Formula 1 2024 - WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

Also, the DRS zone was reduced in length so that made it much harder to pass. I was expecting the McLarens and Verstappen to cruise to the front using DRS to get past the cars in front, just didn’t happen.

Yes, I was surprised to see so little action along the Kemmel; wasn’t until I read something this morning that I found out the DRS line had been moved. I approve; it was far too easy to pass there with DRS previously.

"Little to lose so worth the gamble and it kinda paid off." He / they lost 10 points, I'd say that is't 'little'. They also made themselves look pretty silly.

He / they lost 10 points

He lost 25, they lost 18… (while also handing additional points to all their rivals, so the net loss is greater still).

Sainz has signed a multi-year with Williams.

Well that's a bit of a snub for Audi - and it'll be interesting to see how he shapes up against Albon.

So Antonelli to Merc then?

Audi seem to be falling apart before they even get on the grid! Hulk may have been better staying at Haas.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/carlos-sainz-joins-williams-f1-2025

Well that’s a bit of a snub for Audi

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/breaking-carlos-sainz-signs-for-williams-as-spaniards-f1-future-is-confirmed.2wsM0VoH6D7H2akmtW9uXe

Yeah, seems more of a vote of non-confidence in Audi than anything. As they say, predictions are tough, especially about the future, but on current trends, a rebuilding independent team using customer Merc engines seems a better bet than a works team in disarray trying to build their own engines. With the budget cap, Audi can't spend more money on the car than Williams and the Merc engine is a safer bet than a new Audi engine.

So Antonelli to Merc then?

They're surely waiting to snap up Perez ?

(Insert emoji of choice here)

Not sure where i head this but Sainz is meant to have a clause in his contract with Williams that if Merc or Redbull come knocking before 2025 or before 2026 then he can just leave Williams and go drive for one of them with no ramifications

More here but you cant take what Planet F1 say as gospel

https://www.planetf1.com/news/carlos-sainz-williams-contract-length-break-clause

So Antonelli to Merc then?

Far from certain as Toto is determined to get Max's signature.

But a GR -v- KA combo would have shades of Alonso -v- Hamilton so could be fun! 🙂

@escrs

I'd read about that clause on Twitter too - can't reference as Twitter is useless for finding things shown in your feed.

Not sure where i head this but Sainz is meant to have a clause in his contract with Williams that if Merc or Redbull come knocking before 2025 or before 2026 then he can just leave Williams and go drive for one of them with no ramifications

Contracts always have escape clauses on both sides (Ricciardo's with McLaren may have been an exception.) Drivers will generally have an escape clause that they can join a team that finishes ahead in the championship, but it will always come down to money. Any contract can be escaped if you have enough money.

Yeah, seems more of a vote of non-confidence in Audi than anything.

Zero points on the board, slowest car on the grid, and a top-level reshuffle that looks second to only Alpine’s level of headless-chickening… I can’t imagine they’re inspiring anyone’s confidence right now. I imagine Hulk was offered a hefty salary and can’t lose: an outside chance of the stars aligning and ending up with a decent car, or a presumably big fat pension-swelling pay rise for business as usual in the lower midfield.

I think Williams was always the wise choice for Sainz if he couldn’t get a seat at Merc or Red Bull. In fact I’m not sure Red Bull actually belongs in that sentence.

Contracts always have escape clauses on both sides (Ricciardo’s with McLaren may have been an exception.) Drivers will generally have an escape clause that they can join a team that finishes ahead in the championship, but it will always come down to money. Any contract can be escaped if you have enough money.

Of course there are always get out clauses for both driver and team

This one from what ive read has no money/performance of driver clauses etc... involved, its simply if they come a knockin Sainz is gonna be a rockin (off to Merc/Redbull)

I'm  pleasantly surprised about the Sainz news. Nice signing for Williams that, James is doing a great job so far. Just have to hope the car is quick next year.

Interesting to see who is quicker between him and Albon. Always felt they were pretty similar.

tomhoward

Full Member

Over the whole race how much time would 1.5kg actually cost ?‍

At Spa, 2 to 3 tenths per lap. It’s a 44 lap race, Russel won by half a second.

Bernie Collins reckoned it was worth half a tenth per lap.

Assuming the worn tyres were the cause, he also didn't have a weight advantage for the whole race, just the latter stages.

I’m so happy for Williams!!!!!!! Really hope that two decent drivers can help the team develop.

Not sure where i head this

On the previous page? (Insert wink emoji)

Assuming the worn tyres were the cause, he also didn’t have a weight advantage for the whole race, just the latter stages.

Reading between the lines from things which Karun has said it could also have been his plank wear was too high as well. Many times during the race several cars were striking the ground hard through Eau Rouge/Raidilion and you could see remnants of the plank on the track.

I cant find if the data was released, so it might be that many cars failed on this. The FIA may have decided to turn a blind eye to that part of scrutineering, as it wouldnt have looked good for the sport if the whole top 10 had have been DSQ.

For the first few laps every car was leaving a big cloud of sawdust behind it on the climb up from Eau Rouge, so I’m guessing it was a fairly widespread issue if it was an issue for anyone.

.The FIA may have decided to turn a blind eye to that part of scrutineering, as it wouldnt have looked good for the sport if the whole top 10 had have been DSQ.

Stroll, Albon, Gasly podium!

Reminded me of this https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/36263/lucky-gambler-wins-big-after-betting-on-a-gasly-sainz-stroll-podium-at-f1-italian-grand-prix

Perez also retaining his seat for the rest of the season:
Red Bull decides not to drop Perez mid-season - The Race (the-race.com)

I'm sure the conclusion was Riciardo/Lawson wouldnt have been much of a upgrade

Those Polaroids Checo keeps in a safe back home must be dynamite!!! 🙂

Odd decision.  Tho according to Buxton, last year Perez scored 33% of Red Bull's points, this year it's 32%.

I’m sure the conclusion was Riciardo/Lawson wouldnt have been much of a upgrade

I think you're right. There's more street circuits coming up (Baku and Singapore), and Perez traditionally does well, but he's certainly costing the team points at each race currently. I guess they decided that changing would probably cost them even more.

Extremely harsh on George Russell, but rules are rules. The way Russell gambled on the hard tyres, then managed them so well, was Button-esque. One of Hamilton's weaknesses is that he's never been great on tyre management. Hamilton would not have won with such a strategy, so well done GR.

I think one clear fact merging now is that the Red Bull isn't as great as it was last year, and that currently it's perhaps the 3rd or even only 4th fastest car on the grid. Perez is pretty much on a level with most other drivers, truth be told, yet can't get the performance out of the car that Max can. Max is just on another level from everyone. I don't believe anyone, except perhaps Alonso in his prime, could get anything like the performance from the current Red Bull car that Max can. Must be very galling for Perez, but stick anyone else, say Norris, LeClerc or even Hamilton, in that car right now, and they'd be struggling. That's the difference.

Great to see the other teams catching up and overtaking Red Bull in terms of car performance though; second half of the season should be a lot of fun. That's not something that could be said of the last few years.

Sod the points, I'd be worried for the reputational damage it's doing.  Both, employing a very average driver and not having the balls to sack him.  Redbull don't need the point money and who would do worse? My guess is that it's a Max thing and they don't want to upset him with a quick no 2.

One of Hamilton’s weaknesses is that he’s never been great on tyre management.

Really? It’s one thing that’s frequently cited as one of his strengths—and there have been plenty of races where he’s outdone Russell and Bottas on that front. (No, don’t ask me to name them, though Silverstone this year is one example that’s recent enough for me to recall.)

but stick anyone else, say Norris, LeClerc or even Hamilton, in that car right now, and they’d be struggling. That’s the difference.

But that's also function of how Max both likes is car set up (very very pointy) and how the team has focussed development of the car to enable him to get the best from it.  Put Max in a car that's set up for Hamilton or Alonso and he'd struggle as much as they would in his car.

Hamilton would not have won with such a strategy, so well done GR.

Hamilton wanted that strategy before the race. The team said to both drive - 'no it's a two-stop'.

Hamilton still thought it was a two stop until it became clear it wasn't and GR had gone his own way - which the team failed to tell Hamilton about in the race or he'd have adjusted his pace accordingly. He was managing to Piastri/Leclerc. This is why he was so pissed-off after the race.

And to say he's no good with tyre management is laughable.

Really? It’s one thing that’s frequently cited as one of his strengths

He was always poorer on tyre management than other drivers. His driving style is hard on tyres. Jenson Button, on the other hand, was always very good on tyre management. Button outpointed Hamilton over three seasons during their time together at McLaren, let's not forget. Button was also phenomenal in varying conditions. Hamilton ultimately the better driver overall, but only by a sight margin.

But that’s also function of how Max both likes is car set up (very very pointy) and how the team has focussed development of the car to enable him to get the best from it.  Put Max in a car that’s set up for Hamilton or Alonso and he’d struggle as much as they would in his car.

Max has won a WC in an inferior car (2021 Red Bull; the Merc was the best car that season). Max has won races in inferior cars several times. Alonso also won races in relatively poor cars. It's Hamilton who really struggles if the car isn't 100% to his liking. Truth is that teams don't actually set up cars for just one driver; that Max performs better in the same equipment is down to Max far more than it is the car. Perez was winning races when the Red Bull was significantly better than the other cars; now, he's struggling in the middle order far more, whilst Max is still right up at the sharp end of things.

One of Hamilton’s weaknesses is that he’s never been great on tyre management.

Some of his greatest wins have come from tyre management. That was one of the reasons he consistently thrashed Bottas.

Truth is that teams don’t actually set up cars for just one driver;

Try telling that to Schumachers team mates! 🙂

And welcome new member (or old member under new name!).

Max has won a WC in an inferior car (2021 Red Bull; the Merc was the best car that season).

But only becasue of Michael Masi inventing the rules as he went along. Had Lafiti not crashed, or Masi applied the rules correctly it would've been Hamilton's 8th title. Max won 9 races and Hamilton 8, (Max's 9th being the controversial decider)  I don't think that points to either car being demonstrably better or worse than the other.

Truth is that teams don’t actually set up cars for just one driver;

No, they develop the car to go as fast as it can, it that development cycle suits the driving style of either driver, well that's how it goes, but to suggest that the team don't listen to Max when he asks for particular characteristics, is a bit naïve

He was always poorer on tyre management than other drivers. His driving style is hard on tyres.

You’ve been watching a different Hamilton to me. His radio style is hard on tyres maybe 😉

Danny Ric confirmed secure for rest of season too - Red Bull is going soft!!! 🙂

One of Hamilton’s weaknesses is that he’s never been great on tyre management.

wasnt this one of the things that got said aaaaaages ago by people that just didnt like him and were running out of things to criticise him for?

Danny Ric confirmed secure for rest of season too

At which team?

https://twitter.com/sebvettel5indo_/status/1817368789190938867

Vettel did a proper race

Sergio Perez to stay at Red Bull after the Summer break.

the Kompromat he has on either Horner or Marko must be quite something.

I think that lass who was recieving the dirty texts from Whinger Spice may have been Checo in drag.

.

Also, anyone know what Ottmar Snaufzaur (sp?) is on about with the new American team? He was a bit vague other than it's not Andretti.

To be fair I think Checo is still on a shoogly peg.  They've just kicked the can down the road.  There is an "Autumn Break" this year in the race schedule and the four races coming up are track where Checo has historically performed well.

If he doesn't perform I think he'll be out the door before Texas

A bit vague that Ottmar thing - the only other people in US racing with the resources to run in F1 is Penske.

The Twitterati seem to think Liberty Media are behind Checo staying this season to avoid a financial fall-out from the Mexican GP if he's not there. Seems it suprised Max and Jos that he'd be back at the Dutch GP.

The issue is, who would replace Perez? Nobody is currently available that would be any better, and Perez has at least got race winning experience. The Red Bull car isn't currently great, it's only Max's ability that's flattering it right now. In my opinion, only Hamilton or Alonso could give Max a run for his money, and they're contracted elsewhere.

The question for me is what they are going to do with Lawson. They promised him a drive for next year which basically means that either Ricciardo or Perez must go. The talk was that they would put Lawson in a RB seat for the second half of the season (let's face it, if they're going to boot either DR or Perez, they might as well do it early and let Lawson get some seat time.) But now they've extended both DR and Perez so it looks to me like they are keeping DR as a fall-back in case Perez doesn't improve. But then if both drivers really lift their games in the second half of the season, they will still need to sack one of them to make way for Lawson.

Lawson, Tsunoda and Ricciardo should be having talks with Audi - there's obviously no long term future with Red Bull for them. Unless Max moves to Mercedes of course! 🙂

The issue is, who would replace Perez?

Take your pick of Lawson, Tsunoda, and Riccardo, whether they'd be any better is probably the question Marko and Horner were deliberating. That they've chosen to do nothing suggests to me at lest that they tacitly given up on retaining the constructors and are hoping that Max can keep in the pointy end of races enough to secure him the drivers champs.

Red Bull just seem to be risking implosion on several fronts.

There’s a real problem looming that Mercedes are now winning multiple races on merit, and they’ve also got shorter odds than RBPT for nailing the 2026 PUs. So there’s a seat up for grabs which was already hot for 2026 but is now looking very appealing for 2025. A couple of months ago it would have looked like a big gamble for Max to consider Mercedes… right now, not so much. Any (more) lack of confidence with RB management or the team is only going to be pushing towards a tipping point. I think it’s quite feasible he could move.

If that happens, suddenly they’ve got four drivers all of whom aren’t entirely convincing candidates for the top team—certainly none which could hold a candle to Max in a Merc, Hamilton in a Ferrari or either of the McLaren drivers. Overnight they’d be relegated to scrapping with Aston Martin for the bottom end of the points.

Red Bull will also need to place Hadjar (current F2 champ leader) somewhere - can't see him wanting to spend a third season in F2.

andrewhFree Member
I think that lass who was recieving the dirty texts from Whinger Spice may have been Checo in drag.

.

Also, anyone know what Ottmar Snaufzaur (sp?) is on about with the new American team? He was a bit vague other than it’s not Andretti.

No it's a bit odd.  If Liberty determined already that Andretti & GM/Cadillac won't "add value" then who would?

Won't be Ford I assume, as they have the RB engine deal already in place.

Getting a bit fed up of what's happening to the sport though.  3 US races, 4 desert races, yet it's Spa/Zandvoort they want to share a fixture. shrug.jpg

He won't be allowed to do another season if wins F2.

There's also Sainz's clause with Williams if Max does leave to go to Merc, he would be their best replacement. (Would Sainz want to? For 25 probably, but for 26 onwards?) Then they've still got Checo, DR, Tsunoda, Lawson and Hadjar to fit into the other three seats

...now then - Penske race with Porsche customer cars in WEC.

Porsche wanted to come into F1 but it fell flat...

#f1rumourstarted!

As well as the serious risk of losing the constructor's championship, Red Bull have a question of getting their developmental priorities sorted for 2025 and 2026. Being the championship leaders means they have less wind tunnel time, etc. so trying to develop this year's car will reduce the work they can put towards next year's. Merc and McLaren seem to have fundamentally better cars now, so Red Bull are facing a huge job to catch them up for next year and also to start developing their 2026 car (which I think they can start work on in January next year). So, Max is facing the prospect of Red Bull either sacrificing next year to focus on 2026 or focusing on developing a car for next year but being behind in 2026. A few months back, I thought the idea of him leaving Red Bull was about as silly as people saying Hamilton would go to Ferrari, but he must be looking at how much the Merc has improved and worrying about Red Bull's future.