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[Closed] F1 2017 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

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According to James Allen, the McHonda has completed more racing laps than Red Bull so far this season (ok, so it was way off pace...but not a good advert for Renault...)


 
Posted : 10/08/2017 2:14 pm
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the McHonda has completed more racing laps

I don't think Alonso considers what McHonda are doing to be "racing".


 
Posted : 10/08/2017 2:23 pm
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Ferrari extend Raikonen until end of 2018 season.


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 12:04 pm
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Just seen that - means Vettel is staying too as he wants Kimi as his wing-man. No other reason to keep him.


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 12:06 pm
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I really don't get why they keep him when there's so much other talent they could try. Maybe he's still got those pictures of Marccione stashed away safely.


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 12:25 pm
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I really don't get why they keep him when there's so much other talent they could try.

Because he's the new version of Massa and Barrichello - good on their day, but very pliable and will do what Vettel/Ferrari wants.

Can you imaging the likes of Perez working for Vettel?


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 12:30 pm
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Anyone else seen the new Williams film? I thought it was really interesting- talk about a single minded man! Fairly emotionless too, even right at the end... Claire came across really well, but would've liked to see more about the family row between her and her brother on getting the deputy principal role...


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 12:36 pm
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Vettel's out of contract this year too. Would LMFAO if he ditched Ferrari now but that's not looking likely, especially with Kimi as his #2.

From the team POV though surely you'd want 2 drivers who could deliver regular 1-2s to clean up in the Constructors champ, and Kimi doesn't seem to be that driver any more. Though if you're getting Ferrari's extra wedge of cash from the prize pot does the WCC matter as much to you?


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 12:38 pm
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Can you imaging the likes of Perez working for Vettel?

Ricciardo would be better. It worked out well when they were teammates, with a clear leader and water-carrier.


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 12:41 pm
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Ricciardo would be better. It worked out well when they were teammates, with a clear leader and water-carrier.

Ricciardo was beating Vettel hands down when they were at Red Bull, I don't think that would work


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 2:42 pm
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Ricciardo was beating Vettel hands down when they were at Red Bull

Exactly.


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 3:01 pm
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I would love it if Ricciardo stepped up to Ferrari, not sure where Vettel would go though


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 3:08 pm
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Mercedes


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 3:12 pm
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Mercedes

Hmm, I just can't see that happening..


 
Posted : 22/08/2017 3:38 pm
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Stoff staying with McWhoever next year

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-confirms-vandoorne-for-2018-season-943706/?s=1


 
Posted : 23/08/2017 12:14 pm
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Looks like Honda have finally caved to pressure and have reportedly engaged with Ilmor to help design a 2018 powerplant.


 
Posted : 23/08/2017 12:30 pm
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Excellent. Wasn't it Ilmor that helped Renault revise their engine so it was even less reliable, but only one year behind Merc instead of two years behind?


 
Posted : 23/08/2017 2:37 pm
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To little, to late I suspect.


 
Posted : 23/08/2017 2:56 pm
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There aren't many choices next year. A Renault option was on the table, with Honda moving to supply Toro Rosso, but that deal looks to have fallen through. Renault supplying four teams would be a stretch, they'd want something big in return which could conceivably entail a swap of Alonso for Kubica or Hulkenberg. I think it's obvious that Palmer will be making his departure sooner rather than later, the only other potential for the spare Renault seat is Sainz.

Mercedes or Ferrari power is out of the frame now, so it's about Honda convincing McLaren and Fernando that they can put a competitive engine into what appears to be a competent chassis. Unless there's a shock announcement on the 1st September that McLaren will be partnered by VAG, Cosworth or someone else who've developed a turbo hybrid V6 in secret then the price for a Renault engine may be too much.


 
Posted : 23/08/2017 3:57 pm
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Genuine question, why do Ilmor seem to have such valuable knowledge despite not being engaged in F1? Obviously they have engine knowledge from other series but does that correlate directly to the V6's in F1?


 
Posted : 23/08/2017 4:12 pm
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Good question!!


 
Posted : 23/08/2017 4:30 pm
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Looks like Williams pit stops may struggle this weekend due to a [url= http://www.crash.net/f1/news/872721/1/guy-martin-joins-williams-f1-pit-crew-for-belgian-gp ]new pit crew member[/url] having to put down his brew when the car comes in.


 
Posted : 24/08/2017 12:31 pm
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Genuine question, why do Ilmor seem to have such valuable knowledge despite not being engaged in F1?

I think part of the problem with Honda is that they got good results with a single-cylinder test engine on the dyno, but when they built a V6 version and put it into the car, it sucked. I think the idea with Ilmor is to review the development process to understand why the real-world results didn't match the dyno.

With Renault (and maybe Honda), I think the idea was that Ilmor could advise on combustion chamber design. Merc and Ferrari apparently use some advanced lean-burn technology that is more like a diesel engine than a petrol, so they got much better combustion efficiency. However, Renault apparently rejected the Ilmor advice and continued with their own technology instead.


 
Posted : 24/08/2017 12:52 pm
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So...Alonso to Williams?!


 
Posted : 26/08/2017 10:32 am
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Guy Martin in pits

[url= http://f1.channel4.com/video/guy-martin-job-swap ]http://f1.channel4.com/video/guy-martin-job-swap[/url]


 
Posted : 26/08/2017 10:54 pm
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So...Alonso to Williams?!

That would be awesome, I'd love to see it.

But with Bottas uncertain for 2018 and Williams running Merc engines (at a discount following Valteri's move to Merc), the path would be clear for Alonso to jump to Mercedes in favour of a seat at Williams.


 
Posted : 27/08/2017 12:09 am
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Leaving Merc with the most insane driver salary bill and potential conflict between their drivers, again. Can't see Hamilton leaving, and can't see Alonso going to Merc until that's happened.


 
Posted : 27/08/2017 4:08 am
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And why is Bottas uncertain? He's doing exactly what is required...


 
Posted : 27/08/2017 8:45 am
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It seems Stroll's father is all for it...he thinks it would develop the team and Lance. I'd like to see it (but I'd like to see anyone but Massa in that car). But it wouldn't help Alonso get a competitive car next year....Williams have been way off this year


 
Posted : 27/08/2017 8:49 am
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Alonso --> Williams is an intetesting thought but I can't see Alonso in such an uncompetitive car!


 
Posted : 27/08/2017 10:51 am
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The 2017 Williams seems to be a real dog, I can't imagine Alonso would want anything to do with them unless Stroll's dad has promised to pump enough cash in to improve their technical department. That would still be a multi-year project, so doesn't really make sense for Alonso.


 
Posted : 27/08/2017 11:08 am
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[quote=hols2 ]That would still be a multi-year project, so doesn't really make sense for Alonso.

On the contrary, that seems exactly the sort of deal he goes for, leaving just before it all pays off!

As awful as Honda have been, I'd still bet on them managing to turn it around by 2019 - Williams don't look anywhere near producing a championship winning car in the next few seasons, whilst McLaren might still be rubbish in 2018/2019, they could be great, there certainly isn't much wrong with the chassis.


 
Posted : 27/08/2017 2:25 pm
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well done to lewis, fantastic lap!


 
Posted : 02/09/2017 9:52 pm
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Insane conditions. Big effort by the Red Bulls too, shame about the grid penalties.


 
Posted : 02/09/2017 10:21 pm
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Did anyone see Vandoorne's slide? That's car control.


 
Posted : 02/09/2017 10:48 pm
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Penalties are getting properly ridiculous. Only Hamilton starting where he qualified, 9 out of 20 drivers getting a penalty 🙁


 
Posted : 03/09/2017 12:40 pm
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I've got to the point where I can't be bothered to watch the highlights even, and reading through the grid penaltys fiasco I gave up! I will suggest though ..... McLaren blink too soon and Torro Rosso reap the benefits?


 
Posted : 04/09/2017 7:50 am
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Did anyone see Vandoorne's slide? That's car control.

Yes! Really amazing.

I have a lot of sympathy for Alonso, I never liked him before either. But Vandoorme has quietly got on with the job, no moaning or grandstanding but regularly outperforming Alonso. Hopefully that won't go unnoticed with whoever hires and fires in F1.


 
Posted : 04/09/2017 8:31 am
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I will suggest though ..... McLaren blink too soon and [b]Red Bull[/b] reap the benefits

FTFY

And we know how popular they are when they're winning...


 
Posted : 04/09/2017 8:33 am
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[quote=Moe ]I've got to the point where I can't be bothered to watch the highlights even, and reading through the grid penaltys fiasco I gave up! I will suggest though ..... McLaren blink too soon and Torro Rosso reap the benefits?

I know what you mean, but it's good watching top drivers make it back up through the field. What a drive by Ricciardo!


 
Posted : 04/09/2017 8:36 am
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Moe - Member
I've got to the point where I can't be bothered to watch the highlights even, and reading through the grid penaltys fiasco I gave up!

Absolutely. This year has an actual championship battle, Monza tends to be my favourite race, and I'm still feeling very 'meh' about bothering to watch.

Last year I was getting a sizeable fix of FIA RX on YouTube instead, but they've cut the catch-up footage right back now 🙁


 
Posted : 04/09/2017 10:22 am
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But Vandoorme has quietly got on with the job, no moaning or grandstanding but regularly outperforming Alonso

Not in qualifying he hasn't... it's 8-2 to Alonso. Alonso has only been classified in half of the races he's done but only completed two. I'm no fan of Alonso but he's had the upper hand on Stoffel for the season so far (as you'd expect for someone of his calibre)


 
Posted : 04/09/2017 10:46 am
 Moe
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But Vandoorme has quietly got on with the job, no moaning or grandstanding but regularly outperforming Alonso

but every utterance from Alonso will be broadcast, whereas Vandoornes opinions will be not quite as news worthy maybe.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 6:09 am
 Moe
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I will suggest though ..... McLaren blink too soon and Red Bull reap the benefits

Would there be any for next season? Highly improbable but it would be nice to see a team do a 'Brawn' again.

..... oh good grief, I'm getting drawn back in again, we're as bad as football fans! Just so want it to work!


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 6:15 am
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I will suggest though ..... McLaren blink too soon and Torro Rosso reap the benefits?

I was always in the 'Honda will get it right' camp, but they just don't seem to be able to. After this one there are only 3 seasons left with this current engine format and I can't now see Honda making good enough progress in that time. And if by fluke they do, it's all change again for 2021!

I think McLarens reasoning is this - take a Renault engine, prove they have got a good chassis, move up the teams standings. They could then try and pick up a manufacturer deal with one of the new engine suppliers who are lurking around F1 waiting to see what the new rules are.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 8:06 am
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[url= https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/porsche-confirms-formula-1-interest-for-2021-949446/?s=1 ]Porsche[/url] making positive noises about a return (as engine supplier) when the new regs come in. So if Honda stay that'd be 5 engine suppliers, each able to support up to 3 teams (under current regs) so a potential grid of 30 cars. Bring it on!


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 11:22 am
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That would be interesting, suspect you'd need to get costs down drastically and alter the distribution of funds to attract new teams though.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 11:29 am
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Do we know roughly what the 2021 engine regs will look like. I'm guessing they will ditch the MGU-H as they seem to be pretty problematic


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 11:35 am
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Still in the air for definitive regs, twin turbos seem to be a given though and MGU-H removal - but this may help...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tech-analysis-f1-s-engine-options-past-2020-889758/


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 11:45 am
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They (McLaren) could then try and pick up a manufacturer deal with one of the new engine suppliers who are lurking around F1 waiting to see what the new rules are.

Is this likely? I mean how many engine suppliers are really just waiting in the wings to plow vast amounts of money into F1, especially at the point when electric cars are becoming more fashionable.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 12:18 pm
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Is this likely? I mean how many engine suppliers are really just waiting in the wings to plow vast amounts of money into F1, especially at the point when electric cars are becoming more fashionable.

Porsche/Audi/VW (whatever they choose!)
Cosworth
BMW
Aston Martin

Have all expressed an interest.

Porsche are quitting sportscars and Audi already have so the VW group have the budget.

And Formula E is still a niche (and still relatively slow speed) series.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 12:24 pm
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Expressed and interest and being serious are two very different things. Aston Martin, Cosworth & VW/Porsche were all at the meetings, but that doesn't mean they'll commit to anything. Cosworth are the only real likely folk to appear IMO. And anyway the Aston and Porsche are unlikely to commit to McLaren what with them being in competition with them in the road market. Honda and Renault seem to be McLaren's only options for now and the foreseeable future.

A quick Google throws up various links to quash any BMW involvement e.g. Autosport understands Toyota has joined BMW and Ford in not considering a return to F1.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 12:37 pm
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I think Joe Saward or someone reported a few weeks back that McLaren were seriously looking at setting up their own engine program for the new regs.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 1:02 pm
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It's the worst possible time to be stepping away from a works engine deal. If McLaren play it smart, they'll engineer a swap of engine with Toro Rosso, with a contractual clause that will allow them to swap back to Honda for 2019 if Honda sort their shit out next year.

Alonso is a positive for McLaren, but at thirty six it's unrealistic to expect him to be around in 2019. Better to retain his services for an official works Indycar challenge (or even Le Mans) with a Honda engine.

By 2021, with new regs it's not unfeasible that McLaren could partner the likes of Porsche (who built the TAG engines used until the end of 1987) or even build their own power unit.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 1:57 pm
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McLaren - Porsche is the sort of hook up that's no longer possible for them. As direct competitors, how does either company market that they need the other to make things happen?


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 2:44 pm
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I think Porsche are on something of a high at the moment [sales wise] so I doubt they'd do anything to potentially affect that.


 
Posted : 05/09/2017 6:47 pm
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I used to think "well it's Honda, they are bound to sort the issues out and have an awesome engine any day now". But I've lost faith in that, it just seems as bad now as it was when they first returned. Maybe a little faster but all the comedy grid penalties and breakdowns are just plain embarrassing now.

McLaren can't wait forever, Honda are a bit of a laughing stock really.


 
Posted : 06/09/2017 8:40 am
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Sainz to Renault then (possibly from Malaysia)...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-renault-switch-str-mclaren-honda-951146/


 
Posted : 10/09/2017 12:13 pm
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One interesting consequence of this is that Red Bull and McLaren will be running the same engines next year- which will certainly test how good McLaren's chasssis really is as well as hopefully provide some good Alonso/Verstappen/Ricciardo match ups on track! 🙂


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 7:38 am
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Shame for Sainz that, in a way..I would much rather have seen him get Kimi's seat at Ferrari.


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 7:53 am
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So that's the end of Palmer then ?


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 8:14 am
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Shame for Sainz that, in a way..I would much rather have seen him get Kimi's seat at Ferrari.

It's good for him that he's out of the Red Bull system - at least he's now free to go where he wants in future rather than wait for a space in the Red Bull team.


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 8:21 am
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It's all speculation and rumour at the moment, no formal announcements have been made... but yeah, looks like Palmer's career is going the same way as his dad's.

Always worth remembering that Zac Brown (of McLaren) is also pulling the strings at Motorsport.com so their sources should be quite reliable on the whole McRenault story.

Though as this involves Alonso it's now guaranteed that Honda will deliver a massive step in winter testing.


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 8:25 am
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So that's the end of Palmer then ?

He's been a dead man walking for months


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 8:31 am
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Shame for Sainz that, in a way..I would much rather have seen him get Kimi's seat at Ferrari.

Same! Although the problem with Ferrari is that they do seem to love a fairly rigid driver hierachy, and with Vettel there until 2020 it does queer the pitch a little for any prospective Raikkonen replacements..


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 8:36 am
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Always worth remembering that Zac Brown (of McLaren) is also pulling the strings atMotorsport.com so their sources should be quite reliable on the whole McRenault story.

But also could very much be Zac Brown putting out a story to try and force through the deal they want! 😉


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 8:41 am
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So guess that means Kubica isn't coming back to Renault then. 🙁


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 9:29 am
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So guess that means Kubica isn't coming back to Renault then.

Not to Renault but Toro Rosso are going to need a replacement for Sainz until the end of the season. Does Kubica have a Superlicence?


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 9:45 am
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Not to Renault but Toro Rosso are going to need a replacement for Sainz until the end of the season. Does Kubica have a Superlicence?

Not sure but he's done the mileage and has shown "outstanding ability in a single seater" so I'd guess even if he hasn't it'd be a formality as this point.

I would have thought though that Gasly will take the seat at TR. Guess they [i]could [/i]be ditching Kvyat at the same time and Kubica could fill that seat but it seems unlikely given TR will want some stability for the development work.


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 10:48 am
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Of course, Gasly! Duh!! Lol


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 10:56 am
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Kubica won't go to Torro Rosso - it's not what they exist for.

Unfortunately, I think Renault was his only chance due to their history.


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 11:00 am
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I'm pretty sure Kvyat has already been re-signed for next year.


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 11:10 am
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Evil smurf - sorry, Massa may be dropped for Kubica.
Massa apparently wants to play in formula E ( where he may win something or be competitive )


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 11:20 am
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I'm pretty sure Kvyat has already been re-signed for next year.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 11:39 am
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[url= https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kvyat-new-toro-rosso-contract-928978/ ]Kvyat set for new contract[/url]


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 11:44 am
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

+1,000,000!

There's no room for sulkly faces like his in F1. 😀


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 11:47 am
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A bit more background from Mark Hughes...

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/williams-alonso-or-kubica


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 1:19 pm
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To be fair that article was written a couple of months ago and things may have changed since- as evidenced by the fact that it seems to be suggesting that Sainz was going to be renewing his Toro Rosso contract also. I'd be surprised to see Kvyat next year, but it won't be the first time a seemingly less than impressive driver gets a contract extention!


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 3:23 pm
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Kvyat might bring with him lots of Russian money, so he could well end up with a seat.


 
Posted : 11/09/2017 3:33 pm
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