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Affordable? That would wipe out my big house and loads of bikes budget
$35,000? I'll pass thanks.
Polstar FTW.
Uk price to be released. Expected to be £40,000+. Cheaper yes but a long way from affordable for most people.
Meanwhile.
Estimated between £19k and £22k
That Model 3 is gopping, at least VW considered the styling...
Hyundai kona Kia Niro
Hyundai kona Kia Niro
£33k for a Kia 😲
I had a go in one in California a couple of weeks ago.
The interior is a bit drab but it's an amazing vehicle.
It just keeps accelerating. Put your foot down and it just keeps getting faster (until I chickened out!).
The regenerative braking is nice as well - I know it sounds lame, but not having to move your foot from the accelerator in order to slow down is strangely liberating.
And the self-driving - well, I didn't have the courage to try it for more than a few seconds but I can see it being a huge help on long journeys assuming you trust it.
I'd definitely be tempted to get one.
Put your foot down and it just keeps getting faster
My god that's inspirational.
Once they get the range sorted out, i'd happily switch to electric, but not at 35k I wouldn't
at least VW considered the styling…
Will it actually look like that when it comes though? Because, assuming this is actually it, it doesn't look the same shape
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as this
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Although the more I look at it actually it's not far off.....
It's almost as if they were disguising the looks until releasing that photo.
Really hate the massive tablet on the console on this one, it looks stupid.
Price doesn't seem bad our Kia soul EV is about £28,000 less incentives.
(We lease)
Put your foot down and it just keeps getting faster
My god that’s inspirational.
Yes, perhaps I shouldn't become a motoring journalist after all.
With an old-skool internal-combustion engine you have to keep changing gear to keep it in the band of revs the engine can cope with. There's no gear change, no discernible change in torque, it just keeps accelerating.
Yes, perhaps I shouldn’t become a motoring journalist after all.
With an old-skool internal-combustion engine you have to keep changing gear to keep it in the band of revs the engine can cope with. There’s no gear change, no discernible change in torque, it just keeps accelerating.
I knewvwhat you meant I have a hybrid there's no hesitation between gears but that might be a DSG thing too.
Won't do 9000 miles on a charge and tow an elephant I'm out.
phil5556
Member
Although the more I look at it actually it’s not far off…..
Yeah, swap the wheels and you're about there (if you take off the camouflage)
I am quite seriously thinking about getting an electric scooter thins summer - £1,200 to buy, 30mph top speed, 70km to a charge, no "road tax", nothing to really fail on a MOT and supposedly around 1p/mile motoring
I like the look of the Golf.
Thats a proper vehicle for the masses right there.
Thank God someone had the foresight to make a car for the people eh 🤪
Will there be any alternatives when that comes out?
Doubt it.
Still, someone has to build a charging infrastructure and we'll all be buying one...
Just saying.
"I knewvwhat you meant I have a hybrid there’s no hesitation between gears but that might be a DSG thing too."
No - its an electric car thing. I have both and the full electric is very different to drive.
Will there be any alternatives when that comes out?
Doubt it.
Nissan, BMW, Kia and Renault for starters.
Why can't anyone build one of these things with a decent boot? Estate version of the VW thing unlikely I'd imagine - a major barrier to anyone with children / dogs / hobbies...
I fancy a Sono Sion, it being covered in solar cells is a gimmick, but it's the first car with built in inverter tech so you can now power your house vehicle to home whenever the car is at home. So either you can use off peak tariff Lecky or if you're fortunate enough free Lecky courtesy of your employer or local supermarket. You can also directly plug in household appliances for camping trips and outdoors DIY. All the seats incl front fold down flat so you have a mini van.
I can't see me ever owning a saloon car again, but the Tesla model Y might interest me.
The regenerative braking is nice as well – I know it sounds lame, but not having to move your foot from the accelerator in order to slow down is strangely liberating.
FWIW the Nissan Leaf does that too, and it's not £40K.
I think they pretty much all do, it is pretty cool.
"Finally a decent affordable E Car
Model 3"
While on paper they look competitive they fail to meet expectations in reality. The interior looks great in photos but in real life poking it about it feels poor quality for the price. Recent buyers are compiling lots about reliability and quality control. Have they fixed their supply issue yet? Or are there still large delays? The self driving stuff is not robust enough. And that price when it lands in the UK will be too high for your average Joe/Jo.
"I knewvwhat you meant I have a hybrid there’s no hesitation between gears but that might be a DSG thing too.”
No – its an electric car thing. I have both and the full electric is very different to drive."
Dunno ... might be a DSG thing?
I had a loan of a BMW 535d GT with an auto box for a few months and that had a similar feeling when accelerating at low to mid pace. It would tick up the gears and you'd barely feel the gear changes and the drop in acceleration and engine revs. Dunno what box it had CVT or BMW's version of DSG? At faster pace it would rev higher and although the changes were very smooth you could = feel the engine revving up and down the rev range. But at low paces it just felt like one smooth phase of acceleration.
Yeah, swap the wheels and you’re about there (if you take off the camouflage)
The zebra print makes it look a bit taller and squarer, but I think it might just be the camouflage having it's desired affect.
Until they figure out how to do on street parking/charging I am out.
Well the Tesla has about the most environmentally friendly batteries going. Energy dense, reduced cobalt, etc. If you are going for and environmentally friendly vehicle, spend the extra and get a good one.
I want a go on one of these.
I think BMW use old skool torque converter gearboxes, albeit very good ones. Which suggests they would be super smooth with 9 gears to keep the rev drop minimal between gears .
Could be wrong though, it's hard to get that sort of info beyond auto/manual.
Will there be any alternatives when that comes out?
Doubt it.
Nissan, BMW, Kia and Renault for starters.
Sarcasm isnt one one of your strong points is it Drac.
Nice car though.
Looks like a decent design shift in motor vehicles, I’m all for that..
Sarcasm isnt one one of your strong points is it Drac.
No, I don't have a reputation for that at all.
I've been driving an "affordable EV" for nearly 3 years now! (second hand i3 😉 )
I’d like to be able to seriously consider an EV for commuting when I need to take the car but charging infrastructure in Sheffield is woefully bad and as I live on a main road without any off street parking, within a week I’d have an expensive car with no means of charging parked up out front other than trailing a mains cable across the pavement. Without local authorities taking seriously the investment needed to encourage people to convert then I’m afraid people will stick with their ICE’s.
Is a second-hand i3 affordable? Very interested in an electric car, then I look at the price and soon lose focus - I’ll just stick with my oil burner for now.
But, there’s always a threshold when it makes economic sense to swap...
Why can’t anyone build one of these things with a decent boot? Estate version of the VW thing unlikely I’d imagine – a major barrier to anyone with children / dogs / hobbies…
You just have to hire an estate car any time you want to do anything remotely convenient with a car.
Why can’t anyone build one of these things with a decent boot? Estate version of the VW thing unlikely I’d imagine – a major barrier to anyone with children / dogs / hobbies…
2 kids and a dog, managed two UK hooidays with them in a Golf GTE.
I have to put the seats down in my 5 series to get the dog crate in.
Is a second-hand i3 affordable?
One just down the road from me for £15k on a 15 plate with 50k on the clock.
Peugeot e208. Estimated to sell for between £20,000 - £23,000. Due on sale later this year.
With an old-skool internal-combustion engine you have to keep changing gear to keep it in the band of revs the engine can cope with. There’s no gear change, no discernible change in torque, it just keeps accelerating.
My Mrs had a Merc 320CLK like that with a 7 speed auto box.
You've missed the boat for affordable i3's i'm afraid to say!
I bought mine back in the middle of 2016, when no one wanted one, and my ex-demo i3, with just 368 miles on the clock cost £16k. Today, it's worth...... £16k 😉
The ePug is a good looking car i think (subjective i know, but i think it is....)
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romolyolly
Member
Well the Tesla has about the most environmentally friendly batteries going. Energy dense, reduced cobalt, etc. If you are going for and environmentally friendly vehicle, spend the extra and get a good one.
Tesla’s batteries are made by Panasonic as are a great many other EVs.
Oh and the Model 3 is lovely in the Metal. They were all over San Diego when I was there in January.
charging infrastructure in Sheffield is woefully bad
As a casual visitor I've actually found a few free ones.
There's a scruffy car park near the city hall that has two chargers. Free.
As a casual visitor I’ve actually found a few free ones.
There’s a scruffy car park near the city hall that has two chargers. Free.
I think they might be the only two council provided chargers in the whole of the city centre though! The rest are either at hotels or in a Q-Park.
Tesla’s batteries are made by Panasonic as are a great many other EVs.
Yes but they aren't the same. Teslas cost more to make for a start and have more range. And are more recyclable.
There’s no gear change, no discernible change in torque, it just keeps accelerating.
Twin clutch multi speed auto boxes like you find in mercs beemers and the like do that.
As do CVTs. Drove one and absolutely hated it.
Twin clutch multi speed auto boxes like you find in mercs beemers and the like do that.
They still vary in torque across the rev range even if there's not a lurch when changing gear.
Some electric cars had gearboxes as they still offer just the same benefits as they do in a petrol engine, that is they multiply the torque to give acceleration. Means you can build the car with a much smaller motor, which then limits the top speed.
Tesla and other more modern electric cars do it differently, use a motor big enough that the limiting factor in acceleration is the grip and a gearbox becomes redundant, and as a by product gives more top speed.
They still vary in torque across the rev range
Well yeah. So do electrics, just less. It was a discussion about the feel though.
Some electric cars had gearboxes as they still offer just the same benefits as they do in a petrol engine, that is they multiply the torque to give acceleration.
Not exactly but I take your point. They still do make electric cars with gearboxes but you probably won't see one on the street anytime soon.
Tesla’s batteries are made by Panasonic as are a great many other EVs.
Fanboi drinks the marketing cool-aid shocker!
Have I missed something happen8ng with the exchange rate recently....
$35000 how do we get that to £40000 in the uk?
Have I missed something happen8ng with the exchange rate recently….
$35000 how do we get that to £40000 in the uk?
Americans quote prices without sales tax as that's done at a state level, so add 20% vat. Then import duty, a couple of grand to ship it, and a bit of R&D for right hand drive to recoup over smaller markets.
That and possibly pricing in for a post Brexit 'fluctuation' in the exchange rate.
I buy small city type cars for around £13K and I find them affordable. If an electric version of the same car was available for the same price I would have bought one but the electric versions of the same car seem to be around £10K more expensive which is why they are not taking off. I am convinced that if a £13K electric car was available a lot more people would buy one and one day I guess they will be available. We know they would be within a year if petrol and diesel cars were banned...
Tesla’s batteries do NOT have greater range. They have larger, heavier packs.
The model 3 has 50, 62 and 75kwh battery capacities, with each step adding 100kg to the weight.
The claimed range from the 50khw car is 220miles, but real world tests have it at 195-200. Pretty close. My i3 with a 33kwh pack under similar conditions will do about 150miles and that’s carrying the REX which is 120kg or the equivalent of my family. A pure BEV i3 would do better.
Also remember that unless you can find and use a Supercharger station. The rate at which you can fill the pack is the same as both the Leaf and the i3. So in a 45m rapid charge window an i3 will completely replenish its pack. The Tesla will only get to about 60-70%. So in essence, Range is the same.
Friend of mine has his name down for a Tesla 3. He's always leaving the house with a flat battery in his phone, all his friends think the same thing is going to happen with the car.
darthpunk
Member
Once they get the range sorted out, i’d happily switch to electric, but not at 35k I wouldn’t
I think they have range pretty much there now with the latest cars, the big barrier for me right now is choice/availability and, like you, purchase price.
Also, even though visiting public charging would hopefully be fairly rare for me, from what I've read the infrastructure is a bit woeful. I'm fine with planning a longer journey with a 30 min break, but not if there is loads of potential for it all to go wrong. People blocking charging bays to use as parking spots, all the bays occupied, charger breakdowns not sorted quickly, you need a multitude of cards and phone apps to access the network, so with a phone app you are adding another layer of potential issue. Daft stuff like Ikea Leeds chargers are underground with no phone signal, but you need to use a phone app to use them. A minor point is hardly any of them are under cover, so you are likely to get soaked if any faffage is required.
At the end of the day, when there is purchase price parity with ICE cars, it'll be a no brainer for most and quality charging infrastructure will quickly follow (it's not like you are building infrastructure to handle highly toxic explosive liquids).
I buy small city type cars for around £13K and I find them affordable. If an electric version of the same car was available for the same price I would have bought one but the electric versions of the same car seem to be around £10K more expensive which is why they are not taking off. I am convinced that if a £13K electric car was available a lot more people would buy one and one day I guess they will be available. We know they would be within a year if petrol and diesel cars were banned…
Zoe is just over £13k via a broker and after grant etc. Very well specced for a car of that class too. Battery lease is on top of that (from £59pm) but unless you’re comparing to a diesel doing long eco runs it should be cheaper than fuel. Or buy with battery included for about £19k and have minimal ongoing costs.
[i]I am quite seriously thinking about getting an electric scooter...nothing to really fail on a MOT[/i]
Except for tyres, brakes, lights, bodywork, mirrors, instruments, damping and number plates etc :). You've just dropped the emissions and exhaust and perhaps the odd oil leak/leaky fuel tank 🙂
Or buy with battery included for about £19k and have minimal ongoing costs.
Not bad but still not really £13K is it (and £13k is a top end city car). The thing with small city cars is that the MPG is so good these days that the fuel cost won't be that much more than electricity cost each year.
Like I said, if petrol/diesel vehicles were banned from sale we would soon see an influx of £10K electric vehicles from all the current manufacturers of cheap cars.
Sat in a model 3 in the King of Prussia shopping mall in Philadelphia this week. It’s a nice car. But not a hatchback. More like a mondeo size. It’s small but not EU small! I’d like something a little more euro practical to be honest.
But things are changing and that’s a great sign. At £25k I’d seriously consider buying a new electric car next time, as opposed to my usual buy used for £10-12k.
In the US the 3 requires no service (including brake pads) for 100k miles. So factor service costs into the overall cost equation.
[ that VW looks ace ]
Twin clutch multi speed auto boxes like you find in mercs beemers
Don't think those cars have dual clutch boxes do they? Though it was just Ford and VW?
the King of Prussia shopping mall in Philadelphia
I've been there.
I am quite seriously thinking about getting an electric scooter thins summer – £1,200 to buy, 30mph top speed, 70km to a charge, no “road tax”, nothing to really fail on a MOT and supposedly around 1p/mile motoring
mopedy fun
That does seem cheap, not sure I'd be happy with a 30mph limit though. The 75mph one that can be ridden on a CBT would be tempting if only it had bigger wheels (like a PCX) and didn't cost so much.
The Super Soco electric motorbikes look pretty good. Latest version can do 60mph, 60 miles range, £4000.
https://www.green-mopeds.com/super-soco-tc-max-174-p.asp
The BMW scooter looks ace but not cheap. I looked at other eScooters and nothing ticks the right boxes at the moment. The little Yamaha had a range of 14 miles. Range not speed is what a scooter needs.
That’s an affordable car?
price parity
But what is that?
Once you factor in reduced
- Fuel costs
- Various tax effects
- Servicing costs
- Whatever other differences there are between ICE and EV in either direction
then price parity is not an ICE vs an EV at the same purchase cost.
Then on top of that there is the extra you would be willing pay to achieve a reduction in your contribution to emissions etc. That's not zero. Unless you're Donald Trump.
price parity
But what is that?
Well, if you hadn't conveniently missed out the word before "purchase" as in purchase price parity then it should be a bit clearer. Believe it or not I actually chose that wording in the expectation that it would be obvious that I meant initial purchase price, not cost of vehicle over it's life. Hey Ho,. 😉
The BMW scooter looks ace but not cheap. I looked at other eScooters and nothing ticks the right boxes at the moment. The little Yamaha had a range of 14 miles. Range not speed is what a scooter needs.
That depends how far your want to go (not being flippant btw). Agree that a 14 mile range is extremely low, maybe it would be ok for a 10 miles/day commute assuming it was garaged/charged each night (I wouldn't though). My 5 mile each way cycle commute has a section of 40mph road in it, no way I'd want to ride something with an engine/motor that couldn't do the speed limit of the roads of want to use it on (I've seen a few near misses with people overtaking mopeds - probably no worse than cycling but...)
Mate has a scooter for getting about town.
Cost him 800€ second hand and costs about 6€ a week in fuel.
You'd have to be doing a lot of miles and keep the thing for years and years for an e-scooter to make sense.
It's not really a relevant comparison to compare a second hand petrol scooter to a brand new electric one though. You could say that about a Tesla and a 15 year old Focus... A better comparison would be say a new PCX 125 @£3kish Vs that electric one @£4k. Servicing and other running costs should be far cheaper on the electric one. No idea on insurance/residuals/reliability though. Just saying...
Servicing and other running costs should be far cheaper on the electric one.
I think the point being made that the cost of running a <125cc scooter is absolutely tiny. 150mpg and half a bottle of oil every 12 months, it would take months just to buy the extension lead!
Also you're not comparing like for like, a £3k Honda is competing against that £12k BMW. A £4k electric bike is going to be more like the <£1k unknown brand mopeds from China.