government. In the UK under PAYE that happens immediately. If you are self employed there will be a delay and indeed some uncertainly about how much you might pay based upon offsetting allowances/expenses. If you are in Singapore (excuse me using the example yet again) you get paid gross (no deductions) and you pay the government the tax upto 18 months later.
It's your money, you are obliged to pay some of it to the government.
@aracer, on the IHT the government requires the estate to pay tax, so the money is taken before you receive it. Generally in a will you leave people amounts or percentages of the estate net of taxes and expenses.
@binners, are those your kittens or do some belong to the government ?
From a technical perspective, tax on your salary is borne by you the employee i.e. it is your liability - PAYE is a collection mechanism as are VAT and withholding taxes. Companies are merely acting as unpaid agents of the government.
[quote=jambalaya said]@binners, are those your kittens or do some belong to the government ?
They never belonged to Binners but he paid for them
if you are set up as a business
bit confused there, mate - think you're trying to say if there is a company owned by you is in the mix...
@kona just an example to try and show that if you are doing work and being paid for it that the money is yours in return for the job done. You may be PAYE, you may be setup as a company. In the latter case tax is paid later and the amount can vary a lot depending upon offsets. Posters here have tried to argue that as PAYE is taken "at source" ie immediately somehow you should think of that as never having been your money.
if you are doing work and being paid for it that the money is yours in return for the job done
No it's not. You're never entitled to it - so the actual flow of cash is irrelevant.
Your employer offers you a compensation package for the work you do. This has a given value, and it's not all cash of course. You assess the value to decide if it's worth it. It's value to you is NET of tax, and you know this up front. You never get the tax money, and there aren't any circumstances in which you get to keep it, so it's never really yours.
If someone offers you a £48kpa job, do you think 'oh great, £4k per month!' then grumble and complain when some gets taken away? If you do, you're an idiot. The sensible thought is 'Oh great, £2,915.14 per month!'
molgrips - that is absolute rot, how much tax you pay is determined by your personal circumstances, some of these may be reflected in your personal tax code so your employer will reflect them at source, others will not. Your employer will not reduce your gross salary because your tax code means you get a higher net salary than they anticipated nor will the reverse happen if you have a zero code.
Yes technically there are differences, but you know your own tax code, so you know what your own take home would be. The point is that why would you ever look at the gross figure other than for comparison purposes?
It's like buying a car and being all upset when it doesn't get the government fuel test figures when you drive it.
It's money that you're not entitled to. End of.
If I make charitable donations I'm entitled to it, if i pay qualifying interest I'm entitled to it, if I make losses on unquoted shares I'm entitled to it ... do you want me to go on there are plenty more?
FFS no I don't, cos it's not relevant. The exact figure is not important in this particular argument.
@molgrips - my employer paid me the same money for the same job in London vs Singapore (and would have done had I gone to Dubai) - tax rates are roughly 40%, 20% and 0% respectively. Also see my example of getting paid via a service business or via paye. Your payslip says [b]deductions[/b] for a reason.
Of course its relevant, it just rather inconvenient because it proves the point that you were making is a load of baloney. It is quite clear that money collected through PAYE is money you can become entitled to, so to suggest it is never yours is simply wrong.
Your employer offers you a compensation package for the work you do. This has a given value, and it's not all cash of course. You assess the value to decide if it's worth it. It's value to you is NET of tax, and you know this up front. You never get the tax money, and there aren't any circumstances in which you get to keep it, so it's never really yours.If someone offers you a £48kpa job, do you think 'oh great, £4k per month!' then grumble and complain when some gets taken away? If you do, you're an idiot. The sensible thought is 'Oh great, £2,915.14 per month!'
Do income tax changes affect your gross or net wages?
If taxes goes up, does the difference come out of your employers pocket or your take home pay?
Thats the flaw in your argument...
(edit, I see Jambalaya's thought processes were going along similar lines before I refreshed)
molgrips seems a thoroughly decent and smart fellow, I can only assume someone has hacked his account and is posting this
😆
Is tax optional?
