Forum menu
What's wrong with the FT? Found to be the least partisan UK news source by independent research.
Just read the post, I think it's clear enough without repeating. Who did the "independant research", an anglo-saxon, neo-liberal?
To appreciate the FT you have to be a part of their mindset, you have to think the political, social and economic status quo is ace. You have turn a blind eye to the divisions in society and the misery they create for so many.
News papers write for their owners and audience. If you aren't an owner or a member of their target audience you might find what they write somewhat biased.
Edit: I'll give you an example, I think that one of the few great things about Brexit is that the city hasn't been given a financial passport. I consider that the city which is much loved by the FT is complicit in dirty financial dealings. It is amoral and serves dangerous interests. The financial services it provides whilst purporting to be legal exploit laws in dodgy places to circumvent European laws providing an opacity that benefits the very rich and criminal. So I'm very happy to see Europe being cut off from teh city while the FT laments it.
What’s wrong with the FT?
Edukator doesn't like it apparently.
Edukator doesn’t like it apparently.
No better recommendation than that.
No better recommendation than that.
Made me laugh!
I don't. 🙂 If you thought about who and what it represents you might like it a little less too. The only paper this household subscribes to is Bund Magazin, but I've never ever quoted it on STW, it's so obviously green biased, just as the FT is biased to the other extreme.
Edit: I’ll give you an example, I think that one of the few great things about Brexit is that the city hasn’t been given a financial passport. I consider that the city which is much loved by the FT is complicit in dirty financial dealings. It is amoral and serves dangerous interests. The financial services it provides whilst purporting to be legal exploit laws in dodgy places to circumvent European laws providing an opacity that benefits the very rich and criminal. So I’m very happy to see Europe being cut off from teh city while the FT laments it.
What has your dislike of the City of London got to do with EU Vaccine suspensions?
What’s wrong with the FT? Found to be the least partisan UK news source by independent research.
It's no more bias than any French media I see.
Even if you don't like the FT, given that the Covax program is pretty much based around the AZ vaccine, then the behaviour of the EU (France & Germany esp as they have lots of ex colonies in Africa) is pretty damning.
First they complain about it's efficiency and Merkel publically refuses it, then they change their minds. Then they say it's unsade, then they change their minds. Then they claim the UK isn't giving them enough, whilst they have 10,000s of unused doses because they can't make up their minds about using it. If it wasn't for the fact that people are dying for not having a vaccine (their own citizens) it would make a great Ealing comedy. Oh and the fact that every time they publicly slate the vaccine it makes front page news across their ex-colonies who will only get AZ via Covax, helping spread rumours and distrust.
It is pretty pathetic.
It's interesting that we (people in the UK, especially the press) are happy to refer to mistakes made by member countries as being "EU mistakes"... along with the mistakes that are actually made at the EU level. It all comes down to "EU is bad", whether the problems are at the national level or EU level. Especially if it's a French or German EU politician or organisation. Take the delay... the EMA say not to pause AZ vaccine roll out... member state bodies decide to pause AZ vaccine use... and the story is that it is the EU being over cautious, not the sovereign member states acting with the autonomy that we like to pretend they don't have.
You keep linking the FT with stuff about Europe that is patently bollocks and then asked what I don't like about the FT so I told you.
That's how we got here, you've linked four FT articles in the 24 hours that are clearly anti-European.
Even the Guardian has an anti-Europea sub agenda. They claim to be pro EU but their selection of European stories to report could be summed up as lets take the piss out of Europe just for kicks. It all part of buliding anti-European feeling.
Ask yourself a simple question on the vaccine issue, which country in continental Europe has the highest level of vaccination and has lied or distorted information to justify what is a very selfish approach?
All of the jsutifications for the UK getting more vaccines can be countered:
The UK financed the research - so did Europe
The UK signed first - no it didn't
But the Uk had a pre-agreement - so did the EU, it provided funding remember
The EU contract was on a best effort basis - so was the Uk contract
It's a propaganda war and the FT is very much a part of it.
As with any war there will be casualties, unfortunately fall out of bad will is likely to be the humble British citizen and small British businesses.
As a dual national I find the whole Brexit, NI, vaccine conflict (because it's increasingly conflictual) unnecessary and damaging. People will suffer, not those who own the TF and the rest of the country, you the little people, even Mefty. 😉 I could write pages about how th edamge being done will affect you, there's already plenty by various contribuotrs on other threads.
I'll leave this thread with suggestion. There are always two sides, try to see it from the other side's point of view. Put yourself in the shoes of the French, the Germans, the Irish, the protestants, the catholics... .
The Germans could have done what the UK has done, Biontech is German, but they've played the European solidarity card. Every European country gets the vaccines in proportion to its populations and needs. So think how Germany will be viewed when all this is over and how the UK will be viewed. As a part Brit that saddens me.
Ed is correct here. From this side of the channel (and Irish Sea), the FT is seen as far more even handed on international issues then the rest of the UK press... and they probably are... but that is a very low hurdle to get over. They still suffer from UK bias and hypocrisy when it comes to the rest of Europe. Just less so than many other outlets.
The UK financed the research – so did Europe
The UK signed first – no it didn’t
But the Uk had a pre-agreement – so did the EU, it provided funding remember
The EU contract was on a best effort basis – so was the Uk contract
Are you not swallowing the EU propaganda, if the EU had a material case AZ would be in court right now.
Every European country gets the vaccines in proportion to its populations and needs.
Let's start with its the EU not Europe, next the distribution isn't working that way and non EU vaccines are being used in EU countries because of the shortfalls
Any idea that the EU commission and countries are not engaged in their own propaganda to get out of their political issues is deluded
The FT is an international paper headquartered in the UK, 70% of its subscribers are outside the UK it has been printing international editions for years, more than 40 in the case of the Frankfurt printing operation and it is owned by the Japanese.
They still suffer from UK bias and hypocrisy when it comes to the rest of Europe.
Name the newspaper that doesn't have a national bias and hypocrisy
The FT is an international paper
Yes it is. And, as I said, is seen here as far more even handed when reporting international stories than anything else published in the UK.
But also…
They still suffer from UK bias and hypocrisy when it comes to the rest of Europe.
But it also true that it is impossible to…
Name the newspaper that doesn’t have a national bias and hypocrisy
The UK financed the research – so did Europe
The UK signed first – no it didn’t
But the Uk had a pre-agreement – so did the EU, it provided funding remember
The EU contract was on a best effort basis – so was the Uk contract
I'd be interested to read the sources of these claims - I have been google'ing around and not really found any support, e.g. this article has a different take:
https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/
Do you have a reference for an EU funding as early as May 2020, bearing in mind tha the EU vaccine strategy was not presented until June??
Do you have a reference for an EU funding as early as May 2020, bearing in mind tha the EU vaccine strategy was not presented until June??
You can try going direct to EU news providers and searching from within those sites which is what I tried to do.
I didn't find those references admittedly. In either German/Italian/French/Spanish news sites.
You can try going direct to EU news providers and searching from within those sites which is what I tried to do.
I didn’t find those references admittedly. In either German/Italian/French/Spanish news sites.
Indeed - so do we conclude that there are none, or that our google fu is weak? 🙂 Easiest thing is if Edu just provides the sauce.
I think we've had enough of Ed's sauce.
Indeed – so do we conclude that there are none, or that our google fu is weak? 🙂 Easiest thing is if Edu just provides the sauce.
Quite
Although I do appreciate a different perspective, that perspective doesn't count for anything without evidence particularly from someone always keen to criticize.
And for context, I voted remain, I've already voted for the break up of the UK and hope to so so again, and in a few months I'll vote for a party that pretty much exists in order to achieve that break up. I'd also vote after that happened and presented with the opportunity to rejoin the EU.
I'm not really a UK fanboi
"I saw this on the TV" doesn't really cut it.
If we do get links, they will genuinely be appreciated.
Do you have a reference for an EU funding
Member countries provided funding. Most notably Germany, that funded the first vaccine we started rolling out here in the UK:
Even the Guardian has an anti-Europea sub agenda. They claim to be pro EU but their selection of European stories to report could be summed up as lets take the piss out of Europe just for kicks. It all part of buliding anti-European feeling.
What complete and utter twoddle.
Have you ever actually read the Guardian? It doesn't sound like it. It spends its entire time bemoaning the stupidity of Brexit and gazing longingly across the channel.
Member countries provided funding. Most notably Germany, that funded the first vaccine we started rolling out here in the UK:
I believe the poster was talking about AZ not Pfizer?
Member countries provided funding. Most notably Germany, that funded the first vaccine we started rolling out here in the UK:
The claim was made about the AZ vaccine, not the Pfizer, Pfizer themselves weren't funded it was Biontech their partner
This poster...?
The Germans could have done what the UK has done, Biontech is German, but they’ve played the European solidarity card.
He was challenging the UK narrative that seems to be almost universally accepted over here...
- only we invested (so did others in Europe, and we benefited from their investment)
- we signed agreements first (not that clear)
The "EU" was slower to respond, especially as regards liability and risk, and other countries may well have rolled out sooner if they had gone it alone, as we did. But the UK was not the only country to pump money into research, and the EU also signed up early for vaccines ahead of their approval for use.
I believe the poster was talking about AZ not Pfizer?
Yep - and EU, not individual member states, though it is perhaps fair to point out that Germany might have a claim to first dibs on the Pfizer doses.
For DrP
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/europe/uk-astrazeneca-vaccine-contract-details-intl/index.html
It's the European stories that the Guardian reports from around Europe and the way they do it that irritate, Binners. I'm convinced they have someone who trawls the pages most people don't get to in European papers for tit bits to make headlines with in the UK. And then they put a reproachful slant on it. It gives the impression that Europeans are sex mad, sex offenders, sexist, mysoginist, corrupt, incomptent... . What they don't publish are the good news European stories.
Well the French has now authorixed the use of the AZ vaccine for only those aged 55 and over, nothing like consistent messaging to help allay anti vax fears.
The differences between the UK and EU AZ contracts are detailed in the link I posted. Also - there is no mention of EU funding AZ research in that article.
Like piemonster, I am no Brexit supporter - the contrary - I'm happy to be wrong, but I haven't seen support for the claims you (Ed) listed.
The EU didn't fund any research. Germany funded the only other vaccine now in widespread use here. Other vaccine developments were funded by member states and haven't paid off yet (eg Sanofi/France). I don't think anyone has claimed the EU funded the AZ vaccine, have they?
Because the blood clotting and other strong reactions concern those under 55, Mefty. Seems like good sense to me when there are other vaccines for the Under 55s. It will help with take up with junior health workers who have been massively refusing the AZ vaccine. If they're offered one of the others because they're under 55 you can expect better take up.
You really don't understand the way things work over here, Mefty. Politicians are accountable and held to account. That means they keep their arses clean or wind up in court.
@Kelvin i think were at cross posts somewhere along the line. But I'm too busy trying not to fall asleep in a Teams meeting to fix it 😆
Although DrP has confirmed it was the AZ being referenced so go me!
Politicians are accountable and held to account
Ah yea, how is Sarkozy doing ....
Wed probably give him a Knighthood
You are such a fanboi, so sweet.
I don’t think anyone as claimed the EU funded the AZ vaccine, have they?
Ed:
All of the jsutifications for the UK getting more vaccines can be countered:
The UK financed the research – so did Europe
I understood the discussion was about AZ, and that "Europe" meant "the EU", not "one individual European country".
Ah yea, how is Sarkozy doing
So far a 2-year jail sentence and a court case for illegal party funding that is currently delayed due to a lawyer having Covid.
Accountable.
It gives the impression that Europeans are sex mad, sex offenders, sexist, mysoginist, corrupt, incomptent…
To be honest that reads like standard UK fare about UK citizens
DrJ my long ranty post didn't name AZ, you are making a connection with AZ that isn't there. I talked about "Europe" in relation to "funding" in that post, and EU in realation to other things. I talked about Biontech and Germany.
I know you like me to have said "the EU funded Oxford" but I didn't. Tongue our smiley here.
I was adressing the issue in its globality, it was inteded to be my last contribution to the thread, but as it's being picked apart I'm calrifying.
Some people here are looking at the situation through red, white and blue spectacles, and thankfully some aren't.
Madame drew my attention to this:
The events, "bof", the reporting "WTF", the headline "really" (whilst rolling eyes).
So when you wrote
All of the jsutifications for the UK getting more vaccines can be countered:
The UK financed the research – so did Europe
The UK signed first – no it didn’t
But the Uk had a pre-agreement – so did the EU, it provided funding remember
The EU contract was on a best effort basis – so was the Uk contract
you were actually referring to Pfizer and not AZ?
Yeah, right.
Yeah, right.
And the only source provided was about AZ not Pfizer
I'm another ardent Remoaner who thinks our government are a disgrace and the EU have been largely the only grownups in the room with regard to EU negotiations - but the biggest EU countries are really not covering themselves in glory in this situation, at all.
Macron was desperate to do down the AZ vaccine and made dubious claims about it's efficacy in older groups, then they suspend vaccinations because of conspiracy theories about blood clots that turned out to be completely unfounded. And this in a country that already has strongly vaccine hesitant tendencies - what did he think was going to happen?
Edit: just noticed the hilarious backtracking/shifting the goalposts from Educator. Seriously?
you were actually referring to Pfizer and not AZ?
He was referring to "vaccines". He even mentioned the other one in use in significant numbers in that post you've quoted from.
then they suspend vaccinations because of conspiracy theories about blood clots that turned out to be completely unfounded
They suspended use while it was looked into. Over cautious, but it's been discussed at length why that might be. I think those bodies that halted use got it wrong, and will have put off more people than they will reassure with those measures... but then I haven't lived in any of the countries where they did that (not quite true, but I was an infant)... perhaps it's just possible that the view from within those countries of that move is quite different to the view from the UK, no?