Just not one of the true greats imo.
Any particular reasons, or just the usual contrarism? As it's Silverstone this weekend, it's probs apposite to reflect on the fact that Hamilton has won more times at Silverstone alone (9), than either Leclerc (8), Norris (7) or Piastri (7) have in total in their careers to date...
Max slower in FP1 than both Hadjar and Lawson - maybe they should stick him in the junior team to help his title chances 🙂
Don't forget CH4 have live coverage for Silverstone this weekend, including FP1 that started ~25mins ago.
Didn't know that, thanks for the heads-up! 🙂
Max slower in FP1 than both Hadjar and Lawson - maybe they should stick him in the junior team to help his title chances 🙂
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Think Max wants to fall behind the top 4 so he can get out of his contract
Reminds me of that thought experiment - a cat will always land on it's feet. Toast will always land butter side down. What would happen if you tied a slice of toast butter side up to a cat's back?
Lewis always pulls something special out of the bag at Silverstone. Ferrari can always be relied upon to **** up. Which one will prevail?
Just not one of the true greats imo.
Any particular reasons, or just the usual contrarism?
No 'contrarianism' at all. Just my own honest opinion. Hamilton is a great driver, no question. His achievements cannot be diminished in any way. But the fact is that whilst he is great in a great car, he's good in a good car, but not so good in a poor car. Whereas Senna, Alonso and Verstappen are great in a great car, great in a good car, and still great in a poor car. That, for me, is the difference. I place Hamilton well in the league of great drivers, but for me he's in the group with Prost, Piquet, Mansell, Haakinen and on reflection, possibly Vettel. Below them are drivers like Hill, Button, Villeneuve, both Rosbergs and Raikkonen. Drivers who were all very good, but did need that bit of luck to win. Then you have your good Number 2s; Bottas, Massa, Webber, Coulthard and Barrichello. As for the current crop; LeClerc does look very good indeed, but has yet to prove himself great in spite of being consistently faster than a seven-time WC. Norris is very fast on his day, but flawed, and is being quietly outdone by his much less experienced teammate. Piastri has shown signs of being a great driver. Russell is another Jensen Button imo, but could prove to be WDC standard. Antonelli has much to learn, but is veery quick. Hadjar though is the standout so far for me; consistently quick in an average car, has gone very much under the radar, but it would be interesting to see him in a fast car. I think there'a a handful of current drivers who you could put in a McLaren and they'd be as quick as Norris and Piastri. Verstappen, though, would be quicker still.
Hamilton is a great driver, no question. His achievements cannot be diminished in any way. But...
The use of "but" negates what came before. You are saying his achievements are diminished in your eyes.
No; I'm just not elevating him to a status others might. Your selective editing removes the context of what I was actually saying.
"But the fact is that whilst he is great in a great car, he's good in a good car, but not so good in a poor car. Whereas Senna, Alonso and Verstappen are great in a great car, great in a good car, and still great in a poor car. That, for me, is the difference."
Well that was entertaining and unexpected. Looks like all the other contenders made some sort of small error on their last laps and max was the only one that got a clean lap in. Long run pace didn't look so good for the RB vs McLaren and Ferrari but he'll be quicker down the straights so DRS won't necessarily help that much. Maybe we'll get to see Hamilton having another go at Max into Copse.
That was one heck of a qualifier!
Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!
Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!
And they've not even got the race director on the payroll anymore!
Great lap by Max in a car that looked a right handful even for him, Yuki had no chance!
Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!
TBF it's not that Red Bull snatch it out of the bag. It's Max.
Well Max and the team back at the factory who analyse everything from Friday, run different scenarios in the sim overnight then feed back to the team on Saturday so they can give Max a slightly better car to drive the wheels off.
Lewis always pulls something special out of the bag at Silverstone. Ferrari can always be relied upon to **** up. Which one will prevail?
When they only fuelled him for one lap at the end of Q1 I was more than a little concerned that you’d have your answer 😳 Bonkers decision.
Popcorn at the ready for tomorrow.
Red Bull, more than any team I know, has terrible practice sessions and then manages produce a pole. I would love to know why!
Mercedes used to do that too back when they were dominant. They'd look pretty average on Friday just gathering data, then they'd run simulations overnight and Hamilton would nail pole on Saturday.
Mark Hughes has an article about the Red Bull. Part of it was that they got lucky with the wind direction, but Max just did a fantastic job.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hughes-why-verstappen-british-gp-qualifyig-gamble-paid-off/
It was an inspired setup and drive for pole. But the forecast for today has the wind moving to a northwesterly, which is a crosswind, maybe even slight tailwind, across Maggots/Becketts and Stowe. So it may turn out to compromise his race: I’d expect him to suffer worse deg than the others at the very least. Should be interesting; personally I think four cars are in with a shout of the win and if the weather forecast is true to form I don’t think Max is one of them.
Thrilled for Hulkenberg to finally get a podium. Shaping up to be a great battle between the McLarens.
Someone said this earlier “Max Verstappen is quite possibly the greatest F1 driver ever” didn’t they 😉
Harsh penalty on Pastry though
Thought it was ungracious of Piastri not to congratulate Norris in the interview.
Also, was he really asking the team to swap positions to correct his error? (even if the penalty was v harsh)
Enjoyed that! 🙂
Someone said this earlier “Max Verstappen is quite possibly the greatest F1 driver ever” didn’t they 😉
Harsh penalty on Pastry though
Yeah that was me. And I stand by it, because he quite possibly is. Definitely the best F1 driver right now, by some margin. As I also said; if he were in a McLaren, the WDC would already be over. Just facts.
Good race that. The weather mixed things up nicely, wasn't at all boring! Red Bull gambled on it being dry; the low downforce set up really helped in dry conditions, as we saw at the start, as Piastri couldn't quite close up on Max. But then as soon as it got slippery, the Red Bull was useless. That Max managed to drag it to 5th after his spin, when poor Yuki came dead last, shows just what a truly great driver he is. It's an absolute dog of a car, and how Max is still 3rd in the drivers standings is just incredible really.
TBF it's not that Red Bull snatch it out of the bag. It's Max.
Exactly. I think even the most partisan antiMaxxers have to accept he is a simply brilliant driver.
Hamilton had a good race for once; Ferrari only managed to wreck Charles' race today. Lando was gifted the win by his team mate; I think that's a 14-point swing in Lando's favour today. Imo Piastri is the better racing driver , but he is still relatively young and needs to iron out a few creases in his game. Looked like a cunning move to slow right down, the kind of thing Senna or Schumacher were notorious for, but it backfired this time. The penalty was reasonable; he can't have any complaints. I think if Lando doesn't nail the WDC this year, he may well never get another chance. If Piastri beats him, his chances of securing good drives in the future will be effectively over. Piastri however seems to have a true racer's instinct, and no fear. That's the difference between them. It's going to be interesting to see if a proper rivalry develops, Senna V Prost style. Personally I think Norris may well bottle it though.
That was a fantastic race. Really enjoyed it. Made up for Hulkenburg, too!
Gutted hulkenburg only got a lego trophy after all his years!
Great race, made a nice change to be able to watch it live not being behind a paywall. Love it when the weather mixes things up! Would've liked Hamilton to podium but had to be happy for Hulk/Sauber. McLarens are on another level at the moment 😊
the Red Bull was useless.
Because they'd reduced the size of the rear wing to almost Monza spec. which worked well enough during qualis, but the cool and wet weather on race day meant that it couldn't heat it's rear tyres up. I think Max probably ended up where he would've placed anyway regardless of his spin
Piastri asking to have his place back was proper cheeky though
Good race overall thanks to a bit of good ole 'British Summer weather', although I don't think Colapinto is going to last much longer (if at all), retiring the car after no laps. I think all the rookies bar Bearman had a terrible race, although Antonelli can at least claim he wasn't to blame for his retirement.
I think everyone was pleased for Hulkenberg though.
Piastri asking to have his place back was proper cheeky though
It just came across as sly and devious, not attributes I want in my hero's...
I really wanted a Hamilton podium but I'm over the moon for Hulk. A podium from 19th on the grid. Superb drive.
Love the vid of his daughter watching at home
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XA7fvoCVcEk?si=MOrbEINXQfBKnp8z
It's an absolute dog of a car
Jees, this again. It's such an exaggeration. It's not "an absolute dog of a car", it's won two races, I think three podiums and four poles. In fact in single lap pace it is the clear second fastest car on the grid.
They've developed the car down a blind alley due to Max's driving style which has meant it has a very narrow operating window, and nobody else can drive it.
Again I refer the poster to Albon's explanation of why this is from 5 years ago: Verstappen continually gives feedback that he wants the car "sharper, sharper, sharper". They make the car sharper, he goes faster. Repeat and compound this feedback for 5 years, and they've now made the car too sharp and too flighty for anybody else to drive. In some conditions, too much for Max even, but when it works, it is quick.
I think all the rookies bar Bearman had a terrible race
Is that the Bearman who stupidly bagged himself a 10 place grid drop and then drove into his teammate sending them both into a spin?
They've developed the car down a blind alley due to Max's driving style which has meant it has a very narrow operating window, and nobody else can drive it.
Again I refer the poster to Albon's explanation of why this is from 5 years ago: Verstappen continually gives feedback that he wants the car "sharper, sharper, sharper".
This is why I question people who say "Max would be beating Norris and Piastri if he was in the McLaren". This year more than any other is showing Max's raw speed and talent but he wants the car to behave a certain way to unleash that potential. If he jumped into the current McLaren I'd expect he'd find it doesn't have those characteristics so it wouldn't suit his natural driving style. He'd undoubtedly still be quick but he'd take some time to adapt to the the car (or vice versa) to be at his best.
Anyone noticed that Lindblad was just over a tenth closer to Verstappen in FP1 than Tsunoda was to him in FP2?
.
I suspect the person most hoping that Verstappen keeps his nose clean for the rest of season and doesn't get a ban is Hadjar
The penalty was reasonable; he can't have any complaints.
Not sure what you were watching? It was ridiculous and he was very careful not to blow up in the interviews. He slowed down in a straight line and did it once. The wording in the regs is "erratic". That was a slapped wrist error, not a race ruining one. Not only did it ruin Piasti's race, it ruined the spectacle for everyone. OK Lando won but the interference was the only way he was going to win that race. Fix?
Did the stewards not notice Max's illegal overtake? These guys are supposed to have some of the fastest reactions in the world and still Verstappen overtook Piastri. At the best they should have both been penalised.
The phrase "if it wasn't Max" comes to mind
Piastri screwed up, he has only himself to blame.
It's an absolute dog of a car
Jees, this again. It's such an exaggeration. It's not "an absolute dog of a car", it's won two races, I think three podiums and four poles. In fact in single lap pace it is the clear second fastest car on the grid.
They've developed the car down a blind alley due to Max's driving style which has meant it has a very narrow operating window, and nobody else can drive it.
Again I refer the poster to Albon's explanation of why this is from 5 years ago: Verstappen continually gives feedback that he wants the car "sharper, sharper, sharper". They make the car sharper, he goes faster. Repeat and compound this feedback for 5 years, and they've now made the car too sharp and too flighty for anybody else to drive. In some conditions, too much for Max even, but when it works, it is quick.
It is clearly an absolute dog of a car. And as has been explained by many actual experts in F1 design, it's really not that the car has only been designed around Max' driving style. The homologation rules for one, make that a red herring. The reality is that it suits just a handful of tracks, and needs Max' talent to make it competitive. Max is simply head and shoulders above the rest in terms of driving talent and ability. No other driver on the grid could have achieved wins in the Red Bull this season.
The penalty was reasonable; he can't have any complaints.
Not sure what you were watching?
The race where Piastri was found to have 'driven erratically' behind the safety car, and penalised for doing so.
It was ridiculous and he was very careful not to blow up in the interviews. He slowed down in a straight line and did it once. The wording in the regs is "erratic". That was a slapped wrist error, not a race ruining one. Not only did it ruin Piasti's race, it ruined the spectacle for everyone. OK Lando won but the interference was the only way he was going to win that race. Fix?
He fell foul of the rules and was penalised. Nothing more, nothing less. Suggesting anything else is into paranoid conspiracy theory territory.
Did the stewards not notice Max's illegal overtake?
No because there wasn't one.
The phrase "if it wasn't Max" comes to mind
Not to me it doesn't.
Max is simply head and shoulders above the rest in terms of driving talent and ability. No other driver on the grid could have achieved wins in the Red Bull this season.
You have no way of knowing what other drivers could have done in that car. I'm pretty sure that Alonso or Leclerc would do vastly better than Tsunoda. I don't think anyone seriously doubts that Max is extremely gifted, but the only competitive teammate he's had was Ricciardo. Hamilton's had Alonso, Button, Rosberg, Russell, and Leclerc as teammates, they're all top-class drivers. Alonso has had Hamilton, Button, and Raikkonen. Leclerc has had Vettel and Hamilton, plus Sainz. We know Max is good but we can't know how good unless he accepts a competitive teammate.
Not sure what you were watching? It was ridiculous and he was very careful not to blow up in the interviews. He slowed down in a straight line and did it once. The wording in the regs is "erratic". That was a slapped wrist error, not a race ruining one.
Piastri slowed abruptly from around 130mph to 30mph using twice the braking force that Russell used in Canada, in the middle of a straight, in the wet, with everyone else suffering limited visibility from spray, and he did so completely unnecessarily given that there were four more corners and one decent straight remaining in the lap.
It was a pretty excessive manoeuvre for the dry, but it was—or at least seems from my particular armchair—a stupid thing to do in wet conditions where no-one on track would have had decent visibility of how bunched the pack were. Absolutely deserved a penalty. Whether it warranted 10s rather than 5s is more debatable.
It is clearly an absolute dog of a car. And as has been explained by many actual experts in F1 design, it's really not that the car has only been designed around Max' driving style. The homologation rules for one, make that a red herring. The reality is that it suits just a handful of tracks, and needs Max' talent to make it competitive. Max is simply head and shoulders above the rest in terms of driving talent and ability. No other driver on the grid could have achieved wins in the Red Bull this season.
The simple fact is being on pole for 1/3 of the races = not an "absolute dog".
Nobody is "head and shoulders" above anybody else amongst the current top drivers, there are mere fractions of a percent between them. If you think otherwise you are deluded.
Just to remind you, Ricciardo was more than a match for Max until they started giving Danny the Red Bull #2 driver treatment (Baku 2018, specifically).
On a lighter note, I love this:
Nobody is "head and shoulders" above anybody else amongst the current top drivers, there are mere fractions of a percent between them. If you think otherwise you are deluded.
However, I can't help notice that whenever people involved professionally in the sport- other drivers, team managers, journos etc- are asked who is the fastest driver on the grid, they all seem to say 'Max'. This doesn't stop various randoms on the internet trying to find ways to suggest he isn't all that good. I don't particularly take to him as a person, but I would say its pretty clear how he is regarded by those who should know.
I can't help notice that whenever people involved professionally in the sport- other drivers, team managers, journos etc- are asked who is the fastest driver on the grid, they all seem to say 'Max'. This doesn't stop various randoms on the internet trying to find ways to suggest he isn't all that good.
I don't think anyone on here is saying he's not good, it's just that we are in a golden age of competitive drivers and it's not clear that Max is "head and shoulders" better than Leclec, Piastri, Norris, Hamilton, Alonso, Russell, etc. Unless you put them all in the same car and do multiple races on different circuits in different weather conditions, you can't know who is really better. On top of that, Hamilton and Alonso are near the end of their careers - Max beating them now (when they are in inferior cars) doesn't mean that he would have beaten them when they were in their prime. Max is an exceptional driver, but we don't know how he would have fared against Alonso or Schumacher or Hamilton in the same car when they were at their peaks.
@Imnotverygood - sorry if maybe you are typing in a second language, but it's all in the nuance.
The vernacular meaning of 'head and shoulder above" doesn't just mean they are the best. It's means they are so much better than anybody else to the extent that comparison to anyone else is both irrelevant and laughable.
It is perfectly possible to be considered the best at a thing universally by everyone that matters and simultaneously NOT be "head and shoulders better".
Most people understand this, but as I say apologies if you are typing in a second language and the obvious is not that obvious to you.
