I thought the radio message "we'll discuss it after the race" was a bit odd. I would have that it would have been discussed before the race.
I think he was expecting to get the place back like in Hungary (?) last year. Toto did some other sums in his head and changed his mind. Not good but it is an F1 team, not a democracy.
No one else think that FIA came to the rescue again for that block?
I'm glad they did as it would have been more boring if Vettel got a drive through, but I do think the penalty would have applied to someone else.
I agree. The FIA would have penalized anyone else with the blocking move Vettel pulled, Imagine if it was Max to had pulled it.
I suspect the only reason they didn't was that Hamilton avoided contact and then Vettel pretty much waved him through a couple of turns later, having realised that what he'd done was a bit naughty
Something has changed between mercedes and ferrari, I think perhaps merc have been playing silly buggers (the lewis Singapore pole and the 0.5s+ in russia) hiding their true pace for whatever reason.
They had to do it as a team (even Vettel agreed as such in the post-race interviews). Imagine not doing it then having a couple of reliability issues and a crash then going on to lose the Championship by a couple of points...
Something has changed between mercedes and ferrari, I think perhaps merc have been playing silly buggers (the lewis Singapore pole and the 0.5s+ in russia) hiding their true pace for whatever reason.
And all the talk was about how Ferrari had made big gains!
I think a lot is down to Lewis - he really turns it on at the back end of the year. Almost as if it takes him a few months to get going.
As for Bottas - he can take his sulky face round the back of the garages. If you want No.1 status you have to turn up every race weekend and produce the goods. He's very lucky he got a contract for next season so early as Mercedes have a back-log of good young drivers now.
And as for Vettel - I'm really looking forward to seeing his sulky face next season when Leclerc hits his stride. Unfortunately for Vettel there is no big team for him to run away too now.
As to the performance cahngc, earlier in the season the Ferrari was venting something out of the back of the car at various points, no one could say for sure what it was, but there were rumours of party mode/fuelling cleverness/skullduggery* there were also rumours of Ferrari having a complex battery system (that the FiA couldn't work out) that may have been giving additional undetectable boost.
Whatever the Ferrari was venting has stopped, and their performance has dropped off...
No idea on the battery though.
*Delete depending on your viewpoint;-)
^ Yes, DC or someone made the same point on the C4 broadcast.
Talking of smoke, noticed a fair bit from Lewis' car also they had an oil leak and he was talking about hesitation in the race. Wonder if he'll have to take a new engine?
Vettel pretty much waved him through a couple of turns later, having realised that what he’d done was a bit naughty
You really think that? Vettel needs every point he can get, he's hardly likely to voluntarily drop himself to third knowing that doing so will also gift Hamilton a win. He switched back to the racing line to avoid getting mugged on the following straight, I think he just hadn't counted on such bold braking from Hamilton (or maybe he was thinking of his own lunge in Baku). The move looked right on the limit given where he dived from, the shallow entry and the recovered exit. Licking the Ricciardo stamp, as it were.
He’s very lucky he got a contract for next season so early as Mercedes have a back-log of good young drivers now.
This. Bottas isn't a title contender and never will be. But he's quick enough to call into play when push comes to shove and gets on well enough with the better driver in the other car, just as is the case with Raikkonen with Vettel*. But Ocon or Russell would mean having to deal with a whole new political balance, which would be a daft move when Hamilton's in full flow.
* personally I suspect Ferrari are envisioning Leclerc as their number one driver from 2020 onwards.
Proper racing, how many penalties would each driver get in 2018? 🙄
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1047851839851388929
Given it was soaking, both went off track and none of the contract looked to have intent, I doubt there would be any penalties for that now.
Not looking good for Ferrari again after FP1 & 2, Vettel 0.8 seconds behind Hamilton, should imagine the mercs had something left too.
Explanation of Ferrari's apparent loss of engine performance:
https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1048104432381116416
TLDR: Likely some clever way of deploying extra energy within a grey area of the rules and connected to the two battery set up which the FIA has probably clamped down on following more data gathering with extra sensors - as suggested by LH, not cheating but typical F1 practice of playing to the rules and being smart - good work by Ferrari, right process (as set by precendent) by the FIA.
Another mare for Vettel, 9th!! Hamilton’s 80th pole too boot.
Watching finger boy having his year just gets better and better.
Turns out Alonso was right to ditch Ferrari. They show no sign of being a championship winning team.
Except that even if the team had made the same mistakes, it's a fair bet that Alonso would have made way fewer mistakes on track than Vettel.
And with the benefit of hindsight you can hardly say going to the team that's now right at the back of the grid means it turns out he was right.
Well, he was a bit optimistic about McLaren, but if anyone had said five years ago that Alonso driving a McLaren would be qualifying at the back of the grid, they would have been laughed at. Astonishing how far Williams and McLaren have fallen in the last 30 years.
Yes, I think Alonso would have made less mistakes than Vettel, maybe even won the championship last year and this, but his point about Ferrari being badly managed seems to have been spot on.
Ferrari have historically always been poorly managed, especially when things start to go wrong. Ignoring the Schumi years as they were exceptional, it's easy to see a pattern. When things go well for them they have a habit of dropping the ball once. This wakes them up for a few races then they drop the ball again, This causes the Italian media to go into a frenzy, changes are made and more mistakes creep in. This causes a downward spiral that stops at a season's end or by a major change operationally. They then regroup over the winter break and they carry on until they drop the ball again, etc. This season is slightly different as it was going well for them until Sergio Marchionne's passing lead to them dropping the ball but it has been unravelling since then.
Without strong leadership and a disconnect from the politics of Italian media Ferrari will always have ups and downs in form. The only anomaly has been the Todt/Brawn/Schumi years where the team was basically disconnected from the Car division. Alonso was right and Vettel is learning that the hard way.
The Schumacher era was a success at Ferrari as the whole top leadership of the team was not Italian.
It has been proven once again as long as the top of the Ferrari leadership is Italian they will struggle to win the world championship again.
Interesting video. So Ferrari have lost thier borderline illegal advantage and Finger Boy / Arrivabene are trying too hard to make up for it.
Not saying that the Ferrari engine power thing isn't a bit fishy, but I think part of it is that Merc got on top of their tyre management issues. Ferrari's deficit in Singapore wouldn't have been just due to engine power. In Russia, Ferrari couldn't get the front and rear tyres up to temperature evenly, whereas Merc could.
In Russia, Ferrari couldn’t get the front and rear tyres up to temperature evenly, whereas Merc could.
I would have thought Pirelli would have worked closely with Ferrari to help them get the most out of the tyres as was being mooted last season
I have to say - decent job by Lance Stroll. In know it's only 14th but around Suzuka that's a decent position in a shocking car.
And Vettel - well! Bad decision by the team but ultimately the driver makes the call.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vettel retires over the winter. If Ferrari can't win this year, they're not going to next year, plus a new, young driver with lots to prove.
Bad decision by the team but ultimately the driver makes the call.
If the team says “it is about to rain” then there’s only one call to make
The other 9 teams didn't make that call.
As Martin Brundle always bangs on about - pick the right tyres for the conditions at the time.
They aren't a back-marker team taking a gamble that may gain them a couple of spots.
They aren’t a back-marker team taking a gamble that may gain them a couple of spots.
That does seem to be the direction they are headed in. Ref: McLaren, Williams
Vettel has just thrown away any chance of the championship with that move.
What a bloody amateur. He's lucky to have 4 world titles to his name - certainly not driving like one.
No penalty - Ferrari International Assistance strikes again! 🙂
That was a pathetic attempt!
Wonder if ferrari will swap Vettel and Raikkonnen seeing as there's a 35 second gap between them. He doesn't deserve any extra points the way he's driven this weekend.
Nope, management sending him a message I think 😒
Vettel's head has gone.
How he has the cheek to blame Verstappen for that crash is beggers belief. He only had to wait a few corners and take him down the straight. He could have finished 2nd today.
I don't see Ferrari winning the world championship again with Vettel as the lead driver. He screwed it up last year and he has screwed it up this year. Yes the team has made a number of mistakes but as a driver he has cost them far more points.
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">Nope, management sending him a message I think
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I thought this also
Spanish TV have apparently been reporting that Ferrari asked Kimi to slow down but he ignored them!
I'm sure Vettel was over 30s behind Kimi 1-2 laps from the end, but finished only 19s behind.
Prolly did get the message, but to drive at 2/3rd the average lap speed, he probably thought sod it, it's up to Vettel to catch up. He's out of the team, so why be a team player? for a whopping 2 points.
No idea if there's a site that has lap times for all drivers for all laps? cba to re-watch the highlights or catchup to confirm.
IMO the scenarios were different between the Ferrari and Mercedes team orders, in Sochi Hamilton was behind Bottas for a lot of the race, in japan Vettel was nowhere near Raikkonen so his race wasn’t being compromised.
A somewhat less suspicious theory about Ferrari's lack of pace.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/mph-ferraris-engine-mystery
Now this makes me sad - Donington Museum to close on Nov 5th...
https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/10/12/sad-day-for-motorsport-as-donington-museum-to-close/
...I've been round this museum many times on race weekends and for a day out with my father-in-law. If you live close by then take the chance now to see some fantastic historic F1 cars up very close.
A few pics from local newspaper site. It's an old museum but has a certain charm to it in that there are no flashy big screen displays and the like. You potter, look and admire to beauty of the cars...
Seen this on a facebook page yesterday. I'm heading down to a wedding this weekend in Birmingham so will be having a mooch around at the motors on Sunday. The wife cannot wait...
Kinda spoilt by the pic of Maggie overseeing things
https://twitter.com/GeorgeRussell63/status/1050765164914589697
Oh dear, looks like sebs going to get a grid penalty for not slowing sufficiently under reds in fp1. That'll increase the chance of Lewis wrapping up the title on Sunday.
yeah if it does happen he'll be well pissed as it was just a "bit" of gravel kicked up by his future team mate 🙂
I really cannot stand Vettel but I think the grid penalty is a bit over the top and robs us of a good quali and race.
Has his new team mate literally kicked sand (gravel) in his face?
Nah. That Ferrari as we all know can easily make up places during the race. Now, the obvious plan is for Vettel to do so sensibly and cleverly, extending Hamilton’s task to every next race. It doesn’t matter if he finishes 10 minutes behind, as long as it’s in 2nd, and he can always hope for a Mercedes issue that brings Bottas or Hamilton backward.
What he should do of course is make kamikaze starts and overtakes to try to get it all done tomorrow... ahem.
If Hamilton wins Vettel has to finish second.
It doesn’t matter if he finishes 10 minutes behind, as long as it’s in 3rd
I thought a Mercedes 1-2 was enough to end it all ?
Yes Eddie baby is correct. I edited my post 🙂
I really cannot stand Vettel but I think the grid penalty is a bit over the top and robs us of a good quali and race.
Yep.
He broke safety rules. If guilty there has to be a penalty. Besides his car will easily get him past everything bar the Red Bulls and the Mercs. And to be honest the best sport will be watching him try to get past Max.
He broke safety rules. If guilty there has to be a penalty.
Was anyone really in danger? A fine or suspended penalty would have at least made the championship outcome a bit more exciting. As it is, if Hamilton wraps up the title this weekend, it won't seem quite right.
Really. It's not the earliest a title has been won and finger boy has been pretty crap of late. Since the Red Bull days of shoot into the lead and out of DRS he has looked a bit weak. This latter half of the season finger boy has looked desperate.
F1 is just disappearing up it's own ar*e! .... so sad.
The penalty for Vettel is (for once) consistent with other penalties given out for similar offences. Being lenient on seb would bring back the old "ferrari international assistance" claims, so they pretty much had to apply it.
I really cannot stand Vettel but I think the grid penalty is a bit over the top and robs us of a good quali and race.
Yet another error on top of a string of errors from both Vettel and the team in the latter half of the season. Every one of them seems to have compounded the problem, made Vettel more desperate and more likely to make further errors.
why do I get the feeling that both fins at the front of the grid have been told if the opportunity arises 😉
Ha.
That said the Ferraris looked just as quick as the Mercs yesterday and the Mercs - if not playing games - looked slow on the alternate tyre. Could be interesting tonight.
Really looking forward to that sprint uphill to corner 1.
Was anyone really in danger?
He didn’t know that at the time, plus it’s not his call to make.
Yay, fingerboy does it again.
As does Ricciardo. 🙁
Wow. This is exciting. Loving the Hamilton / Raikkonen camera work off the cars.
so presumably kimi can go to the end on the soft, hamilton most likely has to pit again. Should be a good battle at the end.
Can't believe Max pulled off that undercut. Superb
Aye great race so far. Fascinating strategies playing out. Loved the little dummy Raikkonen threw Hamilton at the pits when Hamilton was told to do what he didn’t. Can’t wait for the battle at the end when Merc inevitably pit.
Merc are gonna lose this if they're not careful.
Here we go!
Wonder if Max can get those supers to the end...
Looking good.
Lewis getting a bit stressy in that cockpit... but still delivering the goods with lap times. Gonna be interesting when he reaches Max
race of the year so far for me. 1 lap to go...
epic race, loved it
Well done Kimi. Over the moon for him. 113 races since his last one!