The attempted tape removal has happened on multiple occasions and became an established little battleground on the grid between the two teams’ mechanics.
It is understood that some of the tactics McLaren employed to make it harder for Red Bull to remove the tape included cutting it into long vertical strips so it could not be removed in one go and leaving a mechanic on the grid in front of the tape until very late - with Red Bull doing the same to try to remove it anyway.
At one stage McLaren also put two layers of tape on the wall, in case the top one did get quickly removed, with the second layer reading ‘better luck next time’.
—The Race
I guess no-one at McLaren thought to say “shall we just do what Hamilton does and stick it on the car?”.
The producers of Drive To Survive will probably dedicated a whole episode to this type of shenanigans (and another episode or 2 to "Papaya Rules")... 🤣
Verstappen quickest in Mexico, Norris fourth, Piastri further back.
Verstappen quickest in Mexico, Norris fourth, Piastri further back.
Major question is long-run pace.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/we-were-nowhere-verstappens-bleak-mexico-outlook/
Great job by Lando
About time Lando had some luck and had a good performance while others aren’t at their best. Long overdue unlike the other championship contenders.
The start could crucial with the two Ferraris able to have some sort of coordinated plan to jump Lando on the drag to the first corner. Max and Oscar will have front row seats to watch that as long as they don't get punted off by an over ambitious mid fielder sending it into Turn 1....
Lewis and George are in the best positions for the start of this race with that huge drag to the first corner.
Pretty good race this! Loads happening- can’t believe max wasn’t penalised for lap 1 though, some very odd stewarding!
What a crock of shit - stewards screw the race once again.
Baffling decisions all race and an unecessary VSC at the end.
Why is everyone booing Lando?
Dunno - he’s just not liked. My daughter can’t be doing with him (but she is an Oscar fan! 😀).
What a crock of shit - stewards screw the race once again.
Baffling decisions all race and an unecessary VSC at the end.
Always very easy to criticise, but not many people are aware of the exact situation which triggered the VSC. I assume that Sainz stopped near an escape point (ie at the side of the track, not behind a barrier) and that there is a certain distance away or something that triggers a VSC or a SC.
Not many people watching and shouting at their tellies will have any responsibility if it goes wrong. So I don’t judge them to be best placed to have anything to moan about. While I’d say the risk there was low, it wasn’t zero.
But safety isn’t often an issue for fans wanting an exciting close finish, is it…
It’s another example of when Slow Zones would have been far better than a full course VSC
“Dunno - he’s just not liked. My daughter can’t be doing with him (but she is an Oscar fan! 😀).”
the fickle world of F1! It wasn’t that long ago that he was one of the most popular drivers
They need to do something about this turn 1 stuff, that was just straight up cheating. I don't blame the drivers, they're just playing to the rules as enforced. But that was a really obvious example of how unfair it is.
Well, certainly an eventful weekend. Qualifying was great. Plenty going on in the race but in some ways it was a bit of an exhibition of the things that aren’t quite right in F1 these days: questionable stewarding, with half the drivers trying to lean hard on the rules and hoping the decisions go their way, a frankly bizarre VSC, and then booing at the end (apparently fuelled by Mexican journalists stirring the pot in response to Monza—but as I recall it’s hardly the first time the Mexican crowd has come across as a bit of a dick). Was surprised that Leclerc was allowed to stay in front of Hamilton on the first lap, and that Verstappen didn’t get a penalty for turn 1. The first sector of that circuit always seems to invite absolute chaos from the drivers, but it seems the stewards often end up chaotic there as well.
It’s another example of when Slow Zones would have been far better than a full course VSC
I’m not sure why the yellow flag at that corner wasn’t considered sufficient.
They thought the car might've been on fire, plus F1 drivers cant be trusted to slow properly even under double-waved yellows. Slow zones cuts through that (in the same way as VSC) and is proven to work on very busy tracks, mid-battle, in the rain, at night and so on. Would likely have been genuinely fun to watch the two battles race to the line, behave briefly, then gun it again for a couple of laps
Dunno why people are bemused Max didn’t get a penalty at the first corner. He gave back the place he gained. Russell’s moaning on the radio was ludicrous, Max had clearly passed him before the corner, how many places is he supposed to relinquish?
Sorry, if that’s referring to my comment (which I now see is massively unclear) then I meant his collision with Hamilton, not the lap 1 escape. Verstappen was fine on lap 1; Leclerc was debatable. Agree, not sure what Russell was expecting there.
Well, here’s the explanation for the no-penalty for the Verstappen-Hamilton contact.
As Max alluded to after the race, he’s just exploiting the rules (the mirror/front wheel positioning in this case) which let you come flying up the inside with no possibility of both cars making it round the corner without a collision, and the driver on the outside ending up being investigated for not leaving room. A problematic loophole if you ask me: it seems that the thick end of the wedge is that on a street circuit with no run-off that could be used as a legitimate way to do a Schumacher* and take a rival out to maintain a points advantage.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/why-max-verstappen-wasnt-penalised-for-hamilton-clash/
(* ok, Schumacher was on the outside in both 96 and 97, but the aim was the same)
I’m not sure why the yellow flag at that corner wasn’t considered sufficient.
There was an early incident when marshalls ran onto a live track to collect debris, and nearly got collected by Lawson. Not sure if Sainz's car actually needed to be moved by the marshalls but these days it's normal to set VSC if marshalls are on track, so the race director probably decided that there was a chance the marshalls would do something daft again and acted to protect them while the situation was resolved. Yes it ruined Max's chances but the race director should be more worried about the safety of all personnel involved than who might finish where. I expect that if the marshalls hadn't been reckless earlier in the race they might have covered it with double waved yellows.
Now wondering whether it's worth booking a last minute trip to AD. IiRC the last time I went there the biggest thing to be decided was 4th in the constructors but it's looking like it might be a bit more significant this year.
I confess I haven’t seen the detail of what was going on around Sainz’s car; it sounded from the highlights that it was just parked behind a barrier and safe being left until the race finished, but if that wasn’t the case then fair enough.
I've got no problem with the Lewis/Max elbows out stuff, its just hard racing - Lewis and Nico used to do it all the time. It can't always be 'after you - no after you I insist' politeness!
Lewis's penalty was deserved but 10 sec was harsh and far too much for any advantage gained. 5 seconds has been the norm for non serious incidents.
First corner clashes, well they happen. But not penalising those who go grass-cutting and get a big advantage sends out the wrong message. And I don't think Ferrari were fair to Lewis at the start either and should have asked Charles to give back the place.
Not sure if Sainz's car actually needed to be moved by the marshalls but these days it's normal to set VSC if marshalls are on track, so the race director probably decided that there was a chance the marshalls would do something daft again and acted to protect them while the situation was resolved.
as mentioned above, the VSC was thrown as the car wasn't fully behind the wall and the thought it might have been on fire, meaning that marshalls having had to jump into action for that: FIA can't fully explain Mexico F1 marshal near-miss - The Race
“he’s just exploiting the rules (the mirror/front wheel positioning in this case) which let you come flying up the inside with no possibility of both cars making it round the corner without a collision, and the driver on the outside ending up being investigated for not leaving room.”
Sounds like that’s how Sainz got a penalty for being shoved off the track by Verstappen, I can’t remember which race that was
“and then booing at the end (apparently fuelled by Mexican journalists stirring the pot in response to Monza—but as I recall it’s hardly the first time the Mexican crowd has come across as a bit of a dick).”
I thought it might something like this, I’m guessing there’s been a fair bit of social media rage bait engagement farming going on as well
I've got no problem with the Lewis/Max elbows out stuff, its just hard racing
I agree (so did Hamilton). It’s just hard to keep up with the small print in the sporting regs: I’d thought it would have fallen into “causing a collision” but it seems not.
Lewis's penalty was deserved but 10 sec was harsh and far too much for any advantage gained.
Agree again. It seemed a fairly straightforward call and really the stewards ought to have the ability to buzz straight through to the team and say “give back the place, take a 5 second penalty, or if you do neither we’ll deal with it after the race and if the decision stands it’ll be a 10 second penalty”.
I thought the 10 second penalty was deliberately harsh to dissuade the drivers from even thinking about trying it on. It means that anyone gets over-punished. I think the 5 seconds for lesser incidents are when they classify it as a different type of incident.
On one hand they are completely correct - was it 4 times he spun at Silverstone? On the other, none of those mistakes broke the rules. Still an odd case, but I can see some money heading his way at the end of it
I think Massa is being poorly advised, I mean its should be fairly obvious that the FIA aren't going to overturn a 17 year old result and that Hamilton was also affected by the same incident.
I still think we should give Massa 2008 and Hamilton 2021.
Trouble is then Hill should have 94, Prost and Senna should swap 89 and 90 and where do you stop?
Was there cheating involved in 82 and 86? Both a wee bit before my time but I don't remember hearing about it.
Better chance of overturning a WDC than fixing FIA corruption, and oh how nice to see the Eccleston name involved here too: FIA sued by presidential candidate over undemocratic election
I think Massa is being poorly advised, I mean its should be fairly obvious that the FIA aren't going to overturn a 17 year old result and that Hamilton was also affected by the same incident.
as I understand it, he's not trying to get the result overturned, he's just trying to get some money
Was there cheating involved in 82 and 86?
Nah but both are injustices - pironi was cruising to the title when he had a terrible crash and missed most of the second half of the season, and Rosberg just about managed to win the WDC. In 86 if Mansell had failed to control the car after the tyre exploded the race would most likely have been red flagged, half points awarded and Mansell WDC so by saving the car he lost the title.
Edit - iirc in 82 Enzo Ferrari gave Pironi a trophy inscribed "to the real world champion".
as I understand it, he's not trying to get the result overturned, he's just trying to get some money
It's got to be about the title - win this, then go for that - there's no way Massa is ferreting down the back of the sofa for his last Real.
Massa’s case hangs on the notion that the FIA would have nullified everyone’s results from the race. But was that necessarily what would have happened? I don’t know what the rule book said at the time, but in theory there are multiple options:
1. Delete everyone’s points for Singapore: Massa wins by 5 points.
2. Delete the points for the Renault cars, for either the race or the full season (which is consistent with the response to Schumacher’s deliberate crash in 97): Hamilton wins by 1 point.
3. As above but reclassify Singapore: Hamilton wins by 3 points.
4. As above but reclassify every race for the season: Hamilton wins by 3 points, if my quick skim through the 2008 results is accurate (Massa would gain 1 point in Italy, Hamilton would gain 1 in each of Italy, Hungary and Brazil).
as I understand it, he's not trying to get the result overturned, he's just trying to get some money
It's got to be about the title - win this, then go for that - there's no way Massa is ferreting down the back of the sofa for his last Real.
yeah you're right....just done more reading and he does want the title
"“This is the most important thing for me, this is our target, this is my target that I will fight until the end to be recognised as World Champion for 2008."
I thought I read something last week that said he just wants a sackful of cash
Whatever....i don't think he stands a chance
I don’t know what the rule book said at the time, but in theory there are multiple options:
None of the the options take into account that if Singapore was cancelled at the time the teams would have taken a different approach to the remaining races that season.
Can England go back and insist the 1986 World Cup be replayed? We coulda been winners again! 🙂
The Mexican federation blames Lawson for the near miss with marshals during the race:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N5YuBNuXdWg
And the original document:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rudGdTej7lXlh1ZpJ_9EGQGKnxvA7Tar
Was there cheating involved in 82 and 86?Nah but both are injustices - pironi was cruising to the title when he had a terrible crash and missed most of the second half of the season, and Rosberg just about managed to win the WDC. In 86 if Mansell had failed to control the car after the tyre exploded the race would most likely have been red flagged, half points awarded and Mansell WDC so by saving the car he lost the title.
Edit - iirc in 82 Enzo Ferrari gave Pironi a trophy inscribed "to the real world champion".
To be fair, Pironi was circulating at racing speed on a soaking wet track with zero visibility in a meaningless practice session - he didn't need to be out there, but he chose to be and paid the price, that's not an injustice.
Mansell didn't really "save" the car, he drove it off the track and killed the engine. Prost knew the tyres were an issue - if he stops, Williams should have paid attention. Mansell only needed third, they didn't have to take a single risk to bring him home.
