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Agree with hols2 analysis. Ocon is good but I think he also has a fighting spirit as shown when he was in Force India and has real ambitions to be top driver. This could destabilise Hamilton and I think at the moment Merc are fully behind Hamilton. Bottas fully understands his position as the rear gunner / support role for Hamilton and has done a good (if not amazing) job of it in the last few years so I can see why Merc have kept the situation as it is.
I believe Merc will do what it takes to keep Hamilton happy till his current contract but won't pay crazy money for the next one as Hamilton may well decide to retire soon. By then Verstappen will have matured well and will still be young and have the potential for long term success at a top team so it important to snap him up when his current contract is over otherwise who knows when the opportunity to snap up Verstappen will arrive again?
Merc are certainly going to be interested in Verstappen but Verstappen may not be that interested in them! There is every chance that Merc's time as reigning supreme is coming to an end. They've already lasted longer than any other team, ever!
Ferrari won the WDC and WCC with Schumacher for 5 consecutive years so Hamilton and Merc still have a bit further to go in lasting longer than any team ever!.
Ferrari won the WDC and WCC with Schumacher for 5 consecutive years so Hamilton and Merc still have a bit further to go in lasting longer than any team ever!.
Mercedes have already matched that and are very (very!) likely to surpass it by winning the WDC and WCC this season to make it 6
Ferrari won the WDC and WCC with Schumacher for 5 consecutive years so Hamilton and Merc still have a bit further to go in lasting longer than any team ever!.
Ferrari won the constructors champs 6 years in a row (which Merc will equal this year) and the drivers title 5 years in a row (which Merc have already done and this year will make it 6)
There is every chance that Merc’s time as reigning supreme is coming to an end. They’ve already lasted longer than any other team, ever!
Which is evidence that they have a very solid technical department that will continue to produce good cars in the future. Red Bull are currently capable of winning the occasional race when Merc or Ferrari have a bad day, but they are still a long way from being title contenders. The Merc seat is still the most desirable on the grid, Verstappen would dump Red Bull in a second if he could get into a Merc.
Ocon and Verstappen at the same team would be interesting. Don’t they have a history of dislike for one another?
Im wondering if Lewis will look to go to Ferrari for 2021
I reckon he will be in talks with Ferrari next season about their 2021 car and weighing it up against the 2021 Merc, could be a gamble as no one really knows what the new cars will be like
But if he wins this year's championship, which we know is more than likely then if he moved to Ferrari for 2021 and won that season he would be able to match Schumacher's record at the same team he set it at or even beat it if he wins the 2020 season at Merc
Every driver wants to be a Ferrari driver at some point in their career and the chance to match or beat Schumacher's record with the same team he set it with must be very tempting for Lewis
Just a little. If Verstappen went to Merc I'd say Russell would be first in line for the second seat. But are Merc looking for two title contenders, or one and a wingman? It seems fair to say they've had a more harmonious team post 2016, and if they no longer have a car that's a step ahead of all the rest then they may not want two drivers robbing points from each other, because that's how a guy in red overalls won in 2007.
It'll be interesting to see who they sign for 2020 (Bottas, Ocon, Russell or a wildcard), and for how long, before the reshuffle of the whole grid in 2021.
Ocon and Verstappen at the same team would be interesting. Don’t they have a history of dislike for one another?
Only the collision/Handbags at interlagos I think?
Im wondering if Lewis will look to go to Ferrari for 2021
Why would he? He's comfortable where he is, he's top dog in the top team. Teenage boys get all excited about the romance of Ferrari, but drivers care much more about who has the best car, plus whether the team will give them priority if team orders are needed. Hamilton is happy where he is, he's said so publicly. Supposed rumours of him wanting to drive for Ferrari are just wishful thinking.
What drivers say publicly isnt always what they are thinking!
I agree why move when you are top dog in a top team but everything will change in 2021 and chances are Merc may no longer be top dog
Never discount the allure of Ferrari, Lewis made the right move to leave multiple world champions Mclaren a year before the Hybrid era started and Joined Mercedes, who is to say that leaving multiple world champions Mercedes just as the regs change again isn't the right thing to do?
Its a gamble but if it paid off it would put him even more firmly in the F1 history books!
everything will change in 2021 and chances are Merc may no longer be top dog
They're the best bet to be top dog. It's not guaranteed, but if I had to bet on who will be top in two years, the team that has dominated for the last 5 1/2 years would be the safe bet. Ferrari have an excellent engine and have produced good cars for the last 3 years, but the team as a whole has not got the best out of their resources. The Merc hasn't always been the best car, but the team overall have been incredibly impressive at getting the best out of it.
Very true, Hamilton has helped build the team around him and they have great leadership in Toto along with all the staff back in the UK working on development
Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part but you never know what may happen in the next couple of years
Ferrari won the WDC and WCC with Schumacher for 5 consecutive years so Hamilton and Merc still have a bit further to go in lasting longer than any team ever!.
I forgot Rosberg won in the Merc!
I don't think that we will see Hamilton in a Ferrari for 2021. Why? Well, Leclerc for starters, he clearly doesn't want to be Vettel's understudy and has a legitimate claim to be number one driver. I cannot see a 24 year old Leclerc, who'll have three seasons in F1 behind him being particularly enamoured at having a thirty-six year old Lewis Hamilton rock up.
Hamilton has helped build the team around him
No, Hamilton has no part in team management. He just drives the car and works with the engineers to develop it. The team was established by Ross Brawn and Hamilton joined after all the hard work had been done setting it up. That's not to say that Hamilton hasn't contributed a lot, but he had little to do with building the team.
That's broadly true but "he just drives the car and works to develop it" is a little unfair. Drivers obviously play a part in motivating the team, from the race engineers they interact with tightly to the factory team who they see less of. It seems to me, in as much as it's possible to judge from afar, that Hamilton does a decent job of that. If you look at the trail of chaos that Alonso left in his wake, and how the relevant teams recovered quickly afterwards, it shines a light on how much better some drivers are at providing a more effective form of inspiration. Not so much building a team in terms of finding and employing its components, but building it in terms of binding them together effectively. But you're right that Brawn, Lauda et al laid the foundations and built on them, and that Hamilton will have little involvement in the team's hiring decisions.
Only the collision/Handbags at interlagos I think?
When that happened I’m sure I heard a reference to their relationship in the feeder series.
if they no longer have a car that’s a step ahead of all the rest then they may not want two drivers robbing points from each other, because that’s how a guy in red overalls won in 2007.
Without wanting to sound paranoid, I’m sure Ferrari won in ‘07 because a McLaren driver wasn’t allowed to win as part of the punishment for them having Ferrari info, but no one wanted to disqualify or take points from the drivers as it would have ruined the spectacle. Why else would they leaveHamilton out on tyres that were through to the canvas?
I agree that Merc were incredibly dominant between 2014 and 2016, and managed to carry on winning by being a better complete team for the last two seasons after Ferrari had caught up with their engine design, but in 2021 all the chips get thrown up in the air again and I reckon it could also equally be Red Bull or Ferrari as well as Merc who get it right that time around.
Is there any indication on how the power units will change with the new regs?
Without wanting to sound paranoid…
You might not want to, but… 😉
LAT
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Is there any indication on how the power units will change with the new regs?
They were talking about removing the MGU-H and making them rev a fair bit higher to improve the sound. Haven't heard anything about it for a while though.
Is there any indication on how the power units will change with the new regs?
Last I heard was that they are staying the same.
Is there any indication on how the power units will change with the new regs?
The announcement is expected in October but it currently looks like the power unit regs will remain stable, with the main changes being centred around aero (to improve over taking), a reduction in driver aids and telemetry so that the driver is more responsible for more stuff like tyre wear, fuel management etc and an attempt to reduce the costs (again!)
in 2021 all the chips get thrown up in the air again and I reckon it could also equally be Red Bull or Ferrari as well as Merc who get it right that time around.
If they have equal odds, then a driver's best bet is to stay in their current team if they are comfortable there. However, when a team dominates for six years, it's an indication that their technical department is better than the rivals, so they have better odds of being ahead after a major rule change, or of catching the leader if they miss something big. Whatever way you look at it, Hamilton's best option is to stay where he is, and he knows that.
Hamilton’s best option is to stay where he is, and he knows that.
Yep, you're prob right. Or, more accurately, next year he'll make a lot of noise about considering a move to one of the other top teams (most likely Ferrari) to give himself some leverage as he negotiates his new contract, then stay at Mercedes.
Joe Saward seems to think that Ferrari are chasing Hamilton and Verstappen, not the other way around.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00558
There are persistent rumours that Ferrari wants either Lewis Hamilton or Max Verstappen but the team needs to show solid and consistent performance for more than 10 minutes to get that kind of commitment from one or the other.
Following the BBC live updates on the web. Dear god, what a pool of vapid, illiterate, uninsightful dross that place has become.
"Bottas remains in third, only six tenths he has nailed it down to so not a great improvement after losing time in the final sector."
"It doesn't look like the most appealing of beaches. It's very dark isn't it?"
"It's funny you say that you do get a whiff of the sea air and it's not nice sea air so I don't know if he gets a ponginess. It could be that, pongy water."
"Honda have definitely improved this season there's no doubt about that they probably started the year a little bit ahead of Renault. Renault now have the third best engine they've leap-frogged ahead again."
I mean, these people are paid to write, FFS. One of them's spent decades doing it professionally, and still can't manage to construct a sentence properly.
still can’t manage to construct a sentence properly
Sure, but their technical insights are what people tune in for. Who would've noticed that the Honda engine isn't as shit as it used to be if we didn't have experts to point it out?
I see one of them (posting anonymously) is a shameless middle lane hogger:
"Hamilton overtook on the inside on of the bend... like one of those annoying drivers who undertake on the motorway, and then scowl at you through the window."
A racing driver overtaking on the inside of a bend? Whodathunkit?
"like one of those annoying drivers who undertake on the motorway, and then scowl at you through the window.”
Yep, if someone is physically able to undertake you on the motorway then you're not doing it right
Joe Saward seems to think that Ferrari are chasing Hamilton and Verstappen, not the other way around.
I'd forgotten about Joe Saward, thanks for the reminder! Always a good read
BBC reporting McLaren are getting Mercedes engines from 2021. Hamilton back to McLaren for the end of his career?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49859259
Leclerc is looking mighty impressive right now!
I reckon without all the Ferrari team orders tomfoolery at the start of the season he could have been easily on track for 2nd place in the Driver's Championship
Back at Silverstone Eddie Jordan was saying that mclaren will be going back to Mercedes power units.
He also said about the Hamilton ferrari move, but I think that's pie in the sky.
Nice lap by Lewis.
Crap work from the tv feed director. People on hot laps setting purples? Oh nah, nobody will want to see that. Let's watch a ferrari trundle round on an outlap for a minute instead.
Its all going off at Mercedes
Hamilton has kicked an engineer in the face!!!!!!
(not quite true, just a good camera angle)
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comparison of hamilton and charles' laps ... brilliant s3 from lewis
anyone playing f1 2019 on the ps4?
Sort of, as small children allow
anyone playing f1 2019 on the ps4?
Who's winning?
Where's the best place to buy F1 tickets?
Also, general admission tickets are waaay cheaper. What's the catch? Do you have to sit for hours to reserve your place? Looking at Zandvoort and Austria next year
.
comparison of hamilton and charles’ laps … brilliant s3 from lewis
Indeed!!
It also gives a really good illustration of Ferrari's straight line speed advantage, which is pretty jaw dropping!
Looking at Zandvoort and Austria next year
I had heard that they had to run a lottery for Zandvoort tickets as so many want to go. I think all individual Sunday only tickets have been allocated. Packages may be available but I imagine prices will be eye watering.
Zandvoort tickets weren't on sale yet when I checked but I can imagine the Orange Army snapping them up pretty quickly!!
Why are Ferrari so quick now? At the beginning of the season the educated consensus was that the Ferrari approach to their aero, especially re the front wing was superficially quicker but fundamentally floored in terms of development as opposed to the approach of Mercedes and other teams.
And yet, here we are with the red car quicker in all areas with the right driver.
Why are Ferrari so quick now?
They introduced a new front wing, floor, plus other parts for Singapore. It seems to have worked really well and solved their downforce deficit. Plus, they have an excellent engine that seems to have some special qualifying mode that nobody else can figure out. Plus, they were a bit unlucky at times early in the season and also made some terrible strategic decisions. In Singapore, Merc completely dropped the ball strategy wise so that made Ferrari look better than they really were. Merc could have won that race if they'd pitted early and gone for the undercut. Plus, Leclerk seems to be a very good driver who has matured really quickly and is able to nail qualifying.
Why are Ferrari so quick now? At the beginning of the season the educated consensus was that the Ferrari approach to their aero, especially re the front wing was superficially quicker but fundamentally floored in terms of development as opposed to the approach of Mercedes and other teams.
And yet, here we are with the red car quicker in all areas with the right driver.
There was one article by an insider which considered the point that Ferrari may be going into a dead end re development of the front wing, but iirc that article also said that they had the quickest car at that point. Reality is that Ferrari have had the strongest car for most of the season but have serially underachieved, Vettel has been extremely poor, the team have screwed a few races and Leclerc has taken a while to go from "believing" he can win to "knowing" he can win.
IMO this has not been a dominant Mercedes car this year, it is Hamilton that has really made the difference.
Thanks for the insights @hols2 and @MSP. It was that article on the beeb site that had me wondering what was going on and it sounds like a new chassis and getting their shit together is making the difference.
So long as LH doesn’t have any dnf’s, the titles are his and Merc’s this year. Next year is anyone’s guess!
Well this is fascinating...
Ferrari are having fun.........
Vettel is such a dick. LC ordered to let him by at the start to get him into second - which he does - then finger boy won't let him back in front.
Moron.
Just desserts for finger boy
Finger boy out..... I really hope the pit wall turned his engine off for being a tosser!
😁
and penalties in Japan too, if he's borked his K.
Brilliant result!
Multi 21... with a better outcome.
Naughty Red Baron, I should imagine he's having a strongly worded listening too at his interview without tea and biscuits.
SV - what a cock.
A little surprised he was voted the driver of the day, I found him annoying
I’ve said it numerous times on this thread that the cherry on my Sunday cake is watching the demise of Vettel.
But
For me he was quicker in the first part of the race, Le Clerc couldn’t get near enough to him. Vettel got the better start irrespective of what the team agreed before the race.
Apart from Bottas, I could pretty much guarantee every other driver on the grid would have done the same.
Just a shame he had to retire as it ruined the race.
perhaps ferrari realizing for all intent and purposes the title was gone after the mid season break have been ragging the engines to get some wins under their belts and sod the consequences.
You give the place to your team driver if that is what has been agreed. Hamilton has done so for Bottas a couple of times.
That way it is easier for the other driver to accept giving up a place in more important times. Now maybe next time Leclerc defends off the line, or doesn't give a place up when the points matter.
I don't think that Vettel understands that it is a team sport, there are hundreds of people working to give him the opportunity to win races, those opportunities are going to get less and less if he doesn't back the team effort.
Had to shake my head in despair listening to Ferrari's team radio at the start. Embarrassing listening to them try to pitch their change of plan to Leclerc when they were simply bending over in response to a repeat of Multi 21.
Nice moves by Albon, redeemed himself nicely.
The Ferrari radio during the race is hilarious. Option A, option B, option Z, let Le Clerc past, push now. They sound like they don’t know their arse from their elbow.
Ferrari are a Shambles and Merc and Lewis know it. Apply mild pressure for a long enough period and they just fall to bits. Having their no2 driver become No1 mm I'd season when finger boys ego is so big is a massive issue.
Spaghetti Italian all over again. It's like the 90's and early 2000's before Schumacher, Brawn, Todt and Byrne sorted it out.
Mattia Binotto has def made a rod for his own back when he started applying team orders within the first 6 races of the season, way too early!
I don't watch the races because they're too boring but it was great on 5 Live today listening to all the Ferrari communications.
It's now a perfect sport for radio IMHO.
he started applying team orders within the first 6 races of the season, way too early!
There were team orders in race 1! Leclerc was instructed to stay behind Vettel. Their handling of their drivers was a joke from the outset, something which Leclerc demonstrated in Bahrain.
I think if they keep Vettel in 2020 they risk throwing away their chances at a championship. Vettel's having another 2014, and Leclerc's being pulled in two directions by the desire to win and the need to play politics. Thing is, no racing driver worth anything will be pulled in those directions for very long: the former will always overpower the latter. Vettel's already throwing his toys because he knows he's the poorer-performing driver; Ferarri really shouldn't force Leclerc into throwing his because he knows he's the better-performing one.
Ferrari need a number two like Raikkonen, Barrichello or Irvine. And they need to wake up to the fact that not only is Vettel no longer a number one driver, but that he's a terrible number two.
he’s a terrible number two.
I see what you did there...
Have we done Williams retiring Kubica to save parts!...
...for the employees sake I hope Claire Williams sees sense and sells the team to Michael Latiffi.
That's doesn't sound good at all, I really hope Williams can turn it around.
Just to think, the Big Three used to be Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams. Drivers used to fight for the privilege of driving a Williams.
anyone playing f1 2019 on the ps4?
I have it on my PC, I bought it in a Steam sale. There's no way I'd pay full RRP for an otherwise identical product to F1 2018 but with a few minor tweaks.
finger boy...
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't understand the amount vitriol towards Vettel on here. Ferrari have all of a sudden got a decent car, quite a lot of that development work will have been the result of Vettel's input. No doubt, Leclerc has staked a claim on being lead driver - no small effort when he's had eighteen months in F1 and his team mate is a four-times world champion. This sort of thing isn't new in F1, look at Pironi & Villeneuve, Piquet & Mansell, Prost & Senna, even Button & Villeneueve (jnr!).
Ferrari could've and should've managed the drivers better, Vettel's win last time out was well deserved. This time around, he was trying to keep a Merc at bay and potentially would've thrown away the lead had he slowed to let Leclerc by.
I have previously speculated that Ferrari will be forced to choose between Vettel and Leclerc before too long, team politics aren't playing out in Vettel's favour and I suspect that he'll either take a sabbatical next year or will jump ship. At this stage in the season, his options aren't marvellous and there will need to be some contractual manoeuvring to get him a drive in a car that will be undoubtedly inferior.