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cinnamon_girl
Subscriber
So what was your logic for voting for it?
Also are you still in favour?I had serious concerns about becoming a United States of Europe, the jostling for power that was going on, the gravy train, concern about some of the countries that joined the EU etc. Importantly though I felt it was costing this country far too much money.
As regards whether I’m still in favour, I look at the Tories and think God help us all.
About 2 years ago, on this thread.
If that actually was from two years ago, you scare me. It's my role to keep track of this shit and I couldn't tell you who said what 15 minutes ago.
Yeah. It just stuck in my mind. It was mainly because I'd thought of CG generally being pretty reasonable, but to have voted the way she did, for reasons that amounted to basically giving Cameron a bloody nose, gave me real pause for thought. In what way would voting leave be even registered as a vote of disapproval? I just found it really mystifying tbh.
2) The UK isn’t really ‘ruled’ from Brussels anyway. But in the legislation that does come from Brussels the UK is a major player. We have a lot of influence in the lawmaking. It’s a collective effort – we aren’t submissive. We are working WITH foreign governments, not simply taking.
Very much this.
Right up to the point where the country decided to shoot itself in the foot - again - and send a load of clowns from the Nigel Farage Show, instead of actual MEPs.
"In what way would voting leave be even registered as a vote of disapproval?"
If you're generally dissolusioned with UK politics and a smarmy PM decides to hold a referendum, it's an opportunity to register your dismay.
Not saying I agree with the approach but I understand the distaste of politicians, and the EU needs reform. I voted remain because the leave option was worse than staying.
If you’re generally dissolusioned with UK politics and a smarmy PM decides to hold a referendum, it’s an opportunity to register your dismay.
I kind of see what you are saying but is there anything more smarmy than Farrage?
There was no greater protest vote to stick it to The Man than voting for a banker called Nigel.
Smarmy? Gove? Patel?
Most of both the Leave campaign teams?
At the time of the referendum I heard a few people say they voted leave as some form of protest vote or other, not expecting for a moment that they'd actually win. Whether that was in sufficient numbers to actually affect the result though I've no idea.
Taken as a proportion of the people on this forum it was definitely enough to change the result, Cougar. Over 120 members posted to say which way they'd be voting at the start of this thread. Some of them stated why straight off, for others it became clear later from their later contributions or it was already clear from thier oft expressed views. One person who's posted in the last few day said "won't happen, don't care" then voted out. Another was recently apologetic about not having taken the possibility that Leave might win seriously and voted out as a protest. The justification of a few others fell into the protest vote category. Nationally that would have swung the vote if those people had realised what the consequences of their protest vote would be and changed their minds accordingly.
Del was surprised by CG's vote, I was even more surprised by some others; an NI resident who's quite francophile and politically in tune, someone who voted out because of something about child benefits... .
Most people who I had some idea of their views voted as I'd have expected. The leave voters very much occording to the stereotypes (and many have stopped posting or come back with a new pseudo). Some I was pleasantly surprised (because it pleases me that people are pro EU or at least not anti-EU enough to screw the economy for nearly everybody) and just a few voted leave for odd reasons, but enough to tip the balance when projected nationally.
STW has been the best insight into the dynamics of Brexit I've had when watching from the other side of the Channel because there are both Guardian and Telegraph people here even if it's the Guardian side that's most vocal and far more coherent.
it pleases me that people are pro EU or at least not anti-EU enough to screw the economy for nearly everybody
I think that's rather an on-point statement.
One of the many pro-brexit narratives post-referendum has been "if you love the EU so much..." You don't have to love the EU or even like it, you just have to recognise (and admit) that the alternative is far, far worse.
Even if leaving the EU was beneficial, not unpicking almost half a century of integration very, very carefully indeed is clearly exceptionally dangerous to anyone who's spent more than 8 seconds thinking about it. It's like agreeing to surgically separate Siamese twins with a bandsaw - at best, one of them is going to die.
"Get brexit done" is the latest oversimplification lie in a long history of them. If we "get brexit done" it won't be the end of anything, it will be the start of a very long process.
You don't need to be pro-EU, just not full of "price worth paying" bile and hatred. That is, really, what this entire argument boils down to isn't it.
Oldmanmtb here not logged in since the great password debacle and had to get a new account hence the 2.
I have sat back from most forums for well over a year mainly due to apathy...
So if we are to believe the polls we will have a Tory majority by next week and a brexit withdrawal underway and most likley a hard brexit by this time next year.(hence the grins of Baker, Francois, Mogg etc)
So then the "bill" will be presented for payment - the true cost of this will become the burden of the less well off and the architects of this will profit.
The game is over fellow remainers, we dont even have a forlorn hope.
We need to focus on what follows and how we cope with the new world order, we are going to struggle, poor people are going to have a miserable existence that may last multiple generations or indefinitely. Successive governments will try and "fix" this by deregulation, nationalisation, austerity, debt and none of these will fix it. We can not compete with anyone including the EU as all major economies can simply shut us down by regulation.
So what will the message be on the leave bus in 2030 "well you voted for this?"
I am fortunate and can probably ride the shit storm and my kids all have good sought after degrees so they can move around the world. Anyway see you all in 2021.....
my kids all have good sought after degrees so they can move around the world
If they're lucky. It'll take luck. No-one will have the right to leave the country and move somewhere else.
I’m sure they can whack another couple of years on the retirement age. “ You wanted Brexit, you will have to pay for it”
**** each and every person who voted leave and each and every **** who votes Tory.
* each and every person who voted leave and each and every * who votes Tory.
Hear, hear!
https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1202896184794374144?s=21
https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1202899910879842304?s=21
https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1202901343289192448?s=21
Johnson is a liar when it comes to his form of Brexit (just like everything else). There is a good reason why every single candidate standing to be an MP in NI is against his withdrawal agreement.
Molgrips
If they’re lucky. It’ll take luck. No-one will have the right to leave the country and move somewhere else.
I'm surprised you are pointing that out ... it's one reason I have to hold my nose if I vote for Corbyn's Labour (pending last minute tactical voting)
Perhaps you think that is an acceptable price for true socialism but to me it's as own goal as the UKIP crap just put through my letter box that starts "It's been 79 years since the battle of Britain, fought to defend our nation from a foreign power?"
Presumably I don't need to explain the irony of that .. but the irony of far left countries being the only ones I can think of that prevented their citizens leaving.
Yes, ending FoM, by any party, is removing rights from workers. At least Labour are offering us the chance to vote to keep it. I consider what is on offer from the Tories, without a referendum to accept it, very much along the lines of Communist countries having internal travel documents to stop workers moving, and emigration controls to enslave the population.
The issue I see with the election is that is is an election of unicorns and cats...
By "The cats"... I mean cat's in bags where the obvious cat that will be impossible to put back will be Brexit.... but the Tory's are even busier with their "communist after it failed" controls and removing democracy.... whereas I see this is just somewhere Labour would end up if they have a 2nd Ref and it's leave...
I'm not unsympathetic for example with the SNP.... but I don't think it should be pushed as a condition... and universal suffrage for 16 yr olds is IMHO a mixed bag. (Sounds good now as they will mostly vote the way I like) .... and whereby I can see the relevance over a referendum that is itself the cat in the bag and affects them the most I'd also worry we have now compulsory education to 18... and certainly how I was at 18...and how that would be today with social media.
A dose of reality as regards “Get Brexit Done” nonsense from, er, The Telegraph…?
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1202849876201164801?s=21
The pound is above referendum levels against the Euro for the first time since the referendum. It appears that the prospect of a significant Tory majority and some technical stuff are behind the rise. Having decided to pull the plug on our last remaining UK investments I'm trying to decide when to move. Tuesday seems like a good day. Any opinions?
I’m surprised you are pointing that out … it’s one reason I have to hold my nose if I vote for Corbyn’s Labour (pending last minute tactical voting)
I don't know what you mean here.
I don't think that we will be prevented from leaving the country. But we won't have the right to live and work in other countries if we aren't EU citizens. So we can leave on holiday but we will have to come back, unless we are lucky.
Molgrips
I don’t know what you mean here.
I don’t think that we will be prevented from leaving the country. But we won’t have the right to live and work in other countries if we aren’t EU citizens. So we can leave on holiday but we will have to come back, unless we are lucky.
Except that is what has happened in stages to multiple socialist countries.
Failure to deliver the promised utopia and human nature lead to increased control of the population (for the common good) and often this results in loss of freedoms or "we just need to be even more socialist"...
How else are Labour going to prevent people like Aron Banks just leaving their jurisdiction?
Not that I disagree with that but then the gradual authoritarianism has started and drawing a line becomes an ever shifting line... eventually we can justify preventing nurses leaving .. after all the state paid for their training...
It is however a risk not a definite ... and when compared against the pretty much complete repression of democracy and controls in the Tory Manifesto (Pg 48) a far more acceptable risk.
I think we are talking about different things.
I'm bemoaning the loss of FoM from a personal perspective.
eventually we can justify preventing nurses leaving .. after all the state paid for their training
Most nurses won't want to leave if their working conditions are good enough.
I'd just like to that all the contributors to this thread whatever their views. It's been a better insight into views than any media source. As Britain heads into another election I've noted an aire of resignation here, of inevitability. And the election thread says that Brexit is now secondary to the older members of society who will vote for a Tory Brexit simply because they feel a part of the peer group that does and haven't the capacity for independant thought to do otherwise.
That means that long term investing in Britain is a bad idea so I've sold. Future contributions to the thread from me will be from someone who has no vested interest whatsoever other than the impact it will have on Europe as a whole.
Watching European politics I'm beginning to see some positive effects of Britain's absence. Macrons ideas on taxing profits where they are made, making sure VAT is paid on everything coming into Europe etc. are gathering a following and Britian won't be around to hinder. Looking good.
See how far we've come in just a short space of time.
Oops typo to start my last post: "just like to thank"
So I'll repeat, thanks all for your insight.
Boris's mandate is even stronger than I expected, his negotiating ability no stronger than before, his red lines no doubt thicker. To all the remainers - I commiserate. To the leavers - You're getting what you voted for.
Ironically it's not the Labour party that's taking Britain back to the early 70s, it's the Conservatives.
On a personal level it's EU treaties that have enabled a lot of what I've done with my life. I'm in the happy position of still being '"in", however 66 million people will no longer enjoy those freedoms and rights.
Europe just got a little less united and a little weaker. It's bizarre to see people celebrating that.
66 million people will no longer enjoy those freedoms and rights.
Utter conjecture because no one one here know the full impact of Brexit until many years of negotiation and fall out.
You be better off not making assumptions and judgements that drive you and others to negativity.
I've never been flooded and it's unlikely to flood here, I still feel sorry for people who get flooded. It's not negativity, it's sympathy.
Utter conjecture
I think the phrase you are looking for is, “Project Fear”. If you can’t even accept that after we leave the EU we will lose the freedoms and rights we have as EU citizens… there are a lot of surprises in store for you.
2016 referendum,2017 general election,2019 European election and now the 2019 general election.Let's face it ,however unpalatable, the British electorate wants Brexit.You can blame Corbyn,the right wing media,Cummings dirty tricks or the stalling tactics of the UK parliament,whatever. We could have had a softer May Brexit but it was blocked by Remainer MPs on all sides and the ERG, setting off the course of events that leads us to where we are now.The country now faces a Boris Brexit which could be harder than practically anyone wants, however the size of his majority may mean that he is not depenedent on the ERG and so may push for a softer Brexit after all.Fingers crossed for the latter.
So for me the big question now is - what will the future relationship look like for Brits and EU citizens? Will our trade deal include some form of reciprocal labour movement? If not, will The EU unilaterally offer opportunities to UK citizens along the lines of the mooted 'associate member' idea?
The latter would be a killer move from the EU - it would allow pro-EU workers to migrate into the EU - which is more likely to be higher skilled wokers - simultaneously boosting the EU skills base and weakening the UK which is now a competitor, without being seen to be taking political action against the UK.
2019 European election and now the 2019 general election
As I recall, the electorate voted pro-remain / pro-third referendum in those two.
will The EU unilaterally offer opportunities to UK citizens along the lines of the mooted ‘associate member’ idea?
Works for me. Others? Dunno.
nick1962
the English electorate wants Brexit.
Fixed that for ye, but aye, argument is over, Boris's vision is happening.
molgrips
Subscriber
So for me the big question now is – what will the future relationship look like for Brits and EU citizens? Will our trade deal include some form of reciprocal labour movement? If not, will The EU unilaterally offer opportunities to UK citizens along the lines of the mooted ‘associate member’ idea?
Ask Boris, it's all him now.
We could have had a softer May Brexit but it was blocked by Remainer MPs on all sides and the ERG, setting off the course of events that leads us to where we are now.The country now faces a Boris Brexit which could be harder than practically anyone wants, however the size of his majority may mean that he is not depenedent on the ERG and so may push for a softer Brexit after all.Fingers crossed for the latter.
This brings us back to the fact that there's no way to win Brexit.
- Remainers unhappy with any form of Brexit
- Leavers unhappy with any form of Brexit that isn't precisely what they imagined it to be: Hard, Soft, Norway, keep/ditch CU, block all/some/none immigration etc, etc....
verses
This brings us back to the fact that there’s no way to win Brexit.
Planet you on? It's been won. Boris brexit won, what ever the heck that it, he's just been given the authority of a blank page.
It matters no more if remainers/leavers etc are happy, long as he keeps tories happy.
It matters no more if remainers/leavers etc are happy, long as he keeps tories happy.
Which, I think, was verses' point. Any form of brexit is simultaneously too brexity for some of the Tories and not brexity enough for others.
"Get brexit done," **** me. Three years down the line, umpteen court cases and general elections, and god knows how many billions of pounds later, we still haven't even made up our minds what we want. We invoked A50 without a clue and in six weeks time we're almost certainly going to be entering the Transition Phase still without a clue.
The tories will be united behind whatever Boris wants to do. This GE win gives him absolute authority.
Having calmed down a bit I'm now thinking that if we are going to leave the EU and suffer the consequences....I'm glad BJ and the Tories are going to be the ones accountable.
Even they can't blame Labour for the **** storm that's going to ensue in the years to come.
Still a bit stunned that many people see the way to reverse the years of Tory dismantling of society is to vote them in again.
All feels very 1980's again.
Hope so. I loved the 80s.
The music was better. Sort of.😁
Planet you on? It’s been won. Boris brexit won, what ever the heck that it, he’s just been given the authority of a blank page.
I'm on the planet that can see we're still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you're on.
You can please some of the people some of the time, etc etc...
The music was better. Sort of.😁
And hair. I had it on the top of my head. Loads of it.
I’m on the planet that can see we’re still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you’re on.
One half of that division is about to inflict whatever form of Brexit they want, and there's nothing the other half can do.
Game over
Yes, the game looks to be over, but I still think there's few/no winners.
verses
I’m on the planet that can see we’re still a hugely divided nation whichever side of the remain/leave debate you’re on.
Nations are always divided. This one nation come together stuff is nonsense.
Is it the end of this thread?
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?
As Brexit won't be done for... say a decade? This thread still has legs.
Worth keeping it alive for all the "we told you so" moments over those years too.😄
Best park this thread for 18 months and see how much we've had to beg for an extension - and how much we've been given, by then. Cos there's no way on this planet progress on a trade deal will be anywhere further than beyond preliminary discussions by then. We woz once at the top table. We'll be begging for crumbs in a year's time.
Even they can’t blame Labour for the **** storm that’s going to ensue in the years to come.
binners will still blame Corbyn and Seamus 😉
mooman
Member
Is it the end of this thread?Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?
Nothing like being magnanimous in victory...
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
No. But expect a bucket load of Itoldyouso it about 2 years.
Nah this thread is going to run and run, it fact it's only just started. The next 12 months is going to be mental, and Johnson is gonna pivot like a three legged pig.
Ask Boris, it’s all him now.
No, these things could come from the EU unilaterally or come out of the negotiations.
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost
Is that what you think this is about? We're just sore losers? No wonder you're so cynical.
We're upset that our rights have been stripped, our kids' futures have been jepoardised, our worlds have been shrunk, and our country is probably going to decline for a decade or two. We will continue to be upset about this as long as it continues to be the case!
And we'll come here to discuss the inevitable string of **** ups as the EU do us over in a men v boys sort of way.
A working and mature democracy can change its mind and reverse decisions. The campaign to rejoin has just started!
Our young people deserve the opportunities we were afforded in our youth. We'll be going back with all the trimmings of Schengen, Euro and anything else that happens between then and now.
We also need to change our voting system 43.6% of votes cast gave a majority government, 43.8% gave a minority opposition. If half the votes don't count the system is not fit for purpose and needs changing to a better model.
Big remain supporter here. But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave. Breaks my heart how the turkeys vote for christmas but gobble gobble.
mooman
Member
Is it the end of this thread?
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
or will they call for a Peoples Vote on the General Election result?
I think that we can finally admit that there is a majority of morons in this country. Whether we actually leave still remains to be seen.
JP
But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.
How so? A pro-Brexit party is forming the government, that isn’t the same thing at all.
molgrips
Subscriber
Ask Boris, it’s all him now.No, these things could come from the EU unilaterally or come out of the negotiations.
Yip, but whatever brexit turns out to be, it is happening, it's boris's vision.
You're basically asking, will there be free movement, unlikely..looks like I'll be getting an irish passport after all.
kelvin
Subscriber
But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.How so? A pro-Brexit party is forming the government, that isn’t the same thing at all.
I'd put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.
Will those here who have whinged and moaned for the last 3 years finally accept they lost .. twice!
Think history will show we all lost but hey rejoice your(hollow) victory
I’d put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.
Oh, completely. But we have no idea if more than half the voters still think we should leave. That would require a vote asking them that.
kelvin
Subscriber
I’d put that an other way, surely you can acknowledge that the remain side was routed.Oh, completely. But we have no idea if more than half the voters still think we should leave. That would require a vote asking them that.
It would, but the current government isn't and won't be minded to ask.
Yes, Br3xit is happening, it was the claim that we know there is a consensus that it should that I was questioning.
There's a consensus under the parliamentary system, the only ones with power, so aye there is a consensus.
What people think no longer really matters in relation to getting the withdrawal agreement finished. Which will be celebrated as "Brexit got done".
The things that come after that, I guess there room for public opinion to sway some things, to an extent, as they get brought up in the press. But I think most of it will lie in the hands of lawyers and Tory policy as it develops though.
Of course Brexit will happen now. The question is what sort. A country with a 5% lower GDP negotiating with three powerhouses each of over 300m people, but we hold all the cards, apparently. Well we want the German cars anyway and they need us...
Nobody will be satisfied. That is my one certain prediction. It wont be hard enough for the ERG or soft enough for remain. My less certain prediction is that economic reality will out in the end and a cushioned soft landing of BRINO will result. The conservatives know they have to sustain GDP to pay for the services the country expects and they have promised to restore in the coming post-austerity era.
And I get a works trip to Amsterdam instead of Canary Wharf.
TiRed
Nobody will be satisfied.
You'll only find that out next election tbh.
Think history will show we all lost but hey rejoice your(hollow) victory
And if that view is carried into the next election then the tories will be handed a get out of jail free pass as they easily be able to say it failed because the remain side frustrated it. The only option is to jump on board and try to make it work. If it fails it needs to be a collective failure, and equally if a success, then a collective success.
I actually think Johnson has given himself a big problem. The practicalities and realities of the economics will drag him towards a softer brexit. When that happens the ERG will kick off, and Farage will be back on the scene. It won't be long before the tories are fighting with each other again.
The only option is to jump on board and try to make it work.
What exactly does that mean because it sounds like the old meaningless toss them used to come out with? Give us some specifics.
I can’t jump on board a change, I have no say in it and cannot influence or adapt, I just get whatever’s coming with not much if anything I can do to mitigate the results. Do I go around saying brexit’s great, please enlighten us.
My fear about Brexit is not that it's happening, but that it is being done at the behest of foreign money and being handled by incompetents here who do not yet seem to have realised that we are no longer in an equal negotiating position, but very much the weaker party.
Predators eat the beast that strays from the herd.
I was and still am slightly euro-sceptic, but always figured the benefits outweighed the negatives. Now that we have no choice in the matter, I am fervently hoping I was wrong about that.
We have to accept that England has had a democratic vote and they have endorsed getting Brexit done, so that is what they should have.
Where it leaves the other nations in the UK is the next question.
I don’t see any reason to get behind Boris’ Brexit. I still despise him and what he stands for. Why should I want him to succeed? So he and his successors can shaft us and keep shafting us for decades? Yes we have had a democratic vote that gives him a big majority but we still have something called Her Majesty’s Opposition and I expect it to oppose, robustly - something it has failed to do in recent years.
Bollix to getting behind brexit, but there's no real point in arguing though, let the car crash tv commence..
CHB
Subscriber
Big remain supporter here. But surely after last night we have to acknowledge the consensus is to leave.
We don't, no. Boris's brexit won the election but they still didn't bring a majority, and all of the same issues still exist- people voted for brexit but even though there's now a solid brexit on the table they still didn't universally vote for that one (partly through believing there are options, partly through just going "**** it, let's get it over with" regardless), and even many of the people who did vote for that brexit and who believe it'll be delivered, aren't totally happy with it, they just think it's the only option they had.
And most importantly, it was sold once again entirely with false information. Every single person who believed in "let's get brexit done" and "we have to do brexit before we can fix the NHS" and "it'll be over with and then we can move on", was lied to just as much as in the referendum. Just that this time, it's not a swarm of lies from a dozen different sides, it's all down to the prime minister. And literally none of the persuasive arguments were true (and that was a political position chosen freely)
So nothing has changed at all re concensus, and it never could. But what has changed, is that the brexit side has absolutely won the argument despite that. Concensus never really mattered which is why they didn't bother to build one.
Only thing there is to do now, is to make sure they get their noses rubbed in it as hard as humanly possible, when they finally "get brexit done" and everyone wakes up the next morning and discovers there's still years more of it to come, and it'll be way worse than the ruling party promised.
They've now decisively sold the electorate a pup, and they can't deny that they own it 100%. We can't fix that any more, all that remains is to make sure the shit sticks to the shits that did it. It's not a consolation prize, it's just our part of the next five years of Still Haven't Got Brexit Done.
I won't be getting behind it, why would I? It's still stupid and damaging, and no amount of quietly falling into line will stop it being hugely divisive- I mean, it's literally a process of division. This new government has no interest at all in reducing that, in fact they're going to increase it- their idea of reducing division is still to do what they want and to tell everyone else to suck it up, as if beating people into submission is the same as uniting them
There'll be nothing approaching a concensus until brexit either turns out to be great and it turns out we were wrong, or brexit turns out to be a disaster and everyone but its most rabid fanboys settles down to living with it and dealing with it. That's what concensus means with brexit, there's no middle ground and there's no compromise option. There was never even a brexit that could unite brexiteers never mind remainers.
No doubt Mooman will think stating the obvious is "whinging and moaning", or maybe "project fear".
..
The only option is to jump on board and try to make it work.
Since 2016, 16+ million people have been told to shut up and get over it in the name of "democracy." What on earth makes you think anyone will listen to us now?
Indeed, after all your prattle for the last two thousand pages complaining about remainers belittling leavers, why the hell would you even remotely think that we're just going to go "oh, all right then" after being treated as an irrelevance at best since then? You cry "what did you expect?" well, right back at you sunbeam, what do you expect? You can't have it both ways.
Elsewhere on the Internet the other day someone told me to go and **** my mother, this is presumably the sort of persuasive discourse you expect will win us over to start getting behind? We may reap what we sow but that cuts both ways I'm afraid. Sorry.
This relatively new narrative - one I predicted years ago - that it's somehow all leavers' fault for not getting behind brexit is weapons-grade bullshit and it makes me absolutely ****ing incandescent. Aside from the fact that it wouldn't have magically made the impossible possible, it's simply not our monkey. You want it, you work it out.
You’re basically asking, will there be free movement, unlikely
There won't be reciprocal free movement, no. But the EU can let in whoever they want via whatever scheme they can dream up.
molgrips
There won’t be reciprocal free movement, no. But the EU can let in whoever they want via whatever scheme they can dream up.
Wasn't there a move by the EU to legislate to allow UK citizens who wanted to remain EU citizens to apply to retain EU citizenship?
Haven't seen anything on it for a couple of years though.
I'll certainly be applying if they do that.