4 world titles to his name? Could be worse
The odd thing is that Redbull weren't toxic (as you put it) until Max came along. Now, whether they actually are, or are just having to be in order to stick with Max (and have Max stick with them), I genuinely don't know.
As for Seb, Seb is one of the nicest and funniest drivers, sure he has a temper and his skills seem to have waned in recent years, but if anything, I like him all the more. Seb, like Lewis seems to be all about activism and positivity these days. I'd imagine that those two will become good friends if they haven't already.
Needs a Wacky Races type commentary option, (other than that provided by DC.)
The Hamilton maturity started when he and his father went separate ways, albeit a couple of years of playboy fun followed.
Fair points, which I'll try to respond to. Yes, Seb had incredible success - but was also unceremoniously sidelined as soon as Ricciardo looked faster. None of us know what went on internally, but after bringing 4 WC had probably earned a little more respect.
As a Ferrari fan was delighted to see him move. Came agonizingly close in lesser machinery more than once.
Have his skills waned? Not quite sure....hunger and overarching desire to succeed at all costs, probably. Love to see Aston get the equation right and give Seb a competitive car next year as there are still flashes of brilliance to be seen there.
Red Bull toxicity seems to be shaped predominately by Horner, who has surpassed even Ron Dennis for being undignified in victory. Just like Ron was consumed with beating Ferrari at all costs with the mutters of favoritism, so it is with Horner & Mercedes. Toxicity driven out of a desire to succeed, but no way that is being shaped by Max IMHO. He is 25 years of age surrounded by people with way more life/management/political experience. Not sure if Dietrich Mateschitz envisioned his team winning like this?
Have I missed something, as nobody in the thread or anywhere has commented on if and why Max eventually gave up the lead to Hamilton?
Not sure if it was just his tyres giving up - it looked like he slowed a lot and even the crew said he didn't have to do it on the radio.
I'd like to think that guilt got the better of him and he didn't want to be remembered as a total dick, so gave the place up. I'm probably wrong though.
Have I missed something, as nobody in the thread or anywhere has commented on if and why Max eventually gave up the lead to Hamilton?
Yep, it was a weird one that
Really?
Did anyone really say all that? No. But then you know that.
Have I missed something, as nobody in the thread or anywhere has commented on if and why Max eventually gave up the lead to Hamilton?
Didn't he say something like he couldn't win by enough to overcome the time penalty so what was the point in pushing. Could be totally wrong.
Whuuuuut?!?
He's had his account hacked, surely
Has he been reading this thread lol
Wow! Was not expecting that in a millions years! Must be a glitch in the Matrix?
RB seem to be on a "if there's a crash it weren't us" campaign about the next race.
Unprecedented contrition from Darth Helmut
I hope RB screw up a pitstop, from rushing, leading to him having to retire due to a loose wheel nut.
Would be quite funny for him to try to barge someone off again, go wheel to wheel and end up flipping like Stroll at Bahrain last year. Low speed, no injury, but completely end his race because he won't back out. Like someone else said, would be even better if the RB car turns out to be completely dominant and Perez ends up winning the race with Hamilton 5 minutes behind in second place.
If Max does punt LH off and win this year, would it be fair for all the rest of the drivers to gang up and each take him out, one race each, next year?
Each team choose a race where they will not be doing well and then just swerve into Max while being over taken, drive straight on at a corner putting him in the gravel etc. Each driver gets one telling off but not enough to really cause them an issue and Max gets 23 DNFs.
Not suggesting it is sporting but if you want to push every rule to the limit and accept that professional fouls count as part of your race strategy, that might be considered an option
Must be a glitch in the
Matrix?Mateschitz
Elsewhere, that Marko quote is slightly different:
“At the time of the television interview, I passed on exactly the information I had previously received from the engineers,” he told f1-insider.com.
“They obviously weren’t right, so I’m sorry.”
Fair enough, that's the right thing to do.
It’s always amusing when they say - I haven’t seen the data - it’s not like they don’t have a room full of experts analysing the data in real time ….. 🤷♂️
“At the time of the television interview, I passed on exactly the information I had previously received from the engineers,[missed end of engineers comments] because he would be a complete dick to brake test LH with telemetry logging his actions[missed end of engineers comments]”
“They obviously weren’t right, so I’m sorry [missed quote end] but it appears that Max is a complete dick[/missed quote end].”
Would be quite funny for him to try to barge someone off again, go wheel to wheel and end up flipping like Stroll at Bahrain last year. Low speed, no injury, but completely end his race because he won’t back out.
Out of interest, has there ever been an occasion of an F1 car (or lower Formula) doing a full barrel roll and being able to carry on racing? Something fast enough to flip over but slow enough to not break everything.
I would think if you flipped it and carried on you'd be black flagged no matter what. The safety implications would be massive. Loading the suspension that had taken those landing lateral forces would be madness.
I have no doubt it'd be straight back to the pits to retire, just wondered if it had ever happended. All I can remember are either slow speed ones such as Hulk at Abu Dhabi left upside down "hanging like a cow" or the full speed multiple flips that end up pretty much just sat in a safety cell with no wheels or wings remaining.
Something fast enough to flip over but slow enough to not break everything.
I don't think you could accomplish both TBH. F1 cars are designed to suck onto the ground, and are built light for the obvious reasons. Enough force to get them into the air and rolling is probably going to be also sufficient to break something seriously enough to finish your race. If you tried, you'd probably be black flagged for your own and everyone else's safety.
Certainly never seen it with open wheels, rally cars get away with it a lot more due to the big cage and the wheels having a little bit of protection
pocpoc
Out of interest, has there ever been an occasion of an F1 car (or lower Formula) doing a full barrel roll and being able to carry on racing? Something fast enough to flip over but slow enough to not break everything.
I would expect it is impossible. The forces required to flip the car at a speed high enough to allow it to go all the way over & carry on would be high enough to break/damage the car. It's not like they have a James Bond-esque barrel roll ramp at the side of the track.
Would be even harder for cars with downforce, as you would not only have to overcome the weight of the car, but the downforce as well.
Elsewhere, that Marko quote is slightly different:
“At the time of the television interview, I passed on exactly the information I had previously received from the engineers,” he told f1-insider.com.
“They obviously weren’t right, so I’m sorry.”
Nothing from the Whinger Spice contrition department?
Not a barrel roll, but Christan Fittipaldi managed to finish a race (just) after flipping his Minardi, before landing on the wheels and rolling over the line at Monza in 1993 😆
Would be even harder for cars with downforce, as you would not only have to overcome the weight of the car, but the downforce as well.
When you're upsidedown, the downforce becomes upforce *taps forehead*.
It’s not like they have a James Bond-esque barrel roll ramp at the side of the track.
I bet Bernie pitched it.
Bond ramps - If they increase some of those sausage kerbs a bit more then then could have!
Haivng said that, one of the W-series drivers suffered fracture vertebrae at COTA this year from bouncing off one on turn 1 that was then removed for the F1 race because of it.
Fittipaldi flip - still had 2 wheels on - Alonso would have nursed that back round to the pits.
None of these (bar Fittipaldi) made it across the line but some spectacular airborne incidents...
Edit - has to be watched on YouTube so click on the linky 🙂
As Mashr days, just go and watch some rallying, I'm amazed what little of a car they get round a track in! Can't think of it in single-seaters though
sockpuppet
FWIW I don’t think it has been gradual, it’s been quite marked. And it’s come home to roost: now Max is saying “it was ok in Brasil, what’s up with it now?”
He was doing and getting away with stupid shit back at least as far as 2016 tbf
https://twitter.com/_Regenmeister/status/1468130704001323009
In other news. Can't say the usually very slick Merc PR machine has done them a whole load of favours over all of this...
A dreadful commercial decision, but at least they’ve dropped them in a week.
Fittipaldi didnt so much ‘flip and continue’ as much as ‘hadn’t finished crashing yet when he inadvertently crossed the line’!
@multi21 - and around that time every time Vettel and Verstappen were within a car’s length there was an incident. But back then it was Vettel that got criticised on here.
Now Vettel cruising round mid field in a gig of a car is in the top couple of overtakers for the year (to be fair he has more opportunity than in his championship RB days, or even at Ferrari), which you can’t do without being half decent at sharing a track (Sunday not withstanding).
We sometimes form judgements too quickly.
We sometimes form judgements too quickly
Hopefully the subtext of that isn't that people have rushed to judge one Mr M.V.?
They should just put Kimi as sole adjudicator of all on track action. You’d get no problems then. 😂😂
Hopefully the subtext of that isn’t that people have rushed to judge one Mr M.V.?
I find it hard to settle on an opinion of him. When he first arrived he did what I thought was the right thing: establish a clear reputation as uncompromising and fearless on track. Over time that should have settled a bit; I was expecting him to exercise a little more judgement in terms of when to really dig his heels in.
That didn’t really happen, and we got a volatile mix of brilliance and over-reaching ambition until Monaco 2018. From then on he’s been solidly delivering top performances. A few moments, like the collision with Ocon at Interlagos and his conduct afterwards, but overall just generally obliterating teammates and getting everything out of the car.
Then this year. For the first half I was impressed: still the exceptional driving, this time with a better car, and generally admirably stoic, most notably after Silverstone when the rest of the team lost their heads. But then in the second half the cracks have started to show again: Monza’s crash was just unnecessary, Brazil was deeply unprofessional, and Saudi was a complete mess: the over-aggressive moves in the corners was one thing and entirely predictable, but the braking incident was off the chart. He’s remained largely rational in interviews but the subtext is often very clear. He knows what he’s doing on track, and he doesn’t care what anyone else’s view on it is, including the stewards and the FIA: he will do whatever it takes to avoid losing his grip on the trophy.
A shame, really, because I had quite changed my view of him early in the year. But I think the pressure is just bringing out his true colours again. Oddly I wondered during the early stages of qualifying whether now we’re at the sharp end of things we might see him repeat his once-regular Monaco qualifying errors, and so we did. Regrettably I find myself wanting to see him crack under the pressure this weekend.
Is it just that it's easier to hold a moral highground / 'sportsmanlike' attitude when you're in the faster car? Perhaps if the cars were evenly matched, Hamilton would be scrapping harder (like at Silverstone)?
I think Max has actually had the faster car for most of the season, yet he's still managed to act like a dick on more occasions than Lewis.
