[Closed] Forum House of Commons vote on air strikes in Syria - which way will you vote?

Had a nice email from my labour MP explaining why he will be voting in favour. (I'd asked him to vote against). I wonder how many had emailed or written expressing a view, and if the overwhelming opinion was against if he would have taken a different action?

@kona I am telling what I heard during the live coverage of which I watched about 2.5 hours, if you don't think it's true listen yourself. I'm happy to call them Daesh. @JY the BBC won't use the term Daesh as they know it's a derogatory name and they think that to use the term would impact their impartiality 😯

@gear, it's highly likely in circumstances like this that the vast majority of messages MPs will get will be against military action. That doesn't mean they reflect the majority view, many people in favour won't email their MP to say so.

@soma - they don't fly low like that to drop guided weapons although of course they may be sharpening up their general flying skills ahead of a deployment. Sky was reporting we'd deploy more Tornados and some Typhoons . As a note the Tornado was said to be a better aircraft for such operations despite its age.

Ooooooooo - can we start talking about missile systems again......

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[i]@soma - they don't fly low like that to drop guided weapons although of course they may be sharpening up their general flying skills ahead of a deployment. Sky was reporting we'd deploy more Tornados and some Typhoons . As a note the Tornado was said to be a better aircraft for such operations despite its age. [/i]

Flying low over here too, can't be for practicing in the Middle East as it's pi55ing down 🙂

Former soldier John Baron MP defends opposing airstrikes & says: "I've been called a pacifist and worse." Tory shouts: "What's worse?"

Tories really are vermin.

Tories really are vermin.

You realise John Baron is a tory too, right? I think you mean "some MPs really are vermin".

I'm happy to call them Daesh.

I am telling what I heard during the live coverage of which I watched about 2.5 hours, if you don't think it's true listen yourself.

Klunk - Member

Former soldier John Baron MP defends opposing airstrikes & says: "I've been called a pacifist and worse." Tory shouts: "What's worse?"

Tories really are vermin.

There's a school of thought that pacifism, when taken to it's logical conclusion is a recipe for genocide. IE, if the whole of the western Europe were committed pacifists ISIS could kill us all with sharpened sticks. See Gandhi's comments that the Jews should walk willingly to the gas chambers.

Professional career politicians, particularly right wing ones will no doubt be aware of this viewpoint.

Wonder what odds I can get at the bookies to us being back here again within a year discussing bombing Libya?

There's a school of thought that pacifism, when taken to it's logical conclusion is a recipe for genocide.

How does that work then?

See my stealth edit Binners.

You realise John Baron is a tory too, right?

what he's not defected to UKIP yet, I'm surprised/

So are we going to start calling other countries the So Called People's Republic of China, the Alleged Islamic Republic of Iran, the Purportedly United Kingdom?

It's daft. Kind of thing you'd expect from a seven year old.
Why not just call them smell faces or something?
And while we're into correct labelling - Britain isn't great and it's certainly not united.

There's a school of thought that pacifism, when taken to it's logical conclusion is a recipe for genocide.

[quote=jimjam spake unto the masses, saying]
There's a school of thought that pacifism, when taken to it's logical conclusion is a recipe for genocide.

I'm not sure that qualifies as "thought".

The problem with pacifism, is that everyone has to subscribe to it for it to work. Which they don't. Which leaves a thorny issue. Still no to airstrikes on Syria though.

I'm not sure that qualifies as "thought".

Nor a "logical conclusion".

The problem with [b]absolute[/b] pacifism, is that everyone has to subscribe to it for it to work [b]absolutely[/b].

Eventually it will lead to foot soldiers fighting IS.

Bombing will kill innocent men, women and children and won't solve the issue.

Also very interesting that the term Daesh is now being used by everyone, except Corbyn. Daesh being the derogatory term most in the Middle East use to describe IS

*apologies to any non-English folk.

How many SAS/SBS/Special forces personnel does the british army have?

I think it's only 240 ish (could be wrong), not a great deal but i guess they are quite effective in targeting.

SAS/SBS* 400-500 in each

* Part of Navy

@jimjam - the recent proposal in the spending statement is that we should have more

@kona strange bedfellows Jezza and I indeed, I won't let it happen again 😳

It's great isn't it how Cameron's statement has been twisted, he said those voting no would walking through the lobby with those who do with terrorist sympathisers. He didn't call them sympathisers themselves. He also said this to a Tory meeting. Toys out of the pram indignation from some of those voting no. Cameron IMO knew he'd win the vote easily and that the terrorist sympathisers remark wouldn't cost him anything.

I personally do not think there are 75,000 moderate troops in Syria, the key word is moderate. They are not moderate by our liberal western standards in any way shape or form in my view.

Sky News calling the vote very clearly yes, 120+ (?) majority with 50 Labour MPs voting Yes.

I personally do not think there are 75,000 moderate troops in Syria, the key word is moderate. They are not moderate by our liberal western standards in any way shape or form in my view.

So you think that if ISIS do withdraw from territory they currently hold the vacuum will be filled by another 75,000 extremists.

What an excellent plan - what could possibly go wrong? No wonder you are fully backing Cameron.

Cameron IMO knew he'd win the vote easily and that the terrorist sympathisers remark wouldn't cost him anything.

Apart from a poll in the Times suggests that many of the public would fit his description, along with a YouGov poll suggesting that 31% don't support bombing, on;y 49% support the bombing down from 59% a week ago.

embarrassing thing to say for a sitting PM.

It's great isn't it how Cameron's statement has been twisted, he said those voting no would walking through the lobby with those who do with terrorist sympathisers.

Toys out of the pram indignation from some of those voting no.

Cameron IMO knew he'd win the vote easily and that the terrorist sympathisers remark wouldn't cost him anything.

*walk through the lobbies with Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers"

Hard to tell who he was calling names but he certainly seems to be implying that some of those who oppose the war are terrorist sympathisers and that is, and no one has argued otherwise not even Davem Just BS

It's great isn't it how Cameron's statement has been twisted, he said those voting no would walking through the lobby with those who do with terrorist sympathisers. He didn't call them sympathisers themselves.

The only person who is trying to twist things is you jambalaya.

According to the Daily Telegraph this was Camerons precise words :

[i]"You don't want to walk through the lobbies with Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers."[/i]

It is crystal clear that he accusing Jeremy Corbyn and the MPs who support him of being terrorist sympathisers. It is also crystal clear that that sort of highly offensive slur is unbefitting from a Prime Minister and that he should apologise.

Of course he won't which is excellent news for Corbyn - it shines a light on the real Cameron.

Gandhi's comments that the Jews should walk willingly to the gas chambers

Aren't some of the Labour front bench on the record sypathysing with terrorists?

What about SOE? Don't the people voting no sympathise with SOE's efforts in WW2?

What about SOE? Don't the people voting no sympathise with SOE's efforts in WW2?

Only the terrorist sympathisers.

konabunny - Member

Gandhi's comments that the Jews should walk willingly to the gas chambers

He didn't say that.

I wasn't trying to start a debate about the philosophical concepts of pacifism, rather to simply say that some people take a very dim view of it as an outlook/standpoint.

If Gandhi didn't say that I'd like to know what he did say though as it's something I've heard attributed to him many times.

binners - Member

Ooooooooo - can we start talking about missile systems again......

You mean S-300 ... aaaaahhhh ...

Think mine is bigger than yours.

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If Gandhi didn't say that I'd like to know what he did say though as it's something I've heard attributed to him many times

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

If Gandhi didn't say that I'd like to know what he did say though

Well what he did say, iirc, was that he thought that Western civilisation would be "a good idea".
Cheeky git.

I'd like to know what he did say though

[i]Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs... It would have aroused the world and the people of Germany... As it is they succumbed anyway in their millions."[/i]

And largely it's misquoted as Gandhi still believed that pacifism was powerful, as demonstrating that rather than succumbing to punishment because it's their right. You do it willing because it is wrong, and should be seen as wrong.

Hitler killed five million Jews.

I think Super Great Dear Leader with the little Red Book set the record for culling human population.

Estimated at between 40 million to 70 million ...

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html ]The Independent[/url]

Of course he won't which is excellent news for Corbyn - it shines a light on the real Cameron.

a) Cameron won't be fighting the 2020 election as leader and b) Labour are after SNP/Green/Non voters, not Tories and centrists. So landing points on Tories doesn't help him much.

Our pig-****ing PM says something pretty unbecoming for which he should apologise (but we know he doesn't do apologies) and that becomes Corbyn trying to land punches on the Tories. 😆

Gandhi's comments that the Jews should walk willingly to the gas chambers

As usual, context matters - my understanding is that he said that, as they were going to be killed anyway, they should commit suicide as that would better draw the world's attention to their plight

🙁

deadlydarcy - Member

Our pig-**** PM says something pretty unbecoming for which he should apologise (but we know he doesn't do apologies) and that becomes Corbyn trying to land punches on the Tories.

You mean [b]'terrorist sympathisers'[/b]?

Is being called [b]'terrorist sympathisers'[/b] that crucial in this debate?

Why do you think he used the term [b]'terrorist sympathisers'[/b]?

Is he point scoring when he referred to those opposing him in this debate as [b]'terrorist sympathisers'[/b]?

Does that mean the current debate, due to being called [b]'terrorist sympathisers' [/b], mean the whole debate now revolved around or being hijacked by the definition of [b]'terrorist sympathisers' [/b]?
😯

Refreshing to see Saudi Arabia being associated with ISIS multiple times on ch4 news tonight.

"Of course he won't which is excellent news for Corbyn - it shines a light on the real Cameron."

.......... So landing points on Tories doesn't help him much.

Well that's a novel idea.......the suggestion that a Tory leader making a prat of himself doesn't help the Labour Party.

Refreshing indeed jimjam...as long as it's just a bit of noise and doesn't interfere with...y'know...business.

deadlydarcy - Member
Refreshing indeed jimjam...as long as it's just a bit of noise and doesn't interfere with...y'know...business.

Hence, you cannot be a politician or diplomat. 🙄

Well that's a novel idea.......the suggestion that a Tory leader making a prat of himself doesn't help the Labour Party.

It doesn't, or not directly, they're each after completely different voters. Corbyn is after SNP/Green/Non-voters. Tories are after Tories, centrists and floating voters.