[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8044860.stm ]Ferrari being arses[/url]
Unbelievable......... just because they can't make their car go quick enough. What a bunch of wakners.
What do you expect. With out them there is no race.
Is that sarcasm in your voice mt?
Opening salvo is all, it makes for a good headline. F1 needs Ferrari just as much as Ferrari need F1
I'm no great fan of the Scuderia but they have a point
F1 will lose an awful lot if the bring in budget caps at that level
Red Bull and Toyota out too....
Do you really want to watch a race with two "classes" of cars?
I reckon they'll end up with a cap round 120M for next year, then ease it down after that. Of course Ferrari would take their engine supply with them which would shaft TorroRosso as well, though they're in trouble anyway with next year's rules.
However, Ferrari's president Luca di Montezemolo, head of FOTA, has warned it would create a two-tier championship that could be "fundamentally unfair and perhaps even biased".
Welcome to the world of Force India, Jordan, Minardi etc etc etc Mr di Montezemolo.
Now pick up your toys, put them back in your pram and concentrate on getting your team to develop a car which can consistantly finish races in the top 8,,, after all Brawn GP can do it in 3 weeks I'm sure Ferrari can manage it after god knows how many years experence.
No sympathy for the prancing [s]showpony[/s]horse here.
F1 is great to watch again after a decade of Ferrari processions.
[i]Do you really want to watch a race with two "classes" of cars? [/i]
Like say; 3 litre NA, verses 1.5 litre turbos? , or cars with active suspension vs cars without?, or cars with wings vs cars without? etc etc etc etc etc....
Toy / Pram interface shocker?
It's all part of the game. Max and Bernie come up with their laughable £40m, two tier, winner takes it all plan, Ferrari and others threaten to pull out. Berni/Max call bluff. Ferrari go nuclear. Most of the other teams are behind them I guess but don't have the cajones power to say so.
nickc - Member>Do you really want to watch a race with two "classes" of cars?
Like say; 3 litre NA, verses 1.5 litre turbos? , or cars with active suspension vs cars without?, or cars with wings vs cars without? etc etc etc etc etc....
The difference then Nick was that the teams were free to innovate. This latest proposal would effectively halt/slow down that. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing, not some cut-down formula. A cap seems sensible, but surely has to be £100M or so?
Look; ALL the teams are unhappy with the rule changes, not just Ferrari. However saying Toyota want to pull out, people just go "Mleh, so what?", Ferrari say it, everyone suddenly sits up and takes notice.
Perhaps they'll put the 40M figure down as a [url= http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=45849 ]'clerical error'[/url] that slipped into the new rules by mistake, like Bernie's mad medals plan.
The $40 million cap doesn't help the likes of any of the established teams (Williams, Mclaren, Ferrari), but it may encourage smaller manufacturers like Lola and so on to come on board. The days of unlimited spending and unlimited testing, and third teams are gone I think every-one accepts that, but as you say the limit probably needs to be higher.
Just opening gambits, Ferrari won't quit F1
coffeeking - Sort of but cos things will go on but Ferrari do bring the name to the races and they are milking it.
ah well, let em walk out. I wouldn't miss em in the least. Manufacturers/teams come and go regularly, what's the big deal?
Ferrari earlier today...
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they make all this stuff up to pump some life into a terminally dull advertising parade round a race track
its just as scripted as american wrestling
Personally I would love to watch a formula that said:-
1. here are the crash tests you have to pass.
2. here are the tracks you will race on.
3. your budget is 40-50-60-whatever million.
4. you can only patent stuff that goes into production cars (in some form) within say 3 years (to guarantee trickldown).
5. now piss off until next year and come back with something mindblowing.
6. before you get any ideas at the back, yes, you D.Dastardly, it is still a non-contact formula.
May well have it's flaws but surely the easiest way to legislate something is to keep it simple, if you can do anything, then it cannot break the rules.
let's have some cars that have 6 wheels and a bloody great fan again, super stringent crash tests to keep it safe(ish) possibly related to top straight line speed (slower cars can be lighter=better cornering)
BUGGER IT, IT'S GETTING COMPLICATED AGAIN!
Right, rule 7. is that there are only 7 rules.
Done, anyone in?
Actually, reading that back, I would love any set of rules that had rule 5. in them 🙂
I'm no Ferrari fan, far from it, but I wonder how much less the teams would have to spend if the lunatics that run the asylum stopped making big changes to the rules every single year, without any apparent listening to the teams who actually make it what it is?
To be honest I'd hate it if Ferrari dropped out - its quite amusing when they do badly..!
I think its pathetic..Prams, toys, corner the whole shebang..Its a shame they hvnt seen this as an opportunity, with necessity being the mother of invention some really good low cost ideas could have come out of it.
Too be honest, the only difference I see with F1 this season is the cars look a bit silly and a change in which team dominates.
Ferrari can't afford to go.
It's their only form of advertising/PR.
Well they've only gone and done it!!....*
[url] http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5318108,00.html [/url]
(*well they've said there going to do it which is a long way from actually doing it!)
That's just the same story as started the thread mm
5. now piss off until next year and come back with something mindblowing.
I would love that 😆
Who gives a monkies, it's just a little old car manufacturer stamping their feet until they get their own way and another schumacher to drive for them
Its a shame they hvnt seen this as an opportunity, with necessity being the mother of invention some really good low cost ideas could have come out of it.
Well, not really. As a rule there's a difference between ideas that are low cost to produce, and ideas that didn't cost much to come up with in the first place. Think of drugs- they might not cost much to produce individually, but they sure cost a lot to invent (generally). I'm sure that the cost of each car to manufacture is minimal in relation to the cost of developmednt of the design and components. What are you going to do- put the engineers on minimum wage for instance?
As others have said, F1 is about innovation and psuhing the envelope in design- there's plenty of other lowish cost formulas out there for those that can't find the budget necessary.
I have mixed thoughts, if Ferrari want to leave, then f-ck em, who cares, on the other hand if all the other teams feel the same way then f_ck Max and Bernie, they should just go and create their own formula.
A sudden, massive budget cap is unrealistic and will slow down development from this point in time, immediately after some rule changes. It'll be impossible for anyone who gets it wrong to play catch-up and we'll end up with whoever manages to get it right first time ruling the roost for a period of years. We don't want that.
Scuderia Ferrari carry a lot of weight and they're free to wail as much as they like!
Re:
Brawn GP can do it in 3 weeks
what do you think Honda were developing all last season? It's public knowledge that they had quit development on that season's car early and were concentrating on the following season. Which does make it interesting that they then quit.
Interesting how a £40 million cap would affect the end of the season.
Team A is winning but has blown all it's £40 million. Frugal team B still has money left, develops the car and starts beating team A. Now team A has no more money to spend and so can't develop the car and can't compete. Or maybe team A will sack a load of people and spend the wages on the car to make it competitive again. Then re-employ the workers at the end of the season.
Seems like this is another Max/Bernie ploy to stir things up so they keep the reins of power.
So no Ferrari or British Grand Prix and a championship decided on medals. How soon before there is only one GP in Europe as the Max/Bernie show chase the new money in the Far East/China?
take away all the rules, suddenly you've got an incredibly interesting season coming up. We'd see some positively mind bogglingly clever stuff going on. And loads of crashes and planes with 4 wheels and submarine cars and things, it'd be ace!
I think it would fascinating to see what could have been if there were no rules. Wonder how fast they'd be going by now
I used to like the 2 classes in Touring cars. Always lots of overtaking and action with two championships as well. Ace stuff. Mind you, they did keep crashing into each other....
The holding company for the F1 is massively in debt.
Look at this way. Charge tracks/venues the same as previous, charge media companies the same $ for rights as last year etc and then give the F1 teams less. The arguement? Well the teams have lower outgoings now so warrant less. Net result? Pulls the holding company out of the red.
If you read deeper into this you'll see its about the holding company being in massive debt- changes everything. F1 teams have always risen and gone bust. Nothings changed there.
Just one link to CVC- can find more if you delve. Basically the F1 holding company is over a billion in debt.
Interesting huh? You buy into a 'business'. What do you do? Raise prices/lower ....'outgoings'? Mosley wouldnt want 'F1' to go tats up- then all the teams would leave so alot of leverage/divide-and-conquer is going on....
Time for F-Zero me thinks
do what you want to the cars BUT they only have 300 (random figure pulled from thin air)litres of fuel per car ,per weekend.
as some one said above , we need 6 wheels, fans ,active aero etc etc ...... this should be the cutting edge of everything car and motorsport related.
Don't forget that McLaren have said they dont wish to discuss it in public, and will be discussing it with the other teams ahead of the deadline. (ie they dont want to publically rattle FIA's cage)
Toyota and Red Bull have also said they wont lodge and entry.
Williams say they will - they have no other choice. they are only an F1 team, they dont race, they dont exist. (that and that they are designing the chassis for the new Formula 2, so dont want to upset Bernie and Max)
Personaly i think they should bring back Class B rally cars, there were some really insane cars built for that.
Simon
There does need to be some sort of budget cap to prevent the historical 2 or 3 team domination (this year has been a refreshing change) but 40m is too low. F1 is about innovation as much as anything, if you want a fairer playing field then go into Indy Car racing instead. I think the testing ban needs to be reviewed to, sure it adds an element of the unknown when you're testing new parts on Friday and racing on Sunday but it also stifles development and engineers/designers take less risks.
Don't forget that McLaren have said they dont wish to discuss it in public, and will be discussing it with the other teams ahead of the deadline. (ie they dont want to publically rattle FIA's cage)
Agree. In business you dont enter discussions then report (ongoing) what is being discussed to the media do you?
They've stopped the racing becoming a 100% procession this year- why are they tinkering even further? See my CVC-post 😉
Plus, if Mosley really does care about recession/prudence.....he realises that alot of F1 staff/supplying companies-linked will surely be made redundant due to the cost-cutting?
I think Ferrari have a point. These rule changes are stupid, can't be arsed with F1 this season.
I think Ferrari have a point. These rule changes are stupid, can't be arsed with F1 this season.
I haven't watched one race this season.
Lets not go the way of group B rally cars, they were banned for a very good reason.
Just the same reasons that mean we now have rules in touring car racing, "back in the day", when everyone was wearing their rose tinted glasses, teams used to acid dip the roof sections of cars and build roll cages out of exhaust pipe!
Time for F-Zero me thinks
WIPEOUT would be even better 🙂
I think this is laughable - Ferrari this season seem to have moved back to the pre-Schumacher/Brawn/Todt years, and Luca Montez(whateverhisnameis) can't see how they can rescue this season. As they have unlimited funds but restricted testing this season, next season would be the opposite and they/he realises it'll be "Same Sh*t, Different Day", unless Brawn rejoins and Schumacher comes out of retirement.
Don't forget this is the "team" that let Irvine loose the championship with a couple of dodgy tactical decisions.
but it also stifles development and engineers/designers take less risks.
Plus i think it makes it harder for new, young drivers to get a seat, as they cant get the seat time during the season like they used to be able to, so teams having such limited time available will go with the old hand who can set the car up quickly.