MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Michael Schumacher has been given a 10-place grid penalty for the Japanese Grand Prix after crashing into the back of Jean-Eric Vergne in yesterdays Singapore GP and McLaren's Jenson Button believes the championship is between Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel.
So does this open the door for Lewis Hamilton to move to Mercedes?
I do hope so as I would love to see one of the up and coming young drivers; such as Paul di Resta or Sergio Perez, given the chance in a top team.
Nah - he'll stay with McLaren.
The Mercedes board are having doubts about being fully committed to their own team in the long term (due to their constant under performance). I can't see Hamilton going to a team that may do a Honda and pull the plug anytime.
bearing in mind he's double the points in his current team than merc have, he'd be stupid to go.
schuey into management, Di resta to merc.
Schuey into a old folks home, Di Resta to Merc. 🙂
Di Resta was a Merc DTM driver; he'll be well into the minds of Merc senior management.
All Merc need to do then it get rid of the other underperformer and they could have two good drivers.
Then the lack of results is just down to the car...
Di Resta was a Merc DTM driver; he'll be well into the minds of Merc senior management
Still retained I believe, they may even have first refusal on him
All Merc need to do then it get rid of the other underperformer
?!? Rosberg has consistantly outperformed the most successful driver ever, and someone known for being to get a whole teambehind him at the expense of his team-mates (although this does appear to be less prevelant at Mrec than it was at Ferrai and Benneton)
OK, Rosberg hasn't done great since his win (more wins than Schumacher note) but that does appear to be down to the car. I hardly think Rosberg can be described as an underperformer.
.
(from a a Webber/Button/Kobiashi fan, not a Rosberg fan particularly)
I just want to see Ferarri finally ditch Massa and do something really mad like give the seat to Kobyashi....now that would make 2013 an epic season 😀
I just want to see Ferarri finally ditch Massa and do something really mad like give the seat to Kobyashi....now that would make 2013 an epic season
Whatever Domenicali has said to try and keep the background noise down, I really can't see anyone other than Perez taking that seat either 2013 or 14
Yes, but a man can dream cant he?
Hamo to the US
Kimi to Mercedes
Hora back to earth from the pig he's currently flying around on.
I still reckon there is a chance Hamilton could move to Merc, there's a few reasons.
Merc could (and reportedly have) offer him more money than McLaren, he would have a much freer choice over what sponsorship and endorsements he could do (so even more money).
McLaren are offering him a lower pay deal that what he's currently on, as they have to pay for the Mercedes engines from next season. Another contract stipulation McLaren make is that they keep all trophies, which Hamilton has made a fuss about several times, and he's trying to negotiate keeping the trophies into his contract, which McLaren aren't having.
Hamilton consistently beat Rosberg throughout their junior years, so he would (probably) be No 1 driver.
His management company are XIX Entertainment, owned by Simon Fuller, they're thinking past his F1 career too (hence having the ability to do more PR work important).
Final point, he doesn't seem happy there anymore, I'm betting he's had a falling out with the management.
Good news for Perez. Seems his driving style is similar to Button's too so maybe Macca can build a car that works for both of them.
Seems a bad move for Lewis and you'd have to wonder if it's more about money and making a change than anything else. Hopefully Paul Di Resta over to McLaren as I doubt Perez would be released by Ferrari unless loads of money changed hands and I'd be willing to bet McLaren want someone on a long-term contract.
Seems a bad move for Lewis and you'd have to wonder if [s]it's more about money and making a change than anything else[/s] he's got more info than us.
Reading that BBC link it seems as if Perez is already on his way to McLaren, a shame as I really wanted to see DiResta there as I'd love to see him with a big team. His time will come though.
Not sure Hamilton will fare any better at Merc than he did at McLaren.
Not sure Hamilton will fare any better at Merc than he did at McLaren.
Well he managed a few wins and a WDC at McLaren
as I doubt Perez would be released by Ferrari unless loads of money changed hands and I'd be willing to bet McLaren want someone on a long-term contract.
Alonso may well have vetoed a Perez move to Ferrari, he's reputed to have a clause allowing him to do that sort of thing
Di Resta could still end up at Ferrari, particularly if Perez goes to McL
Hamilton's move will either be shown to be very astute (with several new hires at Merc affecting/benefiting the car design from 2013 onwards and then the new engines from 2014) or a silly move that regardless of the truth will make his story be one of a talent gone to waste chasing money. I really hope it's the former. Championships with Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton (and maybe Button if the car's right) all on song and in competitive cars will be fantastic.
Well he managed a few wins and a WDC at McLaren
I don't think he'll manage that at Mercedes. Maybe he does indeed know something we don't though and I'm way off the mark 😉
My initial thoughts are that this is a bad move for LH. But they said the same when schumi went to Ferrari. Granted it took a while....but he was reasonably successful with them.
In 2014 engines are likely to be a big factor - new to everybody but the engine supplier's factory team will obviously have a bit more time with them than anyone else. So the Mercedes team should have a small headstart on the likes of McLaren (if they take 2014 Merc engines) which could make a big difference, especially in the first part of the season which is usually full of fly-away races which limit major redevelopment.
Also, while the units will themselves be officially homologised so there won't be massive differences between 'factory engines' and 'customer engines' there must be some benefit from being at the top of the list when issues need resolving.
All assuming that the 2014 engine rules actually come to pass of course...
[quote=jota180]Well he managed a few wins and a WDC at McLaren
That was sort of my point. He's in the fastest car, the team loves him (or used to) and he's in a home away from home there as he's been a McLaren driver for half his life. He is unlikely to improve on his situation other than the bank balance.
[quote=jota180]Alonso may well have vetoed a Perez move to Ferrari, he's reputed to have a clause allowing him to do that sort of thing
He's definitely got a clause to approve team mates but it'd be odd to have drivers in the young driver programme that turn out to be great and then you reject because they're too good. My money is still on him going to Ferrari in the next couple of years though. I'd have said that DiResta would have been at Mercedes if Hamilton hadn't signed. So, spare seat at McLaren I'm going to say DiResta or maybe, as an outside, Kovalainen.
Perez will end up at Ferrari once Alonso's career is on the wane, in the meantime they need a fast lap dog to replace Massa
[quote=thepurist]Also, while the units will themselves be officially homologised so there won't be massive differences between 'factory engines' and 'customer engines' there must be some benefit from being at the top of the list when issues need resolving.
Mercedes said the main advantage is that their car and engine will be packaged as a whole and others will have to live with what that means. Apparently the specs will be identical. That said given that's how the engine situation works right now, I don't imagine that'd be a big change.
However, given McLaren make their own engines for the road cars, is it too big a stretch to say that perhaps they have plans to move to their own engines soon and that might be why Hamilton wants the safer option of a Mercedes engine?
I hope McC really get behind Button. A great driver and, on the face of it, a decent bloke unlike......
BBC R4 news has just announced Hamilton going to Merc, BIG mistake Lewis 🙁
Perez to Mclaren apparently too.
Schumi to reject Sauber and just disappear?
BBC has just announced Hamilton going to Merc, BIG mistake Lewis
we know, that's what we're discussing 🙂
Personally, I'd like to see MSc go back to Ferrari for one final year to replace the bitterly disappointing Massa. Now that would make for some interesting racing IMO!
Maybe, maybe not - It's really impossible to be that sure...
On paper, Merc could be a smart option. Will it work out that way though?
The other thing to consider is that despite McL's ability to produce typically good cars, they've won only one World Championship in 13 years - so it seems that they rarely produce the best car - maybe going to Merc isn't such a gamble based on that and the changes coming up at Merc.
Or look at it the other way, everyone said Button was crazy leaving Brawn/Merc after winning the WC and with the benefit of hindsight he clearly made the right decision
DId i read somewhere one of the teams has first dips on di Resta? Which one is it?
Di Resta I'd have thought would be tied in with Merc(?) (and by proxy-ish, McL)
Or look at it the other way, everyone said Button was crazy leaving Brawn/Merc after winning the WC and with the benefit of hindsight he clearly made the right decision
I'm not sure. Given how their form deteriorated in comparison to the others once everyone worked out the tricks Brawn used to make it go quickly, I think a lot of people thought Button was going for a safer long-term choice.
I think DiResta had a long-term Merc contract but I'd imagine that he has clauses to let him drive for other manufacturers.
Rosberg has [s]consistantly[/s] sometimes outperformed the [s]most successful driver[/s] oldest driver on the grid [s]ever[/s]
Sorted.
I recall a similar arguement on the forum about that other journeyman Heidfeld. I said if he ever became champion I'd eat my socks. I'm still waiting.
Rosberg will show his true pace next year against arguably the quickest [u]current[/u] driver. Let's re-convene next October and compare.
I'm astonished that Hamo is off. The call of the new engine regs must have swayed him more than even bucketloads of cash. Time will tell.
Rosberg will show his true pace next year against arguably the quickest current driver. Let's re-convene next October and compare.
It'll be tough given that Hammo has secured No1 driver status and privileges
I was in Singapore for the race and spoke to one or two people who I believe have some decent inside info.
It was all about the money. Mclaren's offer was about 30% down on his prior contract.
Hamilton has taken the cheque and will spend a few years trailing around mid pack in a poor car. Clearly those are his priorities.
well first he went into tax exile and then he took the money over the best car.
Great driver but clearly greedy.
I cant see beyond financial reasons to have done this tbh and whatever he had one he would have retired a millionaire.
Wasn't it Button that was so keen to stay with Honda, he covered his own travel & subsistence costs for a season? He is a proper grown up compared to Hammy's childish exploits. Just have a look at Hammy on Twitter....
Shame he's not quite as fast though :-/
Hamiltons move will never be like the Walkinshaw move. So thats a good thing. The thing is Hamilton is still an amazing talent-I think its motivation, its not 100%. Post-title win he kinda lost that edge alittle.
Moving to a new team will be like 2008 allover again- he'll have something to prove allover again. Thats why I think its a great move.
Mclaren wasn't about just the pitstop ****ups. They were ****ing up long before and during. Strategy, tyre choice, wing choice etc etc- almost farcical at times. Remember China when he lost those valuable points- even on TV we could see his tyres falling apart and still they kept him out. ****s.
Button is more an Eddie Irvine for me- (not driving style)- forgot the WDC- he can have good days but also middling days.
@Junkyard - of course he's a tax exile, he'd be mad not to be. He has a job which requires him to be in the UK just a short time each year, why live here and pay ridiculous amounts of tax. I believe he lives in Villars above Lake Geneva, it's really lovely there.
A word in favour of McLaren, these are tough economic times, of course drivers should be paid less as McLaren's revenues from sponsorship etc are under pressure. Prudent financial decision.
Shouldn't have been landed with a $100m fine then 😆
....begs the question...if Mclaren wont pay it and Mercedes will - who has the more money to 'spend'? What does it say about Mclaren's development budget?
It'll be tough given that Hammo has secured No1 driver status and privileges
Yeah, coz Schumi would never do that, would he?
of course he's a tax exile, he'd be mad not to be
your right he would literally be in a mad house and almost definitely destitute if he did anything else, The multi millionaire has not done it because he is personally greedy and morally dodgy IMHO.
As the decision to move to a worse team for more money shows he is a man of fine principles
PS he found it boring so moved to Monaco - which is also a tax haven - go figure he must still be sane rather than still be personally very greedy
Sorry my mistake carry on as you were.
Strategy, tyre choice, wing choice etc etc- almost farcical at times
Yet McLaren have 5 wins and are 2nd in the constructors championship a good race away from the lead. Mercedes are 5th, barely ahead of Sauber (a privateer team) and will not overhaul Lotus for 4th. Hamilton is trading results for money.
Yes, McLaren have messed up but Mercedes have been no better and will not match McLaren next season.
I don't particularly blame him for being a tax exile as it goes but JKR summed things up quite well
I chose to remain a domiciled taxpayer for a couple of reasons. The main one was that I wanted my children to grow up where I grew up, to have proper roots in a culture as old and magnificent as Britain’s; to be citizens, with everything that implies, of a real country, not free-floating ex-pats, living in the limbo of some tax haven and associating only with the children of similarly greedy tax exiles.A second reason, however, was that I am indebted to the British welfare state; the very one that Mr Cameron would like to replace with charity handouts. When my life hit rock bottom, that safety net, threadbare though it had become under John Major’s Government, was there to break the fall. I cannot help feeling, therefore, that it would have been contemptible to scarper for the West Indies at the first sniff of a seven-figure royalty cheque. This, if you like, is my notion of patriotism. On the available evidence, I suspect that it is Lord Ashcroft’s idea of being a mug.
J.K. Rowling
atlaz - Member
Yet McLaren have 5 wins and are 2nd in the constructors championship a good race away from the lead. Mercedes are 5th, barely ahead of Sauber (a privateer team) and will not overhaul Lotus for 4th. Hamilton is trading results for money.Yes, McLaren have messed up but Mercedes have been no better and will not match McLaren next season.
BUT... how many WC's have McL drivers won recently? Yes, it's better to be in the hunt than not but there's a plausible case that Merc may be the better option, not in 2012 but 2013 and onwards, particularly when you consider that they went up a blind alley with the double DRS this year. I would suggest that as a racer, sticking with a team that consistently fails to quite deliver the best car and going to a team that might possibly produce one isn't quite as illogical as some may thing, particularly if you're a 'winning is all' type person.
(Merc double DRS blind alley explanation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19064856 )
What a greedy idiot Hammy is. That team has gone, and is going nowhere unless in 2014 it decides to not give its engines to anyone else and totally focus as a works team, yet it seems they are still undecided about even signing the concorde agreement! that car has had hardly any development or progress and it STILL after 2 seasons cannot get the tyres working correctly at any race in any temperatures.
Prediction - Hamilton will exit after 1 year after consistently burning up the tyres and crashing trying to battle midfield cars.
Schumi to fill Massa seat for 1 more season, his finale to Ferrari.
What is Alonso's beef with Perez?
He's too quick? 😀
Nah, I wouldn't have thought he would have an issue tbh - Perez seems perfect for Ferrari except that he's maybe too green and the weight of expectation at Ferrari might have been bad for his career.
clubber - You can say that about almost every team. Red Bull won two, Brawn one, McLaren one, Renault a couple. No era of dominance. But you CAN say that Hamilton has won 20% of all F1 races he's started, been on pole for nearly 25%, and been on the podium for 50% of them. To put that winning % into perspective, of the current stars of F1, only Schumacher is better.
I don't think you could argue he'd have done better anywhere else.
F1 fans,any reason why there was so little coverage (and praise )of Di Resta's fourth spot in Singapore recently ?.
Di Resta to Ferrari because he sounds Italian.
Until he speaks at least...
Perez definitely one to watch for the future. Agreed that he might be a bit green for the Big Red but it will be nice to see him in a Ferrari one day.
I think Di Resta will now be in doubt of ever getting in a top F1 seat. The two favourite options - Merc and McLaren - have now been closed. And Ferrari already have good junior drivers on the books (and possibly Vettel for 2014 if rumours are to be believed).
So McLaren have confirmed the Perez signing
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102891
I'd like to think that Hamilton leaving shows his lack of ambition and proves that money is his motivator.
However it's probably more like this
"Dear Ron and Martin
I've been with Macca a long time and I think of you as my family. However as you are aware, I signed up with my new management company (XIX) a couple of years ago and Simon Fuller sees me as a bit of a cash cow! I'd love to stay at Macca but unfortunately my annual management fees are so high, that I need to earn £20m a year minimum just to pay them and live a basic existence.
As I said, I love to stay and I know I won't win anything with Merc but the have thrown in a SLS. Although Simon tells me he is having the SLS.
Kind regards
Lewie
PS - I wish my Dad was still my manager, as he never raped me!"
Seriously, big regulation changes including engines in 2014. He's just moved to the best engine manufacturer with the best team principle for interpreting new regulations. My money is on Brawn doing a repeat of what he did for Button come 2014, only he'll have the budget to follow it up.
Very wise move and not just about the money IMO!
atlaz - Member
clubber - You can say that about almost every team......I don't think you could argue he'd have done better anywhere else.
Red Bull came up and won so you can't really claim the comparison over more than about three or four years IMO
Renault produced some great cars that were (until the FIA intervened) the class of the field
McL have consistently produced good cars, just never the best (or if they have, they've made a mess of actually winning)
Hamilton would likely have been more competitive at Red Bull, wouldn't he?
GaryLake +1
I'd like to think that Hamilton leaving shows his lack of ambition and proves that money is his motivator.
No I was gobsmacked at their mistakes. Utterly stupid.
What was worse was they REPEATED them.
Not everyone is as perfect as you, clearly.
That isn't the point/correct analogy is it. 😐
atlaz - Member
clubber - You can say that about almost every team. Red Bull won two, Brawn one, McLaren one, Renault a couple. No era of dominance.<snip>
To be fair, Brawn didn't [i]really[/i] win this. Brawn bought the team from Honda for peanuts (was it £10? Can't recall) after Honda had sunk $200 million into development. In Honda guise, they spotted the double defuser loophole and then Brawn did nothing to develop the car in season due to budget limitations. IIRC, Jenson won the first 5 or 6 races in his Championship winning season (when everyone else was scrabbling to develop their own DD) and struggled for the rest of the season?
McLaren has heritage, present Mercedes does not. Mercedes=Brawn=Honda=BAR an upstart team that was going to win the championship in it's second year according to the silly team principal (Craig Pollock).
That isn't the point/correct analogy is it
Yes. People make mistakes, stuff breaks. McL are now the slickest pit crew out there. It shows that they have learned and improved. They have more or less the quickest car and the quickest pitstops. Merc are slower, eat tyres and take longer to change them.
Hamo must be confident that the new regs will be a game changer.
Mind, it must be a bit galling that JB signed an £85 Million 3 year deal, and then they can't find £60 million for the other World Champ in the squad.
[quote=clubber ]Red Bull came up and won so you can't really claim the comparison over more than about three or four years IMO
Renault produced some great cars that were (until the FIA intervened) the class of the field
McL have consistently produced good cars, just never the best (or if they have, they've made a mess of actually winning)
Hamilton would likely have been more competitive at Red Bull, wouldn't he?
From 2009 I'd say quite possibly. Before then, definitely not (2005-2008 they only scored 3 podiums in total). Not disagreeing that he might have won more by team hopping but taken as a whole, he's driven for the most successful team overall during the timespan of his career.
Red Bull were consistent underachievers for the previous decade of their existence with 1 win for the something like 1 billion dollars spent by Ford and other partners.
However as you are aware, I signed up with my new management company (XIX) a couple of years ago and Simon Fuller sees me as a bit of a cash cow! I'd love to stay at Macca but unfortunately my annual management fees are so high, that I need to earn £20m a year minimum just to pay them and live a basic existence.
I can neither remember nor be arsed to google for the source, and am therefore happy to be corrected, but I read in one newspaper or other the other day that XIX take 50% of Hamilton's money.
Would that be about right, as it seems a very high % to me?
I've seen the 50% figure somewhere too - possibly an Andrew Benson story on BBC website
Would that be about right, as it seems a very high % to me?
50% of sponsorship deals they arrange for him I understand? His salary is untouched.
Ah I see. Big incentive for XIX to steer him Mercwards then.
To be fair, Brawn didn't really win this. Brawn bought the team from Honda for peanuts (was it £10? Can't recall) after Honda had sunk $200 million into development. In Honda guise, they spotted the double defuser loophole and then Brawn did nothing to develop the car in season due to budget limitations. IIRC, Jenson won the first 5 or 6 races in his Championship winning season (when everyone else was scrabbling to develop their own DD) and struggled for the rest of the season?
From memory- at the time Brawn was the team's associations tech rep and he kept this potential wow/under the reg's development close to his chest (why wouldn't he?)- they all kicked off when it was wheeled out of the garage for the first time/saw what was happening but it took a lot of protests etc didn't it...by then it was too late.
Hat firmly off to Brawn.
I ride past Lewis' new house on a regular basis.
I appreciate this has little to do with the discussions above but it is the ugliest carbuncle of a house I've ever seen and its in a nasty dark plot of land.
To be fair, Brawn didn't really win this. Brawn bought the team from Honda for peanuts (was it £10? Can't recall) after Honda had sunk $200 million into development.
Yeah, they sunk $200 million into it [i][b]under[/b][/i] his stewardship at the time.
If I had my way, I'd have his helmet permanently welded to his head and make him live in one of the McC trucks only allowed out when he needs to drive.
I love watching him drive but out of the car ....... I dunno, is he related to Chris Ewbank at all?
Indeed, but it wasn't Brawn's money, it was Honda's. Again, IIRC, Brawn went on to sell his £10 investment to Mercedes for ~£70m a year (and a double world championship) later.
jota180 that has to be the funniest post of the year HamoStig- and bang on 😆
In fairness to Team Brawn and the lack of development, they had three chassis for the whole year due to lack of cash.
Button won the World Championship in the oldest chassis in the field. No wonder everyone caught up, they were broke.
Honda could have stayed with F1 for one more year and reaped the benefit; I'm sure Brawn shared his optimism for the following year with them. But they didn't.
All this claptrap aside, I can't see Perez joining in the fun with McLaren Tooned next year. Shame.
Wonder if Mercedes have something up their sleeve with regards to the cars performance. A Ross Braun loophole or something. As it stands their car is upper mid pack, so it seems difficult to understand why if not for the money he is moving there.
Personally I think he needs to give up his dream of becoming 50 cent or Pharrell, ditch the bimbo and the objectionable entourage and get his Dad back as a manager.
retro- I thought that initially but I imagine theres alot of cross-team gossip and industry chatter as well that we don't know of. Hamo may also have talked to Schu? Who knows?
alot of cross-team gossip
That got McL a big fine.
As for getting his Dad back as manager, Paul Di Resta had him but has now dumped him and his now suing him for loss of earnings.
It's not a great thing to have on your CV.
ScottChegg - Memberalot of cross-team gossip
That got McL a big fine.
As for getting his Dad back as manager, Paul Di Resta had him but has now dumped him and his now suing him for loss of earnings.
It's not a great thing to have on your CV.
I didn't say that he was a good manager in general, just that he was good for Lewis. He got him from grass roots karting up to F1 world champion so he must have done something right.