[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

The end result involved considerable skill in achieving consensus and documentation that allows both sides to claim victory

really? Both sides claiming victory you think?

Red Line: The UK govt didn't want to pay a penny in money to the EU

Actuality: We will pay as normal into the EU for 2019 and 2020, and exit will cost somewhere between £35-£40 billion, and will pay pension contributions indefinitely

Red Line: The UK govt didn't want to have ECJ jurisdiction

Actuality: UK courts can/will refer to the ECJ for at least 8 years past exit

Red line: no border in Ireland

Actuality: unclear how an open border will be achieved but round one says in the absence of a later agreement, the UK will ensure “full alignment” with the rules of the customs union and single market that uphold the Good Friday agreement.

Red line: We will leave the SM, CU and EU

Actuality: See the magical realism of Ireland border.

The UK govt has caved in. The idea that May and Davies, and the rest of Tories have, in any way shape or form, clenched victory from round one of the leave talks, is as fantastically deluded as the claim the "something approaching but not quite the same colour blue" passport is an iconic symbol of British-ness.

QED

They did a brilliant job!

Would you really prefer a bad deal?

For clarity, quitting the EU with no deal is a bad deal.
All conceivable (and not just someone’s fantasy) deals are worse than EU (non-euro) membership.
I wonder when we get to “we're not going to take a bad deal so we won’t do a deal to quit - we’ll just stay”?
Corbyn’s recent words (unlike the headline) would not exclude that. Wriggle room as THM observes is a useful thing.
Just pondering. But I keep being right at the moment so I might as well push the boat out on pondering. I might be wrong for a change. Never know.

Not sure why THM mocks us for not knowing what's going on behind the scenes...? Of course we don't.

I haven’t. I have simply disagreed with those who claim
Incorrectly that nothing is going on behind the scenes.

They are the ones who are mocking you. The deniers and moaners

Cos he's a troll,who claims to work in a big financial organisation,which is probably a chippy in Clapham,so he has no idea either,that's why he is good at sneering,and very bad at providing evidence to back up his claims.

Oh,did I forget to mention condescending too ?

I haven’t. I have simply disagreed with those who claim
Incorrectly that nothing is going on behind the scenes.

Who said that? I didn't notice it.

Chippy?? Don’t be so rude. We do fine kebabs served with warm vimto as well - don’t be so condescending. Chippy....

Blink and you miss it mol. There’s a lot of false stuff being posted so it is hard to keep up admittedly

Indeed, on both side of the debate.

True but remoaners are winning it at the moment

It's a good story THM,keep making it up,it amuses us no end.

Haggis supper please THM.

Curry sauce ?

X- post only served to drunks IGM !!

Too early for that 😉

An 12:30 staple to be sure in the old days

True but remoaners are winning it at the moment

Oh, I don't know, there's an equal amount of Uptopian fantasy bull-shine coming from the Brexiteers on this thread as well. Right, on you go, I feel solied enough now.

Cos he's a troll,who claims to work in a big financial organisation,

I thought he had 'students'.

It is a line of questioning I think is worth pursuing as it something THM is pretty vague about, yet gets a bit of a tetch on if questioned too hard as zokes did once about THM's 'involvement' with immigration in some regard.

I think some of the illusion might be shattered if we truly established what THM does in the real world. It can't be too high-powered as he seems to spend most of his time on here.......

Curry sauce!?! No chance.
Only the purest malt vinegar and salt.

And what’s this served to drunks nonsense?

Are you an English student by any chance?

Lovely bunch, but strange eating habits the English. I mean they even eat those deep fried Mars bars we did as a joke.

Was - at Scotland’s finest and second oldest in UK. But a long time ago. Not long after wee eck which is why I know he WAS taught proper economics even though he subsequently forget a lot of it (conveniently).

Highlights of Scottish chippies: the fresh fish; vinegar; haggis supper when pissed (never eaten sober!). Much better than southern version

Curry sauce marks you out as N of Watford

I thought he had 'students'.

He is always unclear as even he cannot be arsed to flesh out his stories.

As if by magic 😉

I can honestly say I’ve never had curry sauce in a chippy.
The mind boggles.

And Glasgow Uni!! I’d have had you down as an Edinburgh alumni but that’s fourth oldest I think. (StA, Gla, Aberd, Edi, Strath, HW, Dundee, Stirling as I recall - depends how you count them of course)

And you live up North ???

So what does THM do in the real world, then?

Batters cod and haddock obviously but Croydon not Clapham and serves the odd kebab

Could introduce Haggis Supper to S London though. There’s a thought...

A proper battered half haggis please. None of the haggis sausage nonsense.

Tut tut. Second oldest in UK and Scotland’s FINEST

You don’t need any more clues (or “links” 😉 )

Can’t be finest if they had you, so I discounted that.
😉

Checked the age order too.

So,still no honest answers,all smoke and mirrors.

Second oldest in UK and Scotland’s FINEST

Long time since I've bee but L'alba d'oro was highly regarded back in my day (which also implies it's been around a fair while, though I wouldn't expect 2nd oldest).

Mine's a fish supper with salt and sauce please.

Or maybe.....

[img] [/img]

Curry sauce marks you out as N of Watford

Watford, or Watford Gap?

I'm very slightly south of the latter, and would always have curry sauce (which my local chippy sells, thanks).

#fakenews

So what does THM do in the real world, then?

Whatever it is, he clearly doesn't know what a chippy is 🙂 Shame...

I think some of the illusion might be shattered if we truly established what THM does in the real world. It can't be too high-powered as he seems to spend most of his time on here....

Dunno that bloke with the porn on his pc had a nice job 🙂

Get them while they're young. You have to admit that Brexiteers are just a bit thick ... quite apart from indoctrinating children would you want someone who has produced the below teaching your children anything.

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/24490934247_46a95dbd31_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/24490934247_46a95dbd31_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Djbrv2 ]DSJSHtBX4AAOqbH[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/151687774@N05/ ]james anderson[/url], on Flickr

So rich, in this context

to work in a big financial organisation,which is probably a chippy in Clapham,

What’s a chippy ?

I think we can safely rule out comedy

Uncanny !!

Oh god now he thinks I am engaging with him - he will take the attention from anywhere;he cannot even be trusted to stick to his word and ignore me.
Uncanny !!

So what does THM do in the real world, then?

The few bits I can remember that I have seen over the years he claimed to be prepping children for eton entrance exams, Teaching economics at a high level, be involved with getting visas for over seas workers for his multinational finance co and at least one more. Ie A Walt

Blimey TJ that’s almost all true - a NY resolution?

The few bits I can remember that I have seen over the years he claimed to be prepping children for eton entrance exams

Ok not a full house. But when you claimed that intelligence had nothing to do with Eton entrance and played the false family card, I did post some copies of Eton entrance papers to illustrate just how wrong you were - not that that was a surprise

Teaching economics at a high level

True-Ish if you consider Cambridge Pre U and AS levels as high level - more intermediate to me. But 100% A and A*

be involved with getting visas for over seas workers for his multinational finance co

100% true and recent

Getting better. Keep it up

So what do you do, THM?

Or is it 'classified'?

Do I need to be glad you won't tell me - as then you'd have to kill me, obviously.

Or a Walt?

John Elliot MBE, manufacturer of white goods talking about Brexit on R4. At 2 mins in his opinion you should not have immigration to the UK from countries that are different as "Romanians are more highly motivated than British workers and they distort the market."

Brexit is Britain's shame. We look to be giving up membership of possibly the worlds most successful trading bloc because millions of Britains don't want foreigners coming here to work. In other words free movement of workers was a price too high to be a member of the club for many. People can BS up other reasons but that is it in the main.

So ninfan thinks Britain gets Europe's dregs rather than its best and uses a headline he read about a Lithuanian murderer that came here to murder again as an example. At least they are not Mexican though. Mexico's worst are all in America.

I know and work alongside many so called dregs from Eastern Europe. They are surveyors, nurses, hospital cleaners, classroom assistants, hotel receptionists, waste pickers at recycling facilities, kitchen hands at McDonald's.

The galling thing is that it is the older generation that voted for Brexit, where as my generation and younger will be the ones in a queue alongside these 'dregs' for a hospital bed. My children will be in a cramped classrooms with theirs competing for school places. I compete in the jobs market with those from Eastern Europe and still voted to remain as I enjoy working with those that are highly motivated, although this scares the likes of John Elliot MBE.

My FIL voted for Brexit despite having a daughter in law from France. She would unlikely have met and married his son and given him 2 grandchildren had she not had the right to travel and work here unrestricted.

I hoped my children would have that right also, however Farage and his "open door" to 300 million speech, posturing in front of posters of refugees, and talk of 60 million Turks imminently scaling the White Cliffs of Dover to ravage Dame Vera Lynn, have put pay to that.

Also, listening to the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg when he talks of patriotism makes me want to vomit. People questioning the backward step we are taking are unpatriotic. Since when does he decide what is deemed patriotic or not?

Some Tories now want us to build a Brittania II paid for by a lottery, so that Admiral May and Able Seamen Johnson, can cold call countries seeking trade, like a modern day Captain Cook, swapping epalettes for coconuts. We don't need a successful European trading partner on our doorstep when we can steam to the likes of Rhodesia, Ceylon, USSR, Burma, Dutch East Indies, and Abyssinia to create new deals.

I however, don't think that we will be stuck in a country of lower motivated workers for ever. The EU has faults, however few can argue that it is a success, both economically and in bringing people together from different backgrounds, and will continue to do so. When the older generation of Brexiteers start dieing off, younger people will want back in to the EU. Britain's shame can be corrected in 15 or 20 years time and people that voted to stay in the EU will be shown to be on the right side of history.