[Closed] Fracking in Lancashire

Lancashire - We've got wind turbines all over the place. hundreds of 'em!

Money money money it's all about the money...tis all those at the top table of government care about...also, it's easy to make these decisions when it's another part of the country, as if they'd agree to it if it was in their back yard...

It needs leaving in the ground, and that should be the end of it.

Not going to happen, too many economies rely on O&G production.

as if they'd agree to it if it was in their back yard...

Define back yard, as there is stuff down south, you can see the maps here:
[url= https://www.gov.uk/guidance/oil-and-gas-onshore-maps-and-gis-shapefiles ]O&G Onshore UK Maps[/url]

Absolutely no coincidence that the company that will be doing the fracking, Cuadrilla, is chaired by Lord John Browne, Baron Browne of Madingley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Browne,_Baron_Browne_of_Madingley

No, I'm sure no influence or pressure was exerted there. None at all

The process of fracking I have no real issue with, as a geologist I view it as being relatively safe.

However, it's 2016. We absolutely, definitely should not be burning any more things to produce energy. Why the money for fracking can't be invested in renewable or nuclear is beyond me.

This. However, on the basis that we can't agree to proceed with clean renewables either, it was an inevitable development.

I think the jury remains out about whether the risks are as real as pressure groups would have us believe. I'm a scientist and i tend to believe other scientists on these matters, but as per the synthetic chemicals discussion, they can't be trusted can they.

Absolutely. With the Paris agreement it's acknowledged that we must not burn the fossil resources we know about, let alone whatever else we find. So why are we even still looking?

The shale gas we now import from America goes to INEOS at Grangemouth to be turned into plastic. It supports jobs in Glasgow, Runcorn* and Teesside.

There's a lot more to petrochemicals than just keeping the STW servers running and it's readers Audi's on the road.

*see, local jobs for the North West as a result of Fracking

as if they'd agree to it if it was in their back yard...

As a southerner who bought a house last year the survey came back with a note that the house is in an area which has been identified as suitable for Fracking. I'm still not worried.

I have to say, the (small) fracking activity in the South Downs, has Brighton not far from it. So, well I see your argument, and it's bugger all to do with "Norveners" v "Suvverners" and highly probably do to the geological location of a large Gas field...hence the choice to dig/bore in Lancashire... sorry, but if you are going to keep it all to yourselves then what do you expect.
😕

Personally, as an environmentalist, I fundamentally disagree with the principal of making it more and more difficult to wean ourselves away from fossil fuels, regardless of any spurious statistics regarding job creation or financial reasons. The creation of an industry to exploit our shale gas resource does exactly that.

Its also a very short term 'solution'.

We have had our fun with fossil fuels, and we are in a very fortunate position as a country where we could set the world an example of a successful country moving towards a reduced dependence on fossil fuels.

But no, back to the good old days we go.

We have had our fun with fossil fuels, and we are in a very fortunate position as a country where we could set the world an example of a successful country moving towards a reduced dependence on fossil fuels.

This, clearly it would be much more efficient (in the longer term) to develop the tech to use renewable energy combined with batteries to smooth out the peaks and troughs. We are now so much closer to having this than before, just look at the stuff coming from Tesla etc. Once we nail that driving fully electric cars etc. also starts to become possible for the majority.

If I was dictator I'd also be telling them scientists to stop dicking about with Fusion and get it working already 😀

Happens all the time with Planning applications in Cambridge. City Plan has brown field sites marked for local housing, Big Co applies for student flats as they're very profitable and gets turned down by LA. Government over rule and we get all our brown fields sites become upmarket student flats and no new houses...

I'm so upset by this, it's equally likely to hit us down here in the leafy suburbs as well.

With all the trends to renewables, all the options we should be pursuing and once again the damn government gives in too lobbyists, it's another example of us having a totally toothless Green opposition.

They've also cancelled that tidal project in Wales I heard last week when I was over there, we live on an Island surrounded by tons of water that moves up and down twice a day as regular as clockwork yet still we haven't harnessed the huge untapped energy resource that represents.

And I agree wholeheartedly with the BigEaredBiker, all the battery technology that is out there we should be on it like a car bonnet.

frack on for me.. we live in lankyshire and if the area can make a few bob take a few off the dole and keep some home fires burning.. thats ok by me.. i d prefer that than a corbyn utopia which wants to rebuild the steel and coal industry and renationlise the choo choos. ( will bernard cribbins be back boasting of been hornby size again at christmas)

I really can't get angry about this.

Yes, there is an argument against burning more fossil fuels, but as a method of extracting gas from the ground, 'fracking' is established and is not the scary thing portrayed by some.

The above-ground impact will be minimal, as shown on the earlier photos. Fylde will not become covered in nodding donkeys and smelling of crude oil.

The road traffic impact will probably be relatively insignificant too, compared with that of Blackpool.

90% of earthquakes in fracking areas triggered by fracking...

[url= http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/more-than-90-of-larger-earthquakes-in-western-canada-triggered-by-fracking-1.3510812 ]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/more-than-90-of-larger-earthquakes-in-western-canada-triggered-by-fracking-1.3510812[/url]

Nope, nothing to worry about here.

Coal mining caused masses more earthquakes than fracking does, if that worries you.

But, this-

We have had our fun with fossil fuels, and we are in a very fortunate position as a country where we could set the world an example of a successful country moving towards a reduced dependence on fossil fuels.

is right. Encouraging fracking is like reintroducing oil burning steam trains. It's harmful out of date Victorian technology with a slightly modern twist.

There's a lot of public protest about energy cost and fracking.

But:

- most people can't be bothered to spend 2 mins switching energy suppliers (AIRI 70% of homes have never switched)
- a lot of people can't be bothered to take any steps at all to save energy by turning things off
- so we need to keep producing elec and gas even though a lot of this is wasted
- and...most car journeys are for distances less than 3 miles. Presumably this will be even worse with plug-in "clean" electric vehicles.

Perhaps the counter to the "fracking outrage" is along of the lines of "change your behaviour and reduce energy use first before you complain about where the energy comes from".

As one of the above posts references, we are dependent on imported energy and shale gas for chemical / energy intensive industries but this wouldn't be such a big need if we weren't wasting so much energy / raw materials on an individual basis. Our behaviour as individuals needs to change.

[b]"...but less than 1% of fracking directly responsible for earthquakes"[/b]

Tremors are of varying severity too, folks.

wwaswas - Member
90% of earthquakes in fracking areas triggered by fracking...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/more-than-90-of-larger-earthquakes-in-western-canada-triggered-by-fracking-1.3510812

Nope, nothing to worry about here.

POSTED 5 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Ohhh come on, from the first line of that report [i][b]"But less than 1% of fracking activity directly responsible for earthquakes"[/b]
[/i]

39, out of 12,289 wells studied.

Whether you agree with fracking or not it's about time that the government took some tough decisions to get our economy, energy and infrastructure in shape. NIMBY's are often the result that nothing really happens in this country, wasting multi-millions of pounds on consultation after consultation, delay after delay, money that could otherwise have been put to good use to improve our country, with a net result that British infrastructure is now lagging far behind the best in the world.

Fingers crossed for the 3rd Heathrow runway - just get on with it and lets move this country forward. The money we save on not going through a 3rd or 4th round of consultations would probably be enough to pay for some world class hospitals or some leading conservation projects.

Coal mining caused masses more earthquakes than fracking does, if that worries you.

We have fracking sites in the South Downs where I live.

So it's not just confined to the Northern Counties.

Top Tip.
USE LESS FUNKING ENERGY!

is right. Encouraging fracking is like reintroducing oil burning steam trains. It's harmful out of date Victorian technology with a slightly modern twist.

captainsasquatch - Member

Top Tip.
USE LESS FUNKING ENERGY!

Yes, but wind turbines may well power your PC. But you'd struggle to find a way to make a keyboard out of them. Ethane on the other hand, if only there was some way to address the undersupply of ethane for our hydrocrackers to make ethylene from..............

With all the trends to renewables, all the options we should be pursuing and once again the damn government gives in too lobbyists, it's another example of us having a totally toothless Green opposition.

They've also cancelled that tidal project in Wales I heard last week when I was over there, we live on an Island surrounded by tons of water that moves up and down twice a day as regular as clockwork yet still we haven't harnessed the huge untapped energy resource that represents.

And I agree wholeheartedly with the BigEaredBiker, all the battery technology that is out there we should be on it like a car bonnet.

If you can make renewables make rich people richer, then it will take off. O&G is a proven established no brainer, basically liquid money, and hence a very powerful industry which has governments all over the world by the short and curlies.

Once low carbon can do the same thing, it will take off.

Once low carbon can do the same thing, it will take off.

Because nuclear power stations are built by small co-operatives and wind farms are knitted from organic yogurt?

Although the guts of what your saying is true. Once other energy sources are cheap enough that their subsidised use is cheaper than oil which is heavily taxed. Then yes, it stands to reason it'll be favoured.

In the mean time, it's not just energy (I'm starting to feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall on that point).

They will dig the ground from under your house if they even suspected they could make something off it.

Im all for nuclear power stations. And of course renewables in the form of wind and tidal. I would think living on an island there would be plenty of each.
But they are reluctant and feel they must destroy the environment first before exploring all options,or in investing heavily in them.

Personally, I want to see Lancashire get hit by a Richter 9 earthquake so that I can watch all the Northern Brexiters crying on tv about their homes and their dead dogs. Bring on the fracking!

I'll then setup a kickstarter campaign to give money to the first upset European I see on tv, send it to a few political advisor mates to circulate on social media and then laugh my balls off.

Whether you agree with fracking or not it's about time that the government took some tough decisions to get our economy, energy and infrastructure in shape.

Absolutely - the government should be allowed to ignore the democratic will of the people and just do what it and its expert advisors think is the right thing for the country's future and economy.

[img] [/img]

😉

A lot of the big companies involved in wind are involved with O&G also. Not many other companies can raise the cash and execute big complex projects.

Yes, but wind turbines may well power your PC. But you'd struggle to find a way to make a keyboard out of them. Ethane on the other hand, if only there was some way to address the undersupply of ethane for our hydrocrackers to make ethylene from..............

You keep saying this like it's OK for us to do it to make plastic. But we shouldn't be making anywhere near as much plastic as we do, and what we do should be mostly recycled. So much plastic goes into stuff we don't need in packaging (and in other places where plastic doesn't need to be, as you'll know since you use laminate sails on your boat) that encouraging a new source of plastic production shouldn't be encouraged either.

I'm aware of the impact on jobs but the environment is much more important than a few people being in work and a tiny amount of people making money. But sadly that'll never get you elected so that shift in thinking won't happen until it's too late.

Opting out of the EU has basically removed any possible delays,right to object and reasonable regulation so we can now get on with ****ing everyone up the ass... dry 😉

yay for Brexit!

^^^ That's what makes it so gloriously fun - I just want to see the country burn and people coming to the realisation that we're not in this together - everyman for himself in Mays world.

Whether you agree with fracking or not it's about time that the government took some tough decisions to get our economy, energy and infrastructure in shape.

Pretty sure the local community, and I will be working within sight of the sites, really ought to have a say here and they said Frack off.

Its a difficult one in general but this is controversial locally and is not supported. This was always going to happen though as this govt values money over the environment and locally democracy but that is not really news is it

Whether you agree with fracking or not it's about time that the government took some tough decisions to get our economy, energy and infrastructure in shape.

I agree. Being strong with a message that the economic damage caused by Brexit will far outweigh any "gains" made by increased nazism towards immigrants would be a bold but also welcome move. It would allow strong investment in renewable and energy efficient technologies, and enable easy transfer of overseas expertise to assist with this.

NIMBY's are often the result that nothing really happens in this country, wasting multi-millions of pounds on consultation after consultation, delay after delay, money that could otherwise have been put to good use to improve our country, with a net result that British infrastructure is now lagging far behind the best in the world.

What an odd rationale. When the CEGB was around, it took strategic decisions about investments in power generation despite short-term costs for long term stability. Since privatisation, with the exception of far too many gas-fired power stations that have greatly reduced the resilience of our energy infrastructure while maximising short-term profits for their owners, there's been bugger all investment in the long term future of energy generation in the UK. The problems we now face in terms of generation can be easily attributed by the failure of the market to provide a cohesive long term plan in lieu of short term shareholder profits.

Fingers crossed for the 3rd Heathrow runway - just get on with it and lets move this country forward. The money we save on not going through a 3rd or 4th round of consultations would probably be enough to pay for some world class hospitals or some leading conservation projects.

You'd need fewer hospitals or conservation projects if rampant development regardless of the environmental or health costs didn't happen.

Because nuclear power stations are built by small co-operatives and wind farms are knitted from organic yogurt?

I think you underestimate the sheer financial scale of the O&G industry, wind farms and even nuclear are a fart in a gale in comparison. And as you mention, even though EDF will (possibly) make a huge amount of money selling us our electricity, it's only because we will be subsidising it massively because the production cost is so high - oil and gas is positively throwing itself/money out the ground at you by comparison.

A lot of the big companies involved in wind are involved with O&G also

I can't think of many, Repsol recently pulled out and sold UK wind interests to China.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37565927

More on topic insanity from the tories

A genuine question and not intended to troll-

If renewable energy is as effective as has been suggested earlier in this thread, why aren't the Government's mates making a fortune out of that instead of O&G?

Dong Energy, Engie and Statoil all have O&G and Wind interests.

All those worried about fracking in the north west are you fussed about Morecombe Bay or Liverpool Bay offshore developments or you happy to ignore them?

If renewable energy is as effective as has been suggested earlier in this thread, why aren't the Government's mates making a fortune out of that instead of O&G?

With the exception of onshore wind, renewable energy is largely a developing technology. This means organisations are reluctant to invest heavily in it as they can't guarantee making money for their shareholders out of it. To get around this, government tools such as subsidies are used to incentivise investment, for example guaranteeing a price electricity can be sold at for ten years with the taxpayer/electricity user bridging the gap (ie subsidising) between market price and this guaranteed price.

There have been many problems largely involving lack of government commitment, eg incentive schemes are dropped and funding for technology development has been dropped. This creates further uncertainty in private investment. In Scotland we were leading the world in wave power development but scotgov pulled funding after a cabinet reshuffle who had different ideas from Mr Salmond. Same thing with onshore wind - UK was at forefront of development many decades ago, it was poo pooed and dropped and now is a multi billion dollar industry elsewhere in the world.

O&G has been around for many decades and is a thoroughly established industry - our entire society is now built around it for our energy and derived products such as plastics and drugs, there will be a demand for it until the end of the human race. Because it is so established, it's very quick to make money out of it, if you are in a position to get the stuff out the ground. The length of time it's been around means people who have vested interest in it and have made a lot of money out of it are high up in the circles of power in every country, as money and power go hand in hand.

I recommend this series if you didn't see it first time round http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gzf5l/episodes/guide

northern powerhouse

Dong Energy, Engie and Statoil all have O&G and Wind interests.

All those worried about fracking in the north west are you fussed about Morecombe Bay or Liverpool Bay offshore developments or you happy to ignore them?

That's three and Statoil are pretty niche.

How could offshore developments affect people living onshore like fracking will? I do worry about the mermen though.

All those worried about fracking in the north west are you fussed about Morecombe Bay or Liverpool Bay offshore developments or you happy to ignore them?

captainsasquatch - Member
Coal mining caused masses more earthquakes than fracking does, if that worries you.

Is that because there are more coal mines?
We have fracking sites in the South Downs where I live.
So it's not just confined to the Northern Counties.

That's alright then, if two wrongs make a right.
Top Tip.
USE LESS FUNKING ENERGY!

No, certainly not.

The UK needs more energy, post Brexit we will have to get it from somewhere cheaper than the inflated prices that will occur post the Chop.

I, I am not alone in this feeling. I will be long dead and gone soon enough, I have no kids but I have nephews which complicates the issue of feeling awful for them. But they'll grow into a period of energy coming from somewhere in the U.K. They'll be great full that it is cheap and the side effects/consequences of fracking in the U.K. is a small price to pay for being able to turn the central heating on whenever they feel like it.

I will not use less energy before I pop my clogs, I expect I'll start to use more.

They'll be great full that it is cheap and the side effects/consequences of fracking in the U.K. is a small price to pay for being able to turn the central heating on whenever they feel like it.

The side effect of fracking is continued climate change, mass extinction and sea level rise, which will become pretty devastating in their lifetime.

But, well, if that's a small price to pay crack on 🙄

I will not use less energy before I pop my clogs, I expect I'll start to use more.

Nah, too late for me and my generation, Baby boomers just want to turn the heating on, have hot water and go to Waitrose,

Don't confuse me with all your Ecology and Climate Change ideals, our priorities are way different to yours.

To counter the fracking, I think more nuclear energy is required.