Go Max! What have you got to lose??? 🙂
Go Seb! What have you got to lose?
Bugger 🙁
Mr boring and average gets to gloat for a year, all that false emotion and smugness will [i]really[/i] annoy me.
Cock!
Meh.
cheeky Vettel holds back in the end 🙂 .. well done Nico despite the best attempts of Hamilton
Interesting that Bernie tells the camera to go away befor he has a quiet word in Rosbergs ear. Conspiracy theorists unite.
Jambalaya to the thread!
Enjoy your one and only Championship Nico. You can't be that lucky again.
Obviously Hamilton didn't pay Vettel enough to take out Rosberg! What is the sport coming to?
Great (lack of) interaction between Hamilton and Rosberg. 😈
I wonder what Niki and Toto will say about Hamilton's disobedience.
I expect Hamilton won't really care what they say, he's just lost his title and they're not going to fire him, so apart from withholding pudding their options are limited.
I wonder what Niki and Toto will say about Hamilton's disobedience.
can't really say a lot, finished 1-2 and got them a lot more exposure than they usually get when they drive off into the distance.
Nice to see some genuine emotion from Nico lol. Actually quite pleased to see him win it, I do t think anyone could have worked harder for it!
Glad Nico is champ
There was the answer from Toto. Throw out the rule book. 🙂
Is jb a teensy bit tipsy?
Well done Nico. That must have had the pulse racing.
Good job Nico.
Finally Keke can enjoy another world title after missing out for so many years. 
Listening to Rosberg's interviews all I can hear is him moaning about Hamilton backing him up into the pack. If you're that good why didn't you just pass him?
Strange how we hear the same words differently.
I may be biased as I'm not a Rosberg fan 🙂
i found it funny Rosberg trying to broker a deal in the car.
"If you let me past I'll let you back through when we're clear"
I wonder how much Hamilton will rue Baku and Singapore where he could have stashed a few more points.
No No No oh No
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Well, it wasn't Nico who came across badly today in the Mercedes camp. The right guy won the championship today
For all those LH fanbois just think what you would have been writing if Nico had done that to him.
And no, I am nt a LH fan so I may be biased
For all those LH fanbois just think what you would have been writing if Nico had done that to him.
Lewis would have overtaken him without fuss (or taken him out trying). Hamilton is already thought to have threatened to resign in the past, he might go through with the threat if suspended. Who's going to blink first?
Great publicity for the team though.
I would think it quite a good thing for him to resign or be sacked to be honest. After today, he may be a little less marketable with those who might have been willing to pay his wage demands.
As Mercedes have hinted, anarchy does not sit well with large corporations
“One half of me says that with 1,500 people in this company, you respect those values,” he said. “Undermining a structure means you are putting yourself before the team. It is very simple. Anarchy does not work in any team or in any company.” Pressed on whether Hamilton could face sanction or even suspension, Wolff replied: “Everything is possible.”
Hamilton did exactly what a true racer would do.... If anything he should have slowed up even more ! If he was allegedly going so slow how come vettel and verbs tapped didn't actually pass !!
Over exaggeration storm in a tea cup .... World championship and race 1-2. Result !
The real issue is Hamilton being ungracious and Grumpy in defeat !
I don't think he did anything wrong. I would have the same opinion if the roles had been reversed.
He's out to win the world championship and not make life easy for his rival.
If the constructors championship had also been on the line then I think it would have been different but it wasn't.
And it was Mercedes who said they'd let their drivers race until the end...
[quote=jimw ]The right guy won the championship today
The guy who only won because he hasn't had a mechanical failure all season whilst his rival has had several? The guy who is well behind in both pole positions and race results in those races where mechanical failure didn't intervene?
[quote=jimw ]I would think it quite a good thing for him to resign or be sacked to be honest. After today, he may be a little less marketable with those who might have been willing to pay his wage demands.
😆 you're really that much of a Lewis hater that you didn't notice him show his superiority today more than if he'd just driven off into the distance? Any team would snap him up - however much you might love Britney the same really couldn't be said about him (and if Mercedes even suggest any sanction for today's driving I'd expect LH to bring up all sorts of simiar or worse things Britney has done and not been sanctioned for).
Wolff replied: “Everything is possible.”
Toto being his usual coy self, saying everything and nothing. 😆
I'd imagine not many world champions haven't benefited from a rivals misfortune.
I'd have preferred Lewis to win the championship as he's the better driver, and he probably would have if he hadn't messed up a fair few starts. It wasn't just mechanicals which cost him the title.
I didn't like the way he was so ungracious in defeat though. Pretty poor that.
Well done Nikko, thrilled for him and it's good for the sport to have a new World Champion.
Hamilton is an outstanding driver with a poor attitude. He won't quit as Mercedes have the best car by miles. He lost this championship as much via a few poor performances as anything else. Ignoring team orders .. for me a definite suspension.
Hamilton was within his rights to do whatever he needed to do to win the championship, short of taking out his rival, of course. If he didn't stand a chance of the Championship, then I could understand the criticism, but he had a chance, and it was out of order for his team to give him direct orders to the contrary.
Hamilton clearly showed his superiority as a driver today. I don't begrudge Rosberg the title: it takes a mixture of skill and good luck to win the F1 title. However, Hamilton is the better driver and I would have preferred him to win, but hey ho.
[quote=Hicksy ]I'd imagine not many world champions haven't benefited from a rivals misfortune.
When we did this a few pages ago, nobody seemed to be able to come up with an example of where the world champion was so clearly inferior to his team-mate.
When we did this a few pages ago, nobody seemed to be able to come up with an example of where the world champion was so clearly inferior to his team-mate.
Well that's largely due to teams historically having a number 1 and 2 driver with clear team orders that number 1 was number 1 ?
Whatever Hamilton did today it wasn't as blatant as Schumacher ramming Damon Hill.
Hamilton needs to wind his ego in. In any other car Rossberg and Mercedes driver #2 would have beaten him by miles.
I'm not saying that Nico is better than Lewis am I (in fact I said the opposite).
Hamilton didn't lose the Championship because of a single failure, he lost it because of his poor starts at the beginning of the season. It seems strange that since he's focusssed all of his time and effort on racing (the last 3 races) he's been faultless and unstoppable.
Lewis lost the Championship and Nico deservedly won. Yes, the mechanical hurt Lewis, just like it hurt Nico in 2014, but it was within Lewis' power to correct early on.
I'm a Lewis fan, but he has bitched a lot this season...the mechanic swap, Nico's racing (and he's had his own dirty tricks this year), the clutch, the clutch, the brakes, his mechanical...etc.
But, and it's a big BUT, it's not just the retirement that hurt Lewis, it's the reliability early in the season which forced him into a 55 place penalty (which should've guaranteed reliability) again hurting his haul.
aracer, I am not a fan of Nico in the way you seem to think, I certainly don't 'love him' I'm just pleased he won the championshIp this year. I am also not a'hater' of LH, I am really just not interested enough for that. i don't like his attitude, but that doesn't extend to hate.
I just find it all a tad amusing
Is the Hamilton attitude also a problem when he wins? Are his winner celebration simply his crass way of rubbing it into the opposition for not winning, beacuase they didn't win and he did?
Of course not. The guy wears his heart on his sleeve. He had a chance of walking away as world champ and went for it, no matter how slim it appeared, and is clearly gutted by losing it. He'll be trying to work out what he could have done differently today in order to win.
I find his off track antics a bit base, but he does a bloody good job on track and is a bit like the cavalier F1 drivers of days gone by.
Rosberg is dull as a driver and as a person but the two DNFs last year might have cost him the title in 2015. Who knows?
The marketing guys must be loving this free publicity.
Most interesting was Vettel who said Hamilton was up to 'dirty tricks' and didn't want to get involved and also Jorge Lorenzo who said if Hamilton was going to back them up, then he needed to do it earlier and by that late in the race should have been thinking about the team. Personally I don't have an issue with Hamilton backing up but his attitude of I don't care about the race win now the championship is lost, was pretty off IMO. End of the day Rosberg won the title that's all that counts.
(Aside: C4 said that during their time at Merc both drivers have had the same amount of mechanicals, so if true then all fair there.)
I think toto's a nobber - imagine telling your man who's unarguably one of the best racers and 3 times world champ to give it up when he's in the last race of the season with a half a chance of winning again - team orders? they're racers man - he should've shutup and let them get on with it - i.e. what racing is supposed to be about
But from Mercs point of view they they invest millions to win, and they don't care which of their drivers wins as long as they win. Hamilton was putting the race win at risk, hence, the call to hurry up.
Hamilton did exactly what a true racer would do.... If anything he should have slowed up even more !
The real issue is Hamilton being ungracious and Grumpy in defeat !
Exactly.
Hamilton was putting the race win at risk, hence, the call to hurry up.
Was he?
Backing up put NR's position at risk, not the race winner. MB were always going to win the race and the championship. LH did the only thing he could to try and win.
Hamilton was putting the race win at risk, hence, the call to hurry up.
He did, speed up, at all the overtaking spots and crawled around the twisties, he even told Paddy Lowe, so he must've been in control and the win not have been at risk. As the result showed.
Well Mercs own race modelling had Vettel as possible winner, so yeah Hamilton could have put the race at risk. Vettel himself said he didn't want to get involved in the Championship battle and so would only overtake both or neither.
The real issue is Hamilton being ungracious and Grumpy in defeat !
+1
If Mercedes don't want this sort of situation they should have a clear No1 (like Ferrari used to) and not pretend drivers are free to race
[quote=Daffy ]Hamilton didn't lose the Championship because of a single failure, he lost it because of his poor starts at the beginning of the season.
That's a fundamentally incorrect statement - he did lose the Championship because of a single mechanical failure. Not only that, but there were several instances of a single mechanical failure costing him the championship. He might have still won despite all those mechanicals if he'd not had those poor starts, but those things aren't exclusive - he'd have still won despite the poor starts if he hadn't had those mechanicals.
Lewis lost the Championship and Nico deservedly won.
Only if you think LH deserved the poor reliability.
Yes, the mechanical hurt Lewis, just like it hurt Nico in 2014
er, in 2014 they both had 2 retirements due to mechanical failure - oh and of course LH also had one due to being hit by Britney.
[quote=jimw ]aracer, I am not a fan of Nico in the way you seem to think
In which case you're going to have to explain why you reckon "the right guy won the championship today"
For the record I'm not even a LH fan - my boy just retired today.
In which case you're going to have to explain why you reckon "the right guy won the championship today"
If could just leap in here. He scored more points, that makes him the right guy.
Vettel himself said he didn't want to get involved in the Championship battle and so would only overtake both or neither.
Where did he say that? I can't find it.
[quote=slowoldman ]If could just leap in here. He scored more points, that makes him the right guy.
So it was a tautology? 😕
What was?
From BBC
"It was a tricky situation at the end with Lewis playing dirty tricks," Vettel said to his team as they congratulated him over the radio."It was tough out there. I didn't want to be an issue. But at the end I was thinking maybe to try to pass both of them but it didn't work out."
Ah, interesting. Well if he really meant he would only want to overtake both not just one, then that shows a remarkably sporting side of his nature.
merc deserved it
As for the drivers.....????
Pity the champs were a one car event, Vettel, Button, Alonso, etc merely making up numbers. I am genuinely amazed at how in such a competitive environment, one team can be so dominant.
Slowman - of course if he'd demoted Rosberg there was a chance Hamilton would join him on 4 championships - enlightened self interest?
(And Vettel is one of my favourite drivers)
Pity the champs were a one car event, Vettel, Button, Alonso, etc merely making up numbers. I am genuinely amazed at how in such a competitive environment, one team can be so dominant.
Lack of in season testing, engine upgrade tokens and the like does not help.
well done Nico, Hopefully Ferrari and Red Bull will be back to normal next season and we might see some racing...
I am genuinely amazed at how in such a competitive environment, one team can be so dominant.
Are you new to F1? 😆 (check out the 1988 season.)
Are you new to F1? (check out the 1988 season.)
And the 1992 season and a 2 or 3 the of the Schumi/ Ferrari years.
The big thing for Mercedes though is the fact their power unit was/still is to extent so far ahead in terms of design the other teams couldn't catch up. Their design was fundamentally different and not something the other teams could replicate without a total redesign.
It is highly usual for a team to come up with something the other teams simply cannot replicate in some form.
I wonder if Rosberg will have No.1 on his car next year, or keep 6?
Not new no, merely largely disinterested barr the first corner.
The sport largely passes me buy. More of a general question about how so many bright people can allow one team to be so dominant at any one time.
More of a general question about how so many bright people can allow one team to be so dominant at any one time.
The many bright people in the other teams probably could have caught the Mercedes engine up. But the rules over the last 3 years have only allowed a small number of engine modifications each season. A complete overhaul wasn't allowed. So if you started with a rubbish engine you were kind of stuck with it!
From next season this rule has been dropped and the engine manufacturers can develop as much as they like.
I wonder if Rosberg will have No.1 on his car next year, or keep 6?
He said he was undecided.
I think Rosberg winning wasn't the worst thing for F1. The perception, rightly or wrongly, when a single driver wins everything for years on end is that things are boring. In the grand scheme of things, an occasional one-time champ is a good thing as it breaks it up a bit. As for whether Lewis was robbed because of mechanicals, that's racing; you take best advantage of the cards you're dealt. Whilst Massa today is a pretty smooth driver, it's fairly certain that had Massa not been a bit wild in 2008 Hamilton wouldn't have had the championship that year as Massa threw away points finishes in at least 4 races with crashes and spins.
I don't know how you decide who deserves to win the F1 title; lots of the drivers are supremely talented but don't have the machinery to show their class. Ocon and Wehrlein (particularly the latter) have great pedigree and "deserve" a better car and a shot at winning but that's not how life works. Lewis' lack of "sportsmanship" inside/outside the car is something that has been part of his entire career (I saw him in FRS practice in 2003 displaying this so it's hardly new) but it's part of who he is, Mercedes know this so none of this should have been a shock.
The driver who won didn't cheat his way to the title (not saying Lewis did/would before anyone gets chippy) so you have to say he deserved it one way or another.
I watched the season finale yesterday, the first time I've watched a race in months. I can't say that I'm disappointed to see Rosberg champion, he drove a measured race doing exactly what he needed to do. I did have to chuckle at his voice over the radio once he crossed the finish line, he sounded an awful lot like a Dalek.
We're supposedly getting faster, wider and louder cars next year. Perhaps we'll see McLaren Honda and Renault climbing up the grid too?
I'm a Lewis Hamilton fan and conversely I haven't been all that impressed by Nico Rosberg's antics in the car over the last few seasons trying to come to terms with being the lesser driver.
BUT
I keep asking myself what if Lewis' tactics had worked yesterday and supposing Vettel and Verstappen had passed Rosberg? Worse still Verstappen could have taken out Rosberg trying to get past. I don't think Lewis would have covered himself in glory in that situation and I would rather he lost the championship as he did rather than won it under dubious circumstances.
All in all I think Rosberg deserved the win even though I think Hamilton is the better driver. Luck plays as much part as skill when deciding who wins and who loses at this level.
I don't really have a problem with Lewis' antics during the race.
He's a racer he's trying to win. He didn't do anything dangerous. Nico could have passed him if he thought he was driving slowly!
But Hamilton's antics in the drivers room were a but much. FFS shake your team mates hand, it just looked petty and indignant. You might believe you are the better driver and that mechanicals robbed you of a world championship but there is still should be room for sportsmanship and courtesy, he's raced with Nico since he was a teenager.
I wonder if Rosberg will have No.1 on his car next year, or keep 6?
Yes been reading this. IMO I think not taking the 1 is somewhat distrespectful to the sport so it's my feeling he will take it. He won the Championship with 6 on the car, that's the nod to his father.
Hamilton isn't a team player. If you believe F1 is a team sport he should go. However his behavious isn't new amd Mercedes signed him amd renewed his contract so they are as guilty as him.
As far as I know you are not allowed to have team orders in F1 these days, the drivers must "race"
I doubt Lewis would be in this position if he'd concentrated on f1 alone and gave the showbiz lifestyle a rest.
I doubt Lewis would be in this position if he'd concentrated on f1 alone and gave the showbiz lifestyle a rest.
I guess it's one of those things that we'll never know.
jambalaya - MemberHamilton isn't a team player. If you believe F1 is a team sport he should go. However his behavious isn't new amd Mercedes signed him amd renewed his contract so they are as guilty as him.
As far as I know you are not allowed to have team orders in F1 these days, the drivers must "race"
Considering that Rosberg has taken out one or both Mercedes drivers with his behaviour over the last few seasons and had no sanction from Mercedes, I think punishing Hamilton in any way would show how they favour Rosberg. Especially Nikki Lauda who just makes me puke, he's the shit-stirring stick that Mercedes need to get shot of.
As far as I know you are not allowed to have team orders in F1 these days, the drivers must "race"
Team orders are allowed now.
I doubt Lewis would be in this position if he'd concentrated on f1 alone and gave the showbiz lifestyle a rest.
Earlier in the season even Nico commented that he has never seen Lewis as focused as he was this year.
Re the 'for the team' thing - let's see how Red Bull deal with this next year if they have a leading car. Max and Daniel are sure to provide some fireworks!
And how many multiple world champions worked solely for the good of the team? Even "Mr Averages" Prost got himself sacked from Ferrari! 😀
Lewis wasn't focussed for 7 races in a row (although some of those were last season). Nico's definitely had the better mental coach for the season as a whole. If Lewis raced those 7 races like he raced the last 4 or so, he'd have thrashed Nico.
Nico definitely favoured. Not to the extent of nobbling Lewis' car, but he's definitely favoured. German driver in a German team (even if UK based), winning the double has always been the goal since Schuey came back.
I can see Lewis racing in different colours in 2018 (need to double check when his contract is up, and Kimi's), and probably beating Nico in an inferior car.
Would pop a tenner on Max beating Rosberg next year, but will wait until the winter testing for that.
[quote=atlaz ]I think Rosberg winning wasn't the worst thing for F1.
Can't really argue with that - it's made it more interesting than it would have been if LH's reliability had been just as good and he'd romped away with it.
But:
[quote=forzafkawi ]Considering that Rosberg has taken out one or both Mercedes drivers with his behaviour over the last few seasons and had no sanction from Mercedes, I think punishing Hamilton in any way would show how they favour Rosberg. Especially Nikki Lauda who just makes me puke, he's the shit-stirring stick that Mercedes need to get shot of.
this - I think you'll find that every instance of a coming together between the two Mercs was largely Britney's fault - let's include for example the incident in Spain, where if Britney had obeyed the rules about holding your line on a straight LH would be WDC. LH has also proved his ability to stay in front in a slower car time and again, so I doubt he was in any danger at all of failing to win.
I can see Lewis racing in different colours in 2018 (need to double check when his contract is up, and Kimi's), and probably beating Nico in an inferior car.
It'd be good to see Hamilton racing against Nico without the team giving instruction.
'Please team ask Lewis to move over and let me thtough' (said one man to his title contender in the decider).
Cringe worthy stuff.
I can see Lewis racing in different colours in 2018 (need to double check when his contract is up, and Kimi's)
Well his Mum was standing with the Ferrari team at the podium.
[quote=andytherocketeer ]I can see Lewis racing in different colours in 2018 (need to double check when his contract is up, and Kimi's), and probably beating Nico in an inferior car.
Are you thinking he would go to Ferrari then?
No doubt most drivers would love to go there for the prestige, but can't imagine they'd ever have two #1 drivers...
Vettel and Hamilton as teammates would be interesting, although I can't see either of them wanting that to happen. My money would be on Vettel over the course of a season.
I see what I consider to be gaping character flaws from Hamilton on a far too regular basis - and am frankly amazed that people are so willing to overlook them on what I assume is the strength of him being a Brit whom happens to be good at something.
For me its personality/character over Nationality every time.
Given equal machinery what do you think the F1 championship standing would look like?
(In other words rank the drivers on the grid)
Its a difficult one.
In my opinion there are 5 drivers on the grid with stand out talent:
Alonso
Vettel
Hamilton
Ricciardo
Verstappen
Talented Journeymen who can win races in the right circumstances
Rosberg
Button
Bottas
Massa
Hulkenberg
Perez
Grosjean
New Talent who probably deserve a better drive
Sainz
Ocon
Wehrlien
Palmer
Magnussen
Nasr
Making up the numbers:
Ericsson
Guitierrez
Kyvyat
what his face in the second Manor
So no idea who would win in equal machinery. Its a silly game anyway as F1 is NOT about the cars being equal!
Senna had character flaws, Schumacher did, Vettel has, Kimi has - can't think of a driver who hasn't. And Mr Kvyat has them by the bucketload!
I think most people ignore them in Lewis as he's unquestionably one of the best racers out there.
Personality/Character doesn't win races.
I'm not a huge fan of his social life, but I admire his racing in the same way I admired Mansells - he just won't give up.
We are missing a huge point here.F1 is just so dull at the moment, we need more racers like Max. Considering he drove from the back of the grid to 4th shows amazing talent in a so-so car.
Let's hope RBR can give home something competitive next year.