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Has anyone else noticed that Haas are 4th on the constructor’s? It will be crazy if they can keep that up
Yes, with Red Bull only 6th, struggling to stay ahead of Racing Bulls. No wonder Verstappen is ready to quit.
I fell also watching the highlights just after Kimi took the lead at the safety car pit stops.
Who won? Did i miss anything that makes it worth rewinding and watching to the end?
No but I also slept through large sections of the highlights.
Who won? Did i miss anything that makes it worth rewinding and watching to the end?
Nice battle between Russell and Leclerc in the last few laps, similar to Leclerc and Hamilton last week.
I’m really enjoying this season so far, the racing has been incredible and it will be really interesting to see how the teams engineer their way out of the challenges of this new formula
It's not often I agree with Max and Alonso, but I really don't like this new formula. For me, F1 should be about driving cars at the absolute limit....the limit being grip and driver's bravery. Having to slow to charge a battery is, IMHO, bollocks. And qualifying is just terrible.
I'm at the point where I'm probably going to stop watching (I only have highlights now) , after 40 something years.
I know overtaking has been "artificial" for years with KERS and DRS....but this is a whole new level of artificial.
From Lando:
Deployment isn’t something the drivers are in control of, leading to bizarre situations such as Lando Norris revealing that he even overtook Lewis Hamilton without planning to – the deployment just happened to kick in to enable it.
“Honestly, some of the racing… like, I didn’t even want to overtake Lewis,” reigning World Champion Lando Norris said after the race.
“It’s just about the battery deploys, and I don’t want it to deploy, but I can’t control it. So I overtake him, and then I have no battery, so he just flies past. This is not racing, this is yo-yoing."
Nice battle between Russell and Leclerc in the last few laps, similar to Leclerc and Hamilton last week.
I'm surprised nobody complained about Russell weaving approaching turn 1 when under pressure from Leclerc. I thought only one change of line was permitted.
It's really difficult with F1. We want close racing, absolute power, all the greatest points, driver making the difference, car making the difference, but we've got to the point where science kicks in. There is no way that one car can be behind another car with the aero effect and now to a realistic overtaking opportunity. DRS was a really blunt instrument that gave you very take opportunities.
This new electrical deployment seems to get around the problem that we now have overtaking, and the skill comes in handy with the energy deployment. I think that if we give a few more races, it might actually work out to be quite entertaining. At the moment, it's a bit of a lottery, as Lando said.
Does anyone think they can come up with any rules or regs that would actually give interesting racing, good overtaking, some kind of realistic price cap, because otherwise it just gets unaffordable and entertaining for both racers and audience?
If you're going to say it's all about technical ability, you might as well make it remote control cars. If you're going to say it's all about the driver, you might as well stick up an MX5. If you're gonna say it's all about power and innovation, make it Can-Am, which personally I would love but is probably unrealistic right now. What do you guys want to make racing what you want it to be so there is no whinging and it is just brilliant for everyone?
Deployment isn’t something the drivers are in control of,
That's one of the fundamental issues with quali at the moment - there's basically a map of when the PU harvests and deploys and if you have to lift for a small correction in the wrong place it screws up the algorithm and there's no way back. IMO that needs to be a bit more flexible. I think the teams will gradually get on top of the energy starved nature of these PUs and the super clipping will be less of an issue but that might take longer than many people want (one Dutch person in particular).
If they could make the balance between electrical power and IC power balanced and sufficient to allow drivers to go as fast as physics and bottle allows them, that would be an improvement. I think they're in danger of losing long time fans (like me) in favour of a new generation of fans who would never sit and watch a whole race, let alone quali....as for FP1 etc! But if the audience numbers are up, I guess no one cares. I can see why Ben Sulayem panicked last year when he realized what was coming.
Interesting (and blunt) opinion piece on PlanetF1.... https://www.planetf1.com/news/oliver-bearman-crash-f1-2026-backlash-driver-criticism
It's F1 for the Playstation generation. IMO motorsport should be about drivers having all power available at all times and doing with it what they want, not some algorithm deciding it. That Bearman incident highlights one potential issue.
Mind you I'm an old fart who started watching motorsport when Raymond Baxter was commentating.
That Bearman incident highlights one potential issue.
To my eye, the main thing it highlighted was Colapinto’s questionable judgement.
That place has never been a viable passing spot; the only way anyone could pass there is with a significant power differential, so both drivers must have known the score. But it looked like Colapinto tried a futile defence anyway, right at the point where Bearman was committed.
Which isn’t to say that there aren’t going to be dangerous problems caused by either sudden harvesting or software bugs causing sudden drops in deployment, so it remains important to consider those. But it didn’t seem to me that this was such an issue. Yes, there was clearly a power differential, but the critical factor seemed to be Colapinto’s steering input rather than a sudden loss of acceleration.
Telemetry could prove me totally wrong of course, but that’s how it looked.
To my eye, the main thing it highlighted was Colapinto’s questionable judgement.
I’d be amazed if anyone had factored in that the closing speed between two cars on a “flat out” section would be as much as the 92km/h it was there. Even if they knew it was possible, nobody in the race has experienced that sort of thing in F1 before. The best placed drivers are likely those who have done multi-class (eg endurance) racing, but at least there the difference in pace is consistent, whereas this is all over the place
the closing speed … 92km/h
Not sure which (if either) is correct but the figure I saw (on The Race) was 35km/h.
Yes, I saw 35 km/h somewhere too.
But it looked like Colapinto tried a futile defence anyway, right at the point where Bearman was committed.
Yes, that's how it looked to me too. Which isn't to say there isn't a problem, but this did look to me like Colapinto drifted onto Bearman's line and Bearman lost control trying to avoid him. Reminds me of the Group A touring cars in the late 80s, where' you'd have a Toyota Corolla on the same track as a Sierra Cosworth, with some pretty frightening closing speeds on the straights.
There’s an image floating around with snaps from both onboard cameras. That’s where the higher figure comes from. I wouldn’t have expected him to be caught out to the same degree if the difference was 20mph?
I think Colapinto's defending was fine, it was just normal line choice with a bit of drift across the road to give the driver behind something to think about, nothing wrong with it at all.
The FIA and Liberty have got a month now to sort something out, i think most (sensible) folks are OK with the hybrid idea, but it's clear the battery charging/ deployment isnt working as well as they'd hoped, I have no idea what the solution is though
Something I didn't realise about these regs was that the harvesting is all automatic. The drivers don't know when it's going to start clipping or super clipping, it just does it based on where it thinks is optimal on the lap. The driver can override it if they want but the default mode is automatic.
Andrew Shovlin said George lost out due to a software bug with how the buttons are handled:
92km/h
Don't have a link to hand but posted up that there was a telemetry problem throughout the race on Bearman's car, apparently the 40km/h is correct (no criticism of you intended, i saw the same high figure reported)
Hope Bearman is alright, that was a big shunt.
Something I didn't realise about these regs was that the harvesting is all automatic. The drivers don't know when it's going to start clipping or super clipping, it just does it based on where it thinks is optimal on the lap. The driver can override it if they want but the default mode is automatic.
Norris reported that he didn’t actually want to overtake Hamilton at one point, but the car essentially made him do it (obviously he could’ve lifted but we know what he means)
I don't think they necessarily need to throw the whole thing in the bin. The aero reg are clearly allowing the cars to follow closer and lighter cars is a good improvement too.
But it definitely needs tweaking. Do something with the size of the energy store and how its recharged so the cars are less energy starved. Tweak the ICE portion to generate a bit more power and decrease the rate of energy deployment. If the cars could harvest at 350kW but only deploy at 250kW that would mean more deployment time throughout a lap.
Right now the cars make about 1,000hp, - 550 from the ICW and 450 from the battery. Tweak it to 650* and 350, allow deployment for more of the lap.
*Yes it's more than a tweak to get the ICE engines to make 100hp more without changing the regs but it's certainly physically achievable, tweaking output from the electrical energy is an easy change though.
It's F1 for the Playstation generation
The PlayStation was released in 1995, so the PlayStation generation is anyone under the age of what, 50? How long has it been since 'energy management' hasn't been a part of F1?
Right now the cars make about 1,000hp, - 550 from the ICW and 450 from the battery. Tweak it to 650* and 350, allow deployment for more of the lap.
It'd be simpler to leave the ICE as is and reduce the maximum deployment so the current batteries last longer and there's less demand to harvest at unnatural points on the track. That would be adjustable on a track by track basis so you end up with less powerful PUs at energy poor tracks and more powerful at tracks with bigger braking zones and shorter straights. But nobody wants an F1 car that is slower than it could be so the drivers would whinge about only having 850hp at Silverstone or whatever.
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Something I didn't realise about these regs was that the harvesting is all automatic. The drivers don't know when it's going to start clipping or super clipping, it just does it based on where it thinks is optimal on the lap. The driver can override it if they want but the default mode is automatic.
Isn’t that something they would learn during practice? I would expect drivers at this level to know within a few practice laps when the car is harvesting or deploying. I imagine it’s something teams discuss prior to arriving at the track.
Right now the cars make about 1,000hp, - 550 from the ICW and 450 from the battery. Tweak it to 650* and 350, allow deployment for more of the lap.
The issue is that they have a fuel flow limit, plus limit on total fuel mass. The engines will have been optimized around those. To increase the peak ICE power by 20%, you would need 20% more fuel flow, plus 20% higher boost, so a larger turbo and probably revised cylinder heads and manifolds, plus tweaks to the fuel, plus a 20% larger fuel tank. Then you would also need to reoptimize the aero for the different power levels. In other words, pretty much a new car.
The energy starvation ultimately comes from the fuel flow restriction and limited mass of fuel, the electrical system allows that energy to be stored and deployed where it's most beneficial. If you want to avoid energy starvation, you need to burn more fuel.
Right now the cars make about 1,000hp, - 550 from the ICW and 450 from the battery. Tweak it to 650* and 350, allow deployment for more of the lap.It'd be simpler to leave the ICE as is and reduce the maximum deployment so the current batteries last longer and there's less demand to harvest at unnatural points on the track. That would be adjustable on a track by track basis so you end up with less powerful PUs at energy poor tracks and more powerful at tracks with bigger braking zones and shorter straights. But nobody wants an F1 car that is slower than it could be so the drivers would whinge about only having 850hp at Silverstone or whatever.
The issue with this is your basically saying design and build a whole new engine from scratch. The preseason fuss about how Mercedes were playing with compression ratios shows how optimised to the regulations engines already are.
Something I didn't realise about these regs was that the harvesting is all automatic. The drivers don't know when it's going to start clipping or super clipping, it just does it based on where it thinks is optimal on the lap. The driver can override it if they want but the default mode is automatic.
Isn’t that something they would learn during practice? I would expect drivers at this level to know within a few practice laps when the car is harvesting or deploying. I imagine it’s something teams discuss prior to arriving at the track.
I think yeah, if they're doing a completely perfect lap, but in reality during the race they're also dealing with other drivers, snaps of oversteer, going round debris, etc which is changing the deployment. Sometimes they're arriving at corners much faster/slower than expected.
The issue with this is your basically saying design and build a whole new engine from scratch.
No that's entirely the opposite of what I'm saying. Leave the ICE alone, leave the battery storage alone. At the moment the amount of energy that can be harvested varies on a circuit by circuit basis but the rate of deployment and recovery is a fixed amount. Make those fixed amounts variable on a circuit by circuit basis (but the same for all teams) and you could potentially reduce things like super clipping at the expense of total PU output capacity. (IANAF1PUE)
I think yeah, if they're doing a completely perfect lap, but in reality during the race they're also dealing with other drivers, snaps of oversteer, going round debris, etc which is changing the deployment. Sometimes they're arriving at corners much faster/slower than expected.
Best example so far is Leclerc’s qualifying being ruined by one correction. Car then got confused and a didn’t deploy/charge as it should and affected the lap
I still sort of think just specify limits for a few things…
- fuel volume
- battery capacity
- fuel flow rate
- battery discharge rate
- harvesting rate when off-brake
…and let them have at it.
Toto certainly knows how to strike a low blow. From the BBC as to whether Horner could/should return to F1:
"I said to Fred Vasseur that it needs the good, the bad, and the ugly. And it is now only the good and the ugly left. The bad is gone."
Poor Fred!
How about the driver being in control of recovery/deployment?
On another note - I wonder how long they are going to give it before they think about making contingency plans for the last two Grand Prix. As things stand I can't see anyone wanting to join the F1 circus at either venue - so either we lose another two races or they start planning a contingency now for alternates. Not that there are going to be too many options. Although I can still remember when Japan and Australia were the last two races of the season!
I wonder how long they are going to give it before they think about making contingency plans for the last two Grand Prix.
I imagine they are already thinking about it. COTA would be an obvious place to hold something following the Las Vegas race.
On another note - I wonder how long they are going to give it before they think about making contingency plans for the last two Grand Prix.
Add Baku to that list as well!
Toto certainly knows how to strike a low blow. From the BBC as to whether Horner could/should return to F1:
"I said to Fred Vasseur that it needs the good, the bad, and the ugly. And it is now only the good and the ugly left. The bad is gone."
Poor Fred!
I saw that! I thought they were friends!!
I think the US races should be off the list.
I saw a post about Horner joining Aston.. which made me pause.
I still sort of think just specify limits for a few things…
- fuel volume
- battery capacity
- fuel flow rate
- battery discharge rate
- harvesting rate when off-brake
…and let them have at it.
I'd add active aero to that list - mechanical specs as they are now but usage unrestricted around a lap, controlled by driver. So if you have a super effective diffuser, you can run in low-drag mode more, improving speed and efficiency. But it reduces outwash/wake so makes following easier?
...will they be replacing some floodlights for sun-bed lights for the night races!?
I think the FIA have pandered to the manufacturers too much and ended up with a crap compromise to lure in new teams but keep the current ones happy. Its resulted in the cars able to deploy much more energy than they can harvest to leading to this silly power train behaviour.
The manufacturers are doing what they are supposed to do ie find the most optimal lap time within the rules ... the solution to that is the very complicated throttle and recovery maps that try and detect where the driver is on the track based on sensor and pedal inputs. I don't blame them.
FIA really should have made sure deployment < harvesting to prevent the cars requiring clipping mode and mandated a fixed map (or numerous preset fixed maps) for deployment and harvesting to make. Even if that meant the cars were overall less powerful.
They shouldn't have got rid of the MGU-H on the turbos, I think thats a great technology that's improved the engine response and is now filtering into consumer cars. I don't care if Audi didn't want to develop a MGU-H, F1 is huge now with loads of brands wanting to get involved, I'm sure Audi would've just sucked it up and joined anyway.
I am genuinely struggling to understand what all the flap is all about. Is this a social media thing? Do we all have to be hysterical about everything all the time now?
I get it, the drivers aren’t at the limit for some the corners, which makes for a very different qualifying, it would be better if they were and I’m sure a solution for this will be found. In the mean time, Max threatening to leave, long time fans saying they’ll stop watching and all the other histrionics is starting to look a bit pathetic tbh
I am genuinely struggling to understand what all the flap is all about. Is this a social media thing? Do we all have to be hysterical about everything all the time now?
Yes, pretty much. I think the SM thing is mix of v toxic fans (I'm sure its coincidence that many of them seem to identify as Max fans) and the 'wannabe influencer' crowd competing among themselves trying to be the most outraged and [therefore] promoted.