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MPs have defeated the government and voted to prevent a future prime minister from suspending parliament in order to force through a no-deal Brexit. They voted 315-274 - a thrashing defeat for the government.
They voted 315-274
Do these traitors not understand democracy?
The vote included government ministers abstaining, apparently.
Does this mark the point where some Tory Remainers have actually developed a spine?
Their was a journalist last week (from the Spectator, I think) advocating an interesting theory as to why all these Tory MP's who despise Boris are now supporting him. They will now set about making sure that there is absolutely no way on earth he can deliver the no deal/moon-on-a-stick Brexit he's promised. So his attempt will fail miserably at the first hurdle, the angry gammons will turn on him and he will be ritually humiliated and turfed out as the shortest serving PM in political history. A lot of them are apparently relishing this prospect.
Just in case you were labouring under the misapprehension that we're not all just pawns in some posh boys parlour games
Heard Jeremy Hunt on R4 this morning suggesting, amongst other things, that if we leave with no-deal, it’s somehow the EU’s fault . . . .
Indeed - apparently they are forcing us to be poorer. It's like the caricature wife beater saying "she made me do it". I think we can look forward to a lot more of this as the consequences of Brexit emerge. My first thought was "nobody could be so stupid as to believe that", but then I thought again ...
315-274
53% to 47% so is that to be respected like 2016 or not respected like the result of the confirmation of the new EU president ?
Bring on the snap election when Johnson comes back with no amendment to the deal.
53% to 47% so is that to be respected like 2016 or not respected like the result of the confirmation of the new EU president ?
😀 True, true 🤔
She secured 383 votes to 327 against, said David Sassoli, speaker of the assembly. The threshold was 374.
With 52% support, von der Leyen’s victory margin was in line with recent trends. Current Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker received 56% while his predecessor Jose Manuel Barroso had 52% for his second mandate and 56% for his first term.
That is a "great" margin? 😂
Let’s see if Johnson can get more than 53.9% of the votes cast when our MPs have their confidence vote. May managed 51.5% last time.
On a lighter note. If anyone has a hour to kill and is interested, here is a podcast/pubcast made by Graham Hughes on Tuesday asking about how British farming can survive a No Deal Brexit. I'll give you one guess who the friendly Welsh farmer is he is interviewing 🙂
How did each of the front benches vote on this bid to keep Parliament semi-open on the run up to Brexit?
apparently the EU banned the use of newspapers to wrap up fish n’ chips and she doesn’t like the fact that they do not taste/smell the same anymore
If she remembers fish and chips actually wrapped in newspaper (directly as opposed to just the outer wrapper) she must be about 150 years old, that legislation dates back to the 19th Century. And, of course, it's the square root of **** all to do with the EU. If she wants her chips wrapping in newspaper there's nothing to stop her taking her own copy of the Daily Express and doing it herself.
I’ll give you one guess who the friendly Welsh farmer is he is interviewing
Hah, how cool. I'll watch that later, cheers.
They will now set about making sure that there is absolutely no way on earth he can deliver the no deal/moon-on-a-stick Brexit he’s promised. So his attempt will fail miserably at the first hurdle, the angry gammons will turn on him and he will be ritually humiliated and turfed out as the shortest serving PM in political history. A lot of them are apparently relishing this prospect.
Just in case you were labouring under the misapprehension that we’re not all just pawns in some posh boys parlour games
If this is true, and their intention is to do that ****’s legs and completely **** him over, then on this occasion I’m quite happy to be a pawn in their game.
I think Boris as a PM is the quickest way to a Brexit cancelation.
He is going to make suck a mess of it, it will have to be canceled.
I think Boris as a PM is the quickest way to a Brexit cancelation.
He is going to make suck a mess of it, it will have to be canceled.
This was sort of thing I was hoping for with Trump, Give him enough rope and he’d hang himself before he really made a mess of everything he could. As a way for the world not to see he was actually lining the pockets of him and his mates, unfortunately that’s not going to plan.
I worry that Boris will still be able to push through some crap or another, with no care for who or what it damages, just so he can get his moment in the sun...
Hope very much, that you are right and I am completely wrong.
think Boris as a PM is the quickest way to a Brexit cancelation.
He is going to make suck a mess of it, it will have to be canceled.
Quite possibly. I reckon he'll have no authority, have to call a GE, then Brexit and LD will take big chunks. We might end up with a remain coalition in power, or we might end up with a 2nd ref as a compromise which remain wins.
Boris may well come out of this smelling of roses. He's done all the Brexit posturing saying he's for it but will eventually kill Brexit and get plaudits from the other side as well.
I just hope we remain and he sinks without trace. We can all dream!
Boris may well come out of this smelling of roses. He’s done all the Brexit posturing saying he’s for it but will eventually kill Brexit and get plaudits from the other side as well.
I think he'll get through it more or less unscathed. Ultimately he'll blame everyone and everything else - the EU, remoaners, the wrong type of leavers, the Irish, Labour... and he'll get a cushy ride through the right wing press about how he was thwarted and how democracy has been overturned and people will buy his particular brand of bluffing bullshit.
He has done the usual classic though of painting himself into a corner before he's even started - bit like May's red lines before she even went into the negotiating room. He's promised to deliver Brexit come what may, put forward the option of No Deal, of shutting down Parliament (now largely averted) so he's sort of stuck. Whatever he does now will be seen as a failure so he'll have to blame everyone else.
the wrong type of leavers
chapeau
the wrong type of leavers
Isn't that the definition of Chris Grayling?
Something I’ve warned about in this thread over the past few years (and one of many reasons that I suspect we simply are not ready to leave on no deal terms in the autumn, no matter who is PM)…
The taxman's £226.33m Customs Declaration Service, responsible for delivering exports and imports processing, was also flagged as amber/red due to IT testing issues.
CDS will replace the Customs Handling of Import and Export Freight service (CHIEF), however concerns about the project have been repeatedly raised due to the tight deadline imposed by Brexit – currently expected to take place on 31 October this year.
There’s also stuff in there about the complications caused by preparation for whatever the hell is supposed to happen as regards VAT when selling into the EU after we leave (whatever way we leave).
Yeah, yeah, yeah... whatever...
it'll all be worth it when we can eat fish and chips out of newspaper again
A great thread on chocolate … for those that care about the details …
https://twitter.com/chrischilton64/status/1151759606139543554?s=21
But...
Hang on...
That would indicate that Boris isn't telling the whole truth...?
CDS will replace the Customs Handling of Import and Export Freight service (CHIEF), however concerns about the project have been repeatedly raised due to the tight deadline imposed by Brexit – currently expected to take place on 31 October this year.
The project to replace CHIEF started at least 15 years ago...
The bus Boris thinks he's going to inherit on Wednesday;
The actual bus he's getting;
He's a genetic mix up between an abandoned, racist sofa and a lying sack of shit.
Which is why he appeals to Tories and racists.
The project to replace CHIEF started at least 15 years ago…
Yes, and the decision was taken not to update CHIEF to include rEU codes for Brexit contingency, because CDS was coming… despite warnings that it would not be ready for March (both the IT system, and all that the roll out concerns). Roll out now won’t be complete by October… and that’s a fact now, not a warning.
And as for these things always taking far longer than expected here… the EU and Ireland knows this, hence an open ended backstop, rather than relying on alternative arrangements being agreed and implemented within any specified time span.
speechless everybody?
Its democracy...
I'm clinging to the faint hope Boris will make such a mess if this parliment will finally wake up and stop the madness. With Hunt there was a real chance a dodgy deal would have been done. I think with Johnson in charge there is less chance of us leaving on Halloween.
stumpyjohn, you've exactly echoed my feelings - I'm desperately hoping that BJ makes such an ungodly hash of things that sense may prevail...
Bring on the General Election for more entertainment ...
It's like a Rubik's cube just made of turds, whichever way you twist it it's still a turd;
US President Donald Trump has said talks about a "very substantial" trade deal with the UK are under way. BBC
Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the US House of Representatives, has warned Boris Johnson’s government that Congress would not endorse a trade deal if the Belfast Agreement was jeopardised by Brexit.Irish Times
Is it just my cynical part that thinks Labour are happy with Corbyn in charge bumbling about knowing they won't be voted in also knowing Brexit is going to be the mother of all F-ups. So when it all goes badly south they can turn round in the future and blame the whole mess on the Tories.
https://www.indy100.com/article/po-cruise-ship-britannia-fight-britain-norway-9023491
lovely people, I wonder which way they voted?
Is it just my cynical part that thinks Labour are happy with Corbyn in charge bumbling about knowing they won’t be voted in also knowing Brexit is going to be the mother of all F-ups. So when it all goes badly south they can turn round in the future and blame the whole mess on the Tories.
Yep.. Just like the tories they simply want to be in power, they don't care about the people.
The current situation suits the Labour Party down to the ground, they are sitting back and letting the tories own the mess.
Child poverty grants given to the UK by the EU are being returned as UK government didn't know how to spend them. 😂😂
The current situation suits the Labour Party down to the ground, they are sitting back and letting the tories own the mess.
Yep and for Corbyn it has the bonus that we would have left the EU so he doesn't have to take the blame for something he actually wants. Very good scenario for a Labour Brexiter.
cchris2lou
Member
Child poverty grants given to the UK by the EU are being returned as UK government didn’t know how to spend them. 😂😂
Don't know how to, or don't want to?
#cynical
Many EU grants are on the basis of matched funding. I'm guessing the UK Govt simply didn't want to spend any of its own money.
Interesting wording. I think, when comparing desirable outcomes, not using the words “Remaining” or “Brexit”, “Stay” or “Leave”, would be useful for discovering what people want, rather than their gut allegiances to a nebulous cause.
Say:
“Supportive of participating in the Single Market”
“Supportive of the right to access medical services across Europe”
“Supportive of prioritising trade with the USA over trade with other countries”
Etc
Anyway… plans to close a car plant aren’t even news these days. The steady slide towards the end of our largest exporting manufacturing sector is just taken as a given by those who prefer tub thumbing to seeking to keep skilled jobs in the UK for people who have never even been near Eton or Cambridge or Oxford. My thoughts are with the workers of Ellesmere Port, and their families.
keep skilled jobs in the UK
I hate to break it to you but the people who exist outside of shithole Britain are equally if not far more skilled and some don't entitle themselves because they are british.
Just sayin
Even if Britain produced electric cars that were the best in the world the board of the company would only sell off the IP to the highest bidder lining their own pension pot/pocket, that's providing they hadn't sold the company to keep it afloat to the Indians!!
Bye Britain
I see raab, Patel etc are on a media blitz to sell Brexit again, usual lies about controling immigration & stepping up the 'blame the EU' rhetoric
It's all so utterly predictable
Jesus wept. It’ll be carnage
Just tripped over this. It's a list of the trade deals we've agreed to in principle post-brexit so far. (Of course, many are deals we already have...)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-47213842
Err, the pound has just collapsed worse than it did immediately after the referendum result😬
Still some major trigger events to occur over the next 18 months. Some of those are already priced in, but I still think we’re very likely to end up 1:1 with the “failing” falling Euro in that time. And as last week you only got 1:1 when exchanging cash or on card transactions, this will mean getting less that 1 Euro to the pound for us down at the bottom of the social orders. I’m on our first holiday abroad since the Referendum summer, and I’m utterly knocked back at how little your British money now gets you in France. Everything seems super pricey already…
Some of the comments on the BBC News website are priceless - 'low pound helps our exports so is a massive positive!'. If only we didn't have to buy the raw materials from those dastardly foreigners...
These are the self same people who want to leave the EU because they've been predicting for the last 20 years that the Euro is about to crash, yes?
Unite people talking tough about their members at Ellesmere Port… remind me where the leader of Unite stands on Brexit?
Could someone remind me what currency crude oil is traded in please?
Same as most things, from bike components to medicines.
Crude oil is traded in bike components?
We’ll be bartering with rat meat and shiny beads by the time these ****s have finished!
It’s clear that ‘career psychopath’ Dominic Cummings is calling the shots
Raab is ‘on message’ for this financially suicidal lunacy
It’s utter madness!
I can't quite fathom how we've gone from there being no downsides to Brexit, only considerable upsides [David Davis, Oct 2016] and how the trade deals we do will be the easiest in human history and able to be implemented within a year or so to now spending £100 million (presumably from the Magic Money Tree) on warning people and businesses of a no-deal.
Surely the "warnings" about something with only considerable upsides should be to remind everyone to sort out our unicorn parking facilities and ensure we've got space for the vast array of freely traded products that we're now able to buy that we had no access to before?
I want to see who caves first. Boris (with his promise to leave on 31st October come what may), Parliament (who have said they won't allow a no-deal Brexit) or the EU (who have said there won't be any more negotiation).
Shame it'll destroy the country before it's resolved.
A successful cross party VONC in the government is the only way I can see we'll ever get out of this mess.
Basically it's up to jezza, and he's just as bat shit as the tories are.
I'm just loving* the arrogance of Boris saying that he will not meet EU leaders until they rip up the withdrawal agreement. Not only does it show him to be an appalling statesman with zero grasp of how to interact with other world leaders, but I do wonder what he genuinely hopes to achieve. I mean, is this really the best force he can put on the EU?
* denotes sarcasm. Not loving it at all.
the arrogance of Boris saying that he will not meet EU leaders until they rip up the withdrawal agreement. Not only does it show him to be an appalling statesman with zero grasp of how to interact with other world leaders,
It's more for the domestic audience? I wonder if it's a Cummings strategy that will be stuck to by all
the pound continues it's slide, even with his "we hold our hand out" bolloxs.
Willard - the aim is to transfer blame to the EU for being intransigent
If you've not watched it yet then I'd recommend watching the Great Hack on Netflix. Its eye-opening, if not in the least surprising.
It explains a lot about how we got into this mess, and where we're headed. The usual suspects all pop up. Aaron Banks, Farage, Steve Bannon, Andy Wigmore, Dominic Cummings, Cambridge Analytica.
It explains the mindset of this disaster capitalist cabal. Steve Bannons philosophy is that to conduct permanent change to a system, first, you have to break it. Then you rebuild it in your own image
That's why Johnson has brought in the same people who won the leave campaign into number ten. They want to make sure they really do break it, which a no-deal will certainly do.
Whats deeply worrying is that you just know that they're about to call an election against a flailing and clueless labour party, so they can get a mandate to drive through no deal. They'll be using the same dodgy Cambridge Analytica style tactics, and employing the same outriders (Farage, et al) to say the things they legally can't. All with the same dodgy funding and the support of rabidly anti-EU fellow travellers in the press
We are truly ****ed!
the aim is to transfer blame to the EU for being intransigent
Yep, when the “sunlit uplands” turn out to be be bunkum [Who knew?] and the pain of Brexit kicks in, it’ll be their* fault.
* EU
* Heads of foreign governments
* Unbelievers
* Any MPs still prepared to speak truth
What I hadn't known until last night, and somone please correct me if I have this wrong, is that an agreement reached under article 50 requires only majority agreement from EU. Once article 50 is complete/finished/terminated, whatever, any subsequent agreement requires unanimity. I wonder if this would make it more difficult to get agreement, or less...
`I presume that last line is a rhetorical question? A full long term trade deal will take years… the Withdrawal Agreement is just supposed to bridge both sides over that period. That’s the basics. Unless you’re Raab of course… who is trying to claim it’ll be easier to get a trade deal immediately after the A50 is period is over, and we’re* desperate for something quick.
* Farmers
* NHS
* Car industry (remains of)
* Hauliers
* Importers
* Exporters
* People living in the UK
* People living on the island of Ireland
* Especially anyone who’s in two or more of the above groups
tjagain
Member
Willard – the aim is to transfer blame to the EU for being intransigent
Yeah TJ, that point is being well and truly driven home now, even if I had not already guessed it thanks to kippers earlier this month (and before).
An alternative take on the Boris/Nicola meeting
An interesting read.
Cougar - haven't we had enough of experts?
Coming in here with their years of experience, giving their informed views and explanations...
The Brecon byelection looks set to be a lib dem landslide thanks to the greens and plaid stepping aside.
That would bring the tories majority down to 1MP.. Remembering 10 tory votes are just DUP.
That sets the stage for a VONC from Labour.. If magic grandad pulls his finger out we could have a GE and a completely hung parliament...
I suppose the prospect of a GE would at least prevent crash out in October, but then what?
Lib-green-plaid could probably muster the numbers for a majority coalition?
The tories seem to hate the brexit party but I suppose we can't rule out a deal there either..
Lib Dems unders swinson will only do deals with the tories - thats pretty clear. they have moved to where the tories were 20 years ago.
Lib-green-plaid could probably muster the numbers for a majority coalition?
I think LD-Green-Plaid-SNP could based on remain, given the Brexit Party has taken both Labour and Tory votes. Seems a bit of a stretch though? Are we actually allowed rainbow coalitions like that?
Lib Dems unders swinson will only do deals with the tories – thats pretty clear. they have moved to where the tories were 20 years ago.
Errm the lib dems have, unsurprisingly, explicitly rulled out a partnership with the tories.
I can't imagine why, lol!
They've also suggested a deal with labour is pretty much impossible too.
I can't imagine why! Lol!
Also it's quite refreshing a party having a clear defined stance! Donchathink?
I think LD-Green-Plaid-SNP could based on remain, given the Brexit Party has taken both Labour and Tory votes. Seems a bit of a stretch though? Are we actually allowed rainbow coalitions like that?
It would be unprecedented.. But unpecidented things are hardly news these days.. I'm not aware of any reason it's not allowed.
Although I can't see the SNP getting on board.
Lib dems and Greens alone might have the numbers, plaid would be a bonus.
Remember all 3 of those parties are already working together, and not standing strategically so as not to split the remain vote in contested areas.
Expect similar tactics of a GE is called.
Also it’s quite refreshing a party having a clear defined stance! Donchathink?
Yeah like the Libdems stance on tutition fees. So clear they put it in print.
FFsake Klunk, give that one a rest will you?, if that is all you can interpret from the coalition and a deciding matter then you are being very selective, Off the top of my head I could name quite a few very effective areas where the Lib Dem's reined in the Tories plans.
I suppose the prospect of a GE would at least prevent crash out in October, but then what?
But would it? If a GE is called and parliament dissolved prior to Oct 31st do we just crash out before a new government is in place?
Are we actually allowed rainbow coalitions like that?
Why not?
if that is all you can interpret from the coalition and a deciding matter then you are being very selective,
Who mentioned the coalition ? It's a matter of whether you can trust what politicians say. It proves the Libdems Torylight are no more trust worthy than the next party.
But would it? If a GE is called and parliament dissolved prior to Oct 31st do we just crash out before a new government is in place?
Well we'd be relying on the good faith of the EU, they have repeatedly said a GE or a ref2 would put things on hold, so in theory we'd get another extension (sorry, miss! The dog ate my homework). It's not in thier interests either for us to crash out, and the EU had repeatedly demonstrated that they are pragmatic and that they don't go back on what they say, as they've already considered and collectively agreed what they will do, in contrast to the UK which appears to be dancing the political funky chicken.