Yep, definitely did, only for a second, and only a few inches.
5sec penalty if so. Lewis lost by 2.2.
Would love for Max to lose it for ****ing about.
Could be a get out for the FIA too..
What's the penalty for overtaking under safety car conditions, 5 sec penalty?
Not inconceivable that Max could be handed a 5 sec retrospective penalty if the data is conclusive that he nudged ahead of Lewis.
Very messy end to the season.
This is interesting because it's not one team protesting another, but a team protesting that the RD hasn't applied the rules. As the RD is employed by the FIA (I think) then the FIA shouldn't be allowed to stand as judge. I can see this going to the court of arbitration in Sport.
Will we know the identity of the 2022 champion before we know who is 2021 champion?
Is the overtaking under a safety car thing Merc's offer to the FIA as a way of reversing the result given their cock up on the restart?
Yep, definitely did, only for a second, and only a few inches.
5sec penalty if so. Lewis lost by 2.2
This actually gives the officials an out. Its Max's fault rather than their own.
yep, he didn't need to be that close.
Will we know the identity of the 2022 champion before we know who is 2021 champion?
Chris Froome after the other competitors were banned for using performance enhancing parts.
Such a mess, Masi not implementing the apparent safety car restart regs, Max driving ahead of Lewis just before the restart, Max making more than one defensive line change before the braking zone along at least one of the long fast straights in that final lap.
What a disappointing end to a great season, highly manufactured outcome that was.
One thing I think both Verstappen and Hamilton fans can agree on is that Masi needs fired ASAP. No clue and inconsistent decisions throughout whole season from the stewards.
The outcome would be very different I think if Charlie Whiting was still in charge.
It’s no longer a reputable sport anyway, that’s for sure.
I think this has been true for quite some time.
Joking aside, assuming Max dropped back to where he should be before the SC pulled in then there was no lasting advantage.
Bit like when Lewis cut the corner he didn’t like earlier in the race.
Or at least that is how the arguments will run.
This isn't sport anymore it's pantomime with far too many Karen's with hotlines to the FIA.
I’m a bit surprised Merc are bothering.
But I suppose if Merc are going to be penalised because an 85mm gap was 0.2mm (0.002%) too big due to damage, not even by design, and RB are like 🤷🏻♂️ well that’s the regs, then I suppose you have to accept Merc protesting breaches of the regs as well.
Itd be ironic if it turns out Max nudged ahead of Lewis by 0.2mm under the Safety Car & is given retrospective 5 sec penalty considering Horner's protestations at Lewis' rear wing being out by 0.2mm in Brazil...
TheGreatApe - great minds!
A barrister in with Merc at stewards 🙄
Joking aside, assuming Max dropped back to where he should be before the SC pulled in then there was no lasting advantage.
To be fair, that's an absolute whether he gained an advantage or not. Did he pass behind the SC? Yes = penalty, no = no penalty.
Joking aside, assuming Max dropped back to where he should be before the SC pulled in then there was no lasting advantage.
it’s a safety issue, not an advantage issue. These sorts of penalties are normally not open to interpretation. Like speeding in the pit lane for example.
Was incredible drama, it almost like it was setup for Verstappen to win right at the end.
Lewis was a better loser than what I would have been.
Does anyone know why Perez retired?
I incredibly disappointed how that all finished, regardless of who won. It felt rushed, contrived and designed to provide a spectacle, regardless of the rules. Lewis had won that race, Max gave it a good go, RB rolled the dice, but it was literally handed to them in the end. No contest, just there for TV. If it had been the other way around I’d like to think I’d feel the same, as it makes the sport look ridiculous.
All those people that tuned into F1 to see what the fuss was about - nice to have met you, have a good life. They won’t be back.
I really don’t want to watch it any more. I probably will, but not sure how much I can take. Masi comes across as very weak and easily swayed, the last thing you need in that position. There are many people who would do a much better job.
It's a classic example though of how shit management will lead to teams taking the piss, arguing every single infringement, real or imagined and the whole thing blowing up in their faces.
Sort the management out, have some consistent enforcement of rules and all of this drops away.
There's probably a counter argument to say that the media circus love all this stuff which has just turned the whole thing into a clickbait contest.
I think Lewis knows that he's the rightful winner and hats off to him for his conduct, at least in front of the cameras and crowds at the end. He's as guilty as Max and Sebastian of being a whiny spoilt brat in the past but that was very professional.
root-n-5th
Full MemberAll those people that tuned into F1 to see what the fuss was about – nice to have met you, have a good life. They won’t be back.
Most won't be back because F1 has turned into a circus to try and make the whole 3 days relevant and make more money, the whole season has been nothing but moaning and whinging about racing incidents or whatever, glad this season is over and can't wait to see what F1 will have in store next year to make it even more of a comedy show.
It's also a bit of a dead rubber sport these days, the only thing that sold this season was it was actually a competition for the drivers championship, probably back to normal next year with Mercedes running away with it after 5 races.
F1's claim to be a sport has been pretty marginal for many years now. Nevertheless, there are people out there risking their lives (and anyone sharing a track with Verstappen is certainly risking their life) for the chance of winning, and they deserve a level playing field. Massi and the stewards have been amateurish at best this year, and that needs to change.
What with this farce, Vale retiring, and the Dakar moved to Saudi, I think that's the end of my interest in motorsport.
Should have been a red and a 5 lap race to the end with everyone on new tyres. That was shite.
Only a doosh would want to win a world championship like that. MV had to actually overtake LH I guess but that was a foregone conclusion. A gentleman racer would have held station in that scenario, a bit like one football team passing the ball back to a team that puts the ball out for an injured footballer. This feels like a mancad to win the ashes.
But in general the whole concept of tyre changes under safety car is a shite one. A safety car is a bad enough disadvantage for someone who had a substantial lead but to be the only one not able to change tyres in many situations is insult to injury.
A barrister in with Merc at stewards
Imagine a sport in which you have a barrister on retainer trackside.
I reckon they should have some kind of VAR system in place for next season
It’s been brilliant in football. Everyone loves it as it’d put a complete stop to any controversial refereeing decisions with absolutely no fuss at all 😂
Only if they make the drivers pull to a halt for five minutes and twiddle their thumbs while the footage is scrutinised.
Even Weber and Coulthard seem to think Max could well have it taken away.
Mercedes should say "we don't want it taken away from Max, but we want acceptance that Massi was wrong", and then Massi resigns. (Obviously they won't do that....)
It’s been brilliant in football.
Imagine football with full telemetry about where every player is, where they are looking, what their feet are doing, where the ball is, what the referees eyeline was etc That'd make VAR decisions look like a picnic but it's pretty much what F1 stewards deal with.
When you look at the rules, I just can't see any defence for the decisions made, the result will have to change.
The only thing is, does the whole race result get annulled, or do they go with the race positions before the safety car.
I think they'll dismiss the "overtaking under safety car" cos he didn't overtake, just got a few cm in front with no benefit gained.
The other one is much harder to dismiss but I bet they'll come up with a fudge about "race director's discretion" (and the Massi will "resign")
I liked the way Lando Norris congratulated "both drivers, Lewis and Max," (in that order....😎)
The only thing is, does the whole race result get annulled, or do they go with the race positions before the safety car.
Which arguably is worse. That really is letting the officials choose who they want as driver's champion.
At least with what happened Hamilton has a small chance (ok not great) but if the annul it? Ouch.
But if they did rule in Merc's favour, they'd surely have to go back to positions before the SC.
I just wish that lewis today would have been the ferrari era Vettel, he who moved the place marker to his own car when he felt aggrieved. His reaction to that result would have been a spectacle.
I grew up watching F1, Mansell, Senna, Prost etc but around ten years ago lost interest. But after seeing this season shape up on BBC sport decided to watch the final race.
I won't watch again though. Hamilton had the race in the bag and all the last lap shenanigans were a farce to create a spectacle. OK safety cars happen but with verstappen on new tyres and last minute decisions about lapped cars all seem contrived. Mercedes did mess up their pit strategy but the race was manipulated by FIA. Verstappen too seems more intent on forcing people off the track in a way that's worse than Senna and Schumacher.
And listening to the teams and drivers moaning to fia race controllers is like being at my work!!!
Imagine a sport in which you have a barrister on retainer trackside.
I think the Lions and the RFU take barristers along with them, to represent players at disciplinary hearings. (It’s probably a good idea, take the likes of Andy Powell, Mark Regan and other thickos, they’d all get an appropriate adult if they were at a police station).
I don’t know if other teams or sports do this but it’s definitely not just F1.
^ That will be it - annul the whole race, and Max wins on races won. Just like giving him a penalty that didn't lose him any places.
I think they’ll dismiss the “overtaking under safety car” cos he didn’t overtake, just got a few cm in front with no benefit gained.
apart from forcing his opponent off the racing line on to the dirty side of the track causing marble pick up on his already compromised tyres
I think they’ll dismiss the “overtaking under safety car” cos he didn’t overtake, just got a few cm in front
‘He didn’t really get the win, he was only a few CMs in front’.
Or
‘That pole lap doesn’t count, he only got it by a thousandth of a second’.
An overtake is an overtake, by however much, and they are banned on safety grounds (he did it just before the location of the accident) under safety car conditions.
Mercedes did mess up their pit strategy
No they didn't
Imagine a World Cup Final being 4-2 with 30secs to go and then the ref says next goal wins... Sounds like 2021 F1!
Merc didn't pit under the safety car because the rules dictated the race would finish under a safety car. That's the crux of their beef
If it all goes belly up for Max, at least he can say he was world champion for longer than Massa 😉
I love how Lewis went straight to his dad afterwards and he had a word in his ear - what’s the betting it was “don’t rise to it, don’t be bitter, we will be back to beat them, we’ve been in this situation before remember”.
Lewis was then, as usual, great in the interview. I wonder if the result had gone the other way would Jos and MV tried to find someone’s skull to fracture like Jos has done before with his dad?
