[Closed] Fat (sorry obese!) person blames hospital for poor care....

TJ - you seem out of your depth.

Hyper thyroidism can cause large weight gains as can various tumours of the endocrine glands.

However, that's beside the point. The woman in the article is a fat whinger.

ginormomunter

ROFLMAO!

Dr RS****

Did you read what I wrote? How common is [b]hypo[/b]thyroidism ( not hyper surely)that is untreated nowadays to the point they get morbidly obese? How common are endocrine tumours?

As I said I am sure there are disease processes that lead to gross obesity ( we are not talking about being a bit overweight) but they are very rare and I have never seen any on my 30 yrs of healthcare.

How common is hypothyroidism?

"Dr Thierry Hertoghe, President of the International Hormone Society estimates that, in his opinion, thyroid deficiency is 20% to 50% (20 - 50 people in every 100) of a standard population."

All info found here
[url] http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/index.html [/url]

But you might want to read a few books by Barry Durrant-Peatfield to get a broarder understanding of the conditions.

they are very rare and I have never seen any on my 30 yrs of healthcare.

Personally I know 5 people who have had weight problems due to issues with their Thyroid or Endocrine system

Hippocratic oath

da-doom-tish!

beautiful pun and in context with fatties, lots of cheers and applause!

[img] [/img]

Roper - read what I wrote

how common is [b]untreated[/b]

FFS - why can no one read what is clearly written? Theree is a huge difference between a bit overweight and morbid obesity / bariatric.

There must be a number of obese people who have medical issues that make them overweight.
However, the vast majority of people who are obese are in that state because they are either lazy, greedy, or both.

I'm greedy and a bit lazy. I've always got that nagging hungry feeling. My parents would never let me leave the table until I'd cleared my plate. My mother's family are all on the chubby side so I could be genetically predisposed to weight gain.

So how am I not waiting for gastric band surgery? Cos when my trousers get a bit tight then I have to resign myself to eating a bit less for a while. I find it quite hard, but then again I wouldn't want to use Red Rum's MRI machine either.

For the vast majority of fatties, the answer is easy. Get off your ar$e, eat a bit less and stop expecting society to make allowances for your idleness.

[u]ougar - I really doubt that one. What illness does she have? or like many[/u] obese people is she in denial about how much they eat.

True medical issues that cause obesity are very very rare

I read that TJ.
Also as you [u]Should[/u] be aware, Thyroid problems are not just treated. It can be a long process getting the right balance for each patient. Thie illness can also change or develop over time which can lead to further changes in the treatment. All can be long term.

Now as we are telling each other to read things, have a look at that site. Rather than just a personal opinion, like your argument, there should be enough facts and statistics to help you understand the problems a bit better.

Are you seriously attempting to tell me that hypothyroidism even when treated leads to [b]morbid obesity[/b]?

You simply have failed to read what I said. I don't deny there are medical conditions that cause morbid obesity but they are very rare. So rare I never never seen one.

[b]Properly treated[/b] hypothyroidism will not cause [b]morbid obesity[/b].

Thyroid problems are not just treated. It can be a long process getting the right balance for each patient.

That is proper treatment - getting the doasges right. I am aware - more so than you if you don't understand that treatment includes titrating dosages.

my 30 yrs of healthcare.

That's the second time you've said that, and it's meaningless as it stands. I've got four years experience in the financial services industry; it doesn't make me a mortgage advisor, I fixed their computers.

"30 years in healthcare" could be the receptionist on the front desk or, as I wittily alluded to earler, the toilet attendent. "30 years as a neurologist" or "30 years as a trauma surgeon," however, are wholly different claims.

So, simple question TJ - are you a doctor?

30 years in healthcare, or 1 year repeated 30 times?

There are facilities for bariatric mri in Woodend Hospital, Aberdeen. Any more than about 30" elbow to elbow and a normal scanner is too small (iirc)

The bariatric rooms in my hospital have hoists rated to 450kg!!

I've seen a fair few morbidly obese people with well treated hypothyroidism. Type 2 diabetics on insulin or a fair few of the pills often gain weight. As do most people who are on high dose long term steroids.

I think it impossible to know with any certainty how fat someone would be if a potentially contributory condition had never arisen.

TJ, you are sounding rather arrogant, especially as you are basing the argument of your personal limited experience. Have a look at the links and information and the books. The information and some of the papers are from many leading experts Some even older than so so with a lot more experience and they have specialised. Hopefully you will learn something and the next time you feel the need to prejudge or patronise a patient you might take a moment first

Also 30 years, yes we get that, give yourself a pat on the back.

How dare you come on here posting common sense like that. Shocking.

There must be a number of obese people who have medical issues that make them overweight.
However, the vast majority of people who are obese are in that state because they are either lazy, greedy, or both.
I'm greedy and a bit lazy. I've always got that nagging hungry feeling. My parents would never let me leave the table until I'd cleared my plate. My mother's family are all on the chubby side so I could be genetically predisposed to weight gain.
So how am I not waiting for gastric band surgery? Cos when my trousers get a bit tight then I have to resign myself to eating a bit less for a while. I find it quite hard, but then again I wouldn't want to use Red Rum's MRI machine either.
For the vast majority of fatties, the answer is easy. Get off your ar$e, eat a bit less and stop expecting society to make allowances for your idleness.

[img] [/img]

Interesting that she couldn't be scanned...
I've dealt with [b]loads[/b] of people (ok, about 4 per year) who are unable to fit in the CT/MRI scanner. Our trust has agreements with Marwell Zoo and we use their scanner!
You have to word it very carefully when a patient asks "so I can't be scanned?!", and you reply, "well, yes. In a scanner built for a hippo....."

Also - I'd debate that the prevalence of hypothyroidism is 30-50% of the population... Will look it up via trusted sources (note - NOT wikipedia!)

DrP

Our trust has agreements with Marwell Zoo and we use their scanner!

Out of curiosity, do any of these people make a concerted effort to lose weight once they have faced the reality they can only fit in a zoo's MRI machine?

I would imagine it is quite the wake up call.

Obesity should be seen as a social rather than medical issue- (no fatties in Belsen etc.) However Obesity and the cost of it will floor the NHS. Obesity relatedillnesses like Type 2 diabetes are growing exponentially in the UK, and also increases arthritis/heart disease /hypertension to name but a few increasing the burden of the chronically ill.

Obesity is probably the single most important challenge facing healthcare agencies in the modern world. Cut obesity rates considerably and you will cut long term healthcare costs. However getting these "fatties" to change their lifestyle if nigh on possible as they have so many inbuilt barriers to change and external loci of control.

What's the answer - god knows, but I do believe that Bariatric surgery is probably the way forward, because let's face it , highly motivated people who enjoy exercise don't tend to get fat, and it's really hard to change a layabout.

roper - Member

How common is hypothyroidism?

"Dr Thierry Hertoghe, President of the International Hormone Society estimates that, in his opinion, thyroid deficiency is 20% to 50% (20 - 50 people in every 100) of a standard population."

All info found here
http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/index.html

But you might want to read a few books by Barry Durrant-Peatfield to get a broarder understanding of the conditions.

they are very rare and I have never seen any on my 30 yrs of healthcare.

Personally I know 5 people who have had weight problems due to issues with their Thyroid or Endocrine system

Do you want to link to some actual stats to back yourself up? The link you've provided just goes to the home page and I can't be bothered searching to find out if [i]thyroid deficiency is 20% to 50% (20 - 50 people in every 100) of a standard population[/i] is the crap that it sounds like.

If it is true, then by extension almost half of the people I know would have thyroid problems..........nobody in my family does, none of my closest friends............or maybe there are whole communities with thyroid problems, or perhaps it's just crap.

http://thyroid-disease.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=85

Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield, author of ‘The Great Thyroid Scandal and How To Survive It’ is committed to helping people understand their metabolic illnesses and to teaching them how they may regain their health.

[b]Having relinquished his registration with the GMC, Dr Durrant-Peatfield is now a practising complementary therapist in the field of nutrition.[/b] He will provide full advice in the treatment of metabolic illness and the role of food and chemical intolerances.

He is convinced that with the use of natural medicine and nutrition that full metabolic health is within the grasp of us all.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!! Did someone just whisper 'snake oil salesman'?

Bariatrics- a branch of medicine named after the famous fatty, Barry white.

Patients requiring bariatric assistance can often be found singing" you're the first, the last my everything and never, never gonna give you up" to a burger.

charlie- chill out dude, just because you're a feeder or chubby chaser, doesn't mean the rest of us have to think that making the lifestyle choice to eat yourself to death is a socially acceptable thing to do.

there you go, make assumptions about people and have a pop at them for it. Well done, much easier than actually dealing with any of the points raised isn't. Did you just go straight to ad hominem or did you try think about it it for a bit then find it made your head hurt? You're an idiot, not only because you can't process and synthesize information, but because you seem to be unaware of that failing. Yeah these fat folks are fat and refuse to take any responsibility for it but even you recognise that they are able to do something about it. You however, are stupid, and even when you become enlightened enough to realise what an idiot you are, you will only be hit by the overwhelming realisation that you are not able to do anything about it.

Just in case all those words confused you a bit, here is a simplified version

you stoopid

Cheers

would add a smiley but the conflicting signals would probably confuse you.

IdleJon

I can't be bothered......

That pretty much sums up what you wrote and your ability to debate the issue and I'll offer it the same respect.

erm....charlie if you read a later post you'll realise that I did deal with it as someone who was obese and did do something about it. I also have personal experience of thyroid issues so how about you breathe and relax a little bit as you may do yourself an injury with all that self righteous bile and shite you are spouting.

you sir, are a big hairy knob face and I will have my second deliver my challenge to you.

A duel sir, is the only way to satisfy honour.

Single speeds at dawn!

Just give us a link, my friend!

Don't just give a home page if you are talking bull. We want specifics.

If it is true, then by extension almost half of the people I know would have thyroid problems..........nobody in my family does, none of my closest friends............or maybe there are whole communities with thyroid problems, or perhaps it's just crap.

how many of this group are gay? How many have Chlamydia? How many are Elvis impersonators?

roper - Member
IdleJon

I can't be bothered......

That pretty much sums up what you wrote and your ability to debate the issue and I'll offer it the same respect.

Seems like you were making things up then, roper?

•Hypothyroidism may affect between 4% and 9% of the general population, and between 9% and 16% of people over age 60.

from http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/hypothyroidism/hyo_whatis.html

Of course that may be no more accurate than whatever you were linking to but if you want to get involved in a debate maybe you should insert your brain? And then use it?

In my experience the reason most NHS trusts don't have MRI scanners for [i]cough![/i] those of larger persuasions is because the scanners tend to be utter rubbish and cost prohibitive!

TJ + 1

also DrNR +1

P.S. Had my 30th year med school reunion last week. What a bunch of old farts...
...no bariatrics though!!

erm....charlie if you read a later post you'll realise that I did deal with it as someone who was obese and did do something about it. I also have personal experience of thyroid issues

Hah! Excellent! "I used to be fat and lost weight and i know someone else who was thin and is now fat" Yes, that's dealing with the issues that were raised. I love that your response managed to demonstrate your inability to assimilate let alone synthesize information! Well done!

And well done with the singlespeed challenge too! In a debate requiring intellectual engagement, you try to settle it with a physical challenge! You're great!

CharlieMungus - Member

If it is true, then by extension almost half of the people I know would have thyroid problems..........nobody in my family does, none of my closest friends............or maybe there are whole communities with thyroid problems, or perhaps it's just crap.

how many of this group are gay? How many have Chlamydia? How many are Elvis impersonators?

Which of those has any relevance to the posting of invented statistics?

(Did you know that 78% of the general population are Elvis impersonators? http://www.elvisontour.co.uk/ )

If roper can back his stats up, then I'll gracefully admit to my family and friends being weirdos in NOT having hypothyroidism.

Which of those has any relevance to the posting of invented statistics?

Only that if your faith in cited statistics requires that they are replicated in your social group hence

then by extension almost half of the people I know would have thyroid problems..........nobody in my family does, none of my closest friends

then you'd expect some to be gay, have chlamydia and Elvis was thrown in for fun.

charlie, if you want an intellectual debate I'm more than happy to oblige.

I'm very disappointed that you have backed away from a duel however, perhaps you lack the courage of your convictions?

How about a new duel?

may I suggest wordsearch (ages 6-9) at dawn!!

I might just be able to cope with that if i go slowly and you explain the big words of more than two syllables to me.

nobber 😆

So wait....Elvis was gay?

.....probably wouldn't have fitted in a MRI scan either towards the end.

[img] [/img]

charlie, if you want an intellectual debate I'm more than happy to oblige.

Go ahead then, lots posted earlier for you to wok on

I'm very disappointed that you have backed away from a duel however, perhaps you lack the courage of your convictions?

Which convictions would they be? and how would they be proved or disproved by a bicycle race?

wok on

ace fattist parapraxis 😀

still not addressing the issues?

hmmmmm, what?

lol!

sorry charlie, would love to carry on the banter, unfortunately have nasty serious life s**t to deal with 😥

I'll find you on another thread and we can have a proper intellectual bun fight when my mind (what little there is 😉 ) can deal with it.

big snogs

😀

CharlieMungus - Member

Which of those has any relevance to the posting of invented statistics?

Only that if your faith in cited statistics requires that they are replicated in your social group hence

then by extension almost half of the people I know would have thyroid problems..........nobody in my family does, none of my closest friends

then you'd expect some to be gay, have chlamydia and Elvis was thrown in for fun.

And a quick mental survey shows that they are probably representative for those things - at leasy the ones I'm polite enough to know about.

But not for up to 50% hypothyroidism. Obviously we are special....or as I've said, the stats given are crap.

In Utrecht (Nederlands) they send you to the Vet School if you don't fit in the normal MRI.

It would be interesting to see if waiting in line behind a horse has any effect on your desire and ability to lose weight?

Mind you at 215kg her backside is probably as big as the average nag.

There aren't that many large animal MRI around as well.

FACT: some really fat people WORKING everyday.
FACT: some skinny people sitting DOING **** ALL everyday.

FACTs are ace!

FACT HUNT

yes indeed lol!

What a great thread. The woman voluntarily phoned round the zoos and still avoided the fact that she eats too much. Then people defended her. That's pretty ridiculous even by STW standards.

It's not her glands or big bones or slow metobolism, you only get that big by being lazy and eating far too much. It's the same as drinking too much engine oil or injecting too much bleach into yourself. You know it's wrong, nobody would defend the latter two examples there, stop being an arse about it.

tazzy you've had me splitting my sides on this one once again. chapeau

you only get that big by being lazy and eating far too much

[i]and you only get depressed by not cheering up enough, and you only become aggressively violent by not controlling your temper, and you only end up stupid by not studying hard enough. [/i]

All these things happen by not doing anything about it. HTH.

How do you end up being CharlieMungus then?

TSY-It's a little light relief to the serious shite in the world. I'm glad to be of service 😉

Oh yes, now i see how simple it is.

oh hold on, what if not seeking help or doing anything about it is part of the problem?

Charlie we're always here to talk your issues through with you....

yeah, that's what tazzy and others say too.

ed..

still not addressing the issues taz?

Cheers Tazzy, the comedy is what most come here for I reckon. If a thread is upsetting me, I take action... and go find a different thread to dick about on 🙄

yeah,i find that useful when dealing with racists too, just let them get on with it eh?

fatties walk the streets among us, internet know-it-alls are much harder to spot in daylight.

yeah, that's what tazzy and others say too.

hmmm sound's a bit serious for me, I normally just make knob gags and post daft pictures, but if a serious talk to uncle tazzy can help be my guest.

still not addressing the issues taz?

actually **** that it's off topic

Have every sympathy with you taz, just makes it seem a bit stranger that your respite from those troubles is to have a pop at other folks.

For this particular problem, having to phone up a zoo to ask for help, is a dead give away that you've reached a crossroads in your life. Anyone who can't see that, well as you pointed out, it's a stupidity problem.

Do you know anyone that thick? Really? Do you know anyone who would phone a zoo for an MRI scan and still think it's someone else's problem?

Or do you know people who are so obtuse that they would phone a zoo for an MRI scan and still think it's someone else's problem.

One of these people need help. The other needs abuse. I'm guessing this woman, who can walk and talk, is bright enough to distinguish between these groups. She knows perfectly well that when she had to phone a zoo that things had gone just a little too far. But her arrogance told her to just keep on pushing the issue.

Or do you still think she doesn't understand the situation she finds herself in?

Being fat and race aren't really the same thing though are they?

Anyhow... I've just re-read the thread to see what 'the issue' is... I can only assume it's the bit about whether we'd like everyone to be homogeneous blah blah blah...

4 pages of post indicate to me that we wouldn't; having differences to take the mick out of seem to give people enjoyment.

I'd say it's given you some enjoyment too Charlie.

I think she might have a problem, psychological, emotional, which prevents her from reflecting on her situation or perhaps addressing it.

charlie, if anything I've done has PERSONALLY affected you I'm awfully sorry. If however you are feeling vicariously outraged on behalf of people that can't be bothered to not put a deep fried mars bar in their mouth then, in the nicest possible way, cock off

🙂

Being fat and race aren't really the same thing though are they?

The analogy is only drawn because when someone says something which you think displays ignorance or a lack of understanding, you feel it incumbent upon you to confront those opinions.

charlie, if anything I've done has PERSONALLY affected you I'm awfully sorry. If however you are feeling vicariously outraged on behalf of people that can't be bothered to not put a deep fried mars bar in their mouth then, in the nicest possible way, cock off

I'm not outraged, i just think you are wrong. I think you have a simplistic view of the problem of obesity and i would like to try to change your outlook, so that there is a bit more understanding in society.

I have a costume and everything

don't need this shite

You've gone n bloomin ruined that now

Good!

[i]I think she might have a problem, psychological, emotional, which prevents her from reflecting on her situation or perhaps addressing it. [/i]

I think you're half right. I think she has problems which make her eat too much.

After that, she's just an arrogant individual who deliberately ignores her situation because it takes effort to deal with it. She's lazy. And that's not a psychological disorder, it's simply one of those attributes that distinguish good people from bad ones. She's not bad because she's fat, she's fat because she's bad. All the fat people I know (and choose to know) are fat because they push too much food down their gullet and don't exercise enough and they admit this. I'm sure if they found themselves phoning a zoo for a health check they'd consider it a wake up call and at least try and do something about it. The first step is admitting you have a problem. From the story it appears she doesn't believe she has one.

That sounds like a compromise I can deal with, though on a different day i would take issue with the polarisation of "good people from bad ones".

Sure, eating less or exercising more cures fatness, but that's a bit like saying drinking less cures alcoholism or any of a range of analogies. It's a problem she got herself into, but so is HIV/Aids. I just think it is a bit more complex than some posts here seem to suggest.

I"m floating about, watching samuri float out the large person. good for him.

idlejon,

I’ve posted a link to Thyroid UK and a link to a book specializing in thyroid treatment. If you want to see any of the figures or papers they are there on the site. If you can’t be arsed to read then them then I or anyone else can help you. You are being pretty stupid to argue something you’ve not read, clearly those facts don’t stop your fingers banging away.
You say Barry Durrant-Peatfield’ treatment is snake oil. Based on what? Where are your facts? What IS his treatment and what do you know about it? It’s strange; you don’t seem to be posting any facts at all, just your (probably drunken) small opinion.
Oddly the people who have been helped by him, and others similar to him, would disagree with your opinion. Why let first hand experience get in the way of your opinion?

Sober up, read the links and maybe you will be in a position to try to debate. It probably wont help your poor debating skill but it will at least provide you with some information to the subject you are trying to argue.

roper,
As far as the snake oil salesman is concerned, among other doubts, I'd be wondering about the motives of anyone who gives up a career in medicine to take up one in complementary therapy (sorry AND nutrition). Especially when they show no altruistic motive in doing so:

There will be an increase in consultation fees from January 2010. The cost of an initial consultation will be £150, with the follow-up fee increased to £70.

You've obviously got your own reasons for believing in this man so I think I might end on this post.

Having found the link that you couldn't be bothered to supply I'm still no wiser as to why the learned Dr thinks that rates of hypothyroidism are so high. An initial scan shows no references to support his 'guesstimate'. Still, he IS the expert, although he does have a vested interest..

Btw, I have a slight interest in this as my thyroid levels were checked a few years ago, after a long series of virus-type illnesses. My levels were found to be normal so my reading on the subject ended at that point.

I do find it amusing that you refer to my 'poor debating skill' when all you've done is sidestep and insult while I've been asking you to address the issue.

CharlieMungus - Member
I think she might have a problem, psychological, emotional, which prevents her from reflecting on her situation or perhaps addressing it.

Couldn't think of an appropriate knob joke.

IdleJon

I know what his fees are and how long a consultation takes. I also know an Endocrinologist and he charges the same. I’m not sure what your point is?
I also know what Dr Peatfield checks, how he does it and why too. I know what he recommends and why certain nutritional supplements are licensed or labeled the way they are. I have also spoken with Dr Peatfiel directly about thyroid treatments.
As I said in an earlier post, five close friends or relatives have been diagnosed with Thyroid issues, not necessarily by Dr Peatfield, the usual GP visits then Endocrinologist then Dr Peatfield for most. He is the one who has the best results, he is also the one who made the most thorough checks on people who have suspected Thyroid problems. This is not just because he charges £150 for the initial consultation, as I said about I also know of a private Endocrinologist who charges the same.
I have also spoken in depth about thyroid issues with endocrinologist in Spain and the UK as well as GP’s in Span, Gibraltar and the UK. In both private and public sectors.

All of the links I provided are there to be read by anyone. The problem last night was you were very keen to label people, “like snake oil” without knowing what the person has said, what the treatment is and why it is done. You did say yourself you couldn’t be bothered to find it.

The figures I posted last night were not from Dr Peatfield , as was mentioned in my post, They were from Dr Thierry Hertoghe who is “President of the International Hormone Society, which is the third largest hormone society in the world with over 2,300 physicians as members” also in the link I provided.

As far as the debating comment goes, last night your first post was insulting and derogatory and you continued to slur and insult for a while. I would rather not squabble on a forum though and I did take some cheap shots myself, so I apologise for them ( to TJ too). Clearly it’s a heated topic. I'm not making excuses for my insults but have witnessed some of the horror caused by illnesses like these.

On a last note, if you do still have any suspected thyroid issues, get them checked out as thoroughly as you can, [u]through all options[/u], and then decide which is best. It can be a simple illness or an obscene one, the sooner it can be monitored and treated the better for everyone.

Ah, the last bastion of acceptable discrimination.

What about Essex girls? 😆

What, like being a thieving gypsy bastard?

Now that sort of comment will get you banned! I made reference to violent lawless gangs who are of no fixed address and got banned! The misguided STW mods mistook this for racism and when logging into STW got the message "You are banned for 48 hours you nasty ****ing racist". It's a shame that people don't understand that discrimination can be wholly different from racism.

As for this woman. I'd suggest she stopped bleating, lay off the pies and when slim enough, go back and have her NHS funded scan!

The trouble with a "do gooder" society is that there is no differentiation between those who are behaving acceptably and those who couldn't care less about anyone but themselves!

The result is frustration caused by the blatent injustice felt by those who do toe the line! In the end, bad leadership has terrible consequences for everyone.