MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Unbelievable Jeff.
What a race and I was only listening on R5L.
It was a nasty race, no one came out of todays race looking good, sport lost.
Does anyone know what the turn 27 incident that is being investigated after the race is?
It’s for the collision incident
If Verstappen did brake test him, it’s going to get very spicy.
Horners face wasn’t very optimistic after the race
Hopefully they can get telemetry, if he stamped on the brakes like a petulant child, then surely they have to give him a kicking for brake testing
So from from the onboard - have you ever seen someone drop 5 gears to let someone past. You barely get a lift in normal circumstances.
Would be absolutely astounded if he tapped the brake, everyone knows these things are monitored in minute detail
On the incident when he hit the back of Verstappen: "I don't understand why he hit the brakes quite heavily so I ran into the back of him. It was a bit confusing."
that statement shows great maturity.
Would be absolutely astounded if he tapped the brake, everyone knows these things are monitored in minute detail
Well, verstappen apparently thinks the rules only apply to others, so who knows…
I'm not a big F1 follower, but watching this side by side, I don't see or hear Hamilton accelerate into him, and yet the gap closes very fast at the end. Brake test, or just lifting off completely, not sure, but does seem like MV went backwards fast rather than LH forward.
So from from the onboard – have you ever seen someone drop 5 gears to let someone past. You barely get a lift in normal circumstances.
Because usually the guy is straight past rather than also slowing down.
The whole situation is mental though either way
Looked like he was (excessively?) engine braking rather than pressing the pedal.
From the sound of Max’s engine/downshifts, it doesn’t sound like he’s hit the brakes (engine braking/regen notwithstanding), if I’m honest. My issue is him doing what he did in the middle of the track, whilst moving around.
I actually have a fair bit of respect for Max, but he did choose an odd place to step 3/4 of a car width aside and let Lewis through.
He was trying to manipulate where Hamilton passed so as to get DRS on him to retake the lead. Hamilton didn't come past, he slowed more. Neither of them knew what the other was doing.
I'll bet thats what the stewards find
Let’s not forget that the stewards also appear to be partially to blame as Merc hasn’t been told about the place swap (again, bonkers)
Whichever way you look at it Max slowed down fast very near to the racing line when the normal thing is to pull off to the side and lift gently, making your intentions very clear. He was playing a game and playing it dangerously.
Max is a dirty driver and this time he has massively overstepped the mark.
Nothing will be done though
My issue is him doing what he did in the middle of the track, whilst moving around.
As Hill said, whether its an excuse or the truth, Max will just say he was unsure which side Lewis was going to overtake him on. Watching it several times now, it could be deliberate or it could be a totally confused cluster ****, I can't make my mind up which it is.
I reckon a little of column A, a little of column B.
He was trying to manipulate where Hamilton passed so as to get DRS on him to retake the lead. Hamilton didn’t come past, he slowed more. Neither of them knew what the other was doing.
He was playing silly buggers on a track that’s been proven to be dangerous.
Lift off and coast a bit is the normal way to let other drivers past.
Nothing will be done though
^^That - a perfect season end in F1’s eyes.
Max just said in a Sky interview that he was braking and downshifting to let Hamilton by. If that is true then it's a slam dunk disqualification or worse.
Just as a reminder, he was well over to the right when he started slowing, but then not so much…
It's not how I read the situation, but I do hope that you're right TJ - I've no desire to see this WDC lost on penalties following a stewards' investigation.
tjagain
.He was trying to manipulate where Hamilton passed so as to get DRS on him to retake the lead. Hamilton didn’t come past, he slowed more. Neither of them knew what the other was doing.
I’ll bet thats what the stewards find
Possibly but there is or used to be at least, a rule whereby you may not immediately retake the position. I vaguely recall Kimi doing it a few years back.
If that is true then it’s a slam dunk disqualification or worse.
Well no….. by your own words he said “to let him past”. MV didn’t know the LH hadn’t had the call to go past, from the video he was far to the right at the beginning before it went weird. So it would likely go down as ill-judged rather than malicious and the penalty has already been served, another Silverstone
I’ve no desire to see this WDC lost on penalties following a stewards’ investigation.
I’ve little desire to keep watching if persistent rule breaking like max’s goes unpunished (or worse, isn’t even investigated). And I love F1 as a driving and engineering contest, so I’d miss it sorely. But today wasn’t sport.
I see Karen horner is blaming Hamilton for the incident. Who knew.....
So it would likely go down as ill-judged rather than malicious and the penalty has already been served, another Silverstone
He brakes on a straight and changed his line, that's seriously poor driving standards by anyone, let alone a F1 driver. If you did that in a club race you'd be getting a mark on your license as a minimum!
and the penalty has already been served
I'm confused - wasn't the five seconds for 'exceeding track limits', ie earlier shenanigans, rather than the way he handed back the place and the resulting collision?
He brakes in a straight and changed his line
If the telemetry shows braking, he's screwed, but I don't think it will. Any downshifting and more than the lightest lifting off is almost as bad though. All he had to do was get right off the racing line and lift slightly and Hamilton is through.
What a race and I was only listening on R5L.
Far and away the best way to follow a race
I’m confused – wasn’t the five seconds for ‘exceeding track limits’, ie earlier shenanigans, rather than the way he handed back the place and the resulting collision?
Yep, for leaving track limits
I’m confused – wasn’t the five seconds for ‘exceeding track limits’, ie earlier shenanigans, rather than the way he handed back the place and the resulting collision?
I’m not even sure anymore! The timing made me (and Autosport iirc) think it was one way but it could have been the other.
Check the video above, at around 4-5 seconds he seems to gently lift off with loads of room to the side. But as LH doesn’t know what’s happening he kinda stays behind him also slowing. Then the weird bit happens of course
Russell speaking some sense…
To be honest whether Max or Lewis wins, the majority of races this season have been incredibly dull. DRS is the stupidest F1 invention ever. When you have to introduce DRS to spice up the racing you know something is not right. I’ve been watching Michael Fassbender Road to Le Mans. Knocks F1 into a cocked hat. However I want Lewis to win just to see Horner’s face. What an incredibly unpleasant team boss he is.
If he does get penalised for causing a collision, that's most likely either another 10 seconds or a grid penalty for Abu Dhabi. How far back were Bottas/Ocon?
If there’s so many infractions you’re left guessing which it is, it implies something about driving standards. IMO.
The five second penalty was for not handing back a place to Hamilton after overtaking him by cutting a corner. Either Red Bull themselves ordered Max not to cede the place, or Max overruled an instruction from race control. Either way, a time penalty applies.
Any news from the stewards yet?
Verstappen is summoned to the stewards for an alleged breach of Breach of Article 2 (d) Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code.
This says: "Causing a collision. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of any driver concerned."
DRS is the stupidest F1 invention ever. When you have to introduce DRS to spice up the racing you know something is not right.
Kinda with you, but without DRS things would be even more grim under current regs. Keep everything crossed for some improvement next year
Any news from the stewards yet?
At their current decision making speed we may get a decision by sometime in 2023! 🤣🤣
Any news from the stewards yet?
There's a lot of drivers to interview. Max is in there for "an alleged breach of Breach of Article 2 (d) Chapter IV Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code.
This says: "Causing a collision. Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of any driver concerned."
(From the BBC website)
Lewis is in there for "a discussion" which could be anything from an opportunity to give his point of view to a reprimand or a warning for his own driving.
Surely Lewis would’ve lost downforce while being brake tested which makes it easier to understand how he went into the back of Veerstappen (Best spelling mistake ever!!)
Helmet Marko is grumbling about Hamilton not being penalized According to Albert Fabrega
Horner is probably on hold for the Area Manager as I type.
Joking aside, both drivers on level points for next weekend bodes well. Dr/MrsPJM1974's uncle Robert will be staying with us, he's a massive fan of F1 so we'll be watching the race in seven days.
From BBC
Posted at 20:4620:46
Post update
The stewards want to speak to Lewis Hamilton regarding his duel with title contender Max Verstappen.
I do wish they'd make an announcement - the wife wants to watch Dr Who.
Whatever the outcome of any stewards' enquiries I think by walking off the podium, Max has proved that his "I don't feel any stress, it doesn't matter if I don't win this year" stance is just garbage. Why not just say "yeah of course it's stressful fighting for WDC" and seem more human.....IAMAF1D
Races like this I wonder what Charlie would have done. I like Massi but I think Charlie would have got a handle on things more quickly and with a firmer hand.
Michael Massi is not the only steward https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-stewards-who-are-they-what-do-they-do-how-are-they-chosen-6500572/6500572/
Well what a mess that race was!
I have to say I think most of it comes from the stewards and the Brazil decision. Now Max feels he can drive how he wants and never get challenged for it.
Oh and I think this circuit needs some changes before next year.
Michael Massi is not
the onlya steward
He’s the race director. But he can report stuff to the stewards.
Seems a shame Bottas wasn't within 5s of Verstappen, that way they could give Verstappen a 5s penalty to effectively take off 3 points. Then assuming they're both in the top few places next race you'd still have the championship going to whichever beats the other without having to worry about who needs to be x places back, but without Verstappen having the mentality that he still wins if they take each other out. Not sure if there's another way to do that.
Of course it shouldn't work like that, they should just enforce the rules and penalties should be based on actions not consequences, but I think that principle went out of the window a while ago.
Michael Massi is not the only steward
He's not a steward, he's the race director, surely (and don't call me Shirley)
Races like this I wonder what Charlie would have done. I like Massi but I think Charlie would have got a handle on things more quickly and with a firmer hand.
Absolutely. Charlie would’ve controlled this season in a much better way. There’s been too many nervous decisions by Massi this season.
Races like this I wonder what Charlie would have done. I like Massi but I think Charlie would have got a handle on things more quickly and with a firmer hand.
Same here
I don’t think race control had any control over the race today.
The teams don’t have the respect for Messi like they did for Charlie, and challenge him all the time. In these times he must be able to relay things simultaneously to the teams, rather then saying he can only push one button at a time.
There’s been too many nervous decisions by Massi this season
I think I probably agree but from what I understand in previous years you wouldn't have had the (pathetic sounding) chat between teams and the race director
MV needs telling that he's going to be dsq if there's a collision between him and Hamilton in the next race.
Might calm him down a bit!
Both Hamilton and Verstappen have been summoned to the stewards for causing a collision. Hamilton isn’t just in there for a chat.
After a similar road accident in July that is still waiting to be resolved, I am going to call AXA in the morning to ask for their opinion of the incident.
You've always had the chatter. Team bosses were always checking in with Charlie. Difference being of Charlie told them to sod off and so being silly they did.
Also the chatter eye race control has only recently (this year?) started being broadcast
So glad Lewis got the win. MV should go to touring cars soon.
My fear is that there's a very strong chance MV will take Lewis out in the final race.
I was going to ask earlier, I know it is only recent thing that we get to hear the teams talking to the race director, but is it just this year that it has become so obvious because of the contention, or has it just started this year.
From what they said on telly earlier, it's only started being broadcast this year (and I think they should probably stop now)
(and I think they should probably stop now)
From a sporting point of view yes, but I suspect the commercial people are quite happy with all the public whining.
There was something Massi said on the radio, while mercedes were saying they hadn't been told that Verstappen had been ordered to give the place up, that sounded like he had gone to speak to one or both teams in person. I did wonder if he'd want to do something like that to be able to tell them to just knock it off, in a manner that he might not have wanted broadcasting...
MV needs telling that he’s going to be dsq if there’s a collision between him and Hamilton in the next race.
Might calm him down a bit!
Might 😀
Wonder if the rules would let them DQ him for todays antics but suspend it for one race? They won’t obviously, wasn’t anywhere near bad enough, but that would leave it as winner takes all next week, but remove any incentive for MV to take LH out.
oh this page is gonna have a meltdown when they see the outcome…..
So the telemetry shows a brake application from Verstappen causing the collision and the penalty is effectively nothing?
With all the pit-to-car communication available, how come Hamilton wasn't made aware that Verstappen had been told to let him past? That whole issue seems a bit random. Maybe the cars need to be fitted with indicators 🙂
Yup, not his fault Bottas was miles away
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scotroutes
Full MemberWith all the pit-to-car communication available, how come Hamilton wasn’t made aware that Verstappen had been told to let him past? That whole issue seems a bit random. Maybe the cars need to be fitted with indicators
Race control hadn’t told Mercedes yet, adding their own bit of spice to the overall mess
So he did brake test him. Which is a/ disgraceful, and b/ idiotic to think telemetry won't show it up.
And makes Horner and Marko look like bellends for defending/denying it when one assumes the team would have had that data almost immediately.
Just had the news of the steward's findings.
Absolute disgrace. Deliberately braking in the middle of a fast straight, causing a competitor to hit you and being found to have done so dangerously is dealt with by 10 second penalty and 2 points on your license? Any other series and that would have been a disqualification and a race ban.
Max and Red Bull are bringing the sport into disrepute and they don't care. If they win either or both championships then they will be forever tainted. Massi and the stewards need to have a good, hard look at the precedents they are setting with these decisions as at some point it's going to lead to a massive crash.
I'll have to give it a lot of thought over the winter break whether this version of F1 is one I want to watch.
oh this page is gonna have a meltdown when they see the outcome…..
How right you are. Its really rather funny as well as predictable.
Both drivers level on points. If both crash out next weekend then by virtue of more wins, Max is WDC.
That ^^^ reprimand is an absolute pisstake. @reluctantjumper has nailed it in a much more eloquent manner than I can manage, hear hear 👏.
The cynic in me would be surprised if the WDC were decided upon a Verstappen DQ and Hamilton then waltzing to a win at Abu Dhabi, which would otherwise be stuffed with rich folk buying shit.
Good, the race report officially finds Max a cheat, correct result.
A 2.4g braketest according to the report!??!! :-O
Race control hadn’t told Mercedes yet, adding their own bit of spice to the overall mess
Jeez - what a cock-up. You'd surely think that penalties - especially that particular one - would be communicated to all teams/drivers simultaneously. I wonder if the stewards realise that culpability and have applied the penalty in respect of that.
A 2.4g braketest according to the report!??!! :-O
Is that correct? Was the brake pedal pressed or was it a lift off and aero drag deceleration? I genuinely haven't seen the report BTW.
Good, the race report officially finds Max a cheat, correct result.
No it doesn’t.
Max went too far today. He needs to learn and get that extra maturity that sometimes it’s better to finish second and bank the points and he could’ve already been champion by now. And maybe without looking like an idiot.
It says in the report posted above. 69bar of pressure going through the brakes.
MV is dangerous. I’ve always thought so. I sincerely hope he’s never the cause of a serious or fatal accident but I’m worried it might happen.