Just read an article about BA bringing forward the demise of their 747 fleet. I understand technology has surpassed them, but it will be a shame not seeing them grace airports anymore. I guess the writing is on the wall for the other operators too. Only been on one once and it was a very comfortable flight. I suppose cargo companies will keep them going for a while longer though.
I used to fly on "Paddy Zulu" (BA's London-Dharan 747) when working in Saudi. I still have the T Shirt - "It's much bigger than you think".
Here's one breaking the sound barrier 😉
Was just wondering if there was a thread on this!
Sad to see them retiring, even if they were getting long in the tooth! Nothing makes you feel quite as rockstar as going upstairs. On a plane. Yes, I know the 380 has upstairs, but it's not as exclusive.
Looking back, my last 747 flight was Philly to LHR. In 2A. A nice way to see them off.
350 and 787 are marvellous to fly, mind you. Dull, but so good in terms of noise, air pressure, fuel efficiency etc. Not as glamorous, sadly!
Here's one going for a burger. Was due to fly on one to San Diego next month but alas...
In 2A. A nice way to see them off
Couldn't resist could you!
I friend of mine in the know said that the 747 vs A380 was a bit of a standoff between Airbus and Boeing in a 'who would blink first' style - basically neither were making much in the way of profit or in much demand but neither companies wanted to admit defeat before the other.
As retro as it gets. Double Happiness is about right tho
😎
747 vs A380 was a bit of a standoff between Airbus and Boeing in a ‘who would blink first’ style – basically neither were making much in the way of profit or in much demand but neither companies wanted to admit defeat before the other.
Sounds about right. C19 has given both of them a slightly easier way out!
Although, I think BA may be bringing 380s back out of strorage, so maybe it's not all over yet.
Flown on quite a few, first time was '85 to Oz with Malaysian, as an 11 year old it was mind blowingly exciting. The more recent flights to the US weren't so comfortable and you could tell they were showing their age. Best of the lot though was top deck on a BA 747 from Perth to Singapore on way home after two years in Oz, days of curtain to the cockpit, mother of all thunderstorms over the Indian Ocean, brilliant.
Whilst it's a testament to a design that works, soon all airliners will just look like larger or smaller versions of the same thing.
3 engines, gone
T-tails, gone
Pointy mach 2, gone
4 engines, nearly gone
(Sure there are examples knocking around if you look worldwide like Air Papua IL-76, OK I made that one up)
3 and 4 engine were only to cover reliability requirements on long haul, new engines are good enough to use 2
T tails, structurally more complex I guess
Pointy mach 2 stuff, too expensive
But yes, airliners have all converged on to the same basic design pattern.
CaptainFlashheart
Member
Yes, I know the 380 has upstairs, but it’s not as exclusive.
It really wasn't exclusive on the BA 380 I was on - I was sat in First (my only time ever) and that was downstairs 🙂
I've only ever flown one 747 - Heathrow to Singapore years ago but something about that shape that just made it feel exciting / special. It'll be a shame not to see them around the place.
Flew plenty of them, cattle class. I for one won't miss those LHR-SIN jumps with no leg space (and I'm only 5'9") or seats that won't recline thanks to the bulkhead they were hard up against. BA squeezed everything they could out of those just to upsell from conditions that would be illegal for livestock.
Last one I flew on was back from Miami, with BA, and it was a complete shed compared to the American Airlines 777 that we flew out on (I think it was a 777 anyway).
Noisy & uncomfortable compared to modern jets.
One of a kind? Absolutely..
But missed? Nah, not really. I used to do LHR/SFO quite regularly & much preferred the Airbus. Soooo much quieter!
I guessing scuttler has linked some photos on his first 3 posts, but I can't see them, not even the grey no-entry sign which sometimes happens at work. Anyone else??
Boarding across a windowless skybridge and heading straight up the stairs made it feel like you'd boarded a biz-jet. Wonderful. Vastly preferable to the cavernous business cabin of an A380 or the awful cattle pen of business on a BA777. Truly beautiful bird, too. Genuinely sad that my Children will never get to fly on one.
Genuinely sad that my Children will never get to fly on one.
Don't know how old your children are, but there will likely still be some 747s in service somewhere in the world for 15+ years
In the true spirit of all aviation threads on here I thought it needed pics.I linked directly to the jpgs but airliners.net must have a cookie mechanism to stop direct linking. Regardless, the photos were these
Sound Barrier - https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Boeing-747-436/979746/L
Burgers - https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Boeing-747-436/1148891/L
Double Happiness Retro Classic - https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Asia-Airways/Boeing-747-436/1005859/L
I'm not sure anyone operates 747 passenger flights from UK now. Maybe Air China have one route? Not an impossibility to fly on one, but the chances are vanishingly small. I doubt any will be operating for passengers by the time either of my kids are adults.
Sound Barrier – https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Boeing-747-436/979746/L
Burgers – https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways/Boeing-747-436/1148891/L
Double Happiness Retro Classic – https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Asia-Airways/Boeing-747-436/1005859/L
Great photos. Kai Tak approach in a 747 was something my Father got to experience. Very jealous.
Are there any good documentaries available on the streaming services about the 747, I recall a couple of programs last year but cannot remember what they were called. I meant to show them to my daughter.
BBC ran one called Jumbo: The Plane that Changed the World. It was very good but doesn't appear to be on iPlayer at the moment. I expect BA's announcement may precipitate a rerun though.
Before CV Virgin were flying 747 400s out of Manchester to Florida. Haven't seen one since.
I have wonderful exciting memories as a child, of seeing the first 747 come into 'Ringway'. We lived under the flight path. The sky went grey and the noise of this beast was amazing.
I have wonderful exciting memories as a child, of seeing the first 747 come into ‘Ringway’. We lived under the flight path. The sky went grey and the noise of this beast was amazing.
I remember when I was a kid probably early/mid eighties when Qantas were flying 747s into Ringway and they had an open day where you got bussed onto the tarmac from car park and then up the front steps, through and out the back. Mega!
Then there was the time (probably same era) that NASA sent their 747... OMFG! I got a day off school for that.
No way that 747 is going through the sounds barrier like that. It is creating a loud of condensation in the low pressure area though.
I'm going to miss them. I grew up with my dad flying 707, 747 and then 747-400 so I've spent plenty of time on them.
We lived in SE London as kids and the area is on the flight path for Heathrow. 6pm every night was Concorde, that was always epic. But back then, everything flying across the Atlantic was a 4-engine for ETOPS reasons. So Jumbo's were a really common sight. There was something magical about seeing a massive plane seemingly moving so slowly but staying up there.
My Dad has flown on them loads. I've only ever been on one on the ground.
Genuinely sad that my Children will never get to fly on one.
What, so they could say "weren't old fashioned planes a bit rubbish compared to modern ones, Daddy?"
Boarding across a windowless skybridge and heading straight up the stairs made it feel like you’d boarded a biz-jet. Wonderful. Vastly preferable to the cavernous business cabin of an A380 or the awful cattle pen of business on a BA777.
This is true. Especially in one of the easy entry window seats. 62A/K, 64A. Those window lockers for storage, and as a booze shelf. Perfect!
However, for the majority of passengers, down the back, the 380, 350 and 78s are much, much better.
Are there any good documentaries available on the streaming services about the 747, I recall a couple of programs last year but cannot remember what they were called. I meant to show them to my daughter.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p041byzm/tuesday-documentary-jumbo
Very old one but interesting.
If you have National Geographic channel, keep an eye on that, they do loads of really good documentaries on all sorts of subjects but aviation features quite highly. And as @Tallpaul says, if you can find that Jumbo: The Plane That Changed the World, it's brilliant.
Edit: it's on Youtube:
What, so they could say “weren’t old fashioned planes a bit rubbish compared to modern ones, Daddy?”
Then you take em to Bristol or Manchester to see Concorde and watch their faces fall off (until you go inside and they say “weren’t old fashioned planes a bit rubbish compared to modern ones, Daddy?”) 😉
No way that 747 is going through the sounds barrier like that. It is creating a loud of condensation in the low pressure area though.
Yeah soz may have missed the smiley off. Point is it's a cracking picture of a BA 747 in a blink-of-an-eye pose that is more apt for a US fighter jet hooning past an aircraft carrier.
747 isn't 'rubbish' compared to modern aircraft. It's not as efficient and the way the global airline network has evolved is no longer the right tool for the job, but at the end of the day you can put the same interior into a 30 year old jumbo as you have in the latest 787/A380/A350 and that is the product that the passenger feels and experiences.
In fact the jumbo is still the fastest flying passenger aircraft going and other more modern aircraft have to move out of its way during flights.
Sad to see them go but nothing lasts forever and the big jumbo's are operating in a network that doesn't play to their strengths. Only a small number of airlines can make the big jumbo's work, like Emirates and BA, but they are standing down their older less efficient aircraft post covid.
Before CV Virgin were flying 747 400s out of Manchester to Florida. Haven’t seen one since.
Luckily we went upstairs out, and down stairs back to Barbados last Autumn. A much better experience in the Virgin plane than the BA one with a very tardy interior we found ourselves on to Vancouver in 2018.
One for the kids to remember they loved being upstairs on a plane, and we have photos of them in the Pilots seats at the controls with hats on at Grantley Adams.
Flown LHR-PHL dozens of times. I always try and ride the Jumbo out. In January I checked the date of retirement of the one I was on, October this year. They’ve just brought forward their plan, but not by much.
Had a great chat with the purser in his “office” under the stairs. Crew loved them.
I once flew Osaka to Tokyo in an ANA 747, I mean it was part of a longer trip, but it must have been one of the shortest scheduled flights for a 747, it wasn't a stop-over or anything, that's just what it did, flew mostly Japanese Business guys from Osaka to Tokyo and then came back again.
It took longer to get on the plane than it too to fly it never really levelled out, it went up, it came down and that was about it. As part of a pretty surreal 2 days in Japan for a returning back-packers with 3 cigarettes and AUS 50c to his name it still stood out. Even though I'd been bumped to 'Business Class' for the whole trip, that was the one and only time I got to go on the top deck of a 747.
I did Austin to LHR last year upstairs in the 747 and it was ace. Proper bucket list as if never been upstairs in one.
Not a passenger carrying derivative, but the NASA SOFIA 747, is something of a technical miracle.
A former girlfriend’s father was a NASA infra red astronomer who designed an instrument on the telescope. He was everything you’d hope a NASA boffin would be.
I met them cycling in Oregon ten years ago. He was in his late seventies then and he rode his bike every day. One of his Thursday breakfast and biking buddies was the Nobel prizewinning inventor of the laser.
Ed had a second bad accident crashing whilst riding following a suspected heart attack. He’s been in hospital since the beginning of the lockdown. Hoping he pulls through
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/SOFIA/overview/index.html
There's a few on the runway at Cardiff ready to be decommissioned
Flew on a BA 747 to Denver a while back, and it was showing it's age TBH, very tatty round the edges, non working TVs, seats that didn't recline, rubbish air con and really noisy. Won't miss them.
I was pretty lucky to work on them when I was an apprentice in Lhr in the late 90s . Minor checks so changing a few wheels and brakes , engine filters then take them outside and run the engines , at 18 I thought it was the best thing ever . I’ve been around aeroplanes for a while now and thought I didn’t really have any attachment to them as it’s become just a job now but I did feel a hint of sadness at the news this morning.
Never actually flown in one but the science museum in London has a cross-section of a fuselage and it's even bigger than it looks. The feeling when your little airbus parks beside one is always pretty cool
3/4 of my flights on 747s, I was seated in 64A, was brilliant, felt like as close as I’ll get to being on a private jet.
The 4th was in 64B, thanks to BA cocking up. A poor relation to 64A, especially as I was facing the person who ‘stole’ my seat 😤
The A380 is better in most ways, but just lacks something special, IMO
It’s the only one (not including cargo) with the cockpit upstairs - I have no idea why, but I reckon that’s a big part of why they seem to have something other planes don’t
I have fond if hazy memories of flying the Atlantic in a B747 in the 70s ss a child. In those innocent days the crew would let children come up to the flight deck and ride the jump seat for a while when established in cruise.
My only other B747 flight wad economy class to ****stan, not so good when you are a (small) adult.
Lots of recent experience of A380 travel, better than B747 in every way but lacking in character 🙁.
I worked on the engines for both the B787 and A350 but have yet to fly in either type. I hear that they are both good rides and really want to fly in one or both. I avoid personal flying for tree hugging reasons but before C19 did lots of long haul for work, hopefully less in the future. ✈
Mashr,
The B747 flight deck is 'upstairs' to allow for a hinged cargo loading nose. The aircraft was designed for cargo.
I loathed the BA ones when flying regularly - noisy, poor entertainment systems. I once flew Tokyo to Sapporo on a JAL 747 'shuttle' where they'd rammed as many seats as possible (it was nearly as bad as the A340 'trooper' from Brize to Akrotiri) As I had a business class ticket myself and my colleague were 'upgraded' to a pair of seats in the nose. There was a small 'entertainment' screen with a forward-facing camera. I did laugh when the marshaller on landing gave a bow when we got on the stand. I flew a few time business class to Sydney in the upstairs - that was nice.
Mashr,
The B747 flight deck is ‘upstairs’ to allow for a hinged cargo loading nose. The aircraft was designed for cargo.
Punters don’t need to know that though, it sets it out from the crowd as a result
Kai Tak approach in a 747 was something my Father got to experience. Very jealous.
I did it when I was 9, very surreal watching folk on their balconies going about their day as you pass them looking along the wing.
I remember visiting the flight deck of a 747 as a kid visiting Florida - would have been 1982. Saw the shuttle launch too, so an exciting trip for a 7 year old :).
Since then, been on a few BA 747s, I seem to recall a trip back from Cairo on one which was good. Always tried to get on the top deck of possible.
One of our honeymoon flights was on the top deck of an Air NZ 747 and it was pretty special, I think they retired a few years ago though.
Looks like my last trip on a BA747 was a jaunt down to Lagos in Nigeria in Feb - booked out and back in 64K but got upgraded on the return, so a reasonably fitting end.
I recall doing trips out to Washington DC in the early 90s upstairs on more than one BA 747-200 - when upstairs was (a) smaller, (b) up a spiral staircase and (c) didn't have any emergency exits of its own... Upper deck on the 747-400 always seems a bit common after that 😉
BA was in the process of running its fleet down before Covid-19 anyway - hence the shocking internal state of some of them. Seems the number running long-haul routes across airlines globally has dropped off massively in the past few years but I did trips on Lufthansa and Korean Air 747-8s within the last 12 months - perhaps some of those will survive a bit longer (no guarantees in the current environment).
At the end of the day they're all planes. It's easy enough to have a good flight on a bad plane and vice-versa! Better cabin air quality is a bonus in newer aircraft; quieter cabins a double-edged sword with passenger and crew noise becoming more noticeable. The 787's narrower cabin is actually a pretty big compromse that kind of kills the 'dream' if you're sat in the wrong place.
Nice pics on Guardian and an article too.
-m-, my last was 62A out, 62K back. Upgraded on the way home, after a near death experience just outside DC! Was connecting DCA-PHL-LHR and was all ready to settle in upstairs. A beep at boarding, "we've got a seat issue, sir..." I was ready to rant, when they handed me 2A instead. Did a lot of damage to the Hattingley then slept like a baby!
Ironically I've never really been that bothered about the upper deck seats - more often than not I'd choose the front row bulkhead downstairs because it's quicker to get off. Not much affects my on-board routine and a bottle of water is generally enough to see me through a flight wherever I'm sat.
Mashr,
The B747 flight deck is ‘upstairs’ to allow for a hinged cargo loading nose. The aircraft was designed for cargo.
Not true. The majority of 747 freighters are passenger to freighter conversions so don't have the front door. The dedicated freighters don't have the extended upper deck of the -400 variant. The story of the upper deck was that the original brief for the aircraft was for a double decker aircraft for Pan Am...the biggest player back in the day. The airline CEO was set on a single isle double decker (CEO willly waving), but Boeing felt the best configuration was twin isle wide body single deck (the 747 was also the first twin isle wide body). The compromise was to have a 'token upper deck' for Pan Am marketing purposes and in the early days was used for crew rest rather than passengers. Maybe a bar too.
The dedicated freighter opportunity with the front door was a happy coincidence. Along with other airframe differences over the passenger version the dedicated freighter variant came later as they recognised the benefit of the new market. The freight market is much smaller than the passenger market...you'd be an idiot to compromise the aircraft efficiency for the freighter variant over the passenger variant. the relative size of the market is stark. Airbus deliberated over this for a long time with the 380, but decided eventually to not compromise the passenger aircraft variant for freight. Turned out to be the right decision.
The best freighter today is the 777 freighter...not the 747 dedicated freighter. The dedicated 747 freighter market is a very niche sector of a very niche market.
Mentioned this to Mrs gd who has been able to have the upstairs experience.
I had my first and only flights on one to and from Cape Town a few years ago.
You know what they say about never meeting your heroes...
The interior was knackered, leg room was on a par with worst of any flight I've done over 3 hours, noisy, hot and airless. As a cattle passenger not really got a lot of enthusiasm.
An incredible piece of aviation history and one I always admired and now rightly occupying a place in it. It's time has passed like a CNC'd 135mm quill stem and a pair of Answer Hyperlites.
I've been lucky enough to fly top deck on the 747 in its heyday and also when BA was a proper airline and not a Ryan Air wannabe. Before the top deck of the A380 came along it was the best place to fly. It was always a blessed relief after a foreign business trip to walk upstairs, settle down with something fizzy and heave a contented sigh, almost felt I was home already.
Only flown on a 747 twice which was back and for to Denver, B.A. fight and didn’t leave from Terminal 5. I will say the old girl had seen better days but felt special to be on a “Jumbo”
True story - I met my husband to be, on a BA'jumbo jet' flight from LHR to SF0.
Hopefully Manchester will buy one for the airport museum.
I'm lucky enough to have been on one LHR-JFK, the 787 is a more pleasant ride but there's something about a 747!
I live under the flightpath for Doncaster/Sheffield so lucky enough to see a couple (freight) landing most weeks.
True story – I met my husband to be, on a BA’jumbo jet’ flight from LHR to SF0.
Hopefully Manchester will buy one for the airport museum.
A husband to be?
A husband to be?
This is the one and only husband. I have very fond memories of canoodling on the back row.
I have very fond memories of canoodling on the back row.
I don't
Good riddance, you folk need to stop romanticising tech that is destroying our environment.
We all need to move with the times, at a pace.
Good riddance, you folk need to stop romanticising tech that is destroying our environment.
Pretty much everyone here is in agreement that times have moved past it.
Had a trip back from Canada on Canadian airlines 747 and had the front row window seat upstairs. Loads of room, lockers down the side were a bonus table. Free booze and a fascinating air canada flight engineer guy to chat to sat next to me.
My sister works in business travel and got flown back from somewhere in the Caribbean on a 747 and got to sit in the cockpit with headphones on for the landing into Heathrow. That was before 911!
canoodling on the back row.
The double seats down the back? Wise choice. More space by the window.
Pretty sure it was a 747 I flew on LHR-LAX in 1993, Air New Zealand. Lovely cabin crew, nice plane to be in for twelve hours.
There’s a few on the runway at Cardiff ready to be decommissioned
Worth having a look at Cotswold Airport at Kemble, what was the home of the Red Arrows for a time. There’s always a bunch of aircraft of various types being dismantled, the road runs alongside the runway for a short distance with a lay-by and a snack van.
I believe there’s a number of BA 747’s parked there now, likely to be dismantled soon.
Here’s a panorama photo I took from the lay-by back in 2017, on the far left there’s a 747 parked by the road that’s been there for years, as a sort of gate-guardian...
What's gonna happen to them?
What’s gonna happen to them?
Only flew a handful of times but one of my most exciting childhood moments was seeing the NASA space shuttle piggybacking a 747 from my bedroom window. Bonkers thinking it about it now (Close to Ringway flight path, early eighties). The concords became a bit Meh after that.
you folk need to stop romanticising tech that is destroying our environment.
Did you come on this thread just to posture? Bye.
NASA space shuttle piggybacking a 747
Ahem; that would be a VC-25...
The concords became a bit Meh after that.
I used to love the sight and sound of Concorde coming over; when F1 cars had 3.5ltr V12 engines; Group B rally cars and the Flying Scotsman is no less impressive now for being somewhat out of date.
I won't be browbeaten into denial of this lovely engineering by eco-weenies. The world has moved on; nostalgia is still carbon neutral.
Ahem; that would be a VC-25…
Nope, both shuttle carriers were adapted from commercial 747s
Upstairs 62K is still one of my fav seats ever, even though the BA biz product is outdated that little upstairs cabin, bacon butty and an espresso before landing was a great way to come home 👍
Thought this thread might be the most appropriate place to post this:
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/supersonic-jet-prototype-testing
Boom have been pimping that around for years now! Interesting to see kf it has any future in the post C19 world. Will enough people be travelling again, and will enough of them has sufficient need/budget for that sort of travel?
While it's cool, I'd still rather take my time...thusly
Upstairs 62K...bacon butty and an espresso before landing was a great way to come home 👍
Ahh, the old build-a-scale-model-to-get-some-more-cash-out-of-investors trick 🙂
Well, I do think there is a certain romanticism surrounding the old girl, so farewell. As a child in the sixties, when air travel was still a luxury, the closest I got to a ‘Jumbo’ was the Queens Building at Heathrow. The BOAC and Pan Am ‘planes looked so big and modern.
I got to fly in numerous Pan Am ‘Clippers’ later, with their rows of ‘smoking’ seats and THE feature film projected onto bulkhead and those horrible things that you had to stick in your ears AND the miserable middle-aged air hostesses where anything was too much trouble.
Then Virgin arrived with their Jumbos, wow an in-flight entertainment system and friendly staff to boot. Happy days.
Air New Zealand, they did the LA route too, we got bumped upstairs once due to them overbooking the flight, they were nice.
TWA, Delta and American, we flew on their 747s too - not so happy days.
Anyway, as the op says, farewell old lady.
Did anyone see the last Qantas 747 flight yesterday?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-53509361
They've brought forward retirement of their fleet too. From its heydey there's now only about 30-odd passenger 747's still flying. Lufthansa are still running their fleet, not sure who else.