MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
mashr
I’d bet nobody loses pace because of it. It’s not as blatant as when Merc were runing under pressure. I reckon they’ll all be at it and it’s all marginal gains stuff (remember it was the least stressed tyres going at Baku rather than the ones doing all the work)
Yes true, it's not that huge of a difference. It's only got to save a handful seconds over an entire stint to be worthwhile though.
If the 'cheat' is running the tyres at low pressure, then i suppose it makes sense that a relatively unloaded one would fail. The loaded ones get hotter and therefore run at higher pressure, therefore less flex in the sidewall.
Also the lesser loaded tyre will spend more time dragging the inner edge along the tarmac due to the camber, maybe that's why they both failed on the inner sidewall.
Ocon has signed with Alpine until 2025. Significant, because Ocon was a junior Merc driver managed by Toto Wolff and was theoretically in contention for the second seat at Mercedes.
It's a straight choice now between Russell and Bottas.
If Bottas leaves Merc, where would he go ?
Williams, surely?
Finland?
Williams is the obvious one. Now that their finances are stable, they could use an experienced driver to help develop the car under the new rules. Not sure what Kimi's contract situation is, but Sauber would be the other obvious one. Haas would probably benefit from having him, but not sure they will want to pay for him.
Five quid says around the summer break Mercedes announce Hamilton and Russell, both on two-year contracts.
In which case, Bottas either in a Williams or a rally car.
Bottas either in a Williams or a rally car
or *shudders* Extreme E
Broadly agreed, although I won't be surprised to see Hamilton opt for a year's extension with an option for extension. If incorrect, a fiver will go to a charity of my choice.
Five quid says around the summer break Mercedes announce Hamilton and Russell, both on two-year contracts.
Williams would do a lot worse than to snap up Bottas over yet another junior driver that won't necessarily develop the car in the right direction.
Depends what Williams ambitions are and how deep their pockets are - he's not going to trundle round at the back for 500k a year! 🙂
Interesting about Ocon's contract, wouldn't be surprised if there isn't an option in the contract to recall him to Merc should his services become required in a year or two.
I'm pretty sure Ocon is a free agent. Only connection to Mercedes now is Toto is his manager.
the-muffin-man
Full MemberDepends what Williams ambitions are and how deep their pockets are – he’s not going to trundle round at the back for 500k a year! 🙂
Unless there's not a better option on the table from elsewhere
the-muffin-man
Full MemberI’m pretty sure Ocon is a free agent. Only connection to Mercedes now is Toto is his manager.
Posted 32 minutes ago
Right you are, i misremembered
please
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It's pretty much the only way to make Paul Ricard entertaining that's for sure
Be careful what you wish for.
Max will spin off and Horner will blame Mercedes because it was the wrong sort of rain! 🤣
The French GP is generally a snoozefest, but a dash of rain would liven it up enormously.
Shock horror...Mazespin is facing backwards....
Hamilton and Bottas swapped cars for this weekend. Now Hamilton's complaining that there's something not right with the car.
Quite enjoying hearing these radio convos with Michael Masi.
Team: "Can you can get rid of those yellow kerbs? We've just done 100 grand there"
MM: "Nope, the teams asked for this you ****wit"
(paraphrasing slightly)
Hamilton and Bottas swapped cars for this weekend. Now Hamilton’s complaining that there’s something not right with the car.
I realise that it's never quite so simple as this, given that both drivers will have their own setup choices but wouldn't it be a turn up if Bottas's car was a pup? Anyway, isn't Bottas's car all new after the Russell coming together earlier in the year?
Hamilton and Bottas swapped cars for this weekend.
Why on Earth would they do that?
Anyway, isn’t Bottas’s car all new after the Russell coming together earlier in the year?
Yes. And the old one had been on the podium before George wrecked it...
Still seems an odd thing to do though, surely they get familiar with one?
.
I remember in 14 and 15 Hamilton won the title, just in 14 and easily in 15, then Mercedes swapped the mechanics over and Rosberg won in 16 with Hamilton's old mechanics. I like that Mercedes are so even handed with their drivers.
Personally, I think another factor was Hamilton getting complacent in early 16 after an easy win in 15 and then being too far behind to catch up once he realised he had a fight on his hands. IIRC Bottas 2.0 was in the lead 4 races in a couple of years ago but I think Hamilton had learned from the 16 experience and upped his game early enough to do something about it.
Bottas leaves Merc, where would he go ?
i suspect that largely depends if someone is prepared to pay him what he will want to trundle round in the back half of the grid assuming he would rather do that then retire
Still seems an odd thing to do though, surely they get familiar with one?
In theory, they should be basically identical. Each driver will have some parts customized for them (seat, pedals, steering wheel etc.), plus engines and gearboxes are assigned to a driver. All those parts will be swapped to the new chassis, plus aerodynamic and suspension parts will probably be swapped out regularly so they're really only talking about the carbon-fibre tub that everything bolts onto. If a driver can tell the difference between one tub and another after swapping all the parts, then there's a problem.
Ooh, NOT Mazepin!
Give him a chance!
Still not Mazepin!
It is a Haas though...
Haas looks properly shit.
F1 twerk
so, dark skies over the circuit 😀
Enjoyed that - good race!
Great race by Red Bull, looks like the back-office boffins at Mercedes called it wrong!
Good race, lots of overtaking and exciting to the very end. Will Verstapen and Red Bull be able to continue to beat Hamilton and Mercedes on a regular basis and win the championship. Mercedes seem to be making more mistakes than they normally do, such as their strategy today.
Well, who said the French GP was going to be a boredfest!?
Really enjoyed that. I though that after 10 laps or so it would just settle down but the high wear rate on the tyres caught everyone out, especially Mercedes. Some great passed through the field and not much was a given over the last 10 or so laps.
Does that mean Austria is destined to be a boring procession instead to make up for it? 🤣
think it shows (on some circuits) the most bold and pro-active team wins.... mercs did it to red bull earlier in the season and now they've been on the receiving end of their own tactic
Hondas decision to leave seems to always have this effect. Look what happened last time they left!
Payback indeed. Great to see two teams fight it out. Bottas getting closer to his p45 judging by the outburst in the car. Amazing to see Russell push the Williams around the track above a Alpine, Ferarri and an Alfa whilst his team mate is sitting somewhere below.
Bottas getting closer to his p45 judging by the outburst in the car.
Sounds like both Bottas and Lewis felt 2 stop was the way to go before the race.
If Mercedes can get Red Bull to blow the budget chasing this championship while keeping a lid on their spend by just doing enough then it could favour Merc again for the new regs.
Great race, really didn't expect that from Paul Ricard.
Apparently only the 10th race ever with no retirements.
Merc always relied on a car advantage and it used to help hugely with tactics. Now its a lot closer they are getting shown up for been a little slow and lax.
Now RB have clearly the faster car Merc seem a very much at sea with tactics.
In Ferraris cheat year, it is pretty widely accepted that Ferrari had the faster car for the majority of the season. It was Mercedes more meticulous analysis of unfolding situations rather than knee jerk reactions that swung the advantage back to merc. Maybe it won't work out for them so well this time but I don't think merc should throw away their winning methodology yet.
I was surprised how easily Verstappen got past Hamilton, was it so late that Hamilton thought he'd never stop in time?
Bottas makes it harder for Hamilton to overtake than he does for Verstappen...
Both Mercs tyres were knackered, they were seconds per lap slower, I don't think they had any fight in them.
Now RB have clearly the faster car Merc seem a very much at sea with tactics.
By the time they had to commit to either a one or two stop, I don’t think the one-stop was a bad decision. If they’d switched to two stops they still would have been behind on the road and needed to pass on track. Do you rely on Hamilton’s ability to look after his tyres and retain track position, or do you rely on his ability to pass on track? The latter isn’t helped by the fact that the Red Bull was set up with low wing on a track with a couple of decent straights, that it was Verstappen that he’d be up against, and—most crucially—that they wouldn’t have had any tyre offset without throwing away as much time as they’d gain from it.
I think their mistake wasn’t that they went one-stop with Hamilton, it was earlier: that they didn’t switch Hamilton and Bottas two or three laps into the second stint to let Bottas burn Verstappen’s tyres out. If they’d done that, Hamilton could have just lurked a couple of seconds back and had much better tyres at the end, which should have comfortably bagged the win. It’s only if that didn’t work out they’d have needed to go to a two-stop with Bottas.
But then, everyone seemed to be a bit caught out by the wear rate on the hards, so who knows what everyone’s race models looked like at that point.
It's only tenths of a second here and there. Bottas could have put up a tiny bit more of a fight and Mercedes could have had a slightly quicker pit stop. Gain a second between those two and Hamilton might still have won.
One thing I do struggle to figure out is why Mercedes didn’t bring Bottas in once Perez had passed him, so as to get the fastest lap. Makes no sense, they had almost enough time to stop twice before Norris would have caught them.
One thing I do struggle to figure out is why Mercedes didn’t bring Bottas in once Perez had passed him, so as to get the fastest lap.
Because Perez went off-track to pass him so there was the chance of a penalty. Perez wasn't penalized though, so Max got the bonus point. Still a poor decision though because Perez was so much faster that Bottas was more than 5 seconds behind at the finish.
To me, the Merc strategy went wrong when they didn't bring Hamilton in straight after Max and gave Red Bull the undercut. The undercut was larger than Merc calculated, but surely they should have brought Hamilton in anyway.
My guess is that Merc figured they had a faster car so just played it conservatively, whereas Red Bull knew they had to gamble on strategy. The tyre degradation was much higher than everyone expected because the rain cleaned the circuit, so that threw Merc's calculations off.
On a brighter note, McLaren were very impressive. Good to see Ricciardo looking like he's getting up to speed. Ferrari just looked lost. A few more results like that and both teams will probably decide to switch all their effort to developing next year's cars. If Merc and Red Bull are forced to keep developing their cars through the summer, it might give those two teams a chance of closing the gap next year.
One thing I do struggle to figure out is why Mercedes didn’t bring Bottas in once Perez had passed him, so as to get the fastest lap. Makes no sense, they had almost enough time to stop twice before Norris would have caught them.
I wondered about this - the TV even showed the pit crew coming out with tyres, although Perez was still behind at that point. So I thought they were waiting until Perez got past, and then there was the possibility of a 5 second penalty for Perez for track limits, so Bottas had to stay out until there was at least a 5 second gap. I think that happened with about 3 laps to go, so just about time to have a go at fastest lap.
By the time they had to commit to either a one or two stop, I don’t think the one-stop was a bad decision
Agreed, Martin Brundle said in the commentary something along the lines of "Track position always trumps second guessing your tactics" You've no idea what's going to happen in a race, you're in the lead, the tyres will last (at least in theory) and your opponent have got come into the pits, change tyres, get through the field, to catch you, pass you and hang one to end...literally anything could've happened to the RB to stop that happening, meanwhile you're sailing on round the track in first place, happy as a lop.
Ah yes, I’d forgotten the 5 second thing. Took a bit longer that expected for Perez to get past, as well—seemed like he wasn’t getting too much out of his tyres. To be honest I was surprised his first stint wasn’t a bit longer, I was expecting them to use him to let Verstappen past after the first stop and then put a few seconds’ delay into the Mercedes.
Weirdly it seemed like for the first time this season both teams had their second drivers in play and could have gained from using them, but didn’t.
Odd race all round, I thought. Props to Vettel for the early pass on the Alpine, though—that was the move of the day by some margin.
To me, the Merc strategy went wrong when they didn’t bring Hamilton in straight after Max and gave Red Bull the undercut. The undercut was larger than Merc calculated, but surely they should have brought Hamilton in anyway
I thought he came in next lap? They'd have had to commit to bringing him in first, without knowing when Max would pit otherwise.
Was a bit strange to not switch Bottas to a two-stop but even if their data showed he'd be caught (and likely passed) as few laps before the end, as has been said, it doesn't mean there won't be an incidents on track that might prevent that happening (and if that happened they'd get criticised for throwing away 3rd place just based on data showing he'd be caught).
Having both drivers wreck their hard tyres keeping up with Max did seem a bad call though
New layout for Abu Dhabi race
I thought he came in next lap?
Sorry, that should have been "straight after Bottas", which would have been on the same lap as Max. They left him out for an extra lap, which gave Max the undercut.
Fair play to the Abu Dhabi guys, some significant changes being made to the track for this year
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/new-banked-corner-part-of-abu-dhabi-f1-track-changes/6602969/
I'm unconvinced that those changes are going to spice up the racing that much - the turn at the end of the back straight was already a passing opportunity but probably needed tightening up to give a bigger braking area rather than feeding into a banked turn which will reduce the braking demand. The change tp the other hairpin is more likely to give passing, but I'd have thought they'd want to slow the cars down round the hotel so the people paying $$$$ for those suites get a better view 🙂
Yeah sounds like they've had a good crack at it within the space available. Wonder how 'banked' it will actually be?
Wall of death banked hopefully 😁
No SAFER barriers mentioned, so not very I'd guess. Certainly they are saying all the right things, would be a shame if they've put in some nice changes and accidentally reduced it to 1 overtaking area....... theres a thought, its DRS into that banking. That could be quite interesting. More Super Speedway style overtaking rather than doing it under hard braking.
Heres's hoping anyway
For some reason (possibly that the only excitement it’s provided has been the possibility of championship-deciding overtakes that haven’t actually happened) I’ve never even really noticed what the Yas Marina layout is. Hopefully it’ll be worth paying attention to now.
Yas Marina was one of those frustrating tracks where a better layout was already there on the ground. All they really needed to do was remove the chicane before the hairpin. Fair play for taking a look a the whole circuit and making some more changes too.
Now if someone could have a similar word with the guys at Barcelona
So, in his continuing bid to lose his seat, Bottas spun in the pit lane in FP2...could have taken out the Mclaren pit crew. He's been summoned to the stewards
Here.
Looks like he's ruined a set of tyres of tyres in about five yards
Oopsie! That is really quite bad.
With skills like that he's sure to get a seat at Haas next year - Mazepin Sr would pay Bottas a fortune to make his kid look good 😀
45 seconds in, just gives you an idea of the speed those things get up to in the first second or so. And that's practice so I guess not really gunning either!
Amazing what perceptuons different camera angles can create, the usual shots dont look that fast
Has anyone managed to spin a car in the pit lane before?
Lucky to get away with a 3 place grid penalty
I cant recall anyone doing it in practice or when leaving the box.
There's been a few hit the pit entry walls on the way in during a race and a few bumping other cars or the front jack man
Are we sure Toto wasn't giving Mazaspin a test drive?
😃😃😃
Places to not try something new: 1. A busy pit lane
I don't buy the excuse that the wheelspin was more in second than they expected, normally you go a gear higher to reduce the wheelspin risk. Maybe they were trying to lay some rubber down on the concrete for better traction and he just overcooked it.
I cant recall anyone doing it in practice or when leaving the box.
There’s been a few hit the pit entry walls on the way in during a race and a few bumping other cars or the front jack man
Might give C4 an excuse to roll out the clip of Coulthard binning it on the way into the pitlane at Adelaide though 🤣
(which I believe was put down to a sticking throttle)