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You think the Gammons give a toss about NI???
By ‘Gammons’ do you mean somebody who doesnt agree with your point of view?
“they’re nothing but blind fascists, brought up on hate and given lives to waste
SLF for the win!
Didn't a recent survy of gammons enthusiastic Brexiteers say that the economy taking a massive hit, Scotlandshire leaving the union, Oirland leaving the union and having their own grandchildren disemboweled in front of them with a rusty hacksaw blade would all be prices worth paying to leave the EU?
This is where we are going
https://twitter.com/williamnhutton/status/1186753012024385539?s=19
This Brexit thread is going to run for the next decade?
They think of everything.........
Assuming some of you will have picked this up. But if not, worth a read. It’s a short enough article.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/22/operation-yellowhammer-brexit-preparations
Some schadenfreude for us all
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1186915691821182976?s=19
Cleverly is a proper bell-end
clocks go back this weekend.
It's a terrifying weekend for dyslexics though.....
By ‘Gammons’ do you mean somebody who doesnt agree with your point of view?
I mean the racist/xenophobic git brext dun at any cost leavers. Like my parents and a sad majority of my colleagues on the shop floor at work.
This Brexit thread is going to run for the next decade?
Probably.
http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2019/10/brexit-eyes-to-near-future.html
As a Brexitier he rules out the extension/election/furtherextension/referendum/remain path, but then his reasoning about why that is shrinkingly unlikely are probably sound. He highlights the clashes ahead after “Brexit Day”… clashes that exist because we still haven’t chosen what we want to replace membership with, or weighed up that alternative against keeping membership.
Theres a spectacularly dim Tory MP on five live at the moment (Gillian Keegan - MP for Chichester) telling us that all the economic forecasts showing a negative impact on the economy from Brexit are all wrong because they don't factor in.....
robotics and artificial intelligence
She's not expanding on this as to how this is going to change everything. She just keeps repeating the 4 words `robotics and artificial intelligence'
Seems a lot like David Davis's statement 'the Irish border won't be an issue because..... technology'
One thing thats been genuinelly shocking over the past few years is the intellectual capacity of our elected representatives. They seem to have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of how a modern economy actually functions and be under the impression that you press a magic button called 'technology' and it miraculously sorts everything out for you.
doomaniac
I mean the racist/xenophobic git brext dun at any cost leavers. Like my parents and a sad majority of my colleagues on the shop floor at work.
Are the vast majority of these shop floor colleagues not immigrants?
That's a loaded Q ... I'm just making the point that what THEY fear (true/likely or not)
Fearing for your job when there are numerous examples of shop-floors worked almost exclusively by immigrants isn't racist or even xenophobic.
Thinking that voting for Brexit will change it ... is at best naive.
Moreover, I truly believe that ERG/Rees Mogg's idea of a Points based system" would be to allocate points based on how cheap they can import unskilled/semi skilled workers.
But it's official, Priti Patel does have a resting smirky face. The BBC acknowledges.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50150993
1) Eastern Europeans being shipped in to take jobs
...
The first 1 is real…. but our own government could actually prevent this
Is it though? Are we actively "shipping in" anyone?
To the best of my knowledge, the last time we shipped in foreigners was shortly after WWII when we were desperate for skilled labour like doctors, and that was mostly from the Indian sub-continent.
But it’s official, Priti Patel does have a resting smirky face. The BBC acknowledges.
Oh dear, then I apologise unreservedly (fingers crossed behind back).
Are we there yet?
I have actually had enough
I think opposition parties should go hard on the point that Bojo's deal does not mean Brexit is done it means PT1 is done.
Fearing for your job when there are numerous examples of shop-floors worked almost exclusively by immigrants isn’t racist or even xenophobic.
I think they need to be more worried about machines than immigrants. Perhaps they could start smashing them up, post-Brexit. I believe that was quite popular during the industrial revolution
Actually... with the Brexiteers desire to return us the halcyon goden age of empire, thats probably next on their itinerary
Surely you mean "robotics and artificial intelligence"?
Nobody's factored that in you know. 😉
Cougar ...
Is it though? Are we actively “shipping in” anyone?
To the best of my knowledge, the last time we shipped in foreigners was shortly after WWII when we were desperate for skilled labour like doctors, and that was mostly from the Indian sub-continent.
Yes .... and I heard it from both sides.
As in I have Polish relatives who have told me about the job adverts and bus and OH is Polish and knows plenty of more qualified people who have relatives/school friends etc. who have signed up and basically it's slave labour.
It's also quite complex ... the industrial town my OH grew up in has suffered themselves.
The big employers have struggled to provide employment due to competition (Fiat and a shoe factory being 2) so one way or another the low skilled are doing a "Tebbit" but the Polish unemployment is far less than the UK so they have to do something.
It's 1 1/2 hrs at best to Krakow ... 4-5 to Warsaw... and despite this being a traditionally German speaking area (FIL used to work in Germany) for whatever complex reasons the UK is the destination.
Surely you mean “robotics and artificial intelligence”?
Nobody’s factored that in you know. 😉
Given the quality (lack of) of most Government Procured IT projects, they'll probably accidentally create a version of Skynet which will wage war on itself for eternity.
binners
I think they need to be more worried about machines than immigrants. Perhaps they could start smashing them up, post-Brexit. I believe that was quite popular during the industrial revolution
Don't disagree but then what derogatory term shall we apply... ? Luddites?
Let's not forget we can run these all off the fusion plants Boris has promised!
The point is it is VERY easy for Leave to manipulate scared people.
Remain make it even easier by just dismissing them as racist... when most of them are just scared for their jobs or way of life.
As in I have Polish relatives who have told me about the job adverts and bus
Adverts as in, what, UK companies advertising in Poland, going "hey, come here and work for us"?
Bus?
Remain make it even easier by just dismissing them as racist… when most of them are just scared for their jobs or way of life.
I totally agree that it's unhelpful to scream "racist" every time someone mentions people of a different ethnic background. But you're as guilty as anyone of rash generalisations here.
I've said before, I live in an area with a high Asian population. There's Fatima Fabrics just down the road, and a mosque round the corner. I have no doubts that my grandparents would have been appalled and yes, I don't particularly enjoy the call to prayer being blasted out at all hours. But a fear of it affecting my "way of life" is hyperbole at best, the fact of the matter is that it's affected my way of life not one jot. British civilisation didn't crumble the day Abdul opened up a kebab shop in town.
I was cutting my hedge back the other day, the beardy ****stani bloke two doors down insisted that his two 20-something sons helped and wouldn't take no for an answer. They properly put their backs into it with nary a complaint, filling maybe eight bin-bags full of cuttings. They're great neighbours, it's the few white families on the block that are shits.
I'd posit that perhaps it's not really a fear of losing their job, it's a fear of having to do some bloody work in order to compete with those wanting to do it.
filling maybe eight bin-bags full of cuttings
you must have a big bush
I’d posit that perhaps it’s not really a fear of losing their job, it’s a fear of having to do some bloody work in order to compete with those wanting to do it.
But your rash generalization is better than his rash generalization?
It’s alright, Brexit will safeguard their jobs and protect their “way of life”, whatever that may mean. [sarcasm]
and despite this being a traditionally German speaking area (FIL used to work in Germany) for whatever complex reasons the UK is the destination.
There are over 2 million Polish people in Germany (3 million if you include 2nd generation immigrants which the Germans don't), 900,000 in the UK. Germany is very much the destination of choice for Polish immigrants.
But gullible people are easily misled by false statements such as yours into believing that everyone is heading to the UK. It feeds into the racist narrative of British exceptionalism, but it just isn't true.
Johnson's withdrawal Act passed last night by 329 to 299. Unbelievably that's 52% to 48%. it's fast becoming the defining numbers of our time
It didn't pass.
It was just start of the process.
As in I have Polish relatives who have told me about the job adverts and bus and OH is Polish and knows plenty of more qualified people who have relatives/school friends etc. who have signed up and basically it’s slave labour.
That's an agency problem, nothing to do with the fact they're Polish. Agency workers get treated like shit even if they're British too. Remember the Morcambe Bay cockle pickers? They were Chinese, not really an EU problem either.
Not sure what the point is about 'bussing them in' other than scaremongering? The suggestion seemed to be that 'they' were in fact the government organising the imported labour. I don't think this is the case?
There are over 2 million Polish people in Germany (3 million if you include 2nd generation immigrants which the Germans don’t), 900,000 in the UK. Germany is very much the destination of choice for Polish immigrants.
It is a rate of change issue, we went from having a pretty small Polish community to a very significant one in a relatively short space of time. Germany has always had a large community.
Similar issues are arising in Germany in relation to their recent influx of immigrants from Muslim countries, only the other day Merkel made a speech saying their experiment in multiculturalism was failing.
only the other day Merkel made a speech saying their experiment in multiculturalism was failing.
You mean this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451
The other day in this case being 2010?
you must have a big bush
Not any more, do pay attention. (-:
But your rash generalization is better than his rash generalization?
Yeah, fair point.
Cougar....
Adverts as in, what, UK companies advertising in Poland, going “hey, come here and work for us”?
Who knows ... (not being facetious).... but
Molgrips
That’s an agency problem, nothing to do with the fact they’re Polish. Agency workers get treated like shit even if they’re British too. Remember the Morcambe Bay cockle pickers? They were Chinese, not really an EU problem either.
I don't disagree ... I'm not saying it IS a EU problem, I'm saying LEAVE are saying it's a EU problem!
Leave are also saying the same people are taking your jobs and claiming your benefit and using your NHS and your schools...
It's all bollox... but that doesn't stop people being scared!
Not sure what the point is about ‘bussing them in’ other than scaremongering? The suggestion seemed to be that ‘they’ were in fact the government organising the imported labour. I don’t think this is the case?
No, their perception is the government perhaps... but that's not the point???
The point is Leave blame the EU ... governments/remain have never actually corrected that and indeed have to some extent been happy to blame the EU. (Incl. Pro EU Govt's) whilst lying scum like Boris were writing editorials crap... and Tory's defending ZHC's.
The issue I see is that ZHC's are pretty much an abomination anyway.... banning those would be a start to addressing... and there is plenty of EU legislation that would SUPPORT this... we (UK) are pretty much pushing the limits.
The UK governments could also just prevent immigrant workers into specific local industries. Again pushing on an open door... (The French do it) so long as it means what it say's (local).
You can't say someone from Durness as a right to apply for a job in Folkstone but someone from Calais can't.... but you can specific applicants must be local.
Again, it's another cop-out 'blame the EU' when it's a UK govt problem and leave had a field day.
Cougar
I totally agree that it’s unhelpful to scream “racist” every time someone mentions people of a different ethnic background. But you’re as guilty as anyone of rash generalisations here.
Quite possibly but it's not a crime (yet)
I’ve said before, I live in an area with a high Asian population. There’s Fatima Fabrics just down the road, and a mosque round the corner. I have no doubts that my grandparents would have been appalled and yes, I don’t particularly enjoy the call to prayer being blasted out at all hours. But a fear of it affecting my “way of life” is hyperbole at best, the fact of the matter is that it’s affected my way of life not one jot. British civilisation didn’t crumble the day Abdul opened up a kebab shop in town.
I was cutting my hedge back the other day, the beardy ****stani bloke two doors down insisted that his two 20-something sons helped and wouldn’t take no for an answer. They properly put their backs into it with nary a complaint, filling maybe eight bin-bags full of cuttings. They’re great neighbours, it’s the few white families on the block that are shits
Again, I'll differentiate between neighbours and neighbourhood.
It doesn't bother you but that doesn't mean anyone it does bother is racist.
I spent most of my working life living in other cultures, it's not a big deal for me either... but I can understand if people are scared or feel uncomfortable.
It's also specific areas... and again "integration" most of my ****stani friends in the SE live in multi-cultural places (I can't actually think of any who don't). Most of the ones from the NW from the 80's lived in enclaves.... quite a few of them moved away and now live in multi-cultural places after uni, others got trapped.
MSP
There are over 2 million Polish people in Germany (3 million if you include 2nd generation immigrants which the Germans don’t), 900,000 in the UK. Germany is very much the destination of choice for Polish immigrants.
But gullible people are easily misled by false statements such as yours into believing that everyone is heading to the UK. It feeds into the racist narrative of British exceptionalism, but it just isn’t true.
Reread what I wrote.... I'm talking specifically about the ones going for un-named ZHC's.
I don't think Germany would even allow the level of slavery the UK supports!
The issue I see is that ZHC’s are pretty much an abomination anyway….
#1 Cash in hand.
#2 ZHC.
Two differences, as far as I can see.
ZHC can be taxed.
ZHC looks like "employment" therefore no more benefits for you sonny jim.
I didn't I saw a report of a more recent speech, but I certainly used the word failing because of that article because when I googled to check I didn't pick up the date. However, I don't think it is controversial to say that immigration has led to significant concerns about integration in Germany as they have done here, but it would be fair to say Merkel is much more upbeat about them than my wording suggested.
Who knows …
I rather assumed you did as you were the one saying that Polish friends had told you all about it?
It’s all bollox… but that doesn’t stop people being scared!
Sure. It's perception vs reality, which was kind of what I was getting at.
It doesn’t bother you but that doesn’t mean anyone it does bother is racist.
Yeah, but it doesn't mean they aren't either.
But we're going round in circles now, I agreed in a previous post that it could be xenophobia rather than outright racism. But I'd like to bet it's not as one-sided towards the former as you seem to be asserting.
If I polled the good, upstanding white people in my home town and asked them if they didn't want to live near Asian families and why, I rather doubt I'd get many saying that it was because of a lack of cucumber sandwiches, Morris dancing and croquet on the lawn.
There's a report from a few hours ago online saying that Merkel has said that "multi-kulti" has failed. Some of the quotes are verbatim from that 2010 speech - maybe she's just given the same speech again somewhere? Of course, that's not quite what she said.
Then there's the story about one of her political allies having to have police protection because of death threats from Far Right extremists.
Oh sorry, I didn't mention where I read the report from three hours ago...
Fox News.
(Not somewhere I go for news, but I guess plenty of people do.)
Not sure what the point is about ‘bussing them in’ other than scaremongering?
I'm sure I saw an article in which people from Romania were travelling to Britain by a scheduled bus service. At some point this was described as "bus loads" of Romanians heading towards Britain.
If they'd flown it probably wouldn't have been commented on.
I didn't pick it up from Fox News either, saw a tweet a day or so ago, but struggling to find with search now because so many have retweeted the fox news story.
I seem to recall a TV news reporter being at Heathrow(?) waiting for people to arrive on the first plane in from Romania when they joined the EU, so they were commenting on it.
Buses, aeroplanes, boats!?! Good god, is there no stopping “them”?!?!
[sarcasm]
The sooner we build that wall, fill in that tunnel, shut the airports and clog up our ports… the better. Who’s for picking up a rifle, and manning the barricades?
That list of names no one wants to see right now…
https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1186953068467965952?s=21
The sooner we build that wall, fill in that tunnel, shut the airports and clog up our ports… the better. Who’s for picking up a rifle, and manning the barricades?
It's OK, we're sending them all back where they came from in a few weeks remember. Then we can get back to the good old British values of leaving our doors unlocked at night, that nice man delivering the coal, children up chimneys, casual homophobia, and underage sex.
I might write to the Royal Mint (using actual paper and a stamp with a picture of the queen gawd bless her) to ask if they'll consider a commemorative shilling.
Is this the moment Brexit got done?
It may well be the moment grammar got done in.
Coveney has said a 3mth flextension (ie end of Jan unless deal sooner)
And Ireland are the decision makers here (taking back control, fail)
Now whats going on with an election ?
Nov, Dec, Jan???
and be under the impression that you press a magic button called ‘technology’ and it miraculously sorts everything out for you.
If this button exists, and it’s all so easy to make it better, then why haven’t they already pressed it and made things better right now?
Also:
There are over 2 million Polish people in Germany (3 million if you include 2nd generation immigrants which the Germans don’t), 900,000 in the UK. Germany is very much the destination of choice for Polish immigrants.
Pretty sure they don’t count them because they’re Germans. Not immigrants.
If this button exists, and it’s all so easy to make it better, then why haven’t they already pressed it and made things better right now?
They did press it but the batteries were in the wrong way
If the extension is ok'd, Mekon & Bohnson will want it ASAP. Other parties may be less hurried. As the blond cockwomble threw away his slim majority, he's not in the driving seat for that.
Personally, I would simply very much like to see Bohnson's earlier ditch wish come true, preferably with the part of Eva Braun played by the Mekon. Most other anything else is a bonus.
I heard on the radio tonight that Google had made a working quantum computer, that must be the technology they're on about.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50154993
Maybe Corbz has the technology button next to his stop brexit button.
Cougar
Who knows …
I rather assumed you did as you were the one saying that Polish friends had told you all about it?
The read the adverts, they know people who did it.... that's a long way from actually knowing if it is a UK contracting company subcontracting through a Polish looking company/legal entity.
I'd not really asked because I expect this sort of thing to be running through layers of obfuscation anyway...
It’s all bollox… but that doesn’t stop people being scared!
Sure. It’s perception vs reality, which was kind of what I was getting at.
It doesn’t bother you but that doesn’t mean anyone it does bother is racist.
Yeah, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t either.
But we’re going round in circles now, I agreed in a previous post that it could be xenophobia rather than outright racism. But I’d like to bet it’s not as one-sided towards the former as you seem to be asserting.
It would also depend how you want to define it.... what I am saying (or trying) is whatever you call it this isn't "Churchill type racism" where there is a belief a race is somehow "better" than another. (Although I suspect Rees Mogg may, he's not your typical Labour Voter...)
If I polled the good, upstanding white people in my home town and asked them if they didn’t want to live near Asian families and why, I rather doubt I’d get many saying that it was because of a lack of cucumber sandwiches, Morris dancing and croquet on the lawn.
If you poll a load of people next to say a US airbase in Germany many will say the same things...not because of lack of proper sausages in the store.
Or if you go to a 98% single ethnicity ward in your borough and ask them why they all live together then I'm sure many if honest is they don't want to live amongst English people.
All of that is just (mainly) perfectly normal Xenophobia.... or at least was
Leave seem to have taken some mild xenophobia and managed to cultivate it into racism or more towards it.
I'm sure if a word doesn't exist yet one will...that is the racist equivalent of "radicalisation" to describe how Leave with a few national "papers" have taken the mildly xenophobic AND increasingly fed the drivel and some truths ... "look this poor English Lady had to take pigs from her window because the muslims complained" and stir these up.
You seem to think a huge part of our population was very racist the whole time and suddenly "came out" ...?? rather than this slow grooming process.
Personally I think the reason is because of the implication there is something wrong with not wanting to live with a load of foreigners .... unless of course it's the foreigners then it's OK?
What's the remain response ?
"Ooh... it's a bit racist if you don't want to live in a enclave of foreigners - that's not a reason we can discuss"
What's the Leave answer?
Stir up more hatred... chuck in some lies...ferment and say "of course you don't and we will take back control of our own borders AFTER you vote leave"
I just thought I'd pop back here to get away from the "cyclist swears at dog owner" thread. It's calmer here.
OK, notwithstanding the current joint activity to come up with a programme for Boris's Brexit Bill, let's say it's 3 months from the EU and a GE. The Tories go into it with a clear policy of getting BBB over the line with as few amendments as possible. UKIP/Brexit "Party" will surely go along with this as they're really not going to get anything better. I'm not sure now where Labour and LibDem are at.
LibDem had a clear Revoke stance though that seems to have been watered down a little in favour of a Peoples Vote.
Labour? Is it PV with BBB vs Revoke as options or are they after a Red Unicorn Brexit and then PV, or RUB and no PV?
Surely anything involving PV and/or any sort of renegotiation will mean another extension of 12 months or more. Will the EU be happy with that?
Boris' bill requires businesses in NI to fill out forms to send goods to the rest of the UK. Boris himself does not even seem to understand or know what goods or forms. It's insane. How can anyone support it?
This is the Bulgarian viewpoint and really made me laugh 😂
https://twitter.com/julianpopov/status/1185664196178042880?s=21
that's genuinely funny!
Hmmm....BBC explains why no impact assessments have been published
That is the fundamental strategic choice, made by this government, to pursue unfettered free trade deals with the US and others, at the expense of extra trade barriers with our biggest trade partner - the EU.
Clearly, the game has moved on since the Summer. We now realise that the EU won't open it's markets to us to cost effectively dump our non-compliant tat so we're trying to forge a transatlantic alliance by offering closer regulatory alignment.
The madness of completely shutting the door on exports that are barely 25 miles from our shore notwithstanding, it's clear that the government are more than happy to destroy what's left of industry:
It promised to align regulations with the EU in many sectors, and adopted a series of legally binding "level playing field" arrangements covering the environment, employment, and competition.
But it also limited the ambition in other free trade deals with, for example, the US and other partners. By implicitly aligning tariff rates with the EU and sharing regulatory standards in many areas, Theresa May went out of her way to promise alignment to industries - such as automotive, aerospace & pharmaceuticals - at the expense of freedom over other deals with partners who would prefer a more flexible approach.
I love "flexible approach". Not.
And this doozy:
There are two reasons why there is no economic impact assessment being published. First, it would take longer than a few days to do one. And second, because the assessment would almost certainly show that the medium term trade off for the UK is negative for growth.
So we do indeed get Mr Javid's "lost decade" and no doubt the the resulting job losses will be blamed on an intractable European Union - cunningly missing the point that we helped write the Single Market legislation.
The flip side is that a more expansive free trade policy, with the US and others, will create some winners too - perhaps in some parts of financial services, tech, elements of cutting edge medical research, and in small businesses that do not rely on trade with the EU. Most of the bigger positive impacts will take longer to be realised.
Ah, those sunlit uplands!
So it is practically no deal in all but name, we'll be desperate for trade treaties and will be "flexible" to adopt those stipulated by China, India, et al who'll have far greater economic clout than us.
Have you ever stopped to wonder why no-one is mooting "sovereignty" anymore?
https://politics-punked.com/2019/10/07/brexitannia-the-british-identity-crisis/
If only that article could be written on the side of a bus....
Ah, those sunlit uplands!
I’m still waiting for an answer to what fabulous things you can do after Brexit that you can’t do now.
Are they even bothering to sale sunlit uplands now seems that ‘getting Brexit done’ is more important than er what it offers.
Remember kids don’t let a good slogan get in the way of reality.
So for Boris to get his election, does he have to call and win a vote of no confidence in himself?
how-can-boris-johnson-get-a-general-election-before-january
He hasn’t the numbers to call a general election but can do a 1 line bill but then it’ll get amended.
I’m hoping he’ll do something interesting but for all the bluster he does seem to be very careful with things that place him in legal jeopardy.
Ie no witness statement for the poroguing and a carefully written letter to try to not ask for an extension.
Of course you could also argue why would he give up the job he’s always wanted, May managed to sit it out for 3 years spinning plates.
He could sit it out for a few years complaining bitterly how they’re stopping him.
It’s a shite job but there’s free b&b an good WiFi an a car going with it.
He hasn’t the numbers to call a general election but can do a 1 line bill but then it’ll get amended.
But he can ensure an amended bill doesn't pass, not ideal but manageable. Preference will be to get Labour to vote under FTPA, Corbyn apparently doesn't think they can continually duck it - probably correctly - many of his MPs supposedly disagree.
So Johnson has manufactured, much to my surprise, decent options, albeit none without risks.
I heard about Ken Clarke threatening to throw in a lowering of voting age and proportional representation, I put that down to twitterstyria if you will.
I can see why a lower voting age should be chosen for a referendum but any change for a GE should be a permanent one - and affect voting for all elections. Would there even be time to get all the 16-17 year olds registered?
PR? generally in favour but surely shouldn't be rushed.
The whole thing has just become the most pathetic I've ever seen.
Practicalities are seemingly irrelevant and it's all about a few MPs saving face, what little face they have left.
Speak to anyone outside the UK and the attitude is basically 'wtf lol, why?'
Both labour leadership & Tory leadership are internally divided over when's best to go for an election
Good argument to hold it in mid winter as older folks less lily to turn out & help Tories
At the same time if its not until then will Johnson be able to blame Corbyn for delaying?
Polls look bad for Corbyn, but they did in 2017
After or just before a confirmed Brexit day would be what Johnson most wants
Peter Oborne isn't always right, bit he's bang on with this
https://twitter.com/Sillyshib/status/1187088250932023298?s=19
What if they plan an election for December and it snows? That'll slash turnout in certain areas, and damage credibility. Is there legislation about this? Can there be an emergency postponement?
I can see the "Boris wrecks school nativity" stories in the local paper already.
Most school halls, church halls, school etc are in good and regular use all through December already.
Our local polling station is our daughters primary school. They have to shut it when it's a polling day, so potentially you'd be forcing a good number of parents to take a day of their already expended annual leave in the run up to Christmas.
Kimbers- Peter Obourne is absolutely bang on. It’s been winding me up watching the BBC (in particular, as they should know better) quote ‘a source at number 10’ as if it’s a disgruntled civil servant leaking information, when they know full-well it’s Dominic Cummings (in his official capacity as the PM’s chief strategist)
While Johnson was on his feet in parliament the other day saying one thing, the ‘source at number 10’ was saying something completely different.
This technique of deliberate misinformation- of the executive saying 2 completely contradictory things at the same time, so as to keep everyone guessing - is one developed and used very effectively by one Mr V Putin.
I heard about Ken Clarke threatening to throw in a lowering of voting age
Having 16 and 17 olds voting is not going to help Tories much so why would they propose that?
There is something seriously wrong with a teenager who would choose to vote Tory. How could someone be so bitter and selfish at that age?
is one developed and used very effectively by one Mr V Putin.
Yep reminds me of Adam Curtis talking about non-linear war, in hypernormalisation
I can't wait for the Adam Curtis about this catastro**** to come out in a few years
Having 16 and 17 olds voting is not going to help Tories much so why would they propose that?
I don't think Ken Clarke is really trying to help the current leadership of the Tory party.
What if they plan an election for December and it snows?
Old people don't vote, Tories lose.
What's not to like?
I don’t think Ken Clarke is really trying to help the current leadership of the Tory party.
But he would presumably still prefer a Tory party to one led by the evil communist Corbyn.
Maybe. Or, maybe he'd prefer Britain to not have a catastrophic Brexit.
only Conservative MP to vote against the triggering of Article 50
But he would presumably still prefer a Tory party to one led by the evil communist Corbyn.
Why ?
Assuming Corbyn can even be elected he can only do so much damage from a Ken Clarke view to the UK in a single term.
I doubt Ken Clarke believes the Corbyn utopia would survive after that ... I also dare say if he's wrong we still have a functional company and if there is no first class rail travel* he can live with that.
*Just randomly
Why ?
Because he's a tory, and an old school one at that, which means his single motivation is protecting the power and wealth of those who currently hold it.
Peter Oborne isn’t always right, bit he’s bang on with this
Have a listen to Jeremy Vine from an hour in yesterday - Amol Rajan was presenting and had Oborne on, it was a distinctly unpleasant ad hom that got really rather spicy. I quite liked Amol, but that was one of the least objective pieces I think I've ever heard on the Beeb.