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Nice looking car, intersting to see what the road circuit setup will look like
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The "look" is important though.. as is the "sound" which they've already bolloxed up.. Whenever I've had the pleasure of hearing one of the old V10 screamers up close all the hairs on my neck stand up, they really are something to behold. 1.6 turbos... not so much.
Meh. Looks like the aero was specced by a stylist rather than a windtunnel/CFD, but then again if you put a bunch of the same car on a track you'll get close racing no matter how crap the aero is.
But F1 is (still) way too much the other way - a gazillion winglets, slot gaps and suchlike which just ads to the cost without improving the show.
I'm hoping that Brawn can come up with something that looks good, keeps costs down AND provides good racing. With any luck that will attract new entrants to F1 and thereby enable the folks in the aero/CFD depts to keep their jobs by moving to smaller departments in the new teams.
ETA - nick has a point. I don't mind the sound of the new F1 but I remember back in the day at Silverstone when you could virtually be at Stowe and still hear a car fire up in the (old) pits.
Finally got round to sorting some of my Silverstone photos....
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4301/35347178713_afc5e5ff7a_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4301/35347178713_afc5e5ff7a_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/VRvwKK ]DSC_0925[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4297/35347176943_3c5e9b0a7a_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4297/35347176943_3c5e9b0a7a_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/VRvwee ]DSC_0990[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4314/36021200721_90eaa88d42_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4314/36021200721_90eaa88d42_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/WT551R ]DSC_0730[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4317/36021201921_7a6b0982ee_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4317/36021201921_7a6b0982ee_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/WT55nx ]DSC_0689[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4291/35347172613_a62043a8c8_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4291/35347172613_a62043a8c8_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/VRvuWz ]DSC_0620[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4329/36021199641_bf0ac2f9e8_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4329/36021199641_bf0ac2f9e8_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/WT54Ge ]DSC_0010[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr
Theres many more if you click the links
Great photos!! 🙂
I'm so excited about the Silverstone Classic this weekend and some of the sounds I'll be hearing.
Interesting piece on Merc v Ferrari and the recent technical bans.
Interesting read that. Explains the tyre issues
More pics of that Indycar...
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https://twitter.com/marshallpruett/status/889852505286463488
https://twitter.com/marshallpruett/status/889871383114776581
I'm so excited about the Silverstone Classic this weekend and some of the sounds I'll be hearing.
Me too!! Going on the Saturday purely to watch the FW14B and the Super Touring Cars 8)
The more I look at that Indycar the more I like it. Obviously the aero isn't as complex as F1, but isn't that what everyone wants anyway? Imagine being able to run nose-tail and DRS going in the bin where it belongs........ bliss
Oooh. Are they all cheaty cheaters?
Actually I think they are both pushing the rules as far as they can, and rightly so, but both those devices do look like variable and controlled aerodynamics.
Interesting read. (BAFly's one)
They all [s]cheat[/s] bend the rules a bit - Red Bull flexy wing story...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bulls-new-front-wing-under-scrutiny-from-rivals-934070/
Indeed - and they should. It's about pushing technical boundaries to a large extent.
Renault are saying that Kubica not in the frame for a 2017 drive but not ruled out for 2018. Looks like JP can continue his rise to mediocrity in Spa.
[url= https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kubica-not-in-frame-palmer-renault-replacement-934880/?s=1 ]source[/url]
in other news....
Sauber say no to honda...
[url= http://www.crash.net/f1/news/283335/1/sauber-honda-call-off-engine-deal-for-f1-2018.html ]Sauber Say no to Honda [/url]
and
halos will get wings...que the silly T wings on the halos
[url= http://www.crash.net/f1/news/283338/1/teams-able-to-make-aero-tweaks-around-halo-whiting.html ]Halos Get Wings[/url]
I was told by a friend that his friend who works for McLaren says they're definitely going with Mercedes next year, so Honda are out of F1 then. You heard it here first (from a 3rd or 4th hand dodgy source - but my friend was quite convinced by the accuracy of the info).
i wonder who will power the Sauber? I wouldve thought merc would prefer a Sauber over Mclaren. I assume it will be a 2 year old Ferrari engine in the Sauber for 2018
[url= https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-renews-ferrari-engine-deal-935309/?s=1 ]Sauber stick with Ferrari for 2018[/url] but will get the latest engine rather than the year old version.
McLaren will have to use Honda as they are the only ones willing to pay Alonso's salary and Merc don't want them as a competitor with a good engine.
Di Resta in for an unwell Massa.
At least we won't have to listen to his dreary commentary now.
Hopefully he can have a decent race.
PDR is already subbing for the unwell Martin Brundle.
He's never been so popular!
19th and only 7 tenths behind Stroll.
Not bad for only a few laps in the car!
Well the top 4 was pretty boring today, we can only imagine what it would have been like had Ricciardo not been taken out at the start by Verstappen. The RedBull clearly had some good race pace today.
Alonso and McLaren looked good, chassis is clearly very good, just well down on power. Unfortunately for them it will be back to situation normal at Spa.
Alonso was positively beaming in the pen . Weird end with position swaps and Kimi holding station. Respect to Lewis for sticking to his word and letting Bottas pass. I'm sure Bottas will be reminded of this later in the season when it hots up. Mad Max may want to exercise caution next time he is alongside his team mate. I'm not sure why he got penalised when other tracks its deemed as a first lap racing incident? The team get penalised twice, once for losing their driver and 2) time penalty added
Magnussen to the Hulk: "suck my balls mate"
http://www.planetf1.com/news/magnussen-to-hulkenberg-suck-my-balls/
I don't really understand why Max was penalised either....first lap racing incident, it's not like he drove into Ric on purpose...he locked up under braking
The inference was that it wasnt a teensy lock up, he was going to run off the circuit if he'd not had Ricciardo to bounce him around the corner.
I thought it was a bit harsh too there is always things like this ar the start and nothing happens. Pretty boring race yesterday I dont know why this manages to stay in the race calender when other circuits have been dumped.
Sad when a 'race' involves the slowest car of the top 4 or 5 winning. Ferrari are really starting to plumb the depths again, first off their media shutdown and now handling a race in a way that showed they've learned nothing since Barichello's famous "victory" in Austria.
Yet somehow it looks like Kimi is willing to sign up for another year of the same treatment.
How was Kimi going to get past without team orders on the track described as Monaco without the walls?
Sad when a 'race' involves the slowest car of the top 4 or 5 winning.
On the other hand you could look at it as an extremely good drive from Vettel in a wounded car.
Senna used to get all sorts of plaudits when he did that sort of thing. And plenty of folk have suggested Vettel can only drive when the car is perfect - it appears they're wrong.
And Hamilton showed a little bit of class in handing the podium back.
And Hamilton showed a little bit of class in handing the podium back.
The "what if the championship comes down to 1 point" question seemed to catch him out though 🙂
The fact is Kimi just sat there like a patsy, never even looking to try to threaten Seb. Imagine Hamilton being behind Rosberg in the same situation last year, or even Vettel behind Webber - both would at least have had a couple of goes at passing before settling into place. One mistake from Kimi with Hamilton behind him could have cost Ferrari the race, then they would've looked pretty stupid to have kept Kimi bottled up in 2nd for so long when he could have been a fair way down the road.
I do agree that winning as slowly as possible is a skill - Fangio was noted for it, Senna managed it a couple of times and even the Mercs did it at Monaco but it seems at odds with the new 'bigger better faster' image that F1 is trying to portray.
Guess the upside to all the pootling up front is that Alonso managed to nab the fastest lap, which raised a smile even though it took Edwards & Coulthard an age to spot it.
Yet somehow it looks like Kimi is willing to sign up for another year of the same treatment.
He gets paid millions to drive a Ferrari and avoids all the PR & Press aggro of being the No1 driver. He is already a World Champ so doesn't have that to prove.
So flip it around and the question should be, why wouldn't you sign up again if you were Kimi?
[quote=thepurist ]The fact is Kimi just sat there like a patsy, never even looking to try to threaten Seb.
Kimi was driving no faster than Seb, yet LH sat there like a patsy never even looking like trying to threaten Kimi. 😉
One mistake from Kimi with Hamilton behind him could have cost Ferrari the race, then they would've looked pretty stupid to have kept Kimi bottled up in 2nd for so long when he could have been a fair way down the road.
Nope - one mistake from Kimi would have cost Ferrari 2nd place. If Kimi had somehow managed to pass SV then one mistake from SV would have cost Ferrari more points in the driver's championship. Have you not noticed the all eggs in one basket approach Ferrari have? Whether or not you like Ferrari's strategy, they did exactly the right thing for it, and ended up with exactly the right result for them. They would have looked really stupid if they'd let Kimi past SV and LH had then also been able to pass SV.
I dont know why this manages to stay in the race calender when other circuits have been dumped.
Given that the race was awarded under Bernie's regime the answer is simple, cash and lots of it
Twodogs - Member
I don't really understand why Max was penalised either....first lap racing incident, it's not like he drove into Ric on purpose...he locked up under braking
From the onboard it looked to me like he braked late with the intention of running a bit wide and forcing Ric to brake or go off the track.
I can't imagine for a second the actual contact was intentional, too much risk of braking a suspension arm or getting a puncture.
OK let's just agree that if seb gets wobbly steering at Spa the outcome will be very different 🙂 yesterday was a combination of team orders, circuit layout and patsies. Plus a few radio gremlins of course.
Agreed. Winning with dodgy steering at Spa would be virtually impossible.
You can only drive the circuit you're on as it were.
But Ferrari not Vettel designed and built the steering, so one can't blame him, and as for Ferrari, the result shows that on that track on that day, they got it right.
New Indy car road body looks the bees!
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Why doesn't the front wing have 92,000 elements??
Less is more.
New f1s look like cheese graters on steroids...
McLaren Honda are finally showing some progression this season
Is Kubica testing today?
Yes, bye, bye Palmer you won't be missed.
McLaren Honda put on a good show at Hungary because the track played to the strengths of the car. The third iteration of this year's Honda engine introduced in early July has only just matched the power output of the 2016 Honda unit. We did get a glimpse of just how tidy that McLaren chassis actually is and how those trick aerodynamics help on a tight, twisty circuit.
Honda realistically have a matter of weeks to demonstrate that it can field a reliable, competitive engine for 2018, which is a monumental undertaking. I doubt very much that whatever the Honda boffins are working on will be enough to convince McLaren and Alonso to stick with the project.
McLaren will dump Honda - Torro Rosso will take them on, work through the shite times and then Red Bull will end up with a full works deal and an awesome engine in 2 years time!
McLaren should stick with them.
I'd stick with Honda rather than change to please Alonso.
Kooobitzer test updates:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/testresults/1819/formula-1-test-at-hungaroring-2-august-2017/
Still think that Indy car has been designed to look fast rather than be fast.
From sky sports....
14:10
Kubica is back on track as he nears a century of laps.
And on his previous long-run, he was certainly a model of consistency.
1:21.208
1:21.436
1:21.356
1:21.344
1:21.575
1:21.180
1:21.548
1:21.053
1:21.654
1:21.521
1:21.382
1:21.383
Those times are firmly in the region or faster than the Hungarian GP fastest laps set by Jolyon Palmer (1:21.589) and Nico Hulkenberg (1:21.611)
Bye bye Palmer.
thepurist - Member
Still think that Indy car has been designed to look fast rather than be fast.
It definitely is, it was deliberate. It'll still be doing Indy at 230mph+ though
Just been reading up about Kubica, maybe I wasn't paying attention when he last raced but I didn't realise how good he was tipped to be.
You'd be daft as a team boss not to take him on once he's fit - great story behind him, possible huge talent still waiting to see it at it's best and if he's managed to get through what he's been through I can his determination and work ethic to win will be hard to match.
If I was Mclaren I'd be signing him up ASAP - replace Alonso - maybe the coming of age of the Mclaren Honda relationship linked with the talent of Kubica could be an amazing alignment of the planets...??
Good luck to him, nice to see him back.
A man who really knows how to crash!
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I'm absolutely delighted to see how well Kubica coped with the return to driving an F1 car. He's too talented not to be on the grid, hopefully before the year is out.
So, the rumour mill is currently putting out whispers that McLaren's remaining engine options for 2018 are between Honda and Renault. Could we see Alonso back at Renault, with Kubica in a McLaren?
I don't think Renault have the money for Alonso ( who also wants to be winning - not sure Renault are there yet )
And
I don't think Renault would go to this trouble for Kubica and give him away to another team.
I think they have unfinished business together, as well as the PR good will and comparative cheapness of salary.
The Honda story is interesting, as it looks like they may find themselves without a customer just as they are making progress!
What happened to McLaren returning to Mercedes? That seems to have gone quiet...
Logical thing is to give Kubica the remainder of the season in the Renault to see if he's properly up to it.
As on and on says - Renault can't afford (or won't pay) Alonso's salary. And Renault's reliability has been as bad as Hondas.
IMO if Honda don't make significant progress over the rest of the season Alonso will go to Indycar for a year and then see what opens up in 2019.
What happened to McLaren returning to Mercedes? That seems to have gone quiet...
There was a suggestion on here that it wasn't going to happen, but I'm not sure of the basis for that, I've not seen anything ruling it out. The most recent report I can find simply says that merc will only discuss a deal after there is a formal split with Honda.
Renault's reliability has been as bad as Hondas.
The performance is there - when in a good chassis. The chances are a Renault powered macca would be faster than a Renault, so I can't see any reason why Alonso would want to make the switch.
The 2017 Honda engine is less powerful than last year's and laughably unreliable. It's unlikely that the 2018 will even be equal to Renault, let alone Ferrari and Merc. The Renault chassis is still a long way behind Red Bull and McLaren. It's unlikely that the chassis will improve enough to beat Red Bull with the same engine. Alonso's only realistic option for a competitive car next year is a McLaren with a Renault or Merc engine.
hols2 - Member
The 2017 Honda engine is less powerful than last year's and laughably unreliable
That's not surprising because they effectively started over, and last years engine had 2 years development already.
They seem to be making good progress now though. Spec 2.5/3 had no reliability concerns at the last race, and they have a new MGUH and turbo for spec 4 at Spa which they think is bringing 15/40 HP extra depending on your source.
They're still 60 hp or so behind Merc.
At the start of this year, I was prepared to give Honda the benefit of the doubt because they seemed to make a big step forward at the end of last year. Their reliability problems this year stemmed from unexpected vibrations. Even assuming that they've solved those now (and finishing one race without breaking down is a pretty low bar), it means they've spent 6 months fixing things that should have been sorted out after the first pre-season test. That doesn't speak well of Honda's management. I'm no longer prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. My opinion doesn't count for anything, obviously, but Alonso and McLaren seem to feel the same way, which does count. I don't think anybody seriously thinks Honda will be able to produce an engine that matches Renault next year, let alone Merc.
Yes agreed, aside from the token system their approach seems to have been the main problem (viewed from the outside, anyway).
[quote=hols2 ]it means they've spent 6 months fixing things that should have been sorted out after the first pre-season test.
Should have been sorted on the dyno before the first test. Presumably there is no limitation on dyno testing - it seems one of their biggest issues is their failure to create a realistic simulation on their dyno. In car testing shouldn't be for sorting out basic problems like that.
As far as I understand it the main criticism of Honda's approach has been their refusal to accept outside help, which has been reported to have changed and they are now accepting help from Mercedes, which may also explain their current progress
has been reported to have changed
A year ago they were telling us they understood the problem and that this year's engine would be a huge step forward. They have no credibility left. I'll believe they've improved when I see results on the track. Alonso and McLaren feel the same way as far as I can tell.
I'll believe they've improved when I see results on the track. Alonso and McLaren feel the same way as far as I can tell.
Double points finish and no issues in Hungary?
Double points finish and no issues in Hungary?
On a track where engine performance matters much less than nearly everywhere else, they had the 4th fastest car, with a big gap to the front runners. They managed to get two cars to the finish line for one race. That's not the level of performance that Alonso and McLaren expect.
What happened to McLaren returning to Mercedes? That seems to have gone quiet...
Because its not going to happen.
Alonso's only realistic option for a competitive car next year is a McLaren with a Renault or Merc engine.
Which isn't going to happen. Mclaren have a contract with Honda until 2021, Honda are pouring into Mclaren tens of millions of pounds, and they are also paying Alonsos wages.
Alonso has two choices: stay with Mclaren, or retire, because he's not going back to ferrari, Renault can't afford him, and why would Mercedes want him?
On a track where engine performance matters much less than nearly everywhere else, they had the 4th fastest car, with a big gap to the front runners. They managed to get two cars to the finish line for one race. That's not the level of performance that Alonso and McLaren expect.
Nope - but it's a massive improvement from not even completing the warm-up lap to the grid!
4 races ago - few people would have put them ahead of Force India and front of the mid-field.
4 races ago - few people would have put them ahead of Force India and front of the mid-field.
They were always expected to be much more competitive at Monaco and Hungary, where engine power is less important. At Silverstone, Force India were much faster because the Honda engine is so weak. See what happens at Spa.
Sonor - Member
Honda are pouring into Mclaren tens of millions of pounds, and they are also paying Alonsos wages.
McLaren have already stated that the Honda money no longer offsets the losses in prize money and sponsorship. I'm sure McLaren will have their cancellation clauses in place, and given how shit Honda have been I don't believe they'd embarass themselves further and try and insist on staying
From a chassis/aero POV the perceived wisdom is that the Macca is right up there with the Merc, Ferrari and RB, so it's no surprise at them doing well where the engine is less important (when the engine doesn't blow up).
You usually get some upsets at Hungary, remember when Damon Hill led the race in an Arrows until a rubber seal gave way?
It's a track that flatters an underpowered car with a short wheelbase and a sound chassis.
Spa is much more demanding on the engine and teams run less aero to maximise speed, the Honda engine will likely be fighting for second to last with Sauber, who are running a 2016 spec Ferrari engine.
Don't know how I feel about this:
[url= https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/08/important-update-on-the-next-steps-for-james-allen-on-f1-blog/ ]JAonF1 sold...[/url]
While it's great for James to get rewarded for the time, energy and passion he's put into his site it feels like it's going t be swallowed up by the corporation and lose it's USP. His articles have always been my go-to for unbiased info and analysis, hopefully that won't change!
Yep. The Judge disappeared up its own tailpipe a few months ago as well.
In this case, less is definitely less 🙁
Motorsport.com is becoming a bit of a monster - once they've got all the main websites under their control I bet the pay wall will follow swiftly.
I am also worried about JA disappearing behind a paywall, I check that site almost daily and I love the Tuesday analysis pieces
These look absolutely stunning- guy photographs modern F1 with a 104 year old camera