Subscribe now and choose from over 30 free gifts worth up to £49 - Plus get £25 to spend in our shop
So Ocon to Renault and Hulkenberg to Haas seem to be the general consensus.
And the pressure's off Albon (a bit) for his first race with RedBull - engine change means loadsapenalties which puts him at the back of the grid.
So Albon and Kvyat (also with an engine penalty) have to start behind Gasly, who is fighting for his career and in no mood to let them past.
Ocon confirmed at renault in 2020
Just read news about a horrendous crash at Spa on the exit of Eau Rouge in the F2 race. Race has been cancelled. Hope those involved are ok, but it looks bad.
:'-(
https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/31/fia-confirms-f2-driver-anthoine-hubert-was-killed-in-spa-crash/
Seriously horrible. Met the guy a couple of times around the factory and he seemed a genuinely nice and driven guy. Lots of my colleagues know him a fair bit better as have engineered him a few times, Motorsport is great when all is good but can seriously suck when this happens. RIP Anthonie.
That's such a shame. RIP.
The last F1 driver to be killed was Jules Bianchi who was like a brother to Charles Leclerc. Now Anthoine Hubert who is a fellow countryman and another close friend of Leclerc apparently.
With Charles on pole I hope he gets his first victory today.
Awful, awful crash yesterday. Am saddened that a promising talent lost his life on the track like that.
+1 for Leclerc today, I would love to see him bring that Ferrari home in first place.
I saw that youtube clip linked above. I wish I hadn't.
another good day for lewis, congrats Leclerc big thanks to his number 2 🙂
Does that mean Monaco has the most F1 winners per capita now, on account of them only having a tiny population? (Edit, yeah, by miles, they were already smashing the podiums per capita...)
Reckon he’s a shoe in for Monza, should be some epic celebrations then.
1 Lewis Hamilton GBR Mercedes 268
2 Valtteri Bottas FIN Mercedes 203
3 Max Verstappen NED Red Bull Racing Honda 181
4 Sebastian Vettel GER Ferrari 169
5 Charles Leclerc MON Ferrari 157
F1 is in grave danger of becoming enjoyable. 🙂
The battle for 2nd is pretty close at this stage of the season!
can't see max holding his position, he's got engine penalties looming (he's on his last ICE and going by the other honda runners it doesn't look favourable)
Superb win for Leclerc, am very relieved to see him finally nail a win after this awful weekend at Spa.
Poor Lando Norris has held a well deserved fifth place on merit until his engine let go on the last lap.
How can Vettell get away with making this statement unchallenged, after the hissy fits he threw when penalised for unsafe driving. He really is an arrogant entitled asshole.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/49599387
Vettel is an annoying dick, but I don't think he's a deliberately unsafe driver. He did lose his shit with Hamilton a couple of years ago, but that was because he thought Hamilton had brake-checked him. The unsafe rejoining the track thing looks to me to be the sort of mistake that people make under pressure, not deliberate. Not saying that Vettel wasn't clearly in the wrong in those incidents and deserved penalties, but compared with Schumacher's and Senna's worst moments of deliberately taking out other drivers, I don't think Vettel is dirty or dangerous.
The unsafe rejoining the track thing looks to me to be the sort of mistake that people make under pressure, not deliberate.
I would say a lot of his mistakes are driven by anger, that is more dangerous than calculated actions.
It is his reaction to being penalised for his mistakes that I was pointing out, it makes hum a complete hypocrite.
No good saying this today, after someone has died, when just a few weeks ago he was throwing his toys out of the pram when punished for unsafe driving (unless admitting he was wrong then). He is a senior driver, 4 time world champion, and basically he doesn't believe the safety rules should apply to him they are for everyone else.
He was "penalised for unsafe driving", but that's not the same as driving dangerously: it was the way in which the rule is written that snared him. I don't believe he did anything dangerous, and the majority view—certainly among drivers—seemed to be broadly the same. His wheel-banging behaviour in Baku was far more worthy of punishment, but even then that wasn't anywhere near mortally dangerous.
So I think he's got every right to say what he said. It's an abstract point about whether the spectacle as it stands excuses death, I think, because there's no simple correlation between entertainment and mortality. I'm guessing he just disagrees with the view of some, that mortal danger is an inherent part of the appeal to the spectator.
The fact of the matter is that the human body is only robust up to about 20mph impacts, so where you're doing ten times that speed, carrying a hundred times the energy, you've got your work cut out to reduce risk of injury and death. You achieve it by engineering the cars, the tracks, the rules and other control systems—each of which affects the nature of the on-track action—because fundamentally when you put racing drivers alongside each other in a racing car they have one aim: to win. I forget who it was that said that if you give a racing driver the choice of a car that can be crashed without consequence, or a car that will kill him in a crash but is a second a lap faster, he will choose the latter every time.
They're compelled—psychologically and financially—to push to the very limits of the equipment, the tracks and the rules. It's in their interest to have equipment, tracks and rules which, even when pushed to their limits, don't punish basic mistakes or mechanical failures with death.
But, again: they're doing 200mph. The probability of a fatal incident is never going to be zero.
A lot of the time it comes down to the toss of the dice....it's a series of unfortunate circumstances that lead to someone losing their life.
If the driver in front had braked 1m sooner or had been 6" further across the track & the following driver's tyres had been 3 laps fresher etc. etc. then death would be averted & people would talk about a bad accident, rather than a fatal one.
There was that crash with Alonso a few yrs ago (was it Australia?) where he flew through the air and slammed into the barriers.
Looking at a replay & you can imagine that a bit more speed, a bit more contact, flipping a bit earlier/later etc. could all have resulted in death. Small margins....
(F3, but still)
**** me!
Driver and Marshalls ok, Kerb has now been removed...
Holy ****. What was with that kerb anyway?
To stop drivers running wide to get a faster run on to the straight for the next lap. Now they are just deleting lap times of the lap you are on and the subsequent lap to stop them doing it
Well, that was a farce...
Well what a farce that was, while the racing has had somewhat of a renascence over the past couple of months, they then go and shoot themselves in the foot with that ludicrous qualifying display.
All involved in that debacle should be sent to the back of the grid for bringing the sport into disrepute - forget if any technical regulations have been breached or not. No excuses from any of them, utterly gormless.
Another video of the Peroni crash with a different angle at the end (with random audio!), has to be said that without the Halo we could well have had another fatality this weekend.
It's lucky that Leclerc was in P1 when the flag dropped. Can you imagine the tifosi if that had happened with a Mercedes on pole? (Which nearly happened; supposedly Hamilton had to lift on his lap when Raikkonen went off.)
that ludicrous qualifying display
"Did you see that ludicrous display last night?"
"The thing about Ferrari is, they always try and walk it in."
etc
I think leclerc actually made the line in time. Sky commentators thought he hadn’t but there was no flag next to his name on the timing board, but there was for Vettel who was just behind him. There was just no point going for a quick lap though as Sainz was never going to knock 1.6 secs off he previous time, with no tow.
Would love it if all the drivers who didn’t make the line were sent to the back though...
Hope Leclerc wins tomorrow. He has become my sons favourite driver. I can see championship battles between him and Verstappen over the coming years. Verstappen has amazing talent but I cant warm to his arrogance. The sea of orange at the Dutch GP at Zandvoort next year will be a sight to behold though.
All 4 of Vettel’s wheels were over the white line a parabolica on his timed lap, but it was allowed to Stan because... well, you know... Ferrari, Monza, Tifosi etc.
Vettel was very lucky!
The stewards decided he was just within track limits on his first hot lap and from certain angles it looked like he was actually outside the limit which would of meant the lap would of been wiped
Then missing out on the 2nd hot lap due to the tow debacle would of meant that he wouldn't have done a timed lap and would of been P9!
I found the back and forth between lando and max i this quite funny. Drivers away from the PR machine can be funny.
Christ Vettel's driving like a granny in a Micra down Tesco's car park
Bottas is not great in close racing
who's the coked up idiot in the Ferrari garage?
Good race again, very strong drive from Hamilton following so closely for that many laps until the tyres called it a day.
WTF Vettel. Ferrari presumably spending today looking for a way they can cancel his contract for next year...!
If you did a video of all Vettels' cock ups over the last 3 years it would be a 30 minute documentary.
He really has lost it. Can't deal with pressure on the track and now can't deal with pressure from a younger, faster team mate.
Wonder if he'll see sense and retire because I doubt any other teams going to take him on unless he's paying!
Not sure what he'll do. Can't seeing him staying at Ferrari to play No.2 to LeClerc, which he would be unless he really improves in the latter part of the season. And I can't see any spaces for him elsewhere.
And who would Ferrari get to replace him? I think the only two drivers prepared to go head-to-head with Leclerc in the same team are Hamilton, Verstappen and possibly Ricciardo. Any other driver would be taken on as a traditional Ferrari No.2 Driver.
Don't think Mercedes would do a swap as they'd be getting the bum-end of the deal. Vettel just isn't capable of applying the same sort of pressure that Lewis did yesterday.
Red Bull with be desperate to keep Verstappen as they are seriously lacking any other top talent. But then Max is making a lot of mistakes too so a swap not out of the question?
Or just retire - his demeanor in recent interviews seems to be one of someone who's tired of the whole thing.
I think the only two drivers prepared to go head-to-head with Leclerc in the same team are Hamilton, Verstappen and possibly Ricciardo.
Ferrari or Red Bull - what is Fernando Alonso's next move?
Or just retire – his demeanor in recent interviews seems to be one of someone who’s tired of the whole thing.
To be fair to him it must be pretty tough to stay motivated being away from your young family for so much of the year. I thought he might go and drive an LMP1 or something.
Lordy - Alonso to Ferrari!? They'll have to get a deal with Hamleys to keep up with the toys they'd need if Alonso was alongside Leclerc. They'd need a bigger pram too! 🙂
After a year out of F1, Alonso is up to his old tricks again. He desperately wants a competitive drive, but it's fair to say that he's burned many bridges. Red Bull Honda probably won't play nicely given Alonso's vocal criticism of the Japanese engine manufacturer, who vetoed him driving at Indianapolis with a Honda engine. Red Bull might not want to stump up the additional cash for Alonso given that they already have Verstappen and a choice between Albon, Kvyat and Gasly at a bargain basement salary for 2020.
Ferrari is also problematic given Alonso's history with them. Leclerc is winning races at Ferrari and won't want to be Alonso's understudy. It's fair to say that although Vettel obviously won't be hanging around much longer, there are other driver options that are more palatable like a hungry Ricciardo or a solid no 2 like Hulkenberg who'll get the job done.
Yeah, all of the above. Alonso's not going to be back in F1. He won't take anything but a race winning seat and none of the top teams will touch him, for very different reasons.
If I was a betting man I'd have a fiver on what must be pretty long odds on Vettel quitting this year and Hulkenberg getting his seat for 2020. For 2021 who knows… the driver market's going to be crazy come next summer.
On an unrelated note:
Good to see the black and white flag dusted off, if you ask me. (Even if it did perhaps raise an eyebrow when Leclerc later overshot the first chicane and then moved a fair bit on the Curva Grande.)
Personally I'd like to see Ricciardo get a drive in a better car - he made a mistake leaving RB last year. Hulkenberg doesn't seem to be as good frankly.
Hulkenburg to Ferrari as the experienced driver. They have little other choice if Vettle retires.
I did read somewhere a while back that Ricciardo's contract has an escape clause that he can take a seat at Ferrari if it becomes available. Ferrari will be desperate to challenge for titles so I suspect they wouldn't worry so much about upsetting Leclerk if they were able to get Ricciardo. Question is whether they feel the same about Alonso - he did manage to challenge for the title in that utter dog of a Ferrari that they gave him one year. He might be a difficult prick to manage, but surely that's better than a guy who just seems to have just forgotten how to drive.
I find it very hard to see Ferrari viewing Hulkenberg as a better option than Vettel!!! Sure Vettel has seemingly lost his 'world champion' touch and doesn't seem to be at the level of Leclerc Verstapen or Hamilton....but I reckon he's a significant jump up from Hulkenberg! I'd say only Ricciardo would be a realistic replacement for him.
I'd be amazed if Ferrari seriously considers offering a seat to a 38 year old who has been out of F1 for a year. I don't know about Ricciardo's contract, but he must be on Ferrari's shortlist if there is an escape clause at Renault. Ricciardo himself is thirty, he needs a serious shot at a title around about now and I can't see Renault delivering this any time soon.
I find it very hard to see Ferrari viewing Hulkenberg as a better option than Vettel!!! I’d say only Ricciardo would be a realistic replacement for him.
I very much doubt Ferrari would (or even could without a legal thunderstorm) eject Vettel from his contract against his will. The question is more of whether Vettel might lose his desire to drive by the end of the year and they reach a mutual agreement to tear up the contract, in which case they'd need to fill a seat for 2020.
Hulkenberg's known to be available; Ricciardo would depend on escape clauses.
Few people would disagree that Ricciardo is a more realistic WDC candidate than Hulkenberg, but that doesn't mean Ferrari would go for him right now. In the modern era they've often—though not always—leaned towards having a clear number one backed up by a driver who isn't on the same level but who is fast enough and a safe pair of hands. Hulkenberg fits that profile better than Ricciardo, I think.
Leclerc seems to have a somewhat pre-ordained destiny with Ferrari and personally I think their long term plan was to nurture him this year while Vettel challenged for the title, and turn him into their Next Big Thing during Vettel's inevitable autumn seasons. I think it's just that, against expectations, Vettel may have plummeted straight through autumn into winter.
Realistically, though, I think Vettel will be there next year unless he voluntarily throws in the towel. But 2021 looks fairly unpredictable across the board…
And anyway, it could all change in the next couple of races. Vettel might recompose himself and Leclerc could reprise his tendency to "throw it in the bin". Unlikely, but it'd be a little unwise to infer too much of the future from just a few recent races.
I reckon the likes of Buemi and JEV would be better candidates for Ferrari than Nico Hulk. Nico is just not an inspiring choice for the Tifosi - too old to be exciting, not successful enough to geenrate a buzz. Grabbing one of the FE 'stars' would at least bring experience, even if they all tend to be red bull rejects. Or heck, bring Kimi back...
Vettel has been at Ferrari since 2014, this will be his sixth season at the team and he's yet to score a championship there. He's also not won at Ferrari since 2018, while Leclerc has now once twice, on the bounce.
I daresay that Vettel is struggling for motivation, he commands a much larger salary than Leclerc so Ferrari face the prospect of having an extremely expensive no 2 driver who doesn't want to play the team game or to go for a fresh start.
In terms of drivers, Verstappen looks to be staying put, as does Hamilton, Bottas, Sainz and Norris. Albon is still very green and needs time to develop, so he'll stay at RB until the end of the year at least. Gasly and Kvyat (the latter a Ferrari development driver last year) aren't realistically going anywhere. If Vettel decides to call it a day, or to take a sabbatical then Ferrari won't necessarily want to pair a 22 year old with two full seasons behind him with another young driver, they'll want experience. That could either be Ricciardo (of Italian descent no less) if there's a get out clause in his Renault contract, or Hulkenberg, unless of course something really outrageous happens like Grosjean or Magnussen getting an unlikely call up.
Haas and Rich Energy finally go their separate ways!...
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/09/haas-splits-from-title-sponsor-rich-energy/
Hopefully they'll lose the black and gold - that colour scheme should be left back in the 70's where it had relevance and looked great. Unless it says JPS it's just a poor imitation.
...unless of course something really outrageous happens like Grosjean or Magnussen getting an unlikely call up.
LOL - need to clean the coffee of my computer screen now!!! 🤣🤣🤣
K Mag in a ferrari would be an awesome thing to watch
On the basis of yesterday, if it wasn't for the fact that car number 8 also went through Ascari backwards you'd be forgiven for thinking that Grosjean hadn't already been dropped into Vettel's seat.
Enjoyed yesterdays race. Good to see two top drivers at the front really going for it. The Ferrari was just too quick in a straight line though. LeClerc was hitting 340kph before the first chicance without DRS, Hamilton was getting to 345kph with DRS, He just didn't have enough overspeed with DRS to get ahead of LeClerc.
Its fair to say Vettel had an absolute 'mare. Talk of his replacement is probably premature though. His contract with Ferrari is pretty cast iron if he doesn't retire he needs to be bought out. He has almost certainly mentally written off this season and none of the remaining races really suit the Ferrari, but maybe he can get his head straight for next year.
He just didn’t have enough
overspeed with DRS to get ahead of LeClerc
Stop it!
For me there are two very strong drivers with a proven history right now, one of whom still makes too many mistakes. LeClerc is looking very strong too (and could have had a third win this season but for engine failure). Ricardo is good but not great so I see it as Hamilton, LeClerc, Verstappen then Ricardo.
It would be nice to see Hamilton in a Ferrari and, assuming he wins this year, he is one behind Shoe Maker. Perhaps he will stay at Mercedes for a further season to equal the record then move to Ferrari (he has always said he wants to drive for them one day) with Ricardo as a wing man and try to move one clear? But a very strong LeClerc may put paid to that idea if Ferrari want to keep him.
Personally I’d like to see Ricciardo get a drive in a better car – he made a mistake leaving RB last year.
The feeling I got from watching the Netflix series following teams last year, was that Ricciardo was scared of Verstappen and chose to jump ship rather than fight against the upstart.
Vettel will be at Ferrari next year. Anything else is just silly season ramblings. 2021 however...
He's had the stuffing knocked out of him this year, following an easy ride all his career at RB and beyond. RB always pick a favourite and coddle them, the team-mate always gets a rough ride.
Once they leave the confines of RB they can find the real world mighty chilly after having all the team revolve around you.
I suspect Verstappen will find the same once he moves on; even now Albon has battered him in the two races he's taken part in as an RB driver
Kamui Kobayashi to Ferrari for the win
The feeling I got from watching the Netflix series following teams last year, was that Ricciardo was scared of Verstappen and chose to jump ship rather than fight against the upstart.
More that he believed he was always going to be fighting an uphill battle politically within the team, I think. He seemed to feel that Verstappen was The Chisen One and I think he was probably justified.
Albon has battered him in the two races he’s taken part in as an RB driver
Not sure that’s reasonable, given the circumstances of those two races, not least who hot the Spec 4 engine when. Don’t get me wrong, Albon did an excellent job in Belgium and a decent one it Italy, but it’s far fetched to claim that Verstappen’s met his match.
Just finished listening to the BBC podcast following the Italian GP.
Palmer was banging on about the lack of consistency from the stewards and that Leclerc should have been penalised, LH commented that its a Ferrari in Italy. Basically it'll never happen. And let's face it,if it has been given the stewards would have been lynched.
I find it impossible to listen to the BBC podcast because of Palmer.
RB always pick a favourite and coddle them, the team-mate always gets a rough ride.
I also think this had a huge bearing on Riccardo leaving RB. I'd love to see him in a properly fast car, maybe next year...
I find it impossible to listen to the BBC podcast because of Palmer
He does come across as a bitter person - don't really take to him.
He does have a point about there should be a consistent group of race stewards throughout the season though. That's the only way to get consistency.
The consistency card does get a little over-played, though. There have been lots of comments along the lines of "Verstappen was penalised for pushing Bottas in Monza last year, so Leclerc should be too", which can't hold up because a year ago everyone was complaining that there were too many penalties and they should be free to race hard. If you want change you can't also demand consistency back in time. Consistency at the same event, sure, and a consistent trend in changes between events, but some of the arguments get silly. At the end of the day as long as when the red lights go out everyone has the same understanding of the rules and how the stewards will apply penalties, it's fine. It's when people do something or see something in the cockpit and the penalties don't seem to match that there's a problem.
as long as when the red lights go out everyone has the same understanding of the rules and how the stewards will apply penalties, it’s fine
But that's exactly it... they don't know how/when the penalties are going to be applied. You can't penalise someone for a discretion at one event and not penalise them for the same discretion at another event.
If this is allowed to carry on then there's the strong possibility that someone's going to get pushed off the road at 180mph and end up in the wall injured or worse - then people will be, rightly, throwing their hands in the air and asking why such actions were allowed to go unpenalised.
Without doubt this weekend was a Ferrari charity race.
He does come across as a bitter person – don’t really take to him.
I have to say that I don't find that. I think he is more than happy to take the piss out of himself. His co=presenters certainly do. He must be down about his chance in F1 gone but he's not too bad.
I did like Hamilton's views on Rosberg's comments on current F1 drivers:
“I thought it was really funny – I think Max is generally a really funny guy so I was cracking up when I saw it.”
Not done, he had a dig at drivers becoming “irrelevant” after they retire and making comments in order to try keep them in the spotlight.
He added: “It’s interesting because obviously we know what it’s like – all the drivers have all been here and know what it’s like being criticised from the public and when [they are] in the sport moan about being criticised by people from the outside and then when drivers retire they become those critics, so it’s an interesting dynamic.
“And also some of those… unfortunately drivers become irrelevant when they retire and ultimate have to hang on to utilise other people’s light to keep them in the light and so… but that’s the way of sport, I guess.”
Williams financial results mirroring their on track performance
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/928880/1/williams-f1-team-records-financial-loss-start-2019
Hope they can turn it around, but sounds like they're almost admitting defeat with hopes that it'll be OK in 2021.
But that’s exactly it… they don’t know how/when the penalties are going to be applied. You can’t penalise someone for a discretion at one event and not penalise them for the same discretion at another event.
You can as long as you make everyone crystal clear about the changes in the meantime (I realise there's the context of the rulebook which tends to stand for the full season), but that's key. Evidently right now that isn't the case. The idea that any given event must be consistent with the (or any) previous one is fundamentally flawed because it means you can't change anything.
To clarify my remark earlier about the black and white flag, I think it's good in principle to see it where a decision would be marginal. (I'm going to skip over the subjective matter of whether Leclerc's move was marginal or not.) I don't think it's good for what Palmer suggests in his latest column, that drivers will be "allowed to commit one offence in a race and get away with it". If it's a clear penalty, the black and white flag would be absurd.
If in the pre-race meeting drivers were informed that marginal decisions would result in a black and white flag, then the post-race discussion ceases to be about the stewarding decisions and instead becomes about whether the move was marginal or not… which is inevitable anyway. But the idea that the black and white flag is an unqualified get-out-of-jail-free card is quite bogus and I think Palmer's column is packed with hyperbole.
I think a lot of commentators have a bit of a contradiction to resolve, as well. A lot of the talk is along the lines of "if we didn't have these tarmac run-offs, we wouldn't need so many rules". It's a viewpoint I have a lot of sympathy with, but on Sunday I didn't hear anyone saying "thank goodness there's a tarmac run-off at the second chicane these days because otherwise Leclerc would have put Hamilton in the gravel and ended his race". Palmer bemoans the idea of the black and white flag because "there is a serious risk that the days of an overtake around the outside are well and truly over", yet the loss of tarmac run-offs would have the same effect but much more so. There's no acknowledgement that (at least as far as I perceive it from 35 or so years of watching) these days there's much more overtaking round the outside than there used to be, not least because of the tarmac run-offs. If Monza still had its old configuration Hamilton wouldn't have even tried that move, nor would he have passed Vettel the same way last year.
There is no single right answer. But it has to be acknowledged that drivers and teams will necessarily and rightly push the rules to breaking point, and as a result drivers will make finely judged decisions and stewards will always face marginal decisions. They don't have the luxury of measuring physical things as scrutineers do. It makes sense to have a tool for dealing with those marginal decisions, and I think the black and white flag isn't a bad one. The key is that it has to be applied with two principles: firstly, only to marginal decisions; and secondly, any subsequent marginal decisions have to result in a clear penalty.
Of course everyone needs a consistent understanding of the rules and the stewarding when the lights go out, and nothing should change during a race. But that shouldn't mean that no changes should even be made between races; nor does it mean that all stewarding decisions will become (ironically) black and white.
In short: use of the black and white flag does not inherently mean inconsistent stewarding.
TBH I’m nterested tosee how they deal with the new slipstreaming in Q3 dilemma.
eddiebaby
Member
TBH I’m nterested tosee how they deal with the new slipstreaming in Q3 dilemma.
Not sure there any tracks left this season where having a tow pays off? I enjoyed it anyway tbh. Mixed the pack up a bit + added some drama.
Yeah, I don't think that really needs dealing with. Even if you think it was a Really Awful Thing, it's Monza-specific and it's only happened once.