When do we fund our about the other possible penalties - Lando leading off on another parade lap against the lights and the Mercs having tyre pressures changed on the grid?
The penalties have been given - €5000 fines all round.
TBH it looked like the RB was just much more planted than anyone else which gave MV and SP a lot more confidence to hit the brakes later which gave them a massive advantage.
In those conditions a planted car would have made everyone look pretty good.
[See also the Alpines]
Max didn't have to act like a dick because he had such grip, but in the dry when the other cars are closer/better he has to revert to type.
Anyway, on the aborted start, didn't everybody leave the line early in the end though... Including MV?
If so how can they only [potentially] penalise 4 or 5 cars and not the rest?
It was said that drivers need to make the call in that weather but Lando was asking the team too much and trying to palm the decision off to them rather than stomping his authority when they were asking him for his opinion. Showed a lack of experience from him and the team.
Pitting was the safe strategy. Red Bull took a gamble on staying out that paid off. When you're behind, you're better to gamble. When you're ahead, better to play it safe. Whoever gets it right looks like a genius, whoever gets it wrong looks like an idiot.
sharkbait
If so how can they only [potentially] penalise 4 or 5 cars and not the rest?
They said that Russell and Norris went (committing the offence) and Tsu etc just followed Russell & Norris, therefore are fine.
Makes no sense but being the FIA, makes perfect sense.
Listening to the Chequered Flag podcast this morning, Jolyon Palmer was pretty critical of Norris/McLaren for not knowing the rules, and in his time at Renault they were tested on the rules and and regulations.
What's the point of the 'wet' tyre? George (and others) were saying that the conditions were too wet to race in then he pits and they put him on new inters. I get that they are racers and that they always want to be on the fastest tyre but if those wern't the right conditions for the full wets then they would never use the wets in a race. Seems like the operational window of the inters is too broad.
The problem with the wets is that while they work they are too slow so nobody wants to run them.
Exactly, so what's the point of carting them around the world?
oh its ok, they just recycle tyres that don't get used...
Lando was asking the team too much and trying to palm the decision off to them rather than stomping his authority when they were asking him for his opinion. Showed a lack of experience from him and the team.
Well, their experience includes Sochi 21, so…
Anyway, Lando was asking to box in order to get past Russell in the first stint, and the pit wall closed that down.
Let’s face it, on days like that, everyone’s crystal ball is pretty much just full of spray.
The race did seem like it should re-open questions around wets and red flags, though. There comes a level of rainfall where it starts to be a bit daft having everyone skating around just waiting for someone to drop it in a big fashion, just to get a free pit stop to take on a slightly less worn version of a tyre that’s only being used because no-one wants to be first onto the one that’s appropriate for the conditions.
Wasn't Perez going 5secs quicker than everyone else when he initially switched to wets, according to commentators?
Bez
Lando was asking the team too much and trying to palm the decision off to them rather than stomping his authority when they were asking him for his opinion. Showed a lack of experience from him and the team.
Well, their experience includes Sochi 21, so…Anyway, Lando was asking to box in order to get past Russell in the first stint, and the pit wall closed that down.
Let’s face it, on days like that, everyone’s crystal ball is pretty much just full of spray.
The race did seem like it should re-open questions around wets and red flags, though. There comes a level of rainfall where it starts to be a bit daft having everyone skating around just waiting for someone to drop it in a big fashion, just to get a free pit stop to take on a slightly less worn version of a tyre that’s only being used because no-one wants to be first onto the one that’s appropriate for the conditions.
Yeah Pirelli still need to sort out the full wet. I remember reading all the drivers moaning after Spa last year that it was X seconds a lap slower than the inter so it's worth the gamble to stay on the inter if you think you can keep it on the black stuff.
Pirelli were talking about bringing in an Inter+ with deeper tread and scrapping the full wet, on the basis that any time the full wet can be used there'd be too much spray - but I don't know if it went anywhere.
They said that Russell and Norris went (committing the offence) and Tsu etc just followed Russell & Norris, therefore are fine.
Haha.... What absolute bollocks! Nobody was forced to move so they should have all got fined.
Or they should have admitted there was no procedure in place for this eventuality, put one in place, done some education and given no-one a fine (cos £5k each is literally nothing).
Didn't Max even say over the radio that the second formation lap procedure had been broken, but then followed everyone else anyway?
[i]Didn’t Max even say over the radio that the second formation lap procedure had been broken, but then followed everyone else anyway?[/i]
Wasn't the reply - Yeah, procedure is being broken everywhere this weekend
I don't remember of they said 'so go' or not at the end of the message though
Those towards the back of the grid followed later - they sat there for a good while before moving off.
They still went without a green light though, so no different to the ones at the front.
Yeah Pirelli still need to sort out the full wet.
I believe LH interrupted some FIA person [making an announcement about the postponement of Saturdays qualifying] saying that if they gave them decent wet weather tyres they'd still be out there.
Seems ridiculous that F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing technology but they're deliberately given 'crap' tyres just to create a spectacle.
They're introducing guards to reduce spray on the 2026 cars, aren't they?
They still went without a green light though, so no different to the ones at the front.
There'd have been more chaos if they didn't move and those still sat on the grid would have used less fuel as well. Perhaps they were eventually told to move.
They’re introducing guards to reduce spray on the 2026 cars, aren’t they?
They've binned that idea for now. Couldn't make it work.
some FIA person
Stefano Domenicali. THE FIA Person. Whilst he was being interviewed by Sky. Was half joking I think.
The reason for not heating Wets is cost saving, as by the time they are out of the garage, and on track, the water has made them cold, so no point.
.
This isn't the angle they showed on TV. Makes it look even worse
They’re introducing guards to reduce spray on the 2026 cars, aren’t they?
They did a test to see if they would help, they didn't make enough of a difference to be worth it. Let's face it, the tyres have to squirt the water out so the guards don't change the volume of water that the tyres throw up, it just stops the tyres directly throwing it up into the air. That water is still picked up by the turbulent wake of the car and thrown higher into the air though. Without making the wake of the car much smaller, I don't think it would be possible to really reduce the spray enough to make it possible to race when the track is really wet. To make the wake smaller, you would need to fundamentally change the aerodynamics of the car. So, basically, don't expect a modern F1 car to ever be able to race on a properly wet track.
Have McLaren said anything about whether they'd still ask Piastri to make way for Norris should the opportunity arise in Vegas? After all there's still a mathematical change of Norris winning the WDC so I'd see it as a measure of their competitive spirit as to whether they are still chasing it. How Piastri reacts is anyone's guess though.
Based on the Sprint, I'm not expecting Oscar to help out anymore.
The chop at the start and holding onto the lead for so long doesnt seem like Oscar is going to just roll out of the way.
He was happy to give up the Sprint win as the drivers dont place any value on it.
Its all about setting the scene for '25 between the McLaren drivers.
Stella seems to be of the view that it’s still a possibility, so I’m sure that if they find themselves able to keep the WDC alive with the need for a car swap they’ll do it. But realistically I think the chances of that being the case in Vegas are slim, and beyond that negligible, so I think from this point on it most probably just plays out straight on track. Whatever happens, it won’t go down well if the thing that kills the WDC stone dead is Oscar refusing to toe the line.
Based on the Sprint, I’m not expecting Oscar to help out anymore.
The chop at the start and holding onto the lead for so long doesnt seem like Oscar is going to just roll out of the way.
He was happy to give up the Sprint win as the drivers dont place any value on it.
Its all about setting the scene for ’25 between the McLaren drivers.
I think Oscar did it right. He needs to show what he can do, which he did. It's advantageous for him to be as far ahead as possible if, for example, Norris has a problem, then a good lead for him over Verstappen still gets the team the win. Different if Norris is being hassled by Max but he wasn't. And then swap at the last minute, or if Max starts threatening Norris. But when the yellow flag came out I was thinking that's going to be a safety car and was silently shouting swap now! swap now! and they dithered then.
If they wanted Oscar to really help they should have swapped the lead early and then told him to go full Alonso.
Defend like a Lion, back everyone up in the middle section to allow Lando to drive away.
Leaving it to later in the race, just added risk, due to a red flag/safety car (which almost happened)
McLaren still arnt acting like a championship winning team.
They should have made a better call on Saturday around swapping drivers and they should have kept Lando out on track on Sunday to keep track position as the rain became heavier. They were too busy racing George and not Max.
andrewh
I think Oscar did it right. He needs to show what he can do, which he did.
Piastri didn't do a very good job holding up Max though, basically waved him straight through. Max couldn't afford a DNF so he could have been pretty robust with him.
Piastri was never in a position to really help Lando in the main race.
If Piastri has sufficient self-belief then he should expect to be in a position next year where he could need some help from his team mate. Doing whatever he can at this point in the season doesn't affect his WDC chances but might make all the difference in 2025.
the-muffin-manFull Member
Piastri was never in a position to really help Lando in the main race.
well as i mentioned above, he could have for example held him up by not doing this:
In other news: Bottas out at Audi, Bortoleto in according to AMuS
https://www.planetf1.com/news/valtteri-bottas-out-audi-f1-2025-driver-lineup-gabriel-bortoleto
If they're going for a rookie why pick him over Porchaire? Seems an odd choice. Nothing against Borteletto but I can't see one being loads better than the other so why not take your own reserve rather than someone else's?
well as i mentioned above, he could have for example held him up by not doing this:
Perhaps he felt he'd done his bit to help the day before! 🙂
Sauber/Audi’ statement is very odd:
”After open and constructive discussions with Valtteri Bottas and Zhou Guanyu, we mutually concluded that conditions to continue together could not be met so we agreed that it is time to part ways.”
I would have expected the messaging to be “we’re bringing in young talent alongside a seasoned campaigner”, but (although I’m sure it isn’t actually this) it reads a bit like “these guys wanted too much so we went with our next best option”.
In other news: Bottas out
Probably concentrating on his gravel career.
Just seen this posted on Twitter, don't think the first part went out on the broadcast - no wonder George was ticked off with the team!
https://twitter.com/sim3744/status/1853807472521171440
Probably concentrating on his gravel career.
On four wheels as well as two...
https://www.planetf1.com/news/valtteri-bottas-secret-rally-test-rumour-audi-f1-future
Surprised Audi have not asked Colapinto to drive for them, he's a rookie who has proven himself worthy of an F1 seat where as Bortoleto has no F1 experince apart from test sessions in the 2022 Mclaren
Rumours suggest Colapinto may be close to getting a seat elsewhere* (or maybe already has one) so he may have been unavailable anyway.
* Red Bull, Vcarb or Williams, depending on which rumour you prefer and which way the wind’s blowing in Milton Keynes today
Alpine officially announce Mercedes engine deal...
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/alpine-to-use-mercedes-f1-engines-from-2026/
How many teams is that now?
Mercedes, Williams, Aston, Alpine, and McLaren?
Aston are taking Honda engines in 2026.
