I really dislike what F1 and the fans are becoming – it’s more and more tribal and if you like Max you hate Lewis, or vice versa
This is why I generally avoid this thread. This thread is pretty placid though compared to F1 Twitter which is a vast cesspool of hate from every angle.
We should be discussing how the FIA have screwed up Alonso’s amazing recovery drive with ridiculous penalties!
It was Haas proving a point.
They've been pulled up 3 times for a simple flapping wing endplate. So were a bit surprised when a car with a lot of crash damage was allowed to run freely.
I really dislike what F1 and the fans are becoming – it’s more and more tribal and if you like Max you hate Lewis, or vice versa.
Me too. It's become toxic. Even in this thread, we've polarised views with one apparent Troll posting point after point trying to hammer his nail into concrete. Just fkcu off. Who cares.
Haas also protested Perez running with a loose end plate, when IIRC Perez was on team radio (see above) complaining about others doing that only a couple of weeks ago.
I think it's down to the FIA starting to enforce all of the rules as they are written, same as the underwear and jewellery rules that have been in the text but never enforced. Seems that's what it takes for the teams to pay attention and debate whether it's a good rule or not, so if the Haas/Alpine tiff leads to a clarification or re-drafting of that rule then so be it. Same as rules for partial races which were applied correctly by the FIA even though they didn't give the expected result.
configuration
Free Member
Fuming Lewis Hamilton yells ‘I told you’ at Mercedes team as wrong call sees Max Verstappen regain Formula 1 championship lead, as Valtteri Bottas wins Turkish Grand Prix
So three instances where the team actually did cock up. How's that relevant to the point which is Max was being a sarcastic little twart even though nobody had actually made a mistake?
edit- let's forget this it's pointless
Me too. It’s become toxic. Even in this thread, we’ve polarised views with one apparent Troll posting point after point trying to hammer his nail into concrete. Just fkcu off. Who cares.
Me too, I can happily admit I’m a Hamilton fan - which being a mixed race family comes a lot from what he represents not just his driving ability - but I can appreciate how good Verstappen is - and others - yet I don’t have to like his or Horner's personality. I liked Mansell and many didn’t, I didn’t like Schumacher senior, or Prost. We all have our like and dislikes but for me it’s certainly not “hate”.
Let’s remember most of the drivers are great drivers, just with different equipment in a sport of very fine margins.
We all have our like and dislikes but for me it’s certainly not “hate”.
So why the childish abuse of Verstappen, RB, Christian Horner etc?
So three instances where the team actually did cock up. How’s that relevant to the point which is Max was being a sarcastic little twart even though nobody had actually made a mistake?
Can you really not see just how stupid that looks?
edit- let’s forget this it’s pointless
Wasn't there a sort of agreement earlier in this thread, that such behaviour is really quite silly anyway?
Imagine if last year's result was reverse; imagine if it had been Hamilton needing to beat Max, and had benefitted form the stewards error. Do you really think people on here would be saying 'oh that's so unfair Max deserved the WC, Lewis and Mercedes and Toto Wolf are all mean and nasty wah wah wah'?
No. Of course they wouldn't. They'd instead be going on about how Lewis won on the track, could only race according to what instructions he'd been given, etc etc etc. There's nothing wrong with tribalism and partisanship, but the toxicity on this thread has almost all been from one direction. And it's not Harry Styles' fault either. So have a word with yourselves. Perhaps learn a bit of self awareness too. So the rest of us can enjoy a thread about F1 without all this constant whining and sniping and utterly blinkered nonsense. As for liking people or not; why not concentrate on the sport, rather than fixating on imagined aspects of someone's personality, based on your own prejudices about people you've never met?
We should be discussing how the FIA have screwed up Alonso’s amazing recovery drive with ridiculous penalties!
We should. It seems grossly unfair for Alonso, but Haas do perhaps have a point. I think they should have deducted constructors points, rather than penalising a driver for actually doing what he's paid for and providing great entertainment.
Edit doublepost.
Wasn’t there a sort of agreement earlier in this thread, that such behaviour is really quite silly anyway?
Yes.
Wasn’t there a sort of agreement earlier in this thread, that such behaviour is really quite silly anyway?
I think the above was only a procedural breach of this agreement. They've probably had too much coffee 🤣
Lol! Or perhaps a popular brand of energy drink?
Irony: the one here doing the most complaining is the one doing the most stoking.
So if we're now saying that MV is a great driver and probably the best out there at the moment, does this mean that everyone agrees that LH was the best whilst he was winning his 7 WDC's and it actually has nothing to do with the cars?....
Take the blinkers off. They were all at it, repeatedly, throughout the race.
No blinkers involved! I watch the C4 highlights so I don't see everything that happens within the race and I only watch the race, i watch nothing before or after the race
I also said the following which you didn't quote
Track limits are a joke, some drivers went off 4 times and still didn't get penalized, personally I think it should be 2 warnings then on the 3rd time you receive a 5 sec penalty
That info again came from the C4 highlights during the race
Not sure why people feel the need to slag off drivers, I'm no Max fan (prefer Lewis, Sainz, Lando and George) but I apricate that he is a very talented driver and like Hamilton and other drivers he gets annoyed when things go wrong and says things in the heat of the moment just like normal people do when things go wrong
It's always to do with the cars.
The best drivers always end up in the best cars though. 🙂
Not sure why people feel the need to slag off drivers
Because they don't like it when their views aren't shared by everyone. It's playground stuff really.
Both Max and Lewis are by any measure; amazing at what they do, I have no doubt that Lewis has set the milestone by which every driver from now will be measured - in the same way the Fangio was before Senna and Prost, Schumacher after that, and Vettel, and so on. I have no doubt that if RB continues to build winnable cars, Max will win in them, perhaps in time, he'll challenge the other greats in numbers of wins and championships. He certainly seems to be winning for fun currently.
I think we all want good racing between drivers and cars that on any Sunday could win. Personally I groan when pit stops go badly for any of the drivers, I cheer at all the overtakes,and feel bad for drivers who get punted off, or crash.
The radio broadcasts are nothing, these guys are under tremendous pressure, they all says things in the heat of the moment. I'd rather they behave like humans than robots.
It’s always to do with the cars.
The best drivers always end up in the best cars though. 🙂
this is exactly why you cant really say A is better than B unless they are in the same team
Both Max and Lewis are by any measure; amazing at what they do, I have no doubt that Lewis has set the milestone by which every driver from now will be measured – in the same way the Fangio was before Senna and Prost, Schumacher after that, and Vettel, and so on.
+1. I'd include Alonso in that list as well, as he has a remarkable ability to drive a crap/damaged car extremely fast. His drive to keep Schuey behind him at Imola 2005, in a clearly inferior car, was one of the best races I've ever seen.
He also lost out on a few WCs by very small margins, not least in 2007 of course. Had major battles with the greatest; Schuey, Lewis and Vettel. I remember watching him in the Le Man 24 hours, forget which year; his laps were just so much quicker than anyone else. Definitely one of the greatest ever, imo.
rather than fixating on imagined aspects of someone’s personality, based on your own prejudices about people you’ve never met?
Hold on, you might not agree with what I say and I've already said let's draw a line under it.
But let's be clear - they are inferences based on my observations of RB and Max over many years, not something I imagined on a whim "based on my own prejudices".
He also lost out on a few WCs by very small margins,
He was 8 points off being a five time champion
Max has really excelled this year and matured, but
he hasn’t had much competition!then the others spent less
Someone had to change this
He was 8 points off being a five time champion
Was it really that little? Wow.
With the progress Aston have made in recent races a few podiums may be possible for Alonso next season.
With the progress Aston have made in recent races a few podiums may be possible for Alonso next season.
This is Alonso we're talking about. As soon as he moves to Aston I'd expect Alpine to start making massive performance gains while Aston become less competitive. He's an awesome driver but lousy at picking which team to join.
On the subject of budget caps
When we didn't have one Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari were way ahead of the others for years because they could spend the most.
Now we have one Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari are way ahead of the others because...?
Now we have one Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari are way ahead of the others because…?
...they have spent the most for years so have amazing facilities and great people that have been attracted by and contributed to that success. Many teams didn't have to worry much about their cost cap submissions because their entire budget has always been lower than the limit - IIRC Haas have said their new sponsorship deal means they finally have the funds to spend as much as the cost cap. It's going to take a while for things to balance out - maybe we'll be getting there when the new PUs arrive in 2026.
This is Alonso we’re talking about. As soon as he moves to Aston I’d expect Alpine to start making massive performance gains while Aston become less competitive. He’s an awesome driver but lousy at picking which team to join.
Agreed! But Alpine will have to set-aside 10% of their budget to repair crash damage between Ocon and Gasly! 🙂
…they have spent the most for years so have amazing facilities and great people that have been attracted by and contributed to that success.
What about McLaren? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They've really lost their way.
What about Williams? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They’ve REALLY lost their way.
🙂 - nobody stays at the top for ever.
What about Williams? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They’ve REALLY lost their way.
Rumours on social media are that Porsche are in line to buy them.
What about McLaren? They were one of the biggest teams, and biggest spenders. They’ve really lost their way.
McLaren as an F1 team may be in the doldrums.
McLaren as a motor racing company and car making company are going great guns. I like what Zak is building on the racing division side.
New wind tunnel should be up and running next year too (for 2024 car development).
Whatever happened to Stewart GP? 🤔 I don't think they were ever very big spenders...
Whatever happened to Stewart GP? 🤔 I don’t think they were ever very big spenders…
Stewart > Jaguar (Ford) > Red Bull
They blew all their budget on Tartan paint.
McLaren as a car making company are going great guns
Eh, what?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40313324/mclaren-artura-media-launch-issues/
I stand corrected! Can't believe how few they've sold - you see them everywhere! 🤣
Unsettling to hear McLaren sold the factory and leased it back - has that ever worked out, for anyone, anywhere? I remember Coventry City having problems at the Ricoh, and Birmingham have sold their ground and lease it now too.
Sauber to compete as Audi from 2026
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1585179666469773312
Could be a spicy weekend
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1585751243233923073?t=soq3WuPTbu2ILw9A33ko-A&s=19
So, Red Bull have pleaded guilty but are still saying they didn't do anything wrong.
Well I'm just glad that the whole cost cap thing will finally be over, the FIA will do something that satisfies everyone and then everyone can move on and not mention it ever again, just like Abu Dhabi...
Allegedly a financial find and a restriction on wind tunnel time. Hopefully that brings the rest a bit closer to them in ‘23. Er, hmmm.
Alonso#s 7th place reinstated
https://twitter.com/AlpineF1Team/status/1585853247260340224
Alonso#s 7th place reinstated
The right decision.
Good. It was well deserved, and one of the best drives of the day.
Chris Medland
@ChrisMedlandF1
BREAKING: Red Bull gets $7m fine and 10% reduction in car development time for budget cap breach.Breach was £1,864,000 ($2.2m) or 1.6%, but FIA acknowledged if a tax credit had been correctly applied would have been £432,652 ($0.5m), or 0.37%
