[Closed] Fat people to be incentivised to loose weight

You're suggesting they should close a few?

Got to make room for the Subways.

If its cheaper to incentivise people to lose weight than keep treating their ailments, or perform surgery, then surely its a no-brainer?

(here you are love, rather than give you this gastric band operation that costs the NHS £10k, we'll pay you £500 for each stone you lose and £500 per year if you keep it off)

everyones a winner?

In the meantime - that Orwell was a clever bloke:

[i]N The miner's family spend only tenpence a week on green vegetables
and tenpence half-penny on milk (remember that one of them is a child less
than three years old), and nothing on fruit; but they spend one and nine on
sugar (about eight pounds of sugar, that is) and a shilling on tea. The
half-crown spent on meat might represent a small joint and the materials
for a stew; probably as often as not it would represent four or five tins
of bully beef. The basis of their diet, therefore, is white bread and
margarine, corned beef, sugared tea, and potatoes--an appalling diet.
Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like
oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter
to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it
would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do
such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on
brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less
money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A
millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an
unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of
the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say
when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to
eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is
always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. Let's have three pennorth
of chips! Run out and buy us a twopenny ice-cream! Put the kettle on and
we'll all have a nice cup of tea! That is how your mind works when you are
at the P.A.C. level. White bread-and-marg and sugared tea don't nourish you
to any extent, but they are nicer (at least most people think so) than
brown bread-and-dripping and cold water. Unemployment is an endless misery
that has got to be constantly palliated, and especially with tea, the
English-man's opium. A cup of tea or even an aspirin is much better as a
temporary stimulant than a crust of brown bread.
[/i]

OMITN, sorry to hear that.
Let us know if there's anything we can do to help - we're not far away.

Junky trouble with saying stuff like "veg cost less than maccyd" is that buying the veg is only one part of it, what if your on a pre paid meter on your gas and the choice that night is gas for cooker or gas for heat? What if your oven doesn't work, what if your kids won't eat the food you've bought, what if you don't know what to do with it? What if you don't have time?

At maccyD its warm, the foods hot, kids will eat it. I can see how it starts looking like an option

I'd happily see a substantial tax on sugar and a corresponding subsidy on vegetables. It's going to happen sooner or later and in decades to come we'll look back on this period and be amazed that we allowed a bottle of coke to be sold so recklessly cheaply, and to children too.

I think that scenario explains a tiny percentage [ if any] of the customers within a macy D's

Like many things the solution is easy but ,you are right, the implementation is the issue.

what if your kids won't eat the food you've bought

Of course they wont if a protest leads to McD's.

Its complicated in how you get folk to eat healthily but , in general, healthy food is not actually expensive.

Junky trouble with saying stuff like "veg cost less than maccyd" is that buying the veg is only one art of it, what if your on a pre paid meter on your gas and the choice that night is gas for cooker or gas for heat? What if your oven doesn't work, what if your kids won't eat the food you've bought, what if you don't know what to do with it? What if you don't have time?

Buy fruit and veg that don't need cooked?
Apples, orange, bananas, melons, lettuce, peppers, onions, peas, etc etc?

Even considering cooking cost a 1kg bag of ASDA SmartPrice potatoes is 69p. I reckon you could easily cook that and still be paying less than the equivalent volume of french fries at McDs.

But as I said above, poverty is a not the biggest factor here, the whole population is slowly wheezing towards obesity.

seosamh77 - Member
I'm fat(about 5 stone +) because I enjoy food [b]and I'm greedy too[/b], no other reason!

I'm happy in life!

I used to be a fat knacker (coincidentally about 5 stone +) and for the same reason as you. I managed OK health-wise in my 20s and early 30s but it eventually took its toll with the classic 'bad back' 🙄

You may be happy now, you may not later in life when the heath complications kick in!

OMITN, sorry to hear that.
Let us know if there's anything we can do to help - we're not far away.

Not much you can do, but thank you for the offer.

Junky trouble with saying stuff like "veg cost less than maccyd" is that buying the veg is only one part of it, what if your on a pre paid meter on your gas and the choice that night is gas for cooker or gas for heat? What if your oven doesn't work, what if your kids won't eat the food you've bought, what if you don't know what to do with it? What if you don't have time?

Steve77 - Member

I'd happily see a substantial tax on sugar and a corresponding subsidy on vegetables. It's going to happen sooner or later

I wish I shared your confidence. Theres absolutely no sign that it will ever happen at all. Quite the reverse. The food industry is a vastly profitable corporate juggernaut, with a massive lobbying budget. And it wants things left exactly as they are, thank you very much.

When the government wanted to bring in nutritional labelling on food last year, it got in such champions of public health as Mars, Nestle, PepsiCo, Premier Foods, Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda, and Morrisons to basically write the policy for them. As a result, nothing has changed.

Do you see that changing any time soon? I certainly don't

seosamh77 - Member
I'm fat(about 5 stone +)

Unless you're a baby, 5 stone isn't fat. I'm 13.5 stone and I'm not fat. Are you a baby? If so you're a very very clever little fat baby, posting on an internet forum, oh yes you are!

Jambourgie - Member
I'm fat(about 5 stone +)
Unless you're a baby, 5 stone isn't fat. I'm 13.5 stone and I'm not fat. Are you a baby? If so you're a very very clever little fat baby, posting on an internet forum, oh yes you are!

What happens if the government makes you fat?
I've put on 5.5 stone due to shitty medication handed out by the nhs. It does help me mind.
Do I have to pay per ounce gained?

I'm so glad the monthly fat thread has reared its judgemental head. For the full house we still need "aeroplane seats", "eat less, move more", and "fatties smell".

So, knock yourselves out. 🙄

Not entirely sure where this thread has twisted and turned to in usual fashion.

The point wasn't to be a fatty bashing thread, it was more about surely there are better ways to spend money to improve health of everybody (not just fat people) than give it to people when they drop a stone or two.

Don't HR constantly hold the line that financial rewards aren't a long term incentive?

So once said person has lost sufficient weight they don't get any more 'rewards' what happens? Likely they will get annoyed, depressed and eat more.

Vat free gyms/bikes and sugar tax make much more sense.

what is the difference between a homosexual* and a gay ? Just curious.

I think the first includes the first and the third is kinds of it's own category.

*that is of course if you buy into the dichotomous model of gender and orientation

Gawd.. Im suprised they dont charge smelly fatties more on the airplane seats.. must cost a fortune in extra fuel. Or maybe get them running on treadmills to help the plane takeoff

surely there are better ways to spend money to improve health of everybody (not just fat people) than give it to people when they drop a stone or two.

I'm not sure - might be quite an effective approach - maybe they should do a study.

Oh they did. And you moaned about it.

Oh... how opportunely timed. Does anyone want a pork pie? Due to the usual over ordering of food for client meetings, there has now a whole tray of them got plonked on the desk next to me. They're the really nice ones from the local bakery. And a load of really nice buttes too

Bacon and brie?

Anyone?

I'll have to eat the lot otherwise?

Then I'll never fit in an airline sea.

And more Africans will die.

😥

Nothing like a nice dichotomy with your coffee in the morning CharlieMungus.

I'm not moaning, I'm debating the merits of the report, which somehow appears to have been deemed I'm fat bashing?

If you think that's moaning you should probably stop reading 90% of the chat threads on here....

Theres some quiche too. And chicken wings

Anyone?...

Regarding the 'fat-bashing',

The problem here is, whilst it may be [i]relatively[/i] straight forward to analyse obesity as a trend, you cannot then just automatically apply any findings to every overweight person you meet.

People are different, and may be overweight for different reasons. And yes of course, being a lazy fat knacker with a cake habit is probably very common. I have no doubts that the prevalence of increasingly sedentary lifestyles along with widespread availability of cheap convenience foods is a major contributor to the current obesity "epidemic".

But that's not the whole story. As a couple of random examples: I know someone who's gained weight recently after sustaining a knee injury which prevented them from getting their regular exercise; and I've recently watched a friend turn alarmingly rapidly from being a triathlon-bagging racing snake into a blimp of a man due to contracting a potentially terminal illness. So next time you're thinking of trotting out the "too many pies, mate?" trope, don't be too shocked if you get an answer of "no, steroids and chemotherapy."

As with many things, it's Not That Simple and the solution isn't a one-XL-size-fits-all Daily Mail headline.

no veg at all then Binners?
Why can I never eat the free pile of food?
Cries into his hummus

Unfortunately, vegetarianism hasn't reached this area of East Lancs yet JY. They may eat you if you tried to explain it as a concept

Sausage roll?

No?

I won't tell anyone

They're very nice

no veg at all then Binners?
Why can I never eat the free pile of food?
Cries into his hummus

I've just eaten a delicious Portuguese custard tart.

As you were.

The pork pies are now all gone.

Sorry 😳

*burps*

Unhealthy food/cheap. I think this is really about buying the family sized ready made foods from supermarket budget labels - fatty/salty/tasty (to some).

I have wondered why those poorer people with gardens don't grow veg more - some do but many don't. Would education help or would this just be another chore to make them hate life? Growing veg isn't a middle class thing but many grow veg not due to financial reasons so what's the motivation?

Charlie mungus I think you're right 🙂

So it's people who have the same bits and like to rub them against people with same bits

And

Happy people

Cool

Edit must learn to type...

mudshark - Member
I have wondered why those poorer people with gardens don't grow veg more - some do but many don't.

Ah, ok, this solves the mystery of why you're so uptight

Could also be the reason for the child obesity epidemic mind, no produce for the weans to plunder! 😆

I wasn't a fat kid! 😀

I have wondered why those poorer people with gardens don't grow veg more - some do but many don't.

Its because of the wabbits

[img] [/img]

I wish I shared your confidence. Theres absolutely no sign that it will ever happen at all. Quite the reverse. The food industry is a vastly profitable corporate juggernaut, with a massive lobbying budget. And it wants things left exactly as they are, thank you very much.

When the government wanted to bring in nutritional labelling on food last year, it got in such champions of public health as Mars, Nestle, PepsiCo, Premier Foods, Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda, and Morrisons to basically write the policy for them. As a result, nothing has changed.

Do you see that changing any time soon? I certainly don't

With no prospect of the budget deficit going away and the government running out of things to cut, taxes will have to keep going up, and 'sin taxes' are the easiest to raise. We'll get a tax on unhealthy food because it'll raise so much money. At the very least we'll see VAT extended to more foods.

I wish you were right fella. But I think you're massively underestimating the influence of corporate lobbyists. When I say that the government basically asked these people to write their own policy, this is literally what happened. Hence nothing at all changed

Same thing with the proposal for a minimum unit price for alcohol. It'll never happen. Too many corporate vested interests paying too much money into politicians pockets, to preserve the status quo

binners is correct the industry did write the code and decided that a traffic light system of
red = bad
Amber = careful now
Green = as much as you like

was both too simplistic and confusing for the general public to grasp.

Part of the link between mental illness and being overweight is the medications that some people have to take - they really bang on the weight. There are obviously also other medical reasons for becoming overweight, and there's poverty, but all of those can't explain away the size of the obesity problem in the developed world, and the toll it's taking on people's health.
I must admit that I don't fully understand the "junk food is cheaper" argument. I suspect that junk food is less satisfying despite being high in calories, and so some people may eat more of it to get satisfied, which then costs more.

I think this is a great idea, incentivising fatties to lose weight... crisps are getting expensive.

I must admit that I don't fully understand the "junk food is cheaper" argument.

Junk food is [i]easier.[/i]

For the great unwashed, they either can't or won't cook, so microwaved rubbish it is.

For the less workshy, we're now in a situation where both partners have to go out to work to make ends meet, so there's no-one at home to spend two hours cooking every evening. The last thing most people want to do after being out of the house for twelve hours straight is start chopping veg.

The only way round this really is to cook in bulk and freeze your own "ready meals," but that requires planning, budgeting, and education. The only other way you're going to get people cooking again is to pass a "one working adult per household" law and double the wage of everyone who's left. That or remove a zero from the value of every house in the country so that people can afford to live without running themselves into the ground. And I can't see either of those being popular policies.

Junk food is easier because it's made of junk that comes from a factory, not fresh food from a farm (ok this is exaggerating a bit).

I knew someone who used to eat crisps and pop for lunch. That's cheaper than a sandwich in her work canteen.

Plus - vegetables are cheap, but PLAIN veg on their own aren't exactly appetising. To make them delicious you either need more money for meat, fish etc or some skill.

To make them delicious you either need more money for meat, fish etc or some skill.

There's millions of vegetarians who might disagree with you there.

You're right though, in that traditional meals like your Sunday roast have meat as a centrepiece; if you can't afford that then you need to replace it with some form of education on how to cook other things.

There's millions of vegetarians who might disagree with you there.

They're wrong and/or deluded. Vegetables are rubbish without cheese or meat. End of story.

Growing your own food would be great if you could grow pizzas and cheeseburgers, but no - it's always veg. Hardly worth the effort.

Yours greedily,

The Great Unhosed.

There's millions of vegetarians who might disagree with you there.

The 'etc' in that sentence refers to protein or something. I doubt most vegetarians would want to eat JUST PLAIN vegetables that have not been prepared into some kind of dish, or served with some other pulses etc that have.

You can make vegetables very tasty by adding a spot of olive oil and lemon juice. Before someone points out the price of olive oil, it's not bad compared with the price of a pint of lager, and lasts much longer 🙂

Can you not just do them an omelette?

You can make vegetables very tasty by adding a spot of olive oil and lemon juice

I did say they could be made tasty with skill, that not everyone posesses. That's my point.

If squeezing half a lemon and throwing a bit of olive oil onto some greens is skill, then I despair!

Of course it is.

Maybe in your middle class world EVERYONE knows about olive oil and lemon juice....

Molgrips, maybe in YOUR PRESUMPTUOUS WORLD I'm middle class, knowing zero about me, and judged purely on the fact that I use olive oil and lemon juice. I'm not middle class, I just happen to hate junk food and have found ways to make vegetables tasty. That requires neither education nor bags of money.

What about deep fried veg in batter? Would the weenyness of the vegetables be enhanced by the super powers that only deep frying can produce?

So the middle class quip was mostly tongue in cheek but perhaps not entirely. One could possible argue that the use of olive oil in itself is a marker of being middle class 🙂

I just happen to hate junk food and have found ways to make vegetables tasty.

You're underestimating yourself, and overestimating some others. There are plenty of people out there who simply can't conceive of actually making anything out of something else. They simply read the label and chuck it in the oven/microwave.

*looks forward to binners' contribution to tomorrow's 'fat Friday' thread*

I'm overweight. Have been since the age of 19/20. Through a normal diet that most people have. Not very sedentary person either. Usually out and about on my bike. My main weakness was always eating from boredom on my days off when I couldn't get out and about or when at work.

My heaviest I was 21stone 5.5lbs. I decided I wanted to do something about it ready for my upcoming wedding. So set my self an incentive to be down to less than 19stone by the time my next Cyclescheme voucher is available then buy a road bike. So with one of our family friends I joined slimming world. The diet at first looked like it could be expensive. Loads of fresh fruit, veg and meat. But when I sat down with SWMBO and looked at the amount we were spending on crap it's actually not more expensive.

I stared slimming world 1st of September this year (when I was at my heaviest). I now weigh 19stone 1.5lb. Just through being more aware of what I'm eating. My Voucher for my new bike has been ordered and should be here at the start of next month. I've got to decide between the Cube Peloton SL or Giant Defy 1.

I now need to buy new clothes. That's the expensive bit.

Lol molgrips, sorry I got a bit grumpy, but I really do have difficulty understanding why people would just choose junk food every time. It's horrible!
I disagree with your definition of middle class, but no doubt many would disagree with mine!

I would have been with the people above saying vegetables are dull on their own if you asked me 6 months ago. I stopped eating a lot of crap and most process foods then, strange thing was that things like veg and fruit started tasting different and I now enjoy them much more. I think a lot of processed food is so laden with flavours and sugars that simpler foods taste really, really dull.

When you stop eating so much processed food with lots of added salt and sugar you can taste other flavours a lot better.