[Closed] Firing staff

Got any proof of any of that?

Although if he's been there for less than two years doesn't he have less protection anyway?

Dafuq? Has he been confronted with this, is he any good at his job. Shirley a written warning if he's not been disciplined before and he's actallyvuseful? Not good behaviour but hardly grand larceny is it?

He ate some chocolate that was for everyone and used some coffee? You're firing him for this?

Seems a little disproportionate as a reaction.... Has anyone talked to him? Maybe tell him to pick up a couple of boxes of celebrations and not eat them?

Love to see you cope in the prison service.

Take him out for lunch and then tell him "NO DESERT FOR YOU"

Thatll teach him

This is either a piss weak excuse to dump dead weight or there's a major shortage of functioning testicles in your workplace.

I'd say he has big one firing someone for that, having had to go down this route twice you need to be water tight with your reasons. Have you done any probationary reviews in the last 11 months raising such things as this?

Sweet mother of god!!

I actually thought sweets, Coffee, dishwasher tablets and any form stationary were fair game and almost a given perk of any job.

The pilfering that went on in the building firm I worked at a few years ago was eye watering........ Not saying I condone any of this however.

None of those issues seem to be in any way work related?

How would you feel if someone went into your locker and stole your lunch. No , its not grand theft auto but its the principle.
My wallet lives in my locker , so where does it end?
yes, its £2 of choclate but its the fact he has gone into my desk, obtained the key , opened the locker, stolen pretty much all the egss that were for everybody and put away because he had all the celebrations and I had to suffer all the moaning from everyone else, and put the key back.
The petty cash tin lives in the same draw as my locker key.

That doesn't sound terribly water tight (which you need to be these days). If you haven't been through your written disciplinary process then you could be up the creek. You better have a lot of proof of all of that (not circumstantial) if you want to fire him for it.

Alternatively, with 11 months service, you would be well advised to dismiss for no reason. You are entitled to dismiss for any reason that is not automatically unfair within the first 2 years of employment and you are only required to provide a reason after 1 year employment.

My wallet lives in my locker , so where does it end?

Was it taken?

How do you know it was him taking the petty cash?

Alternatively, with 11 months service, you would be well advised to dismiss for no reason

You need details of what was discussed during his employment.

Coffee and mini eggs?

I used to work with this lad 😀

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/rugby-news/concerned-fan-stole-127000-rugby-4228586

and before that, I worked with this girl 🙁

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/1283923.lab_technician_handed_threeyear_jail_term_after_partners_drug_overdose/

Take him out for lunch and then tell him "NO DESERT FOR YOU"

[img] ?w=625[/img]

Do you have evidence that he was the one who went into your locker e.g. CCTV footage?

Marmite are hiring.

[img] [/img]

Jesus wept. Give him a bollocking record it and move on. If he does it again after that can him. If you seriously think he nicked the cash then you might have a point but it sounds more of a loose correlation at this stage.

I've had to take people down that route before. I suggest you lay facts on the table first and issue a written warning. There are so many employee protection rights on this that it is risky for the employer to fire without being taking to a tribunal. Sounds like you're in a small company so you might find it easier to get rid of staff. But none the less I'd want to be sure the case couldn't be argued against.

In my sector it takes around 1-2 years (seriously) to build a case to fire someone. Unless they do something stupid like kill some. Assaulting another member of staff might do it, but often not!

Don't underestimate the effectiveness of a good verbal slapping. I turned around one member of staff with a serious of "difficult conversations". Depends if they are good at their job otherwise.

keep the locker key on your person not left in the drawer where everyone knows where it is?

Keep the petty cash tin locked and don't leave the key around.

Talk to him. Do you have proof it was him?

He may well have a COFFEE HABIT or be a CHOCOHOLIC, both are classed as medical conditions as of tommorrow.

Is he left-handed? It's illegal under EU law to fire left-handed people because it's a health and safety hazard

Do you have proof? Are you sure the lad isn't being stitched up? Not necessarily maliciously, just the rest of the staff blaming him for everything as he's the new lad?

How much will it cost to rehire someone else if you do fire him, as opposed to just having a stern word?

I am his manager and as its within 2 years service I can call him into the office , get his keys and say dont come in on Monday.

I would never steal from my colleagues. I dont expect them to steal from me, or each other.

Its the respect thing . So maybe my moral compass points in a different direction to most people. Dishwasher tablets ffs what else??

Oh Im out of bog roll at home , I know I'll just steal a few rolls from work, and a few reams of paper, got some shit stains in my lav so Im taking the toilet duck home as well whilst Im at it.

You should fire yourself for drinking instant bloody Nescafe. Unacceptable... 😐

So maybe my moral compass points in a different direction to most people

For a compass that's usually a fair indication that its ****ed.

I am his manager and as its within 2 years service I can call him into the office , get his keys and say dont come in on Monday.

Good luck.

For a compass that's usually a fair indication that its ****.

😆

quite right on the not expecting anyone to steal but how do you know it's him?

I am his manager and as its within 2 years service I can call him into the office , get his keys and say dont come in on Monday.

I would never steal from my colleagues. I dont expect them to steal from me, or each other.

Its the respect thing . So maybe my moral compass points in a different direction to most people. Dishwasher tablets ffs what else??

Oh Im out of bog roll at home , I know I'll just steal a few rolls from work, and a few reams of paper, got some shit stains in my lav so Im taking the toilet duck home as well whilst Im at it.

Ooohh, listen to you!

Here's a typical prison (true) story.
My mate Sam (well known Scrooge) took a Blue Riband biscuit from a fridge, it had been there on his wing, for ages. (The biscuit not the fridge) He gave it to another mate of mine (Mark) who ate it, then said, 'thanks Sam, but It's not like you to give stuff away' & Sam said, no problem Mark, It wasn't mine anyway, I nicked it out the fridge'

Join the prison service, You'd be fine!

For about 2 days.

I wouldn't have any of that shit. Rummaging through your stuff so he can take stuff thats doesn't really belong to him is not on. Sack him with out a reason, if hes been there for less than 2 years he cant do jack shit.

Have you even asked him about it? Was that your plan? Just tell him to sling his hook, with no real consideration for the facts, other than 'I think he did something that one one else is all that bothered about'?

because 2 of them are drivers and are out driving pretty much all day and 1 of them does not eat sweets.

And the other 2 have had a go at me about the freebies disappearing before they had a chance to get to them, expecting me to do something about it.

There is only 1 person who has neither complained they got zero freebies, or asked where they are.

His work area bin contains most of the celebrations wrappers

maybe i need a new compass , and a stripey top , eye mask and large swag bag. Jeez at least I have something worth stealing , dishwasher tablets aside

I am his manager and as its within 2 years service I can call him into the office , get his keys and say dont come in on Monday.

Cool story bro.

(Seriously, this is a troll post, right?)

Substitute the chocolate covered raisins for rabbit dropings and leave in your locker as a trap.

Or, perhaps a quiet chat about acceptable behaviour in the workplace would be a better idea ...

....over a nice cup of very weak mellow birds coffee (well, mellow birds is the definition of weak) that's tepid and served in a dirty mug with some biscuits (happy shopper cheapo digestives) that have been left out for a couple of days so they are nice and soggy. 😉

You lot are being a bit harsh to singletrackmind. What he didn't mention is that this numpty also set his stapler in jelly. Had his name on it and everything.

There is only 1 person who has neither complained they got zero freebies, or asked where they are.

You?

Get some of these in your locker.

[img] [/img]

And if they go missing, call him into your office and:-

"Ambassador, with these Rocher you are really stealing from us!"

what i have not mentioned is the fact he also unloaded a pallet and packaged suplhuric acid in the ingrediants area and funnily enough the sulphuric acid has found its way into the foodstuff.

I do have to take some responsibility for this as I am his manager and sufficient food safety protocols were not in place.

2 drivers go out all day with their stash of chocolates come back and empty them into the nearest bin. Another guy sees them so complains about not getting any, the new guy has no idea as he's new so says nothing.

I do have to take some responsibility for this as I am his manager and sufficient food safety protocols were not in place.

So you didn't give hi sufficient training? An easy way to win a hearing.

2 drivers go out and do not know the bag of mini eggs is in the building even

It's down to trust. You don't trust him and it's really shitty working in an environment of distrust. To be fair, I'd have had at least one 'difficult' conversation with him before giving him the bullet though.
You'll also feel bloody awful if you get rid of him and the petty theft doesn't stop...

I know this might be a little bit left field, but as his manager, maybe you should start actually doing some managing?

Sounds like you couldn't manage a good sh*t, to be honest.

I have to admit ,Going in someone's locker is a bit of a no no!!

2 drivers go out and do not know the bag of mini eggs is in the building even

They had them in their pockets.

I'm gonna go with guilty as charged but its clear from the segue of every question in the area of previous interventions that there have been none. People make mistakes and do stupid things you can choose the passive aggressive make the problem go away path if you choose or you can do what any self respecting manager would do and show this individual the error of their ways and give them the opportunity to atone for it. Up to you.

They had them in their pockets.

Those weren't mini eggs. It was just a little bit chilly out.

If he's crap at his job, fire him for that.

If he's good at his job then tell him full&frank you're pi55ed off and if ANYTHING like this happens again he's out. Put a warning on his file.

Those weren't mini eggs. It was just a little bit chilly out.

😆

that would be because I have never had to manage anybody before. last job there were 2 of us and we worked together and had mutual respect. I did the planning , he did the execution (s) of the plan, for 16 years.
new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.

His work area bin contains most of the celebrations wrappers

On second thoughts, maybe the prison service isn't for you.

I do have to take some responsibility for this

This would have earned the entire site a safety stand-down and a prompt firing of you, at my place.

Unless that is, protocol was poorly developed for reasons that were not your fault, you lacked the sufficient training to do this or your big bosses failed in their duty to make sure that these things had been done or prioritised. Our site head does a safety walk around every other week. Facilities should have a protocol that means that acids are very very carefully tracked by a chain of custody into the correct storage area, and as far as I know - no one is ever left by themselves when transporting large quantities of acid between areas. Everything is signed by one person and then that is verified by another present person.

Take some proper HR advice first. Its not so easy just to die someone even for something that seems pretty nailed on and you want to be sure of your grounds.

For example even a verbal warning has to be in writing and can only stay on the file for a certain length of time (pre agreed and in the written note of the verbal warning).

An employee has to be given advanced notice of any disciplinary and invited to bring along a representative. You can't simply invite them in the office Friday morning and tell them to do one.

Yes, if they've been with you less than two years they have very few rights but can try and swing a discrimination claim which removes any time bars for example and it can still get unnecessarily messy.

I underwrite employment law insurance and have seen what a mess seemingly nailed on situations have become because correct procedures have not been followed.

Take advice, do it right, avoid shit. ACAS are good to speak to. They're as happy to talk to an employer as an employee and guide them accordingly.

new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.

Are you actually serious?

new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.

It shows.

Ok sensible answer.

Confront him tell him what you believe has happened, also mention the acid incident. Set up some remedial training for the acid and review it at a later date. As for for the mini eggs and petty cash, tell him you have a suspicion it was him give him a chance to replace the cash and buy a good will gesture of chocs. Lay it down next time you'll take disciplinary action if he doesn't correct his ways.

Then speak to your manager and HR on some training for disciplinary procedures.

Listen to Dracs suggestion.

[quote=Drac said]give him a chance to replace the cash and buy a good will gesture of chocs.

Would Quality Street do as a Celebrations replacement ?

No

1 x 25l Jerry can of 5% sulphuric .
All delivery notes to be checked against consignment ,and signed off as checked.
All batch numbers to be recorded on rolling tally sheet with amount delivered and amount of previous stock remaining.

lad just initialed the delivery note and stacked the 25l can with the other 4 on the pallet.
Idiot # 2 opens can and adds a couple of Ltr to 3250L of product. its all foodstuff/ foodsafe and would probably be absolutley fine but I cant risk it

Listen to Dracs suggestion.

Nice to see we agree on something. 😆

Would Quality Street do as a Celebrations replacement ?

Milk Tray seems apt.

There are so many employee protection rights on this that it is risky for the employer to fire without being taking to a tribunal.

Singletrackmind, this is a really good website to help you through issues like this:

[url= http://acas.org.uk ]acas.org.uk[/url]

Don't list to Jambalaya there's more reasons than discrimination. Whistling Blowing for one which is kind of what this is.

It doesn't really matter what he has stolen - it's the fact he's gone into your drawer, found the key to a private locked locker, and taken something from it. I wouldn't be happy at all if he was my employee and if I had proof it was him he'd be gone.

Take some proper HR advice first. Its not so easy just to die someone even for something that seems pretty nailed on and you want to be sure of your grounds.

How old is he?

Fionap, he doesn't have any proof.

If you were in my team OP and you shoved an authorisation to recruit form under my nose with this story your card would be well and truly marked.

This is a minor behavioural issue that needs addressing through the proper channels but to cause the disruption to the business of recruiting another bod over some minieggs is bullshit.

its all foodstuff/ foodsafe and would probably be absolutley fine but I cant risk it

Adding sulphuric acid to something you're planning to sell for people to eat?

all i have to say is, you touch my lunch, i break your fingers, or nose.
8)

Are you 100% sure the four "low grade manual workers" aren't stitching you both up?
Maybe they aren't happy you're their new manager.
Other wise ,I'd listen to Drac.

You're not actually taking responsibility for him at all if you sack him for minor things which breach your personal values - that's more like victimising him than taking responsibility for it yourself.

Taking responsibility would be treating him like an adult and having a face to face chat with him about all the issues and giving him right to reply - and listening to it properly, without judgement and without prejudice. And I mean listen - say absolutely nothing whilst he talks...

Show him some leadership and you may find him an awesome employee. Sack him and you teach him that managers will use their power irresponsibly, which will become his long term problem he's likely to carry around for years and hold his career back.

I'm afraid it shows that you lack management experience but I'll give you this - you've thought enough about it to come on here and engage with those who've criticised you for your approach. That suggests you are actually thinking about the negative consequences for this lad of your actions - do more of that before you sack him please.

Oh, and have a word with your employer about giving you some management training. I've seen so many weak managers over the years wreck people's work lives because the manager was given line management responsibility without any training... so please make this your employer's responsibility to support you too.

Good luck... I'm sure this isn't pleasant

You honestly sound like a complete nightmare to have as a boss
I would do stuff to wind you up aswell .

You honestly sound like a complete nightmare to have as a boss
I would do stuff to wind you up aswell .

THIS!
You wouldn't last 5 mins in our place!

I would love to have you as my boss. SRS every day would be a gift.

If I were the chocolate boy Id be asking you to prove I've done anything? Can you? If you can't and he's as twisted as me you are going to be in a bit of bother. 😈

I'll add.

The first time the route I chose that ended up being a dismissal case had a huge effect on me too, it didn't go away over night dragged up now and then, even this year it was used as an example case in some training. It's horrible knowing what an effect it has on the individual, their family as well as how it shatters a working team. Some will take your side others will hate you for it, think long and hard before you do it.

It gets easier though.

Bencooper
Its a food grade food additive to reduce water ph from alkaline to neutral.
Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of all beer has it added in a very low % , you just dont know about it, till now.
The ph has dropped from 3.9 ( within target guidelines ) to 3.6, below target.
Coca-cola is even more acidic , coming in at aroun 3.2ph which is another reason why its bad for you

So he's in allsorts of trouble? Perhaps some kind of refresher course would do the trick.

SRS = Supplementary Restraint System?

Yeah but that was your fault for not training him. You were firing him for mini eggs, remember?

I know I'm being harsh but you ARE going to have to explain this to your manager.