[Closed] F1 2016 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

I can't see DR playing second fiddle to SV at Ferrari he'd want to be No1

Exactly. He'd be hired as an equal. SV would have to either beat him or accept being number 2. Either way, Ferrari would be better off than retaining KR. Not saying that's going to happen, just that Red Bull might be worried about losing DR and wanting to make sure that JV is prepared to lead the team next year.

JV

Apparently Jos is no longer the boss. He's stepped down from managing Max, as he's "now where he should br"

well that was an exciting start

toys out the car

I am sure they will shake and make friends

Probably get away with a racing incident but he drove him off the track IMHO as that was not the natural racing line.

Well that was short and sweet.

Hehe - first GP I've watched this season.

Ooooops!

No where near the racing line. Squeezed him off.

Lauder disagrees...

[quote=zokes ]Lauder disagrees...

Niki Lauda, non-executive chairman of Mercedes, blames Lewis Hamilton for the incident that wiped the Brit and team-mate Nico Rosberg out of the Spanish Grand Prix.

"It is stupid, we could've won this race," Lauda tells BBC Radio 5 live. "Lewis is too aggressive. I need to talk to them and hear their explanation and then we will see what happens."

Only lewis' on board is going to show where he was in relation to Rosberg. Unfortunately I don't think he was [i]quite[/i] there

Lewis' fault for me - squeezed or not, he could see the direction Rosberg was going, he should've backed out.

Why was Nico on that bit of tarmac?

"too aggressive" = trying to overtake on a straight

Hamilton to Ferrari next year

Blah blah blah Karun, "yeah guys......"

Everytime yeah guys. Aaaarggggg

How do you overtake without being aggressive just out of interest?

Ask him nicely ?

How do you overtake without being aggressive just out of interest?

Wait for team orders?

I guess it depends upon at what point Rosberg moved towards the side vs where Lewis' front wing was. If rosberg was already drifting slightly then Lewis should have pulled out. If he was already alongside, even only a corner of his front wing, then Rosberg needs to be reminded of "mirror-signal-manoeuvre"

Rosberg's fault. Nowhere near the racing line (which you are allowed to defend), Rosberg was purely trying to put Hamilton on the grass.

Wait for team orders?

I think Lewis commits to that line

Rosberg sees it and moves over and then they hit- I assume lewis thinks he will leave space and by the time he realises he wont its too late to do anything.

Rosberg changes direction and does not leave space for a car.
I dont know the rules tbh as I rarely watch but it seems to me that Rosebergs move - assuming you want overtaking- is the dangerous bit

Rosberg was purely trying to put Hamilton on the grass.

I think he succeeded

Hamilton had much more momentum. Was definitely making ground.

He had so much more momentum I was wondering if Nico had missed a gear change (or deliberately lifted?)

ahhh. Rosberg uses all his boost off the line, runs out and slows up, Hamilton takes to grass to avoid ramming him up the arse...

racing incident.

I think Nico messed up and lost a lot of speed and then the move was utter desperation combined with a lack of maturity he often shows. Tempting to say why didn't Hamilton back off or switch back to the left but he was gaining far to fast, faster than would normally be expected from just a simple bit of difference from being a bit faster round a bend, and already very committed.

Rosberg should have conceded the place as he messed up, better to lose one place and live to fight back than screw up your race, let alone yours and that of your team mate.

Glad it's changed back to a precession means I've enjoyed a nap

openly glad to troll

Or, you could just do something more worthwhile with your life 💡

I'm not sure if they had not hit each other that Hamilton would have made the corner at that speed. At the very least he would have been very wide IMHO. I think the red mist descended after getting passed at the start.

n to watch him crash out, thought I'd express my delight on a public forum

You should get a hobby

brilliant!!

fairy tale for Verstappen

Great drive by by Max!!!!

I thought (and I might be wrong) that you weren't allowed to leave no room, thought you had to leave a car's width? Lewis was committed, he had to have a go, that could have been the win.

Now there's something I can celebrate with you, Joss the Boss PtII coming good already! Well done that lad

slimjim78 - Member

My hobbie is delighting in that chumps misery.

I presume you mean hobby, and I presume you mean the 3 times F1 WDC with a net worth of around £300 million "chump"

I'm not the worlds greatest Hamilton fan but I'm pretty sure he didn't get a drive in F1 for the money he brought in?

Oh and Go Max 😀

He could win 10 titles and a hundred Grand Prix, he will always be a complete chump in the eyes of anyone that considers personality as part of a persons 'great' appeal.

he will always be a complete chump in the eyes of anyone that considers personality as part of a persons 'great' appeal.

Good job you're not judged by the same high standards then, eh? 😆

😀

Great driver but a bit of a dick

I could be describing any number of drivers over the last 20 years.

Oh but my standards aren't high - this the thing.

It's true though JY, many drivers have been bobbers over the years. Some brought humour or drama into the mix though. Hammo just brings 'bling', and that 'accent'. Sorest loser I ever did see too. But, that's what makes him 'great' though eh?

Good losers are still losers. Anyone who is really competitive can say the right thing but still hates being beaten. Just look at vettels reactions in the last 3 races to having someone dare to make a move to pass him.

For me that's Hamilton's fault. Rosbergs car is heading, or at least pointing towards, the right hand side of the track before Hamilton pulled out from behind him. Hamilton was taking the previous corner wide, so maybe Rosberg saw this in his mirrors, or maybe he just anticipated Hamilton going right? Either way, he's going that way before LH moves right, so to me that was Hamilton going for a gap that was already closing or certainly about to close. Without the benefit of the telemetry of course.

How do you overtake without being aggressive just out of interest?

Lauda seems to be of the view that it was Hamiltons fault. Madness from a team perspective

All those shouting about F1 being boring & there being no overtaking over the last few years are probably the same criticising LH for attempting to over take. Thank goodness for drivers like him actually giving it a go. I also think you'll be siding with SV & having a moan at the audacity of DR for trying to over take too, the cheek of the man, how dare he! Does he think it's a race or something?

As for the incident NR leaves a Merc sized gap for a much faster LH who takes advantage, NR sees his mistake, panics & shuts the door too late, once on the grass LH is a passenger

well done mad max..super drive but tbh he was in a much improved red bull. Vettel had the luck when Ricciardo got the puncture.
The question is if Hamilton could have avoided the crash after being pushed onto the grass? He did run into Rosbergs car.

If there isnt the space do you keep your foot in and risk a crash or take another action? There are plenty of cases of the driver taking the other option to keep running ( running wide and the bleating on the radio).
This is another case of someone not yielding to Hamilton and we have seen before what the net result has been. See Button and Hamilton 2011 Montreal as another example, also see hamilton massa 2011, Rosberg Hamilton 2015

The next question is should he have been pushed there? Maybe, it is aggressive but as in other cases drivers have been equally as aggressive on track and even weaving in braking zones. Next thing people will want Maldonado to come back to spice things up with his overtaking 😉

I expect pressure for Rosberg to be penalised to close up the championship to appease the conspiracists.
They've been let off with a racing incident 🙂

Kvyat must thinking of what could' ve been.... and Sainz must be fancying a change at the RBR team

PrinceJohn - Member
Glad it's changed back to a precession

Procession !

 

No action from the stewards according to the BBC text feed.

Jennie Gow noted that ROS was in the wrong engine mode at the time, maybe why the deployment cut and slowed his acceleration out of T3. ROS's mood very different to HAM's, make of that what you will.

@milky - not clear enough for stewards to make a call between two cars of the same team ? Or maybe they just can't be bothered to get involved

...to me that was Hamilton going for a gap that was already closing or certainly about to close...

That is two very different things. The former requires Hamilton to see it, the latter requires Hamilton to have ESP!

You can't just close the door after the fact because you've left a car-sized amount of room and now there is a car in it, that is called "causing a collision". Rosberg got away lightly, the racing line was his but Hamilton chose another route and Rosberg ran him onto the grass in a last ditch attempt to keep his position.

"Too aggressive" (regarding Hamilton)? It's called racing, not following!

No details as yet, they're probably happy to let the team sort it out themselves if it wasn't clear one way or the other.

Personally think ROS was too vicious swinging left, the full width of the track smacks of desperation when he knew he was slow off T3. HAM took a gamble going left and it backfired. I expect them both to behave in Monaco or full-on fireworks 😆

Jennie Gow noted that ROS was in the wrong engine mode at the time...

Which as good as confirms it was Rosberg's fault!

Too slow/under-powered/wrong gear, he was in no position to defend and took Hamilton out.

The stewards’ statement in full:

The incident concerned started when Car 6 dropped into an incorrect power mode, as set by the driver prior to the start. This created a significant power differential between Car 6 and Car 44 at the exit of Turn 3 coming onto the straight, resulting in as much as a 17kph speed difference between the two cars on the straight. Car 6 moved to the right to defend his position, as is his right under Art 27.7 of the Sporting regulations. Simultaneously Car 44 as the significantly faster car with, at that time, apparent space on the inside, moved to make the pass. Art 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a "significant portion" of the car attempting to pass alongside. Car 44 had a portion of his front wing inside Car 6 small fractions of a second prior to Car 44 having to leave the right side of the track to avoid an initial collision, which may have led him to believe he had the right to space on the right. Once on the grass on the side of the track Car 44 was no longer in control of the situation.

Having heard extensively from both drivers and from the team, the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the maneuver that he did and that Car 44’s attempt to overtake was reasonable, and that the convergence of events led neither driver to be wholly or predominantly at fault, and therefore take no further action.

[url= https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/headlines/2016/5/mercedes-drivers-split-over-racing-incident.html ]https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/headlines/2016/5/mercedes-drivers-split-over-racing-incident.html[/url]

Whatever engine mode it was, it got him to T1 first.

Whatever engine mode it was, it got him to T1 first.

Maybe because it used more energy from the battery off the start, meaning less available when NR reached turn 3.

Too slow/under-powered/wrong gear, he was in no position to defend and took Hamilton out.

Ham is miles back so out of the Championship

we're only at race 5 out of 21...Bit early to announce he's out of the championship 😆

F1 is disappearing up it's own exhaust pipe and drowning in it's own bulls**t!

Kvyat must thinking of what could' ve been.... and Sainz must be fancying a change at the RBR team

Kvyat couldn't have won that race, that's why he was demoted. Good but not special.

@nickc 😳

In my very lame defence it feels like its been going longer than that

I've been watching F1 since the early 60s and I'm a bit annoyed by the "good manners" rules that these days hamstring drivers and prevent hard, close racing. This was a racing incident. They'll get over it.

Hamilton could have avoided the crash after being pushed onto the grass? He did run into Rosbergs car.

Er... He was sideways when he hit Rosberg after losing it upon being forced onto the grass.

[img] [/img]

OK let's have some facts

Simultaneously Car 44 as the significantly faster car with, at that time, apparent space on the inside, moved to make the pass. Art 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a "significant portion" of the car attempting to pass alongside. Car 44 had a portion of his front wing inside Car 6 small fractions of a second prior to Car 44 having to leave the right side of the track to avoid an initial collision, which may have led him to believe he had the right to space on the right

That's the statement from the stewards they confirm Lewis was along side.

Hang on stewards report is that all that artical 27.7 says ?

This is rule 27.7

27.7 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full
width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting
to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track
without justifiable reason.
[u]For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is
alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’.[/u]

This picture clearly shows Lewis had enough room for the pass and was along side.

[URL= http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v192/twitchell/IMG-20160515-WA0016_zpsin32omd7.jpe g" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v192/twitchell/IMG-20160515-WA0016_zpsin32omd7.jpe g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Nico should have left room and there should have been a penalty, the stewards clearly chose to let it be dealt with in house imo

That is a still picture tho, and nico had been moving to the right long before that was taken, it's not as if he waited till Lewis was alongside before drifting right.

50/50 in my opinion - optimistic of Lewis, overly forceful by Nico.

Racing incident. Shit happens.

When in doubt ask Senna - he knew a thing or two about racing...

[img] [/img]

This picture clearly shows Lewis had enough room for the pass and was along side.

This picture clearly shows Lewis alongside... and pointing entirely at the grass!

When in doubt ask Senna - he knew a thing or two about racing...

And about driving into people when they didn't get out of his way...

Very poor driving from Nico, wrong mode, sitting duck and an aggressive block a fraction too late to round it off. Ruined the chance of a race and no penalty 😯

Crashtor would have been slaughtered for such incompetence.

Racing incident.

+1

Anthony Davidsons analysis of the incident is the best for me.

@ theocb Since when has choosing the wrong mode become an offence? Yes it was an aggressive block, but I'm pretty sure Nico didn't intend to take them both out, he simply fractionally misjudged the closing speed. Racing incident.

This picture clearly shows Lewis alongside... and pointing entirely at the grass!

Since when has choosing the wrong mode become an offence?

Dragon. The issue I have, is that Nico knew he was in the wrong setting and he knew he was a sitting duck, his only option at that point was to go for an aggressive block.. he then ballsed that up by leaving a gap.

Fractions are what racing is all about, Nico made some mistakes and ruined a race imo, every driver on the grid would go for that type of move with that type of speed difference and so they should, it happens in every race and lead cars have to yield when they balls up (or get the block in early.) Nico did neither.
Decision made anyway, just surprised no penalty for mistakes from Nico. I don't think anyone else made any mistakes for it to be classed as a racing incident.

Nico was moving right before Lewis got alongside. Lewis decided to keep going anyway.
Racing incident. Both drivers did the right thing. Both hoped the other would back out of their move.

I would want them both to be equally aggressive the next time. It's racing.

Regardless.... LH did not get unequivocal backing from the team. That relationship has now broken down and he'll not be racing with them next year. Expect him to sew up his 2017 contract in the next few weeks and to spend the rest of this year having a bit if a rest. I can't see him supporting their Constructors Championship efforts if he's not going to be there. Or maybe he'll just do whatever he can to frustrate Rosberg

I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Nico moved and Lewis "decided" to keep going, as though there was time to MAKE a decision. I think they had a big speed discrepancy and both committed to the same bit of tarmac at the same time - Nico's was, I thought, the naughtier of the two moves, but not by so much that he deserved censure.

There's a clip shown from above. Nico is not anywhere the racing line. He was slow knew it and desperate to block Hamilton who would have struggled with his line un the next corner.

Scotroutes, Lewis is in contract until the end of 2018, can't see this incident changing much at this stage.

Has Nico [i]ever[/i] beaten Lewis in a fair fight without resorting to dirty tactics?