To the employer who posted above.
Do you really think that forcing someone to come in an extra 2 days because they have handed in their notice is actually a fair and correct thing to do?
Fingers crossed your employees are a bunch you can walk over then
In all fairness, we don't actually know if it's a case of being 'forced' to go in; the OP stated that it was casual hybrid working, and that their contract explicitly states the office as their workplace. It's certainly not nice, but it's not tribunal level discrimination. In retrospect, getting a contract amendment to recognise working from home for 2 out of 5 days might have been prudent, but that's a moot point. As I and others have said, email your reasons for not wanting to do it - with examples of other leavers and their notice periods for consistency.
We also don't know the historical relationship between employee and employer, as much as we all want to trust the sincerity of the OP. We're not privy to their records or history, so generalised grievances towards employers don't really help; we've all had crap managers, for sure. Whoever is making the decision has their reasons - and these might seem jobsworthy or even nefarious - but until you've got all the facts, it's speculative. Yes, lots of managers or HR admin below them are whoppers, but it might be a more substantial reason than just sticking the boot in.
Personally, given the light at the end of the tunnel with self-employment, I'd accept it and turn in. The extra £500 in travel costs would sting, but the thought of a minimum week's leave in that 3 month notice (along with 3 bank holidays in May) breaks it up. Especially with the improved weather and enjoying the riding whilst contemplating being your own boss.
I'd just be having a face to face conversation - I know that's not the internet way when it come to advice and most recommend the nuclear options. Get a handle on why they think you specifically need to be in and others did not. It could be they envisage using you in a different way in your last 3 months and that is better done at the office. It could be that as they know It could be all about handover. It could be that as you are setting up your own company when you leave they plain don't trust you not to be spending your time out of the office getting that off the ground to mitigate the massive short term drop in income you can expect on day one unless you've done your prep first. It could be they have been concerned about your performance away from the office already and were going to put measures in place and your resignation has just brought that to the fore faster. It could be if your new business is in the sector you'll spend the days away from oversight pinching clients. It could be they want you to start negotiation shorter notice and think this might induce it from your perspective). Who knows. But a real conversation might well help make that happen. It also might bring about a shortening of the notice period which may of may not be a good thing from your perspective (were you planning on using the 3 months to get things up and running on the down low and no pay sooner would be you scuppered?)
As above it sounds like you place of work is the office and wfh some of the time is a recent (post pandemic) exception. TJ has obviously been involved union representation but as far as I'm aware not since the pandemic and not in this sort of environment so I'd take his advice at arms length. The fact is that millions have been ordered back to the office and not always uniformly. This is a very new and current issue across the country and globe. I doubt there is much that could be done (or worth doing) going down that route.
Oh, it could also be that your colleagues that left were seen (in retrospect, by the employer/manger) to be bone idle when WFH on notice and you are just the first recipient of the new working notice policy. After all, for the vast majority of us, motivation when serving notice is definitely below what it was prior to that. Would I be effective WFH when working my notice - not sure I would be, especially if my head was full of all the stresses of setting up my own business.
TJ has obviously been involved union representation but as far as I’m aware not since the pandemic and not in this sort of environment so I’d take his advice at arms length
Fair enough. Advice on the internet is worth what yo pay for it 🙂
Fair enough. Advice on the internet is worth what yo pay for it 🙂
oh shit! nobody said that was part of the STW membership package!
As a (previous) worker myself, I do find it disheartening that another employer endorses such a petty and obnoxious attempt at punishment of an employee for having the temerity to leave a job. If this is the level STW works at, what is the hope for the wider management in the UK?
I don't endorse it (I can't as I don't know the exact details), but I can see that there could quite legitimately be business reasons why they would want the OP to be in the office more regularly to ensure a smooth handover.
To the employer who posted above.
Do you really think that forcing someone to come in an extra 2 days because they have handed in their notice is actually a fair and correct thing to do?
Fingers crossed your employees are a bunch you can walk over then
Again, depends on whether there are any legitimate business reasons for the OPs employer. And, for what it is worth, I wouldn't behave like that as my business has transitioned to almost exclusively remote working now so we would be happy to do any required handovers remotely. And I would never 'walk over' employees, that isn't in my nature – but, likewise, I wouldn't expect any of my employees, working their notice, to get themselves signed off sick or any other methods in order to avoid working their notice as that could be very disruptive to our business and clients. (And in 19 years of business, no-one has done anything like that so hopefully I *AM* seen as a fair employer).
And I would never ‘walk over’ employees, that isn’t in my nature – but, likewise, I wouldn’t expect any of my employees, working their notice, to get themselves signed off sick or any other methods in order to avoid working their notice as that could be very disruptive to our business and clients.
Exactly - treat your staff well they will be more productive.
What legitimate bushiness reasons could there be? Not argumentative just interested to know what I might have missed. I cannot see anything that going on notice changes
This probably isn't an employer related issue, it is more than likely personality driven by the OPs line management chain. It's pettiness for the sake of pettiness, and will stem from more than just handing in their notice.
It's doubtful it's as black and white as seems, but if i was the OP, i'd be looking at justification for this change in circumstances, i.e. are they wanting to train someone up, hand over equipment, etc, etc, if so, who else is there, will there be the appropriate supervision in office, inclusive of H&S coverage, final one would be agreeing a reduced notice period.
What legitimate bushiness reasons could there be? Not argumentative just interested to know what I might have missed.
I have no idea, as I don't know the OPs line of work, but if it was in my business, the employee could be halfway through a software development project and needs to spend additional time handing it over to a wider team of developers, account managers, delivery leads etc (and, as they all work in the office three days a week but not necessarily the *SAME* three days a week, the OP needs to be in the office more regularly in order to handover to them all). But as I say, it wouldn't really be a problem for us as we are 90% remote but clearly the OPs employer is not as everyone goes into the office three days a week as a minimum anyway.
if so, who else is there, will there be the appropriate supervision in office, inclusive of H&S coverage
The company already expect all employees to be in the premises 60% of the time as a minimum - it's hardly going to be a wilderness of bindweed and discarded pre pandemic McDonald's boxes.
The company already expect all employees to be in the premises 60% of the time as a minimum – it’s hardly going to be a wilderness of bindweed and discarded pre pandemic McDonald’s boxes.
You say that, but then have the misfortune to look in the works fridge for milk!
don’t want to end 9 years with the company on a sour note.
I think they've done that for you. Funkydunk has a reasonable approach. Enjoy your three months. 🙂
whats the sickness policy
whats the sickness policy
Taking time off when you are genuinely sick is the common practice.
Can you agree to that to facilitate an easier handover against a shorter notice period? I did something similar on my last move.
time handing it over to a wider team of developers, account managers, delivery leads etc
You could argue that's better done remotely via Teams. I've just started a contract & most of the handover from the guy I'm backfilling as he moves to a project is done WFH. That way Teams sessions can be recorded in addition to note taking.
there could quite legitimately be business reasons why they would want the OP to be in the office more regularly to ensure a smooth handover.
I agree it's a theoretical possibility, but if it were the case, I'd assume that this would have been explained to the OP and he would either agree or disagree and in any case mention it in his post, since not doing so would render any advice very hypothetical and probably irrelevant. I mean, "I'm the only person who can operate machine X and it takes Y days to train up my replacement" would certainly change the context very significantly.
You could argue that’s better done remotely via Teams.
Yes, yes you could. Equally you could argue, as I did, that the employer may prefer to do it face-to-face. We're all guessing as to why the decision was actually taken – it could have been for very legitimate business reasons just as much as it could have been nothing but sheer bloody-mindedness.
Could it not be as simple and cynical as the employers want to get the most output, for as long as they keep paying for it?
They might just be thinking that those two days out of the office could be used by the OP to set up his new hustle on their coin, and they want to avoid that?
They still pay, they want to have some control while they do.
I would chirpily go in the office, ostentatiously put my feet on a desk while messing on my phone and take long lunches. Thinking of the good life to come.
I don't believe in annoying people while working your notice, but expecting full commitment is foolish and with this example expecting attendance at a greater level than normal just because you have handed in notice is idiotic
Quite.
Either the OP is sufficiently well paid that complaining about an extra £21 is just being petty, or they're not in which case the company should consider itself lucky that the employee is still around at all after the first fortnight.
This has probably been said already, but if the OP is starting a new business his bosses probably don't want him sat at home working on his new enterprise while being paid by them. Especially if it's a related business.
I would chirpily go in the office, ostentatiously put my feet on a desk while messing on my phone and take long lunches. Thinking of the good life to come.
I like this. You could go full Gallic. Have a chaise lounge installed and drape yourself over it, wearing a smoking jacket, sipping absinthe, smoking Gitanes and reading poetry.
If anyone challenges you, simply shrug and say something enigmatic about seagulls, sardines and trawlers
I have just finished a three month notice period and it really dragged particularly as I was not allowed to tell customers I was leaving until I had just four weeks to go.
My advice would be for the OP to document what he needs to do in terms of finishing work, handovers etc. then come up with a plan to do that as efficiently as possible and make the affected managers and colleagues lives as simple as possible.
If the relevant people see you making this effort they may be willing to be more flexible around home working and maybe also bring forward the leaving date.
If they don't respond positively then they cannot complain if you do the bare minimum and are disengaged from the business.
The stationary cupboard is work along with toilet rolls - of course you should go in. And stock up.....if you're leaving to go self employed your futures poo's will be costing you in time alone not even considering toilet roll costs.
software development project and needs to spend additional time handing it over to a wider team of developers, account managers, delivery leads etc (
Got to say for the most part this is much better done via teams, concept board, confluence and some walk throughs via teams that can be recorded. The sitting with each other idea never works. Only exception for this is some embedded and machine control development where you need to have over some hardware tip and tricks and even then the software part is best down remotely.
The stationary cupboard is work along with toilet rolls
This is a very good point.
