[Closed] Football Warning - Ferdinand, race or ability?

Terry should not be playing. Ferdinand? originaly I thought fair enough but given how callow his replacements replacements are it seems odd

I personally think that Hodgson is building for the next World Cup, and therefore needs to start blooding players who will be available then.

Obviously you still need the experienced players (Gerrard, Terry etc), but players like Kelly are possibly Englands future, and the experience of this tournament will be invaluable.

I think Roy had just made up his mind the first time (correctly) that Rio is finished and doesn't want to go back on that decision. Good centre-halves grow on trees in the UK, so it's not like there's a shortage in the side - Lescott will play and there's Jagielka behind him and both are solid.
Roy should have gone further and binned Terry as well, but clearly that's not his style to clean house in one go.

I agree that Terry should have been axed as well. He's a nasty piece of work.

didn't fergie say that rio can't play 2 games in 4 days ? guy's too old and he's had his time.

it's a non argument.

Weird squad selection though, no Micah Richards, Adam Johnson, Lennon or Crouch, instead going for Kelly, Downing, Oxlade Chamberlain and Carroll, all of whom have done v little this year.

The most recent ommission can only be due to Terry's court case. Hodgson's going to a major tournament with 3 recognised centre halves, I don't remember that happening in my lifetime, Phil Jones demonstrated that he is not ready to play centre half last season for Utd. You'd call Ferdinand up as backup if he was willing to come and that's been made clear.

I don't see how it can be justified on either ability, form, fitness or age. The only explanation imo therefore is that Terry's there and Ferdinand can't be to avoid friction between squad members.

Obviously you still need the experienced players (Gerrard, Terry etc)

Why? All they are experienced in is failing internationally.

Agree, Ferdinand isn't the player he was, but he's still got experience and I'd prefer to see him coming on as a sub than Kelly.

Carroll instead of Crouch makes no sense to me - Crouch has just come off a fantastic season at Stoke, voted player of the year. 25 goals in 53 European games, and 22 goals in 42 games internationally is an amazing record. He's not a starter, but if we're losing with 15 mins left, he's always worth a shout - European and International defenders don't know how to play against him - makes them panic. We're never gonna out pass a decent side like Spain/Holland - the only way we'll win is by playing like Stoke and sneaking something from a set piece.

How Micah Richards got left out is bizarre, as is Johnson's omission.

It's just more anti- Man Utd crap, innit?
Chelsea are the golden boys at the moment and have caught the eyes of the businessmen. It's simply a case of earning more money for the folks who want more.
Bog all to do with football.

TBH I don't think it's anti Man Utd or any other club, it more seems to be pro Liverpool if anything. Worst season in years, 8th best team in the Prem, and Roy still decides that Kelly, G Johnson, Gerrard (fair enough), Downing, Henderson and Carroll all deserve a place above Man City/Utd/Spurs etc players.

Ok we've lost a couple of players to injury, but there's far better replacements than a Ste from Hollyoaks lookalike and Martin Kelly.

That's a bit too ABU even for me, if it was a decision based on the player's club then Rooney would be left out cos he can't play in the first 2 games and Young would be out cos "ref's are wise to him"

didn't fergie say that rio can't play 2 games in 4 days ? guy's too old and he's had his time. it's a non argument.

+1

Apparently Richards did a Carrick & didn't want to be on the reserve list. Personally I rate Richards as the best right back in the country just now, however if his attitude is he's too big for the reserve list then they both have got what they deserve as they both would now be going...

There would be no point taking Crouch, when all of Downings crosses skew off behind the goal line.

I am not sure on Ferdinand, I have always considered him overrated, he believes his own hype and tries to overcomplicate things, he at his best with someone alongside him to keep him in check, a Vidic or Terry, if he can't play with Terry I don't see Lescot or Jagielka doing that.

Micah Richards would probably be in the team now, if he hadn't ruled himself off the standby list.

if his attitude is he's too big for the reserve list then they both have got what they deserve

He should probably already have far more caps than he does, I read somewhere that he was devastated not to be in the team, and just couldn't lift himself to keep training when the probability was that he wouldn't take part.

I don't think anybody's suggesting that Ferdinand should be starting every game when he's been a bit of a crock for the last 3 seasons, but he did a very good job with an inexperienced back 4 after Vidic got injured last season for Utd. For me, he's been the best centre half England have had for the last 10 years.

Do you believe that England would be better off not having him on the bench as an option if Lescott or Terry get injured? Do you believe that Martin Kelly or Phil Jones could offer more if needed?

However [i]"if he can't play with Terry"[/i] really is the issue here isn't it. He hasn't been selected on that basis because given the above, any other explanation just doesn't make sense.

I believe that the fact that Terry is due to face charges for racially abusing Rio's brother. This has a lot to do with why they both can't go.

If the guy's club manager says he can't play twice in four days then that was his fate sealed. "Coming off the bench" is irrelevant, look what happened to Cahill after 15 minutes. Rio might have had to play 90% of the competition (3 games likely!) and he wouldn't have stood up to that. I'd rather have a fit Kelly although as a L'pool fan even I'm shocked at the inclusion of Downing and Henderson! Fergie has been meddling for years and if Rio disagrees with that assessment he should launch him rather than Hodgeson.

Johnson should have gone in place of Downing with my Great Aunt in front of Henderson.

Richards is a brat and should never be considered again, same with Carrick. I cannot believe that Richards has no one close enough to him to advise against his stance. He's good enough to play but if I had Roy's job he wouldn't get another look in. I see a grovelling apology on the horizon...

ferdinand is Loooong past it.. his boss says he cant play too games a week he's 33 it d be his last tournament. give a 22yr old a chance he can play for another 12 years at the top level..

no one gave the greeks a cat in hells chance Woy will have his boys play the same style and try to knick a goal it worked for chelsea against the best clubs in the world..

"Coming off the bench" is irrelevant!! Are you joking?

I'll say it again, nobody is suggesting he should be first choice given his injury history, but what's the likelihood that Terry and Lescott will pick up injuries that'll knock them out of the tournament within the first 3 games and anyway the games spread out after the group stages.

Are you really saying that you'd rather have Kelly (a right back) playing at centre back instead of Ferdinand!?!? Have you watched any football this season?

Do you believe that Ferdinand has not been taken for "footballing reasons" at this stage?

thered - YES I WOULD rather have a fit Kelly than a crocked Rio. I think Jags and then Jones will get the nod before Kelly but you need to check your facts - Kelly is a centre-back not a full back!! He has been played (and looked totally lost) at right back this year but he has always been, and looked pretty effective as a centre back.

So in conclusion, yes I believe Hodgeson when he says 'footballing' reasons - whether that be perceived fitness or perceived talent. As I intimated before, if Fergie had kept his whisky addled beak out of what doesn't concern him, then maybe things would have been different for Rio.

Hahahahaha, you are correct, he is a centre back, he just doesn't play there for his club, makes complete sense to take him in the squad and play him in that position then doesn't it. Says it all about Hodgson's decision and your opinion.

Bit of the bitter ambulance attacker coming out now, I think you need to calm down.

A bit of versatility makes perfect sense to me. Certainly more than your ambulance attacking - I have no idea what that means... 🙄

meh, ferdinand is a drug cheat anyhow.

crouch - "had a great year at stoke", that says it all

good to see hodgson not willing to go back on the decisions of richards/carrick, they wanna throw their teddys, thats up to them

What I find inexplicable is why John Terry was even in the frame in the first place! He's shite! Ignoring the fact that he's a nasty, monumentally arrogant, racist thug, WTF has he done this season? His contribution to winning the champions league consisted of getting sent off for a typical piece of brain-dead stupidity, then suspended for the final. Yeah... Cheers for that, his team-mates obviously thought. You *ing moron! They won it in spite of him. Why the * would any manager want him on their squad? He's a liability!!!

I look forward to him immediately adopting thd role of de facto captain as soon as he gets out there. How many days before he calls a press conference to voice his moronic opinions, and blame the rest of tge team, the manager and the fans? After they've lost the first game perhaps?

He's an utter *ing *!!! And should be thd last person on earth representing this country

Oops! Double post!

Eloquently put binners. I agree with every sentiment.

I am simply amazed that these players wont allow themselves to be on standby/reserve list. F'ck em - would never let em play again. Thick as 5hit.

The standby list is a stupid idea, you are not part of the squad, so you can't travel and train with them. Your club is taking a rest at the end of the season, so you can't train with them. But you have to stay match fit somehow training by yourself.

There should just be an expanded squad with no backup options.

He is useless ...

It was worth saying twice Binners

didn't fergie say that rio can't play 2 games in 4 days ? guy's too old and he's had his time.

it's a non argument.

For me the non inclusion of Richards was daft, Jones is good as back up "versatile", not good enough yet in any position, choice,Richards is ready now and a better player than johnson let alone Jones IMHO.

Once injuries hit it was no longer a footballing decision. I find it hard to believe anyone [ Lodders aside given the teams involved]would rather have Kelly on the bench than Rio.
I cannot see that it is about football reasons now though it could have been initially.
I agree with innocent till proven guilty but a senior player being charged with racism representing his country, or Captain under Capello whilst the FA , rightly, complain about the racist fans in the countries they are going to and whether they are appropriate to host the games...and they wonder why everyone else hates them in FIFA.

Binners - agree that Terry has room to improve as regards his all round likeability, but his primary issue is lack of intelligence. I doubt his team mates would put up with him if he were a racist. Having said that, we all saw what he called Ferdinand - vile thing to say in the heat of the match but surely more stupidity than proof of racist tendencies?

On ability alone, he deserves his place. If we judged them all on behaviour, we wouldn't have a team: -

Cole "Only 55k grand a week!!"
Gerrard "Self-defence with 7 mates"
Rooney "No gran is safe"

etc etc

What I find inexplicable is why John Terry was even in the frame in the first place! He's shite

I don't thnk he is, however, all of our players seem to be left lacking once you remove them from the safety of the premier league. It may well be seen as the greatest league in the world, this last season has shown it as a very exciting one, but technically, we may struggle.

There's a common denominator in all of this - the narrow eyed "ne'er do well" Terry.

He was a major disruption at the World Cup (although Bridge had already split up with the girl, but what Mrs Terry thinks is altogether more important). He has been disruptive at Chelsea for the last five or six years. He is poison, plain and simple.

He's now succeeded in putting Hodgson in a fix. It was inevitable that one of the defenders would get injured, meaning that the decision to leave Ferdinand out would be exposed for what it is - a Terry-caused 'political' decision.

When will someone in Football stand up and say, I haven't picked Barton / Terry etc because he's a turd and he disgraces the shirt he plays in?

There are many problems with all this Terry/Rio thing but I think Fergie is right, Rio has struggled fitness wise and that's a definite negative against him. But I don't think Terry should be there as this court case is definitely going to bite Roy in the arse if Terry is found guilty, which I believe he will. The whole saga stinks and will do British football no good whatsoever. The inclusion of the Liverpool lads is mind boggling and I'm a Liverpool supporter. One thing about the Carroll/Crouch thing is and I'm a massive Crouch fan, is Crouchie gives too many free-kicks away with his arms when the balls played to him and Euro refs will blow up all the time against him now. This was clear in Stokes fabulous Europa Cup run.
Richards by the way has declined to go as he didn't want be picked as a back-up, hence him not being asked to go.

given the teams involved

😐

Jeez. Couldn't let it go.

Maybe Hodgson favours Terry as our far-right ambassador in the Ukraine and Poland. From what I've seen, it looks like he'd go down a storm in Lviv - the 'capital' of Ukrainian nationalism. It some kind of nationalism as well, Ukraine being one of 'those' countries which have always has a mainstream far-right (along with Croatia and the Flanders part of Belgium and others).

Maybe the England team are going to arrive in open-top Mercedes with Terry stood bolt upright in the lead car, inspecting the supporters.....

Think you are forgetting someone?

I feel sorry for the likes of Grant Holt, he's been outstanding for Norwich this season and he was one of the top scoring Englishman in the premier league.

given the teams involved

Jeez. Couldn't let it go.

Think you are forgetting someone?

I feel sorry for the likes of Grant Holt, he's been outstanding for Norwich this season and he was one of the top scoring Englishman in the premier league.

I seem to be in good company

Nah mate, you're out on your own. Try not to let the teams they play for cloud your judgement on this. Poor lodders hadn't even contributed to the thread and yet you couldn't help yourself. Unless there are more injuries to the defensive line up, Rio's not going. Sorry. 🙁

Its not just Rio. Terry is likely to be playing alongside Lescott, who's had a great season, but apparently thinks - correctly - that Terry is a racist ****, and has made no secret of the fact. And I'm sure he's not alone in the squad in that opinion. On top of his previous 'form', his racism should have been the final nail in the coffin of his international career.

If it was me, that ridiculous vainglorious press conference in South Africa would have been the end of it, as it raises the obvious question; just who the hell does he think he is? Bigger than the England squad, obviously. Any manager worth the name would have ended his England career there and then!!

Terry: slow, bad back, prone to bookings, seemingly racist and a ****.

Rio: trading on past glories, will never play every game, nowhere near as quick as he was and his agent's a ****. Rightly left behind IMO

Hodgson: Pretty much fresh from "losing the dressing room" at Anfield and here to build a team for 2 or 4 years time. The other odd selections, we can forgive - just one question: WTF is that **** Terry doing there ??

Try not to let the teams they play for cloud your judgement on this

DannyH and Binners-I commend you both for high quality posting, consider yourselves awarded imaginary repped.

CB-Liverpool fans are described as 'ambulance attackers' because they attacked the ambulance that Alan Smith was in when he was taken to hospital having broken his leg at Anfield.

CB-Liverpool fans are described as 'ambulance attackers' because they attacked the ambulance that Alan Smith was in when he was taken to hospital having broken his leg at Anfield.

Thank you for your classy contribution to the thread.

Hodgson: Pretty much fresh from "losing the dressing room" at Anfield and here to build a team for 2 or 4 years time. The other odd selections, we can forgive - just one question: WTF is that **** Terry doing there ??

This is a man who selected Downing, though. Every time I think Roy might know what he's doing I remind myself of that fact.

Never rated Ferdinand - he ball watches too much and gets caught out. Plus the way he acted after 'that' missed drug test was atrocious.

Hodgson should build a new team completely. All under 22, most under 20. Look at the Germans at the last Word Cup - they were brilliant.

No point keeping the older players - they weren't good enough the last few years, why would they be now? Cant think of one of the older players apart from Gerrard who I would want to keep.

Garry L - I agree on not dumping them all, but Terry is the most gobby, opinionated, disruptive and destabilising of the lot*. If I had to keep a centre half out of the 2 I'd have Rio, if I was RH.

* and he's a ****

I find it interesting how the different standards and rules are applied/broken at different levels along the food chain, and basic expediency always seems to win through to the detriment of good taste.

Terry is heavily alleged to have used racist insults against Anton Ferdinand. The footage doesn't leave much to the imagination - even if you can't lip-read. Yet rather than say, "we can't have this man in the squad with even the hint of this hanging over him", it is argued as a kind of quasi civil rights case "you can't exclude him until it is proven". The irony of this is so tart, you can almost taste it. He then uses the ONLY possible schoolyard defence - "no Miss, you don't understand, I was only saying to him not to worry because he isn't really a black *". The whole thing is farcical. His track record speaks for itself, how he was still in the squad before all this kicked off is beyond me.

Then you have UEFA who claim a zero-tolerance to racism. Yet they implcitly admit there is a problem in Poland / Ukraine by touting their tournament as an 'opportunity for them to address certain cultural issues' or somesuch other management-speak dross.

I wish it were just Terry, but it isn't. When Ashley Cole shoots someone with an airgun as a 'prank gone wrong' and then pays them to keep their mouth shut, no one seems to be all that bothered.

If I was the kid concerned, I would have taken his cash, signed whatever had been hastily drafted by Chelsea's lawyers (or do they have multiple copies at the ready) and still grassed him to the police. That might have had some effect on Cole. As it is, problem gone away, no consequences, and ain't it great being a footballer?

These people are paid over five times the average yearly wage PER WEEK, I do think a bit piety and self-control might be expected? And I don't mean muttering occasionally about being 'umbled' when something happens.

As Mario Ballotelli asked:

"Why Me"

Answer: Because you're a *, no more, no less

I've had enough of this now - my bile is running low. No doubt something that happens over the next few weeks in Eastern Europe will top me up, though.

thered - haven't you got anything to buy or sell? I understand now why you keep your posts limited to the classifieds...

Its hard to make a good case for picking Kelly over Rio

it wouldn't surprise me if the decision to call up kelly rather than rio had something to do with the fact that hodgson also needs cover at right back after seeing jones's woeful attempt in that berth against norway - not even close to being good enough.

And on it rumbles......... http://gu.com/p/385pk

It will never be proven Paulo, it's obviously a major headache for the shambles that is the FA, Bernstein's reaction to questioning on this issue is testimony to that.

The effect that this must be having on the squad will yet again lead to a poor tournament, there's always some controversy around England.

CB-Surely you can come up with a better insult than that!?! That's pretty pathetic. If you're such a plastic fan that you don't even know the facts about your own team, then I suggest that you google stuff before demonstrating your ignorance in future.

second article in two days by Sol Campbell - if all he is going to do it bitch and moan he should write for the Mail.

dammit - too slow for an edit.

I take it back Sol, but the article i read in the hard copy yesterday differs slightly from the one on the website. Consider yourself back on a verbal warning, currently.

It wouldn't surprise me if the decision to call up kelly rather than rio had something to do with the fact that hodgson also needs cover at right back after seeing jones's woeful attempt in that berth against norway - not even close to being good enough.

Aye you may well have a point but I would still say Richards and Rio and send Jones home TBH - he is not good enough yet IMHO and he is a squad player who is not good enough in any of his chosen positions [ RB, Defence or Midfield] to actually get on the pitch

Indeed Phil Jones is learning from Rio at club level right now, but yet at national level he has been selected above him. The situation is nuts and will look even more so should England collect any further injuries in defence.

Its hard to see this as anything other thna the effect of Terry being charged with a racist offence. Granted Roy may view him as a better player than terry but the omission is down to the incident.

Beggars belief the FA are lecturing the hosts on racism whilst having a squad member and former captain currenlty charged with a racist offence - you could not make it up.

Terrible article that by Campbell - the Guardian not doing him any favours there.

Kelly, Ability and potential. And attitude.
Easily a better right back than Jones (who I see as a class CB) and possibly than Johnson too. The season before last, he had the position at Liverpool ahead of Johnson and forced him to LB or the bench. Unfortunately injured for a lot of this season, but regaining fitness towards the end and pushed his way back into the team at RB again, moving GJ to LB and dropping Enrique. And his first position through the youth and reserve sides is CB, just plays RB so well too.
He's a seriously good defender, will be even better for the next tournament, and would run through brick walls for his team and country. There is no chance he will let England down. That's what's important, not media hype generated by a "twitter star".

However, Micah Richards is also a top RB and covers CB well enough too. He's as good, and physically stronger, and IMO should be in the team. Only problem is his attitude (or maturity?) isn't there yet and his toy throwing from the pram has left him on the naughty step when he should be establishing himself as a major force at an international tournament. Very good, but not as good as his own hype.
As for terry, he's good with Cahill. As a partnership. On his own merits, and for pure football reasons, he's not good enough as 1st choice anymore. And there's a better "partnership" ready made and waiting.
England defence I'd have: Hart, Cole, Lescott, Jaglielka, Richards.
with: Baines, Jones, Terry, Kelly/Johnson as back up.

Edit:
TBH, really surprised that Hodgson has taken Glen Johnson as 1st choice too. At Liverpool, they didn't get on and it was common belief that GJ was on the way out, not a Hodgson style player. GJ is more of a wing-back than a full back. Better going forward, and very handy in a 4-5-1 with a couple of def-mids to cover (ala Benitez' teams) but caught out by being too adventurous in a Hodgson 442.

Every one seems to see Richards as throwing his toys out of the pram, when the reality seems to be that he has been rejected so many times when he deserved to be in the team that he couldn't keep lifting himself to go back for more rejection.

And with his goals and assists this season, should have been chosen ahead of Downing on the wing, never mind in defence.

DD Long list of partisan Man u fans agreeing with me including Robbie Fowler

Still struggling to let it go JY. 😐

Poor Rio. 🙁

Both past their best, both ar**es IMO, both should have been left alone. On balance, Woy picked the wrong one though - but who knows what pressure he was under?

But, does it matter? We aren't going to win.

But, does it matter? Terry is likely to insist on lifting the trophy regardless of who wins

Then the Ukranians hail him as their newest bestest leader so he doesnt have to come back and face criminal charges. win - win

For me Ferdinand is capable of a decent run but he lacks consistency / reliability (and is on the cusp of being in terminal decline). It would be no surprise if he lasted less than 90 mins of this tournament. SAF said as much and that is clearly what Roy has in mind. Terry is going the same way but is the more consistent / reliable of the two but he has massive baggage. It’s a awful predicament for Roy as there is a strong case not to take either but there is quite a gap in top level experience to our next best centre backs (arguments on what RF/JT ever achieved accepted).

The strong decision would be not to take either but that would leave you open to a press mauling. Lescott is a solid player as is Jagielka, that would be my first choice pair. I would take Richards as first choice right back and also providing CB cover. He was injured but has been fully fit / rested for a while now, massive error not picking him or persuading him to make himself available. He has a lingering doubt hanging over him which is underserved, whenever he has had a solid run in the team he just gets better and better – injuries and an outstanding squad have not helped his progression but he has to be one of the best young defenders available.

Phil Jones maybe as fourth choice centre back and it is already looking pretty weak, Anton Ferdinand and Titus Bramble start to look like options!

As above massive selection headache for Roy, I am fully behind his decision not to take RF (and I would also leave out JT as well) but he is getting all sorts of idiots criticising him and the press are having a field day.

Still struggling to let it go JY.

Woy picked

At least you have stopped trying to present it as pro Man u view, now I can let it go

But in your case, it is JY, clearly not others (thered apart). You addressed me, I did you the justice of a reply. That's "not letting go"? You even tried to drag lodders in, even though he hasn't contributed to the thread. When are you going to get over someone other than Rio being picked? He and Terry should both be at home, whatever about Ferdinand's playing ability or fitness (which is clearly questionable), he'll always be tainted as a drugs cheat for me (though, some have forgiven him for that and he served his ban. As for Terry, well I think he's a **** as do many but that doesn't seem to count for much these days.

I agree with you on Richards and can understand why you'd be anxious to show your non-partisan support for him. 🙂

FFS, Rooney's going and England may well be out by the time he gets to play anyway.

Rooney will only get injured or sent off anyway. I wouldn't have taken him due to mouthing off at the camera at the last world cup.

As said before, none of our 'stars' are anyway as good as they think they are, and most of them are bloody lazy

As said before, none of our 'stars' are anyway as good as they think they are, and most of them are bloody lazy

Whoa whoa whoa DeadlyDarcy, don't drag me into your argument with Junkyard. You do seem desperate to bait other fans into arguing with you tho. Your response to my post above and the fact that Junkyard didn't address you, his first post quoted Binners and you responded.

As it happens this is nothing to do with club loyalties, in fact I'm glad Rio's not going. My objection is to the FA's tacit condonement of Terry's behaviour and their assumption that football fans are stupid enough to believe that one of the better centre halves in the country isn't getting taken to a major tournament because his form/ability is too poor.

I feel sorry for Hodgson cos yet again the FA have shown themselves and the manager up, as somebody has already said, it's no wonder that a body that can't manage itself but feels it has the right to comment on everybody else's business is so hated throughout the football community.

If it is purely a football decision, then there are questions to be asked about the selection of many others in that squad as has rightly been pointed out already. The whole thing stinks.

thered, my comment was at your reference to the "ambulance chasers". Not looking to bait you at all, despite your biting anyway.

you baiting me then dude

SO i am partisan despite wanting richards, and despite thinking Jones is not good enough , I am not even English its not like I really even care

Your view would seem to be if I think I a Man u player is better than the alternative I am biased. When I say they are not as good as the alternatives I am what ?

I think the majority of commentators agree Ferdinand [ content of character and drug test no show aside *] should be there on merit alone. I assume you dont think sol campbell, Fowler, Van der vaart and others are all pro Man u so it may just be that I have a point and you are just goading/baiting for whatever reason.

*i would say you have a point here but feel I should play the characteristics you had ascribe to me and argue a bit about it …or not

To quote Balotelli Why always me? 😕
😉

i think that the whole fiasco has alleviated hodgson from having to explain why he's only got one left footed midfielder in the squad and even he doesn't look likely to start.

how the **** are you supposed to play keep ball when the only option for half of the midfield is to turn inside every time they have the ball ? this is what will kill us at the euros, not the absence of rio ferdinand.

Having just been watching Newsround - it'll be the traveling that destroys us - 8000 miles for the first 3 games!