Nearly 2 seconds behind though, that’s brutal
Yes, it makes the idea that the new regulations to combat bouncing were intended to help Merc look pretty silly. When they were announced, more sensible people pointed out that they would probably have the biggest effect on the cars that had the biggest bouncing problem, which seems to be exactly the case.
Three things
Thing one: That Red Bull is bloody fast, and Versatppen seemed to be driving for fun today
Thing two: (unpopular) Yet again Spa serves up a really dull race
Thing three (random) Somebody give Ocon a car that's fast enough to challenge for the lead, the man continues to out-drive that Alpine.
Ferrari are hilarious. Leclerc tries & fails for fastet lap & then loses 5 seconds and fifth place for speeding in the pit lane 🤪
Mercedes looked fast after all, easily outpacing the Ferrari for much of the race
Thing 4: Ferrari - just so poor. And do that actual have someone in charge of strategy!? They make it up as they go along, and have thrown more points away for Charles.
@the-muffin-man, crazy no? They just seemed to be making it up on the hoof.
Thing 4: Ferrari – just so poor. And do that actual have someone in charge of strategy!? They make it up as they go along, and have thrown more points away for Charles
That last move where they gave away the track postion for a completely unnecessary pitstop was hilarious!
They have no chance of winning a championship until they get some decent people in
slightly hamstrung by their set up choices I think, but honestly, just such poor decisions, and asking the drivers what tyres they want?
shermer75
Free Member
Thing 4: Ferrari – just so poor. And do that actual have someone in charge of strategy!? They make it up as they go along, and have thrown more points away for CharlesThat last move where they gave away the track postion for a completely unnecessary pitstop was hilarious!
Got a 5 s penalty for speeding in the pit lane as well
edit sorry hadn't seen somebody already mentioned that.
Enjoyed Lewis shutting down that reporter's attempt at making some controversy in the interviews
Stuff all that modern nonsense - at the Classic, watching motor racing as it should be. 🙂
Enjoyed Lewis shutting down that reporter’s attempt at making some controversy in the interviews
Yep, he was having none of that!!
Masterclass of a drive by Max, its beginning to be a walk in the Park for Max this season ,priceless comments from Fernando after that idiotic move, Carlos was of a similar opinion in the cool down Room,
Ah yes well done to Hamilton for shutting down the reporter trying to get him into responding. Having none of that wasn’t he.
Until later.
To be fair, i think every driver would take risks to try and pass, or hold off Alonso, or end up suffering the consequences.
Anyway, looks like Ferrari have sabotaged their own season, Mercedes are getting back in it, but all too late.
With the budget cap I now don't see any team catching RB for a number of years.
This year the spread of the top 10 in qualifying at Spa was massive, larger than even when Merc were the dominant force. The new regulations have had the opposite effect to what they were meant to have and the only reason people aren't as bothered is it's not Lewis doing the winning.
With the budget cap I now don’t see any team catching RB for a number of years.
Ferrari have generally had a very fast qualifying car this year, I think this was the first race where they looked so far off the pace so this was partly circuit specific. Ferrari have just dropped the ball strategy wise. It's not too hard to believe that Leclerc would be leading the championship if Red Bull and Ferrari had swapped strategists at the start of the season. Merc seem to have a difficult car to set up and get the tyres working in qualifying, but it's much more competitive in races when the weather is warm. It would be surprising if next year's Red Bull was a dud, but it wouldn't be surprising to see Ferrari and/or Merc being right up there too. Merc get more wind tunnel time than Red Bull due to being behind in the championship so I think it's more likely that Merc will close the gap rather than Red Bull extend it.
any thoughts on the impact of the TD? Maybe moreso for ferrari than RB. Alonsos carrer decisions seems to spot on as just as he leaves Alpine they come good.
only reason people aren’t as bothered is it’s not Lewis doing the winning.
Yep, careful what you wish for, I reckon we're going to have many, many years of Max winning instead
Piastri no longer wanted by Alpine?
So Alpine could win at the CRB meeting today then tell Piastri he's not actually going to drive for them and have him sitting twiddling his thumbs. I can't help thinking it would serve him right.
I'm not sure who else they'd be excited about though!
Gasley according to that report...buying him out of RB/AT.
Tho him and Ocon don't get on....
So in that case who's in at McLaren?
DeVries maybe? More likely to Williams I'd guess. O'Ward?
Tho him and Ocon don’t get on….
Oh dear! This has def been the best silly season yet lol
buying him out of RB/AT.
Has this whole merry-go-round been an incredibly elaborate ploy between the teams to circumvent the cost cap lol
I think Piastri will end up at Mclaren but Mclaren will have to pay off Alpine who can then use the money to buy Gasley out of RB/AT
Piastri no longer wanted by Alpine?
Why is he delivering that report from the middle of Burnham Beaches?! Have they given up the studio to save energy costs lol
Why is he delivering that report from the middle of Burnham Beaches?
LOL.
https://twitter.com/EngineMode11/status/1564317492587253765
https://twitter.com/drew_becker/status/1564356660013015040
Has this whole merry-go-round been an incredibly elaborate ploy between the teams to circumvent the cost cap lol
Ferrari have hinted that RB maybe exceeding the cost cap.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/62715130
while I think the RB is clearly the class car of these regulations. The idea that Horner suggesting that they've had fewer upgrades and it's (if to be believed) widely accepted to be one of the heavier cars on the grid, then to be that far ahead after the summer break is remarkable. No wonder LeClerc is making not so subtle hints - saying it's performance is "unbelievable" about it. I don't think Ferrari are the only team on the grid to suspect some "creative interpretation" of the rules is going on.
I'd be very surprised and disappointed if every team wasn't adopting a
“creative interpretation” of the rules
that is fundamental to F1 and is why the designers and engineers get paid so much.
Oh sure, but Horner is on record for suggesting the regulations don't and can't have intent. RB have already been found to have interpreted in the rules around the plank in ways that they weren't meant to be, I think LeClerc is looking for excuses, Ferrari are making a mess of what passes for strategy, and the Merc is clearly fast in the computer, but not so much when it gets outside.
But for the RB to be that much faster than it's nearest competitors after "very few" upgrades...I don't think that doesn't happen without assistance, and in all my experience of watching F1, there's nearly always something...F-ducts, exotic fuels, brake steer...
Yep the Red Bull looked absolutely mental fast, although to be fair Sergio not so much. Prob a combination of Max's increasing confidence and the usual under-the-counter shenanigans
Well, one thing is that the Red Bull seems to have a very effective floor for creating ground effect downforce. One thing that Gary Anderson brought up is that Red Bull had a lot of experience with high-rake cars, using vortexes to seal the sides of the floor whereas Merc used low-rake cars. This year's Merc can apparently generate very good downforce in the wind tunnel, but that comes from running very low to the ground so there is a better mechanical seal between the floor and the ground. However, to do that, you need to run the suspension very stiff, which creates problems with bouncing. Merc need to improve the aerodynamic sealing of the floor using vortexes so they can run the car higher without losing downforce.
In order to remedy the bouncing problem, Merc have to run the car higher than optimum and compensate for the lost downforce with larger wings which creates higher drag. This means that the Red Bull can get very good high-speed downforce with low drag, plus they have a very clever suspension geometry that moves the center of pressure forward at low speeds, giving good balance in low speed corners. Again, they learned to do that with their high-rake cars.
I suspect Spa flattered the Red Bull's strengths and Ferrari will be much more competitive at other circuits. I have no doubt that Adrian Newey will exploit any loophole in the regulations that he can find, but I don't think he's ever been an outright cheat. All the teams exploit any advantage they can find and will argue for or against intent of the regulations whenever it suits them. I find Horner quite unbearable, but all the teams are hypocritical when it comes to the intent of regulations.
Horner is on record for suggesting the regulations don’t and can’t have intent. RB have already been found to have interpreted in the rules around the plank in ways that they weren’t meant to be
But that’s fine, it’s how it’s always worked and how it inevitably has to work. The regulations are merely the means by which the FIA states its intent; if what they write fails to match that intent then that’s their problem, not the teams’. The terms’ intent is to build a car that’s faster than all the others, simple as that. It’s quite different to the issue at the end of last season where the FIA interpreted its own rules (“any cars”) without upholding its own intent.
Once the rules are written and handed over to the teams, intent is out of the window. The only consideration from then onwards is one of regulation and enforcement.
Thing is, the mechanical and electronic components can have fairly robust tests applied. Software perhaps less so (harking back to the suspicions surrounding Benetton in ‘94). Financials? I have no idea how they police that, or whether there’s a window whereby you can be operating in violation of the rules (but undetected) without also being illegally fraudulent. All teams will try to get the most they can out of their interpretation of the rules; a less scrupulous team might knowingly violate the rules if there were no means by which they could be found out; even less scrupulous teams might go further. Let’s not forget that F1 has long attracted such folks as Ecclestone, Mallya and plenty of others who have attracted allegations or convictions for fraud.
One thing’s for sure: the teams will have hired an extra accountant or two in advance of the cost cap coming in, and their brief will be quite parallel to that of Adrian Newey or any other TD: find the loopholes and exploit them.
Let's be honest - max could have won that race if it started with his car in the garage and him still getting changed into his race suit. That's a performance delta that we've not seen for a while, and in the past that sort of pace has evolved over a few races. To suddenly find it mid season is most unusual, especially with few publicly declared upgrades to a car that was possibly 2nd best over the first half of the season. I think we've seen enough from redbull to know the cars aren't treated equally so I'm not surprised that perez's pace was more "normal".
Max has been driving better than I've seen him this season and his lack of unforced errors is one reason he's so far ahead of Leclerc, but imo that doesn't explain the result in spa. He faces an expectant home crowd this weekend so he'll want to deliver again, but if there's still the same overall difference to perez and the ferraris I'm going to start suspecting that all is not as it seems.
No dream Ferrari drive for Mick...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/schumacher-to-cut-ferrari-ties-at-end-of-2022-f1-season/10360485/
...and unless he comes with a fat-wallet I can't see teams fighting for his services.
IIRC Zhou is bringing about £30m/year to Sauber. if he has access to the family fortune Schumacher can easily afford that, I don't know what his personal wealth is like but his dad has a wealth of roughly 1/3rd of Laurence Stroll's
if there’s still the same overall difference to perez and the ferraris I’m going to start suspecting that all is not as it seems.
Perez is a decent driver, but Max is an outstanding one. At the start of the year, the Red Bull was lacking front end grip (all the new cars did, it's a consequence of the new regulations). Perez can drive an understeering car up to its limit, so he was very close to Max's pace. As Red Bull developed the car, they found more front end grip and the car became trickier to drive on the limit - the rear end tends to step out and Max has the reflexes to deal with that but Perez has to back off to deal with it. The same thing happened to Albon, Gasly, and Kvyat - only Max could drive the Red Bull cars to their full potential because the rear end was too unpredictable. Red Bull have nothing to gain by handicapping Perez, it just makes no sense to do that. He just isn't as good a driver as Max, same as Bottas just wasn't able to sustain Hamilton's level.
This video shows why the Red Bull is so much faster. They can get the floor to seal without any bouncing.
https://twitter.com/EngineMode11/status/1564553894528794624
the-muffin-man
Full Member
No dream Ferrari drive for Mick…https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/schumacher-to-cut-ferrari-ties-at-end-of-2022-f1-season/10360485/
…and unless he comes with a fat-wallet I can’t see teams fighting for his services
To alpine then maybe?
To alpine then maybe?
I think everyone's going to McLaren these days, aren't they?
Rumour mill is that Alpine are after Gasly.
So when do we get to hear the outcome of the Contract Recognition Board?
