[Closed] For the Climbers - John Dunne, The Big Issue

Great! I have this on vhs in the loft, but haven't watched it in years.
I met the big man once. I was making a real hash of West Side Story at Burbage and John rocked up and cruised it a few times to show his mate. His technique and footwork was just stunning to watch.

Great film. You just need Jim Jewell's 'Total Control' to add to the mix.

Thanks. I'll be watching this later for sure!

I climbed with John a few years ago, was quite a buzz to have the big man holding my ropes. He cheered me up a 6b+ which was on my limit at the time. Really top guy, the Sheffield mafia ruled in the early 90s and he trod his own path. But I was always mystified by the antagonism. Will watch that with interest thanks.

There's an interview/ boulder problem bit in the film that covers the antagonism from John's side.

The Sheffield lot (Dawes excepted) were all about being thin, ripped, looking for marginal gains in power, and this enormous bloke was basically the opposite of that - vast amounts of power to spare coupled with improbably good technique. You can see why some of his ascents didn't compute with them in an era before every big climb was filmed.

As he says, there must be an element of jealousy there given they were disputing stuff that had been witnessed by multiple people. Didn't help that he was nicking prime Peak lines like Parthian.

Love that Divided Years footage. Total control in a situation where he was clearly pumped stupid.

Ta. Bought some gear from his shop in the 90s. He invited me to go out for a day at Malham Cove to get some use from it. I was climbing E1 at the time if I was on top form. 😯

I politely declined

Great film. You just need Jim Jewell's 'Total Control' to add to the mix.

I did not know about the Jim Jewell film. On a side note, the guy I used to climb with back in my uni days (in Sheffield, where else would you go in 1991?) was at Tremadog and saw Jim fell off Poor Man's Peuterey and die (October 31st 1987, which also happens to be my birthday).

I was making a real hash of West Side Story at Burbage

I don't think anyone would judge you harshly for that, it is English technical 7a after all.

I climbed with John a few years ago, was quite a buzz

I bet it was! I worked with someone for a short while in London who was part of his climbing circle. He was great Yorkshire lump of a bloke as well and strong as ****!

The Sheffield Mafia is an apt term. As I said, I was at Sheff uni 1991 to 1995 and saw first hand what it was like. I still don't understand why Dawes didn't think more highly of Dunne. Yes they were very different in their approach and philosophy but both were complete geniuses and it's not like Dawes needed to be jealous of anyone. There is no one like Johnny Dawes either then or now (largely because he's a space alien).

I knew John reasonably well back in the day. He was "controversial" because he wasn't part of the Sheffield scene.

As above, his footwork was way better than many of his peers. I saw him at a climbing wall once, he was bouldering with another of the top climbers (one many will have heard of): John moved silently across every problem whereas the other guy sounded like a herd of elephants.

Had the great pleasure of joining him for a chip buttie at Nottingham wall when he was doing a boot demo one evening. Down to earth and a joy to chat to about life and climbing at any level. Then he got me into some silly tight shoes that were awesome for the one short problem I could wear them for...

I miss climbing...

Fing shoulder!

Thanks for the link, will watch it later

Quality thread for a quality bloke. I always have a good gawp at New Statesman when I'm up at Cow & Calf.

Nice of him to introduce the world (aka Sheffield) to E10 back in 1995. I'll bet that was a grumpy day in Nether Edge.

Yeah that foot work is a joy to behold, have watched it alot and trying to reproduce it is very challenging. We went out drinking after the the crag. He can tuck it away too!

Have often heard dawes referred to as a genius but nice to see Dunne get the tag too.

Basically John Dunne was/is to climbing circa 1980s/90s as Don Whillans was to the 1950s/60s. Hard as nails, strong as **** and billiant all at once.

Burbage was my favourite crag while at Uni; I used to thumb out from Hunters Bar roundabout after lectures for a few hours soloing in the evening and would almost always stand underneath Parthian Shot at some point and gawp in amazement.

spacey - Member
the Sheffield mafia ruled in the early 90s and he trod his own path

Blast from the past! I used to work at the wall where the indoor bits were filmed, I remember John being a regular; we used to take the piss that he was waiting round for the Ginsters delivery! Nice guy, I still occasionally bump into him through work.

Well it wasn't just Dunne; there was the whole Peak vs Yorkshire rivalry that ran pretty deeply. It usually went along the lines of all sport route grades in Yorkshire were over stated and in response, the Yorkshire lot said that all Peak grit route were over graded. Yorkshire grit was always seen as '****in desperate 'ard' and in the Peak there is even a route called 'Yorkshire 8b' which was, at the time, it might have been upgraded by now and therefore lost its irony, graded 8a (just checked and the loss of holds means it's now 8a+).

The Sheffield Mafia though really did exist - Moon, Moffat, Zippy, Myles etc. S7 ruled.

For anyone familiar with Burbage and the route 'Nosferatu', that was first done by Andy Barker, who was also my karate teacher at Uni. He was strong as **** as well.

Sorry this is turning into a bit of a trip down memory lane as well as a tribute to John Dunne.

Memory lane trip is a good thing. When I climbed the likes of Dunne and Dawes were the climbing gods of the day. What they did inspired us, albeit we were at a far lower level. But still, their achievements inspired me to climb in many tremendous places. Peak and Yorkshire grit, the slate quarries, [s]Buoux[/s] (that would have been Moon) etc.

Anyway - all heros then. The politics largely passed us London climbers by.

Bookmarked for later. Thanks.

Love the Stone Monkey film, his line, ethics, and courage on Indian Face are wonderful.

Blimey I miss days out on the edges. What I would give for a day just pottering about even somewhere like Windgather (a favourite spot back when).

My first ever day out at Froggatt I remember a Ron Fawcett bloke soloing some e desperate next to me (being dragged up as a second on something).

Enjoyed that, thanks for sharing op

Blimey I miss days out on the edges. What I would give for a day just pottering about even somewhere like Windgather (a favourite spot back when).

Get out then. It's still there, it's still easy and it's still a grand place for a picnic (unless of course you're immobilised or in Khartoum).

I knew John reasonably well back in the day. He was "controversial" because he wasn't part of the Sheffield scene.

Bob, next time we are chatting on the BB200 we should expand our range.

I grew up climbing the Cow and bouldering on the Calf. Sports lessons at Ilkley Grammar were a choice between 'Ruggers' with Tipping or a small group chose climbing with Captain Gibson.

How he climbed 'New Statesman' is beyond me, it had no holds!! We top roped it, it's actually not possible

I'm a JD fan. He was the local hero we stumbled upon most in my youth and we always watched in awe. I remember one occasion in late 80's or early 90's JD bouldering in Ilkley quarry and it was jaw dropping to watch him moving effortlessly around the quarry. Also sat and watched Steve Rhodes on one occasion which was a pleasure (many years later re-discovered him as a key person in the development of Stainburn mountain bike trails nr Harrogate and a thoroughly nice bloke).

I never did understand why he was such a controversial figure

A friend of mine climbed with him and new him well. He said JD was a bit of a bullshitter in his day to day chat which rubbed folk up the wrong way and lead them to assume the BS extended to his climbing. Although this mate wasn't there at any of the controversial ascents he sport climbed and trained with him and was 100% convinced of his ability.

Switching from past talent to current talent, you have to be impressed with the current crop of hard grit/trad climbers like James Pearson, Jordan Buys and Pete Whitaker.

And of the latter, is this the hardest move on grit ever (or indeed on any route?) That is an insane rock over!

The direct start to Braile Trail - The Dynamics of Change:

Did a bit of climbing with him myself back in the early 90's and for his size he was amazingly strong. And technically excellent too as others have said. Remember popping up to Ilkley quarry and him soloing Wellington Crack which slightly blew my mind.

He did court controversy too, I remember tipping him off on a project in Norh Yorkshire once which he went up and nabbed in an evening; kind of riled the person who bolted it but was clearly not strong enough to get up at the time. Lost touch but bumped in to him at a close friends funeral (another well known climber from that era who was also a frequent presence on here) and he was as down to earth as ever. I miss the Bradford climbing scene as it was not far off matching Sheffield scene in terms of standards but nowhere near as well known or populated.

That'll be Ian Vincent i suppose, lived in Saltaire I think (IanV on here). Looks like the whole back catalogue of sid Perou has been put on you tube, his voice is so familiar.

Yep, it was IanV, lived in Saltaire as you say. I climbed a lot more with him than John back in the 90's, mostly at Malham, but he was also an incredibly good climber, didn't get the recognition he deserved in my opinion

I remember Ian doing laps on Free and Even Easier: he'd lead it four or five times then top rope it a few more times. As a warm up!

When did this come out? I Remember watching this when I was climbing lots and going out to buy a friend 5 (?) to try Elder crack.... 20 years ago...? God.... I couldn't get up unclimbed wall at Harrison's a couple of weeks ago... John Dunne came into the wall at Redhill once and I was in awe of his footwork...nice bloke. Thanks for this....

I remember Ian doing laps on Free and Even Easier: he'd lead it four or five times then top rope it a few more times. As a warm up!

Braile Trail - The Dynamics of Change

@turboflad - Yes, whenever we headed over from the Lakes he'd be there doing laps 🙄

I climbed a lot with John in the mid 90's. At the time he was returning to climbing after his shoulder operations, and having been disillusioned with it all, plus having had a go at running his shop.

He's a pretty direct and honest guy, and a really nice bloke. Really supportive of fat weak punters like me.

The whole Sheffield v JD / West Yorkshire scene was a bit like Blur v Oasis. The posh kids v the working class kid. As someone said up thread, Sheffield was very much the broccoli warriors, and John was more strength, and just breathtaking footwork and natural balance.

Hence there was a lot of innuendo and rumour about pulling on gear, not admitting to redpointing and general antagonism.

I never heard anything that corroborated the rumours, and I think time has vindicated John, that and the just stunning Divided Years which was a real two fingers to his critics.

Turboflard / B.a nana

Ian was ace - as you say, a really underrated climber. He'd nip up Baildon Bank, (just behind his house) do a few routes and be in the pub before we had got to the second round.

I can't recall the route (might have been Wellington) but he tried to climb it in his brouges, slipped and broke his legs. Was still back out climbing 5 week later.

Guys - we may have climbed together. I was think in with Leeds Poly and the Braford lads in the early to mid 90's. Climbed with Howard Owen, Andy the Clam and various YMC types.

Divided Years which was a real two fingers to his critics.

Which is precisely what Parthian Shot was:

A volley of fire made by a retreating army, made famous by the Parthians.
By way of metaphor, "Parthian shot" also is used to describe a barbed insult, delivered as the speaker departs.

The direct start to Braile Trail - The Dynamics of Change

When I was climbing during my uni years (1992-95 in Sheff), one of the guys I became a regular partner with earned himself something of a reputation for fairly bold on sights. I watched him on sight solo several of the really bold E5s on the Great Slab of Froggat Edge. He would just mosey on up to 'have a look' and then the next thing is he'd be half way through the crux. And this was in the day before everyone got soft and started bringing monstrous crash mats to the crag!

Will watch tonight #BookMarked

Who's Andy the Clam, Andy Swann?

Oh dear (I am old), so many names from the past. Have watched Dunne at Malham back in the day while spending many hours (days) on the ledges, always seemed a good guy to me. Same Dawes, bouldered with him in the pass years ago, friendly guy. My best memory (of big names) is of watching Ron Fawcett shunting up and down routes in sub-station quarry at Stoney, he really was a nice guy and encouraging.

The magazines of the time were full of b...sh.t about this and that. If you traveled around a bit then most climbers were pretty ok with the exception of a few tossers. The Saddleworth-Glossop scene that was based out of SIDS (remember that?) was a good one as I recall. Rose tinted glasses an all that.

Some of you will remember Naheem (Sid) Siddiqi. Bumped into him a couple of years ago as he lives near my sister in law. He's into mountain biking now.

watching Ron Fawcett shunting up and down routes in sub-station quarry at Stoney

Some of you will remember Naheem (Sid) Siddiqi

yes indeed. He used to pop into Jo Royle (where I worked as a youngster) and drop off his hand-made route guides to the latest loose and unpleasant limestone crag he'd just bolted 😆

Watching some of these videos makes me miss climbing, but it's another activity fallen* by the wayside as life reprioritises.

*(pun not intended)

Aaagh! It's not Naheem, it's Nadim 😳

Loose and unpleasant limestone crag - AKA the Peak District 😉

Talking of loose and unpleasant limestone crags, I used to live with Harpur Hill quarry behind my garden and I [i]still[/i] never chose to climb there 😆

Was at Harpur Hill tother day visiting HSE, mentioned it was a nice change not to be chased out by security. Not seen Sid in years, last time was in Linthwaite (I think).

JD used to frequent Warrington climbing wall back in the day before he opened his own in Manchester. It was always mind-boggling watching him train by doing laps of 7a/b's with only smears for feet. I always preferred his style of climbing to the more dynamic style of Dawes etc. My oldest daughter is big into climbing and I'm always telling her to try to climb like Dunne instead of jumping and slapping for stuff.

Also watched Livesey "bounce" down Green Death from one hold to the next

Green Death has holds? 😯

JD used to frequent Warrington climbing wall back in the day before he opened his own in Manchester.

That link sent me down a very pleasant YouTube black hole at the w/e!

stever, we probably crossed paths too; I was the first employee at Warrington, as a 17 year old doing the Saturday shift!

Green Death has holds?

Talking of falling off, here's a fall off an E10 (I thought it was [i]only[/i] an E9). Very nonchalant....

Nice guy Jules, but definitely missing [i]something[/i] he is. Dragged me up my first E1 he did.

Enjoyed the Big Issue (thanks OP), always gave me inspiration did John (me looking more like him than any of the Sheffield crew.... 😳 ). Might have to rig up the video player and see what else I have kicking about on VHS.

Well I must have missed geetee by just a year at Sheffield. I was there just 89-90 I think, for teacher training. Is just my mates who called the Sheffield crew the "LAs" pronounced "lars"

I never met John Dunne but I think he did like to promote a bit of controversy. We were in the cafe at Stoney and a mate of mine asked for the new route book. So I saw the entry for Partheon Shot. He really layed it on thick. No unemotional write up, I wish I had a photo. He'd written it like an advert "As Seen On tv" in huge letters in a sort of star burst bubble. I think it also said "route of the future repeated" and loads of line from Stone Monkey

I'd heard Dawes didn't believe he'd done it, so asked him about it ( In Pete's Eats of course). He said that he didn't believe John Dunne had done it as he thought John Dunne was to inconsistent in terms of what he could and couldn't climb or something like that.

It all seems a bit odd viewed from afar.

I'll watch the video later in the week

Many thanks for posting this film.

I met John and chatted with him several times while climbing in Warrington he was always great to get on with and never in your face about his awesomeness.
But a lad he climbed with from time to time needed a good slapping 😉

When I was climbing during my uni years (1992-95 in Sheff), one of the guys I became a regular partner with earned himself something of a reputation for fairly bold on sights. I watched him on sight solo several of the really bold E5s on the Great Slab of Froggat Edge. He would just mosey on up to 'have a look' and then the next thing is he'd be half way through the crux. And this was in the day before everyone got soft and started bringing monstrous crash mats to the crag!

Who was that then? Those are the exact dates that I was at Sheffield Uni (well, I've not actually got round to leaving yet).

Nevis the cat, Ba. nana, may well have climbed with you around that time then, though I did spend a lot of my time in Ian's cellar at his warehouse in Saltaire on his board getting unnecessarily strong over 3 moves (4 and I was generally pumped). I climbed a bit outside with Stuart, Steve (Rhodes), Big James (top spotter in the days before mats) and occasionally Adi Gill. In fact if you ever went in JD Mountain Sports in Bradford the likelihood is you'll have been served by Adi, me or John.

Thanks for posting the link, I've not seen that for years. John certainly put up some big routes in his time.

It always seemed to me that he liked his banter in real life and that carried over into how he was seen publicly with his climbing. Maybe courting it to a degree but things getting a little out of control at times.

The Sheffield mafia was a fairly odd phenomenon. I've lived in Sheffield since the mid '90s and bouldered to a high standard (for that time anyway) I did climb with various of the upper echelon Sheffield mafia, they were actually ok mostly. The entourage where the ones who could be idiots. Like people trying to move you off problems because 'Jerry is doing a circuit and will be here in a minute' - well he can wait his turn then can't he!

There were pockets of lovely people, many of who I still know know, but it felt quite unhealthy at times in that anyone who was a threat to the top dogs was often cut off.

I realised the extent of this when we went to stay at Todd skinners place in hueco tanks in '97. An unimaginably welcoming and motivated bunch of folk from around the world. Also I'd though that Ben and Jerry were strong: until I went climbing with Fred Nicole who was quite simply next level strong and had flawless technique too.

Who was that then? Those are the exact dates that I was at Sheffield Uni (well, I've not actually got round to leaving yet).

Good for you for not leaving! That was the right choice.

I should confess that I was actually at the Hallam Uni so we would not have overlapped via the Uni climbing club (and I didn't join Hallam climbing club either) but we almost certainly saw or even met each other at some other point. It would be fun to find out!

The guy I was referring to was called Richard, or just Rich for short. Because there were initially two Richard's in the group I climbing with, I gave him the nickname 'Mad Bastard Rich', on account of his on sight solos of the E5s! I cannot remember his surname (I lost touch with him when I left Sheffield) but he drove a Triumph Dolomite with a fuel gauge that didn’t work, so ever where we went he had to meticulously record the mileage and work out how much fuel he had left so as he didn’t run out! He was also a metallurgist who couldn’t find work and went on to do a PGCE. He was a lovely guy. I always wondered what happened to him.

There were a few other people I climbed with that you may recall. Innis was a very tall, wiry guy with long hair and a reach like an ape. He ended up dating my ex (also a climber, called Serena Whitaker who was from Macclesfield).

If we did meet, then the most likely place was probably at the Ecclesall Road bouldering wall, the block work one of primitive design but it was then (and indeed up until they got rid of it) the only free bouldering wall in the UK. I used to always be down there training on low traverses in a vain attempt to get strong (it never happened). Of course I was at The Foundry quite a bit as well but in those days, you only climbed indoors when the weather was bad or it was dark (and sometimes not even then).

I climbed almost exclusively on grit because I wasn’t strong enough to climb limestone! I did get into sport climbing in the last year I was there and managed a few 7a+s and a 7b but I was always better on bolder grit routes where I found I had a decent head and good foot work. I was pretty pleased with onsighting ‘The Brush Off’ and ‘I’m Back’ on Rivelin Edge, and Downhill Racer on Froggat, albeit after top roping it a few times.

Hmmm, non of those people sound familiar actually, except perhaps if you mean Paul Innes, who now lives in Ireland - I used to come across him through work. I was at Sheffield Uni though, and nobody was posh enough for a car! I do recall one lad that I lived with onsight soloing Right Wall, and some of it was a bit damp too.

You sound very similar to me; I nearly always climbed on grit, mainly soloing, up to E4 or E5 pre-mats. I never really enjoyed limestone in the UK too loose and too tiring!

I am sure we must have come across each other down the poly wall or on Stanage.

Did any of you Sheffield lot know Ruth Jenkins, she was based in Sheffield but don't know if she went to uni there tho. She's tiny but possibly the UKs best female climber at the time (mid-late 90's). Now lives nr Foix in southern France and is a stunt woman.

Did any of you Sheffield lot know Ruth Jenkins,

I can't say I knew her, but I did know her. You couldn't not as she was part of a very dynamic and high profile clique of female climbers in Sheffield at the time. They included the utterly wonderful Rachel Farmer (first woman to climb 8a - Raindogs), Arlie Anderson (bit outspoken, from London but very talented. Famous for being quoted as saying 'it's not the climb that counts it's the grade' having climbed Sturgeon in the Cupboard 7b+ in Cheedale although the one time I spoke to her friend about it she said that the quote was taken entirely out of context), Anne Arran (can't remember her maiden name - she married John Arran some years later and set up a womens climbing teaching business).

I did once hitch a lift with the great and the good of the Sheff team from Hunters Bar (you're not from San Francisco you're from hunters bar...) that included Anne Arran and Ruth Jenkins and they were all really lovely people.

I'm trying to remember if Ruth was the one who climbed Caviar 8a+ on Water cum Jolly or if that was Anne. They were all really short but sublime to watch move over the rock. They did things quite differently to those who were taller.

Rachel Farmer was just a delight to watch. She'd been a ballet dancer before she moved to climbing and her grace and poise really showed through. She was tragically killed in a way not unsimilar to Jim Jewell, moving on an easy traverse in France while wearing trainers.

I know Ruth J. It was her that climbed caviar. Used to climb with her and belay her quite a bit when she was trying that harder route just left of rubicon roof (name escapes me now) also took the photos of John Welford (who was married to her at the time) climbing the first ascent of his hard route at rubicon

She was a fierce climber and certainly blazed a trail for standards to take a leap on.

She's back in the uk now. Living near Beadwell

name escapes me now

Zeitgeist?

Actually that's at Ravenstor. I was thinking of Zeke the Freak.

Ah yes that's it.

I am sure we must have come across each other down the poly wall

I was trying to remember what it was we called it; of course, it was indeed the 'Poly Wall'. That place was so much fun considering it's super basic design and uber high polish. It made Stoney Middleton look like grit it was that smooth and topping out on a desperate move for the bar always gave you a little flutter.

I'm definitely not thinking of Paul Innes, though I am sure that I knew of him because his name is immediately familiar.

onsight soloing Right Wal

Do you mean Right Wall as in Dinas Cromlech or Right Unconquerable on Stanage? I think a solo of any kind of Right Wall would be pretty notable so I'm thinking you meant the latter (though that is still a decent solo).

Yep, Right Wall on the Cromlech. He was very good and a bit barmy. He grew up climbing with Vickers and Parry so wasn't rubbish.

It was quite a strong household i lived in as a student, 5 out of 7 occupants had climbed E5 or above, including lots of grit solos. Adrian did the first ascent of Nightmare on Elm Street at Millstone, E7 or so I think.

Yep, Right Wall on the Cromlech.

That is batshit mental! OK so I guess it's only technical english 6a and it's E5 because it's quite run out in parts but still, that is a monstrous solo even if you've led it already. It's also notorious for being hard to route find as it wanders around all over the place.

Gaz Parry and Ian Vickers were other climbing greats I used to watch and admire from inside the Foundry!

Adrian did the first ascent of Nightmare on Elm Street at Millstone, E7 or so I think.

Ah, Adrian Berry, yes not only do I remember him (I didn't know him) but i was at Milestone Edge one time when he was actually trying that route.

It was my first year at Uni and I was only climbing around E1 at the time. I was roping up to climb Embankment One and he was next to me, cleaning his boots off. I asked him what was the route he was about to do and he replied 'this? this isn't a route yet'. A little while later I saw the report in OTE that he'd done the FA and chuckled to myself.

These were all such happy times but the one thing from that period that irked me was that I actually did the first ascent of what subsequently was claimed and called 'Daz Ultra' on Burbage South. It's the slab between Roof Route and Gable Route.

I was with a mate who climbed at a much lower level and after he'd done Roof Route he asked me what went up the middle of the slab. I didn't know so checked the guide and turns out nothing had been done or claimed so we threw a top rope on it and I gave it a go, climbing it first try.

My mate was super excited and cajoled me to lead it, so I did, with low side runners in Roof Route and called it 'Clark Gable'. I graded it something like E2 5b or E3 5c and wrote it up in the new route book in Outside, Hathersage (this must have been spring in 1992). There were so many notes of scorn next to it - 'Done by everyone, except you it would seem', was one I remember vividly. It was most upsetting. Then someone came along a year later and claimed it, grading it E4 6a, which pissed me right off.

I'm not sure if you know who Andy Barker was (FA Nosferatu on Burbage) but he was a good firend of mine at the time and encouraged me to fight the claim but I could never be bothered as I was really a nobody in climbing terms.