Where's Toto? Can we have a comment please
Where’s Toto?
...he's trying to find a handy-man to fill in the punch holes in the stewards room walls! 🙂
The alleged underfueling of perez is interesting - had Lattifi not binned racing shadows, could Perez have conked out just at the right point to trigger the SC? 😂
Borrowed from elsewhere
All of these new F1 fans are going to be bitterly disappointed when the first race of next season has no overtakes at all, as is the usual tradition
Made me chuckle
I think somebody posted this before, but I didn't twig:
WWF
F1 is now just like American wrestling, the spectacle is more important than the sport.
The alleged underfueling of perez is interesting – had Lattifi not binned racing shadows, could Perez have conked out just at the right point to trigger the SC?
No more ridiculous than asking your driver to crash to force an SC. But that would nev… oh, wait.
Not watched F1 in years, in fact last time I watched a fast pit stop was 7 seconds or so.
Watched first corner and thought well that’s a bit daft, Hamilton would have been in the crash barrier back in the day.
Went out with the dog for a walk and watched the last 20 minutes and the keys make it up as we go along
Did absolutely nothing to make me want to watch F1 again, and I think they have shut themselves in the foot with all the hype before and such a shambles at the end.
Do less people watch F1 these days?
Nice to see Lewis with his Dad at the end, obviously telling his son to not seek revenge or saying anything daft, respect to Lewis for keeping his cool
F1 is now just like American wrestling, the spectacle is more important than the sport.
That’s WWE, the quote was about panda racing
And that cost Piquet his F1 career.
Mercedes are appealing the decision according to Sky Sports News
If I was Mercedes I'd now release something like this "as an f1 team we race within the regulations. Whilst we feel that regulations weren't correctly applied today, for the good of F1 we're going to accept the result...but Masi should resign"
yep agree with above.. Toto et al are really grasping at straws and looking as unsporting as Red Bull
Some one tweet this to Toto please
Shame for Max as well I think. All but the most one eyed F1 followers know that he’s not really the winner of that race.
To suggest 48.13 overrides 48.12 in this case is drivel.
Wonder what algorithm the teams will use to factor random rule changes into their pit strategies next year.
I believe there is already a strategic tool for predicting such events
If Perez had got third, and Botas dropped down a place, how would that have affected the contructors?
I think the *only* way for F1 / FIA to come out of this in any half decent light would be to acknowledge that the rules were not applied fairly / consistently / in the spirit of the sport on this occasion and announce that MV and LH will be joint champions.
That's not going to happen now of course but this will just rumble on and on.
If Perez had got third, and Botas dropped down a place, how would that have affected the contructors?
Wouldn’t. Merc only needed a 2nd place to secure it, regardless of red bulls finishing position.
All but the most one eyed F1 followers know that he’s not really the winner of that race.
But if it was any other race than a title decider* it’d be a case of “shit happens”
*and if not for the bizarre no unlapping call flip/flop
In the days when Balestre was head of FISA we all knew that he was a dictator, made up new rules on the spur of the moment and favoured Prost over Senna. That was OK because the whole sport was pretty amateur in those days and a successful season was one where no one died.
But we were supposed to have moved on from that. It's supposed to be professional and the financial stakes are too high to just bodge it through.
If F1 can't be bothered to apply the rules fairly then I can't be bothered with F1 anymore.
But if it was any other race than a title decider
It would have finished behind the safety car
It wasn't just the flip/flop of the call, but that it wasn't applied to all the lapped drivers, just the ones between Hamilton and Max, and that the safety car then pulled in straight away rather than a lap after.
It stinks to high hell.
I find it hard to see anyway that f1 can defend this if it goes to an external body like CAS. By fudging the in race call, then doing the same for the appeal they are just leaving themselves open for further humiliation.
It would have finished behind the safety car
And red bull would’ve said they were disappointed they didn’t get one last roll of the dice, but rules is rules.
As it is, they’ve created a shitstorm.
Well said. You either have rules and stand by them or you don't. If you don't know the rules then you are incompetent, and if you do know them but choose to selective bend them to favour one party then you lack integrity. Either way, this stinks.
Not sure it was a factor in the stewards decision, which seems to be based on them ruling that 48.13 overrides 48.12, but one of Red Bull’s arguments was that “any” lapped drivers doesn’t mean “all” lapped drivers.
Which is about as logical as arguing that “any driver who has been disqualified from driving can’t drive” doesn’t mean that “all drivers who have been disqualified from driving can’t drive”.
I wonder if they rejected the appeal, so that they could have the responsibility taken away from them for changing the result, knowing that CAS would overturn it.
Yep
I don’t think there was a flip flop - he wasn’t prepared to sanction the unlapping whilst recovery work was underway, but then permitted unlapping when the track was clear. As for permitting only some to unlap, that’s a whole different question.
Someone in Mercedes might want to ask LH for his opinion on making an appeal. After all, Mercedes have the constructor’s title so they are potentially going further sour the mood by pursuing an appeal. LH looked quite calm and accepting of the situation - if he came out and said words to the effect of “enough is enough” he might just find his stock elevated to sainthood
The FIA: it gives you wins!
I don’t think there was a flip flop
There was a radio message to Horner clearly stating that the race would be restarted without the unlapping taking place.
I would have though there could be a few race positions further down the field also affected by having lapped cars now between them and the next position as well, they weren't afforded the opportunity that max was
I don’t think there was a flip flop
The was a message, to everyone, that said no cars could unlap (as per the rules), followed by a message saying only the cars between LH and MV could.
I don’t think the FIA will sack Massi as it adds to Mercs case, but I think he’ll leave for personal reasons.
I don’t know if Merc will take it to court, whereas I feel Redbull would have.
they’ve gone for the headline grabbing sensational end and in the process forgot about the rules and the sport
Twodogs
Full MemberIt would have finished behind the safety car
not convinced in modern F1. 1 lap sprint finish is great for viewing figures
1 lap sprint finish is great for viewing figures
Not if all the viewers then think you've ****ed it up!
🙂
brilliant
Some folk are forgetting the purpose of professional sport, which is to get the sponsor’s logo in front of as many people as possible and keep it there.
I think they’ve done an excellent job. Even the folk who are outraged keep saying either Red Bull or Mercedes.
Pity Bernd didn’t “get confused” and stay out because he was waiting for all the lapped cars to go past him first. Like he’s done every other time for the last 20/21 years.
Pie in the sky obviously, but imagine if Max reflects on this between now and the awards ceremony, and gets up on the stage and refuses to accept the WDC under these circumstances, then Lewis does the same, they shake hands and walk off. Balls in your court FIA 😀
That would shake things up a bit.
So, having read the relevant articles in the regs, I cannot for the life of me see anything in there that states, implies, or even leaves room for interpretation that 48.13 overrides 48.12. The latter permits the clerk of the course to leave the SC out longer than the lap after the last lapped car passes the leader, but makes no provision for bringing it in sooner.
Nor does it make any sense whatsoever to interpret “any cars” in 48.12 as anything other than “all cars”.
As far as I can see the FIA look like an absolute shambles. It’s a bit like going back to the time when they were widely perceived as batting for Ferrari.
Agreed Bez.
Max deserves the championship. He’s had more wins, more poles and finished 1st or 2nd in all bar three races. Baku with a tyre failure whilst he was leading, Hungary taken out by Bottas and silverstone fighting for the lead and taken out by Hamilton.
It’s the first championship Hamilton has actually had to fight for since he was beaten in 2016 and he’s now lost to a better driver who was arguably in the slower car.
Max deserves the championship for sure. Many would be of the opinion that both he and Lewis would have deserved it had either won. The audience deserves better from the sport. And Masi deserves a P45.
PS you forgot Max’s DNF for parking on Lewis’s head 😉
