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GrahamSI wouldn't want to get in your way, and thus your behavior has inconvenienced me - you got in my way
No, no i haven't. You have (graciously) inconvenienced yourself, which is fine (as it was your choice to do so)
The trick to real world driving is to neither inconvenience others OR yourself. This takes excellent observation, positive defensive driving techniques, and above all, the willingness to want to better your driving.
The trick to real world driving is to neither inconvenience others OR yourself.
So what about the situation where you have to brake and pull in to let some aggressive driver past?
If you want the full list it'll take a while 😉1) I hold a full, clean, UK driving licence, and have done so for 25 years, with ZERO accidents
2) I hold a MSA National A RACE competition licence
3) I hold a MSA National A Rally competition licence
4) I hold a FIA International competition licence
5) I am an IAM Advanced driver
6) I hold a Prodrive "Red" licence (highest level for test track activities and driver tuition).
7) I hold Full Facility access licences for Millbrook, MIRA, Nardo test facilities, including unlimited dynamic assessment
8 )I hold the highest level licences/driver qualifications from the following OEMS: JLR, Aston Martin, Mclaren Automotive, Bentley Motors, and Ford.
9) I hold a Nurbugring Industry pool licence.The only thing i haven't got, and would quite like, is an HGV qualification.
And probably a few others i've forgotten 😉
Should I be impressed? Racing licences don't have anything to do with road driving and a good few of them aren't that difficult to buy. 😉
eh? you asked what my qualifications are, so i listed them for you.
Even if you can't move left, and someone has caught you from behind, perhaps considering speeding up slightly (yes, even if you then break the speed limit, as the risk from doing 75mph in a 70 limit is WAY lower than the risk posed by two cars, doing 70, but 3 feet apart with both drivers getting road rage....)
if someone has caught me up and is all over my ar5e, desperate to get past, the no frickin' way am I going to speed up a little. I'm going to hold back and drive a speedo indicated 69mph, I'm going to ignore you in my mirrors. you'll probably be flooring trying to get past me too the moment I do indicate to pull back in, and I'm not going to hurry that either. I'd rather you spack me up the back end at 69 than 75.
That's also one reason I tend to sit in the middle lane on the autobahn, and tend not to use the fast lane. Yes I've been hassled at 160kph by AMGs, GT3s, etc. because I'm only overtaking at 160 and not the 200 they were doing, and want to be doing.
IDGAS how many licenses or permits you can brag about either.
Flash your blue lights and I'll move over quicker.
The trick to real world driving is to neither inconvenience others OR yourself
I have no idea how that could possibly happen in that scenario, or many other every day scenarios where something has to give and someone has to yield or take action.
So I'll stick to my pretend world driving.
(Before you ask: UK driving license (for less than a decade) + 25 metre swimming badge (front crawl) and a Blue Peter badge)
You're forgetting this is STW maxt, it's compulsory to be derisory when somebody provides exactly the information you asked for.
FWIW I've written my car off by running into the back of somebody else and rolled my car onto a police car coming the other way on a singletrack road, so I'm not about to start bragging about how wonderful a driver I am.
Even though maxtorque could possibly be called Matt in another life, I tend to agree with him more than most folk on this thread.
I've no advanced driving qualifications, but drive 40k a year, have held a driving licence for 27 years and in that time have had a grand total of 3 points, one major (not at fault accident) and 1 minor (slow bump) at fault accident
They're hardly qualifications, if you simply buy them or they are competition related, or give you a position to pontificate on a road driving thread, do they? 😉
They are right though captain. It's a bit rich to ask someone to wave their willy for you, and then laugh at it when they do.
andytherocketeer I'd rather you smack me up the back end at 69 than 75.
Well, call me old fashion, but i'd rather not get rammed off the road at any speed........
If you saw a crazy man running down the highstreet with a handgun, would you go and trip him up?
You know nothing about the other driver, other than they are driving (on average) faster than you. They could be a father rushing to hospital after his daughter has fallen off a horse, they could be a carpet salesman rushing to a late meeting, or a drink/drug fuelled maniac, or they could just be an everyday "idiot" who wants to do 100mph everywhere. And yet, in each and every case, the BEST thing you can do, the thing that results in the lowest risk to yourself (any everyone around you) is to just get out of their way. Let them tailgate the car ahead of you, let them road rage that ignorant sod (who thinks it's fun to hold em up).
Occupying the moral high ground from your hospital bed, or worse, the morgue, is seriously overrated imo......
Two accidents here! Both entering roundabouts when the eejits in front of me didn't spot the gap I had. I was only trying to make bloody progress. 😀
GrahamS
I have no idea how that could possibly happen in that scenario, or many other every day scenarios where something has to give and someone has to yield or take action.
Now you'll probably disagree with me here, but the first step to understanding how, is to get some advanced driving tuition......
You don't need to be Sterling Moss, or want to be able to lap the N'ring in sub 7min, but a basic advanced course (you can start with cheap or even free "assessments" from most local IAM branches) will probably open up a whole new driving world to you.
(PS, don't think i'm all about classic "advanced driving". it has it's place, its methods and routines are very good as a starter, but it's too rigid and a bit stale for the real world in 2015 imo (i'll probably get my IAM quals revoked for saying that...... lol)
[quote=deadlydarcy ]Both entering roundabouts when the eejits in front of me didn't spot the gap I had.
Never done that, probably more luck than judgement. Though since learning about saccades I no longer tend to drive in a way which would result in that as I like to give myself enough time to make sure (in no way critical, but I thought it a point worth making for us imperfect drivers who'd like to be a little better).
roffle @ moral highground.
once I let you past, I'll also hold well back when you tickle the next car up the road on the ar5e, because I really don't want you driving anywhere near me.
indeed the most recent spack on the autobahn that I witnessed was exactly that. one minute being "urged" to pass a truck a bit faster. next minute, 2 "floor it and stamp on the brakes to tailgate the next car" drivers ran out of skill.
impressive how many bits can fall off a modern car. A3 between Frankfurt and Cologne, 2 cars, enough bits to take out all 3 lanes and the hard shoulder.
I may have held them up for what, 20 seconds? Let's round it up and call it a minute. Naff all compared to the time it'll take for the cops and ADAC trucks to turn up to clear up all their mess.
ferrals - Member
I can only think people who really get wound up about this speed to much time in the car. But then we only have one motorway in Wales and it only has two lanes.
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Pfft. You south-westerners. With your 2 lanes. I get 3 lanes to play with every day on the bike. To clarify a few niggles: there are no slow or fast lanes. Merely the near side lane which all traffic should be in unless they are overtaking.
I observe many things on my commute and mostly I observe middle and outer lane drivers all in lines. I am an inside lane pedant and it's likely I'm travelling faster than the rest of the traffic.
But not when they don't have any relevance to the discussion. Should I hit apexes when cornering? Should I use kerbs in order to help me get better exit line and speed on the exit? Etc.
This is a discussion on middle lane hogging and not whether an Aston Martin is better than a Bentley through Druids, so the majority of the qualifications mean squat.
Finally maxtorque was begging the question by calling out wilburt, so I thought I'd oblige.
Just to qualify, I've never been in a racing car, I've never associated with racing drivers, I've never driven performance cars and I've most certainly not got any qualifications that contain the word advanced. 😉
captainsasquatch
They're hardly qualifications, if you simply buy them or they are competition related
It's taken me over 20 years in the automotive industry to accrue those quals, none of them can "just" be bought, and a large number take years to earn. Turn up at Mclaren and ask to take a P1 out on a road assessment and see how you get on, for example......... (hint, nobody lets just anyone take a £1M, 217mph car out on the public road. In fact, it's significantly harder to get the road based authorities than the track ones)
However, what they [b]don't[/b] do is make me a "good" driver. Like mountain bike skills, that can only be earned through continued hard work, external and self assessment, and the aptitude to want to keep learning and improving.
@aracer Hey listen, I've kinda learned my lesson (you'd think once would be enough...and I was a lot younger 😳 ) but now I keep my eyes on the guy in front until it's my turn. Thing is, if they'd been making progress like I was, it wouldn't have happened, so in maxtorque' world, they were to blame for it really.*
Funny thing is, despite me getting out, holding my hands up and saying "Sorry mate, completely my fault, how can we sort this out?", neither of them ever let me fix their cars. One of them said "Oh, look, it's my landlord's car, I'll just tell him somebody smashed into it in a car park..." 😯 So, I'm guessing uninsured for him and the other guy...I dunno...chased him three or four times to fix it and gave up.
*yes, I'm taking the Mick.
It's taken me over 20 years in the automotive industry to accrue those quals, none of them can "just" be bought,
The MSA can "just" be bought though, can't it? I could rock up tomorrow and walk away with a licence after paying my fee. It wouldn't make me a good road driver, would it? More aware in certain aspects, but not better or put me in a position to tell others how to drive.
I'm not doubting your history or credentials or ability to drive competition cars. I'm questioning the relevance of this in regard to middle lane hogging.
But you still felt the need to question wilburt's qualifications. ❓However, what they don't do is make me a "good" driver.
[i]However if I am passing two cars close together and they fly up behind me at 100mph, tailgate, and flash their lights to try and force me out of their way then they can bite me, frankly. Wait for the road to clear before speeding, like everyone else.[/i]
Similar thing happened to a policeman friend of mine who was getting harangued by an irate driver behind. He waited for a significant period of time and then pulled back in when safe. The chap behind pulled alongside to overtake and started to mouth off until my mate held up his warrant badge. Apparently he dropped back and stayed a few car lengths behind for quite some time!
Unfortunately, as the road (which was a dual carriageway) was congested there was no point flahing my mate to get out of the way as he could only make
This is why driving in France is awesome - there are no middle lanes!
No, you just can't just "buy" a National A licence. Whilst it is not difficult to get, it requires you to be tested in theory and in practice.
I'd agree that those qualifications themselves don't grant me any additional relevance, what they show is the capability for reasoned assessment of both my driving and that of others. At Prodrive, one of my jobs was to introduce Police Class 1 drivers to the capabilities of their patrol cars. Those sorts of things teaches one a lot about "drivers" both good and bad.
And i'm not telling you how to drive, all i ask is for you to apply consideration and courtesy to your driving. That's it really 😉
@sasquatch, You've got to understand that every driving thread is an opportunity for maxtorque to:
a) Use the phrase "Speed doesn't kill. Inappropriate speed kills."
b) provide various arguments why he should be able to drive at whatever speed he wants...
by
c) Insinuating that anybody who just wants to get from A to B in one piece without breaking the speed limit (usually molgrips) is somehow an idiot who inconveniences anybody who believes he or she is too good a driver* for speed limits to apply.
*supported with lots of qualifications.
Look, as night follows day, he does it. In every thread. Even ones that aren't really about speeding.
ell_tellSimilar thing happened to a policeman friend of mine who was getting harangued by an irate driver behind. He waited for a significant period of time and then pulled back in when safe.
Proving that even those people tasked with "upholding the law" are not perfect drivers! Anything you do to "escalate" the situation is a poor choice. If that is slowing down excessively, brake checking them, or waiting for a longer than normal period of time to move to the left, anything that could be construed to annoy the other driver.
If a policeman did that during a driving assessment they would be failed and with good reason.
Now you'll probably disagree with me here, but the first step to understanding how, is to get some advanced driving tuition......
Probably not a bad idea, though to be honest having heard you advocate speeding and driving at 100mph, as well as apparently condoning tailgating and hassling other drivers to get out your way, frankly I'm not convinced that's a path I want to take even if it did make me a better driver. 😕
I still don't understand the need for maxtorque (the name should give it away though) to pull wilburt and ask for his qualifications.
Look, as night follows day, he does it. In every thread. Even ones that aren't really about speeding.
Is he The Stig? Or worse, Clarkson? 😆
Nice try Darcy, nice try 😉
Is he The Stig? Or worse, Clarkson?
And if he was, he'd be a better driver than anyone on here, no doubt
@maxtorque to be fair to my mate, he was off duty so in his own car. And it was a dual carriageway in rush hour traffic so hardly trying to "escalate" the situation and more a case of there was no where for him to go.
I reckon people like this just fail to plan their journey properly so drive like a a hole in an attempt to make up time.
And if he was, he'd be a better driver than anyone on here, no doubt
On track or road?
It's not that big a deal maxtorque but it's just the same shtick over and over from you in all these threads. Your opinion is clear - it seems everybody on the road is an inconvenience to you and the speeds at which you want to be able to drive.
We're all traffic just trying to get from A to B in one piece. You're traffic. I'm traffic. We're ALL traffic.
It's being an arsehole at an inappropriate time which gets people killed. Don't be one of those.
GrahamS
having heard you advocate speeding and driving at 100mph,
I'm not advocating speeding.
I'm advocating: [b]Giving drivers the necessary training and tools to make rational, accurate, and above all sensible, decisions about their speed at ALL times. [/b]
Just reading an arbitrary value on a sign teaches drivers NOTHING about appropriate speed. I also advocate drivers having absolute responsibility for their actions. If you chose to drive at 100mph, you should also be made to face tany consequences of that action if it turns out to be inappropriate. (I think our penalties for dangerous driving, or in-attention / carelessness are far too lenient btw)
GrahamS
as well as apparently condoning tailgating and hassling other drivers to get out your way
I am in no way condoning that. Please re-read my posts.
What i am advocating is drivers understanding that other drivers are not perfect, and sometimes, going out of their way to de-escalate a situation, even if that situation is as a result of another drivers aggression, inattention or incompetence!
deadlydarcyIt's being an arsehole at an inappropriate time which gets people killed. Don't be one of those.
Isn't this ^^^^ exactly just what i've been saying?
On track or road?
Anywhere, due to being very good at handling a car/reading what's around you. I'd imagine that would transpose to a bit of roadsense too?
Anywhere, due to being very good at handling a car/reading what's around you. I'd imagine that would transpose to a bit of roadsense too?
Not necessarily, we've all seen F1 drivers make mistakes when the pace is reduced due to them not being able to adapt to the slower speeds, haven't we? It's not an assumption I subscribe to.
Driving stages go:
Incompetence - > Competence -> Overconfidence.
You want to be in the middle of that. (no, not in the middle lane! 😉
The reason so many of the AD methods use highly repetitive techniques and constant assessment is that staying in that middle ground is actually very difficult.
bragging about skills suggests that you missed out Complacency.
/me stops feeding dwellers under the bridge.
Give over captain. Have you any idea how hard a highly tuned 1000bhp race car is to handle at any speed, never mind with cold slicks? That's nothing to do with diminished perception of their surroundings.
Give me the option of travelling on a busy motorway with a racing driver, or a sanctimonious highway code abider, I know where I'd be sat
I'd also add the following buzz words:
"Maximise Progress, Minimise Conflict"
So that everyone can say "urgh, there's that making progress thing again" 😉
[quote=GrahamS ]as well as apparently condoning tailgating and hassling other drivers to get out your way
There's a [b]huge[/b] difference between condoning them and decreasing their impact on your safety by minimising the amount of time you spend in front of them. I hate them as much as anybody, and have been known to deliberately slow down when I've got one behind me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to set myself up as a deliberate road block - which is what some seem to be advocating.
Not only that, but the original suggestion was to minimise the amount of time you were in the way of all drivers (including the courteous ones) by accelerating a little when overtaking.
Maxtorque is considerably better than you!!!
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-34933345 ]On the BBC today, middle lane hogging can REALLY annoy lorry drivers.[/url] The fact the road warrior was the manager of a dashcam company stinks to me.
It people who can't keep a constant speed that get me. Small rise of n the road and its down to 65 I overtake the if flattens out and they are doing 80 to the overtake then slow down again. Retards.