Forum menu
Well the French has now authorixed the use of the AZ vaccine for only those aged 55 and over, nothing like consistent messaging to help allay anti vax fears.
Has Macron apologised for his false claim that it's ineffective for those over 65 then? Or are they just aiming for that 55-65 window? 😆
Poor diddums upset that France couldn't get a vaccine together?
perhaps it’s just possible that the view from within those countries of that move is quite different to the view from the UK, no?
I'm sure it is but they have their own nationalist tendencies/propaganda too. I'm about the least patriotic/nationalistic person there is but I can see when other countries are at it. Show me where anyone was acting on actual medical advice re suspending the vaccinations rather than rumours?
I suggest reading the John Lichfield article I posted on the previous page as a good and balanced starting point.
the reporting “WTF”
That's French journalists for you.
I suggest reading the John Lichfield article I posted on the previous page as a good and balanced starting point.
TL;DR = the English press/media are biased and stupid 😲
I'm not convinced about the not political bit, personally.
you were actually referring to Pfizer and not AZ?
I was refering to four issues. I didn't state which vaccines. If you were familiar with each of the issues you'd have know which vaccine I was most probably refering to, especially if you read further.
And the only source provided was about AZ not Pfizer
And the only company refered to by name was Biontech.
Has Macron apologised for his false claim that it’s ineffective for those over 65 then? Or are they just aiming for that 55-65 window? 😆
Poor diddums upset that France couldn’t get a vaccine together?
I have no idea why you think Macron should apologise he was working on the best advice available at the time. Other nations decided not to use the AZ vaccine on over 65s earlier, Grum. Pragamtism over dogma and the ability to adapt policy as knowledge improves - qualities in my book.
Some of you are coming over as properly provocatively xenophonic with bucketfuls of bad faith to boot. You're getting caught up in an orchestrated nationalistic frenzy which is harming UK relations with its neighbours.
orchestrated nationalistic frenzy which is harming UK relations with its neighbours.
Piffle. Ursula what's its name started it <sticks tongue out>
And the only company refered to by name was Biontech.
😆
I have no idea why you think Macron should apologise he was working on the best advice available at the time.
opposite advice was coming from the EMA
The comments went beyond the science
But UK bashing is OK so carry on
You’re getting caught up in an orchestrated nationalistic frenzy which is harming UK relations with its neighbours.
Where? The shuffling queue in the local vaccination centre didn't seem to be in a nationalistic frenzy. They are even vaccinating EU citizens in them and nobody boos and waves a Union Jack
You’re getting caught up in an orchestrated nationalistic frenzy which is harming UK relations with its neighbours.
That's nothing Ed. They're being reasonably objective and reasonable compared to many people over here at the moment. You're seeing the best, not the worst of it, sadly.
There is no doubt at all vaccine nationalism is at play. Pretty much everyone is at it one way or another if they are in a position to do so.
Sometimes it takes the form of export bans, absurdly high order levels, fending of criticism at home, or using vaccine diplomacy for long term geo strategic gains, having vaccinated virtually your entire population and then not supporting your next door neighbour!
Even countries within the EU have shafted each other over during the pandemic if you go back far enough.
Its shite, no doubt about it. But unless the EU ships all their vaccines to those around the world most in need they are in no place to preach.
Nations, by default look after their own first. That's not the world I want to live in but it is the world I live in.
You’re getting caught up in an orchestrated nationalistic frenzy
Says the man who claims everything about France is perfect. I despise our government and frankly many of its citizens, but in this particular case the French are pretty much as bad.
I agree that anti EU sentiment is being stirred up by those with an agenda, but that doesn't make any criticism of European countries untrue. The Guardian has been staunchly pro EU throughout Brexit but even they have been highly critical - why?
I'm aware of that, Kelvin. My first sentence of the paragraph quoted starts with "Some of you".
There's always been a bit of teasing and banter on here that revolves around nationality. I'm comfortable with that, Kryton57 up there made me smile. However, some of it is clearly intended to be unpleasant.
Madame is Facebook friends with someone who knows someone I knew so he popped up on her friend suggestions. "Do you know so and so?" she asked and I went to have a look. 🙁 I'm seeing the best here and I thank you all whatever the day's debate/mud slinging might be. 🙂
Edit: dear me, Grum. You know that's not true, everybody else does too, so why type it? With respect to Covid I've been critical of the French government's initial advice that mask wearing by the general public was unnecessary, critical of not enforcing mask wearing in primary schools until they did, critical of incoherancies in policy, critical of the behaviour of sections of our communities who should know better... .
I agree that anti EU sentiment is being stirred up by those with an agenda, but that doesn’t make any criticism of European countries untrue. The Guardian has been staunchly pro EU throughout Brexit but even they have been highly critical – why?
The criticism isn't limited to the UK media, its global including within the EU. Same with the UKs catastrophic handling of lockdown and messaging
I was refering to four issues. I didn’t state which vaccines. If you were familiar with each of the issues you’d have know which vaccine I was most probably refering to, especially if you read further.
That's cobblers, and you know it, but I don't feel justified boring everyone by once again posting your claims and pointing out how they make no sense except in the context of AZ. If people are interested (unlikely) they can look at your post and see if your points have any relevance to other vaccines.
Someone being a jambon then?
So having failed to find any evidence of lying that stands up examination you're just making a personal attack, DrJ. It's all in your head. You're inventing stuff I haven't said and then acuse me of lying about it.
I checked the synonyms of "cobblers":
lie
invention
falsehood
untruth
misinformation
fabrication
white lie
half-truth
a tissue of lies
fairy tale
28 more words
a crock (of shit)
a pack of lies
baloney
bluff
BS
bull
bullshit
codswallop
concoction
cover
cover story
disinformation
Elsewhere it looks like Norway, Denmark, Sweden and now Finland are still not using the AZ Vaccine.
I'm not getting into the politics.
Just desperately sad to see the news tonight. Europe having a third wave which should have/ could have been avoided.
Can't be bothered, Ed. If anyone cares (which I doubt) they can look at your claims and see if they stack up.
Good idea, DrJ, credit people with the intelligence to read and understand for themselves without having you ram a distorted version down their throats.
And how should Europe have avoided a third wave, Poopscoop? Maybe Europe should have completely closed its borders with the UK 12 months ago then we wouldn't have been infected with the Kent variant that developped in a country that let the virus rip thus increasing the risk of mutations. Because the third wave is the Kent variant, that much is clear.
Had enough of this toxic anti-Europe stuff now.
Like I said, I'm not getting involved the the arguing/ politics mate.
Just desperately sad to see the news tonight. Europe having a third wave which should have/ could have been avoided.
Dunno how much that could have been avoided tbh: the AZ scepticism is pretty recent and irrelevant to today's statistics. I think we're suffering from the decisions taken before Christmas.
So, Poopscoop, you just drop in and post some provoctive reproaches about European Covid politics and then don't want to argue about it. That's called trolling.
Oh and from what I remember, "mate" to someone you're far from mates with is an insult.
Good idea, DrJ, credit people with the intelligence to read and understand for themselves .
I think people have done exactly that, Ed.
I think we’re suffering from the decisions taken before Christmas.
Decisions made in the UK. The tier system, and a circuit breaker being months late, gave us and spread the Kent variant that’s causing so much trouble across the continent now.
Just desperately sad to see the news tonight. Europe having a third wave which should have/ could have been avoided.
And evidently it’s all the U.K.’s fault.
We gave the E.U a virulent strain and hogged all the vaccines.
Well that’s what some want us to believe, glossing over the fact that the government/Nuffield/Crick/Oxford etc got their act together and quickly with funding plus Ox-Bio offered the E.U a manufacturing facility (identically to the one getting high yields) which was refused.
U.K. invested the almost the same as the E.U and the results are obvious to see.
More dither and delay from the E.U will possibly see it match the U.K.’s abysmal covid stats.
Edukator
Free Member
So, Poopscoop, you just drop in and post some provoctive reproaches about European Covid politics and then don’t want to argue about it. That’s called trolling.Oh and from what I remember, “mate” to someone you’re far from mates with is an insult.
You know what @Edukator. I actually feel a little hurt by that. Nothing i said was trolling, and i used "mate" in a genuinely conciliatory tone. If it came across as trolling I'm honestly sorry.
Thanks for making my day just a little but worse than it was though.
For what it's worth I had you down as one of the many good guys on here. That opinion won't change but I'd prefer your anger pointed in another direction this evening please?
And how should Europe have avoided a third wave, Poopscoop? Maybe Europe should have completely closed its borders with the UK 12 months ago then we wouldn’t have been infected with the Kent variant that developped in a country that let the virus rip thus increasing the risk of mutations. Because the third wave is the Kent variant, that much is clear.
Had enough of this toxic anti-Europe stuff now.
Yet you post toxic anti UK stuff....
The virus is going to mutate and more than once, the Kent variant isn't scaring people half as much as the South African one, the Brazil one may be dangerous but who knows. Add in the fact that similar mutations can occur spontaneously geographic naming doesn't really help anyone
Yet you hope to have friends travel over in the late summer, are you bonkers or just selfish? Any country encouraging foreign tourists is just going to seed more variants at the destination and at home on return. If a population level of vaccinations isn't achieved due to hesitancy then it's going to be sloshing around the world for years with regular jabs trying to keep up with the variants for the willing
Maybe Europe should have completely closed its borders with the UK 12 months ago then we wouldn’t have been infected with the Kent variant that developped in a country that let the virus rip thus increasing the risk of mutations. Because the third wave is the Kent variant, that much is clear.
The so-called British or Kent variant is so-called because the UK is the world leader in sequencing SARS-COV2 genomes and discovered it first. There's no proof it arose from Kent or the UK. It could have arisen in Belgium or France or anywhere else in Europe.
In fact I wish Europe had closed its borders with the UK 12 months ago then UK pandemic tourists in Spain wouldn't have brought back more COVID into the UK during the summer- fact proved by genomic testing that largest % variant in the UK after summer came from Spain
"The so-called British or Kent variant is so-called because the UK is the world leader in sequencing SARS-COV2 genomes and discovered it first."
This...
Just a thought with regards the higher death rate in the UK. UK cities are on average three times the size of those in similarly sized European countries. We are massively more urbanised than Germany, France, Spain or Italy. Given that fact wasnt it inevitable that we'd be hit harder? With the exception of New York and LA provincial UK cities are larger than provincial US cities as well.
The so-called British or Kent variant is so-called because the UK is the world leader in sequencing SARS-COV2 genomes and discovered it first
This isn't true at all, tho we are world leaders in sequencing
The B117 variant has spread through the UK before any other country in Europe , other countries sequence too, just not to our capacity, the surge in cases there now is because it's taken a while to get a foothold there
Population density and things like household occupancy are big factors, but Johnson delaying lockdown at the start and again before xmas meant that we were always going to be hit so hard
(Sweden with lowest household occupancy in Europe, but lax lockdown compared to other Nordic have the death rate to prove this)
SAGE warned in September that we needed to lockdown again, bt instead Yeadon & Gupta were consulted, despite their theories & predictions already being discredited
The inquiry that comes will surely have to focus on that, half UK deaths were over this xmas, which is why we've had to have the strictest lockdown in Europe these last few months
Yes to the above. Both late lockdowns unforgivable.
Look the UK gots lots wrong, especially lockdowns which have taken a huge human and economic toll we will have to live with. Europe generally did better with the lockdowns but not exactly brilliantly, don't forget this started in Europe in the Ski resorts and exploded outwards. The UK somehow got it right on the vaccine front, to be fair all the way through vaccines have been consistently pushed as the answer and we've done a lot better with supply and distribution. Europe (EU) has made an absolute mess of it and have sunk to our governments level of blaming a foreign country for it's short comings. Its sad to see the EU behave thus way, I'd rather hoped the commission was above country level childishness.
As for Ed's continued drivel, the only thing that really matters is speed of vaccination. If the UK or AZ had really done anything wrong there would have been much stronger action taken by the EU.
The UK somehow got it right on the vaccine front
As the article someone linked to earlier says, our government has made a series of gambles on vaccines which have largely paid off, essentially. Mainly because Matt Hancock was moved by the film Contagion 🤪
I'm sure had the gambles not paid off they would have taken full responsibility, just like they have for the NHS' their success 🤣
Eg we decided to concentrate on first doses and delay second doses even though at the time we didn't know if that would be ok as it wasn't tested that way.
Eg we decided to concentrate on first doses and delay second doses even though at the time we didn’t know if that would be ok as it wasn’t tested that way.
We didn't immediately, there was a lot of debate, I don't think they moved on this until the scientific advice said do it.
The way we decided to procure was the initiative, the person who led it got a lot of stick for being a front/wife of someone, but she helped make it work assisted by buckets of our cash
The EU procurement strategy was different, led by a different type of person, it's costing them less and the guarantees are better
Covid is a challenge and the only way to see who got it right is to look back in 10 years time, I doubt any country didn't make a mistake
^ spot on.
Must admit when listening to Kate Bingham she just oozes competence and can do.
Yep time will tell.
The way we decided to procure was the initiative, the person who led it got a lot of stick for being a front/wife of someone, but she helped make it work assisted by buckets of our cash
I don't remember her getting stick as she at least appeared to be well qualified for the role, unlike many of the other people getting on the gravy train.
unlike many of the other people getting on the gravy train.
She could afford to do it for free. I don't doubt there will be future benefits for her, no different to anyone building a career
As for Ed’s continued drivel,
No need to be rude. It’s interesting to have contributions and observations from outside the UK. Looking at all this from different viewports it will look different.
the only thing that really matters is speed of vaccination.
One of the things, not the only thing.
Another thing being done right (especially in the UK, but also in other countries) is the pre-ordering, funding and practical help to build capacity ready for another wave of vaccines this winter and next year, if/when variants demand it.
A bigger consideration in some other countries is ensuring uptake is high enough. Delivering vaccines that the public refuse to take is pointless.
Worldwide, the cost also really matters. We’ll hear more on this in coming months, I’m sure.
No need to be rude. It’s interesting to have contributions and observations from outside the UK. Looking at all this from different viewports it will look different.
I think simultaneously calling everyone else brainwashed nationalists while being fairly nationalistic yourself is kinda rude, but hey ho...
another view from France , and a very rural part ;
I am 46 and got the Astra jab last week . Supply is slow but people who qualify and who want a jab can have it . But some many people dont want it , Astra or other .
Sadly it is all political .
/\/\ and that is an example of how to contribute a different perspective without excess pre-existing bias permeating through
More of that
We have the option of prohibiting a planned export. That is the message to AstraZeneca: You first fulfill your contract with Europe before you start delivering to other countries.
She’s getting a bit feisty.
I wonder if this is going to end up biting the EU on the bum when the Uk has a surplus of capacity which I guess will happen mid-late summer.
At least the developing world might benefit.