[quote=ninfan ]No, as pointed out it’s an officialy published government statistic which was presented in a way that some people found to be misleading without additional information
No, it isn't, it's a lie. Nowhere in the official statistics does it say that we send £350m a week to the EU, because we don't.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point out that you're lying again though.
Ninfan - are you suggesting then like Switzerland we keep all EU regs then? How are you going to stop migration over an open border?
DD, apologies but still trying to get by head round this badly!
is this right?
Níl sé Eire ach ta sé Éire??
lying
I’m sure the mods will be running along to crack down on such an egregious personal insult aracer, you know, to prove that they apply rules consistently
Nowhere in the official statistics does it say that we send £350m a week to the EU
As already detailed, yes, it does, it’s officially recorded as an transaction. Stop lying
Because I’ve sucessfully exported goods both into and out of the EU, across a land border, without a problem.
A boot full of Semtex and a crate of AK-47's?
A body on the way to be buried in a shallow grave on the moors?
A 'hard border' in Ireland isn't just about checking the paperwork on the milk deliveries
There's just a little bit of history, and a whole world of symbolism
Well done on demonstrating an equal understanding of the issue to Theresa's 😆
Good Friday agreement for Ninfan:
(ii) the removal of
security installations;
This is the paragraph that the Tories have failed to honour in entering a pact with the DUP. You can't pander to the DUP and claim to be imparatial, and that the NI assembly is acting impartially. The British government is overiding the NI assembly at the behest of the DUP.
(v) affirm that whatever choice is fr
eely exercised by a majority of the
people of Northern Ireland, the power
of the sovereign government with
jurisdiction there shall be exercised w
ith rigorous impartiality on behalf of
all the people in the diversity of their
identities and traditions and shall be
founded on the principles of full resp
ect for, and equality of, civil,
political, social and cultural rights, of
freedom from discrimination for all
citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the
identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities;
I read the full text after an interview with Kelly on TV a few months back. The concerns he expressed with regard to non-compliance with the agreement as a result of Brexit are legitimate.
tjagain - MemberNinfan - are you suggesting then like Switzerland we keep all EU regs then? How are you going to stop migration over an open border?
The border solution in Switzerland appears to be acceptable to the EU
with full customs checks in place. Spot checks to make sure cars aren't carrying illegal goods (food!)
Because I’ve sucessfully exported goods both into and out of the EU, across a land border, without a problem.
So you're an expert in it all now then?
Troll, troll, troll, troll, troll… wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have government ministers repeating the same lie.
Nowhere in the official statistics does it say that we send £350m a week to the EU
The truth is rarely as simple as this. But It is simple this time. This is the truth.
We do not send £350 million per a week to the EU (yet).
ninfan - MemberAs already detailed, yes, it does, it’s officially recorded as an transaction. Stop lying
It isn't and can't be for a number of reasons:
1. we're actually supposed to pay ~£360m per week, so £350m can;t be recorded as a transaction.
2. To be a transaction, that amount of money to be transacted would have to be officially recorded and sent on a specific date. Given that the rebate is applied automatically to each payment made to the EU and that the actual amount (in 2016) is ~£242m, how can this be
?officially recorded as an transaction
Of course we send €350m to the EU, each week!
Borris Johnson personally delivers caseloads of €100 notes to Brussels every Thursday 😕
You see that's the problem with giant lies written on a bus, even now some people actually believe it *
* either that or just enjoy trolling people on stw !
(ii) the removal of security installations;
You get the difference between security installations and (ieven if you used them) border checkpoints, right?
To be a transaction, that amount of money to be transacted would have to be officially recorded
Would it perchance be officially recorded as a debit on the published list of official transactions between the U.K. and the institutions of the EU?
If you look a couple of pages back, you’ll find that it is. Hope that helps.
[quote=ninfan ]
lying
I’m sure the mods will be running along to crack down on such an egregious personal insult aracer, you know, to prove that they apply rules consistently
Why, have you reported it? 😆 It's not a personal insult at all, simply a factual statement - you said something which was a lie, therefore you were lying. I'm making no implication at all there about your character, people are free to make up their own minds about that based upon the available evidence.
Nowhere in the official statistics does it say that we send £350m a week to the EU
As already detailed, yes, it does, it’s officially recorded as an transaction. Stop lying
I'm not lying. That is a lie. You're good at this aren't you?
You still don't seem to understand accounts - the appearance of a figure on them doesn't imply a transaction. As I asked earlier using your analogy, does the gross figure on your payslip mean that there has been a transaction of that amount between your employer and your bank? (no, I'm not expecting an answer to that, I will enjoy watching you avoid the question though)
You still don't seem to understand accounts - the appearance of a figure on them doesn't imply a transaction
Then, as above, why did the government publish it as a transaction? 😆
Kimbers - I very much doubt they will get a deal unless they cave in to everything
While I have the utmost faith in Theresa May & her clueless Brexiter colleagues to completely **** things up, at some point the EU will take pity on us and throw us some trifles dressed up as a deal of sorts.
The brexies, even the DUP know that if they blow out Labour are laughing, so fear will keep them in line even if it means huge concessions, as I said they were always gonna have to face the real world at some point.
[quote=ninfan ]Then, as above, why did the government publish i5 as a transaction
cite
What value was the transaction between your employer and your bank?
So ninfan's not Irish or Northern Irish, yet he reckons he has the simple solution whereas people actually from the affected areas don't?
I also have a simple solution. Its just that the Mencken misquote applies
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"
Although mine does have the advantage of being more likely to annoy the DUP. Which given the bung they took to influence brexit is well worth it.
Want to answer Ninfan?
tjagain - MemberNinfan - are you suggesting then like Switzerland we keep all EU regs then? How are you going to stop migration over an open border?
Aracer - stop flogging a dead horse
cite
See the pink book - read the title and weep.
[img] 
[/img]
Also published on tab 9.9 of the pink book by ONS here:
[quote=tjagain ]Aracer - stop flogging a dead horse
Don't be rude about ninfan like that.
The border solution in Switzerland appears to be acceptable to the EU
The fact that Switzerland is surrounded by EU countries for all intents and purposes makes things somewhat different.
Plus that they effectively accept EU law is another stumbling block. Cant see the "regain sovereignty" lot being happy with that.
[quote=ninfan ]See the pink book
😆 - I note the negative "transactions" on there and the total "transactions" on there - hint, just because it says "transactions" at the top doesn't make every figure on there a transaction! You still don't seem to understand accounting.
Níl sé Éire ach tá sé Éire
I get the difference between "border" and "security" checkpoints, Ninfan, but in the context of NI I don't think you can make that distinction. Any kind of check at the border will be seen as both. You only have to ask to see ID and it is effectively both.
Ninfan
You tell me why it has to be any more difficult than the border between Switzerland and France, go on, you tell me.
I’ve crossed that border a couple of dozen times, never had to stop once, even on the main roads never mind the back roads
We drove from Italy into Switzerland, and then a day later from Switzerland into France in June this year. We were stopped and questioned at Gondo on the way in (who were we, where had we been, how long had we been there, where were we going, why?) and then leaving Switzerland the next day at La Cure we got the same thing. Not in a white van = guaranteed stop and search I'd say, we saw major operations in both France and Italy this year where vans were being brought into Aires to be rigorously searched. Driving a less than 6 month old medium sized German "prestige" estate car...
will be seen as
Ah, will be seen as... right.
Like those infamous hard borders between The EU and Lichtenstein
Ninfan - care to answer?
Ninfan - are you suggesting then like Switzerland we keep all EU regs then? How are you going to stop migration over an open border?
Foster refusing to meet with May today
when the Tories **** up, they do it in style !
My most pressing concern about brexit is will I need a visa for travelling to races ? 🙂
Like those infamous hard borders between The EU and Lichtenstein
That would be Lichtenstein who are part of the Schengen Area and the EEA and have to apply relevant EU laws.
So just like Switzerland. How do you think that will go down with the "regain sovereignty" lot.
And again ninfan manages to derail discussions on 2 fronts by arguing over semantics and his deliberate misreading of accounts.
If solutions were so simple we would have got there by now. Either that or the government is refusing to implement them. Which is it and why have we wasted all this time.
Simply not true, customs do spot checks, as in the video above
If you read the comments below the video you posted you'd know that
A ) what they are doing is a VRT (Vehicle Registration Tax) check not "customs", they are pulling northern reg cars with Irish insurance discs.
B ) everyone was mightily pissed off about it
Hello ninfan - care to answer my question?
ninfan - Member
Ninfan - border solutions that are actually practical and will be acceptable to all parties
The border solution in Switzerland appears to be acceptable to the EU
You do know that Switzerland is effectively in the CU and single market, right? (albeit by virtue of some horribly complex rules that neither they nor EU like, but they had to do it that way because of their political system and needing to have referendums on everything)
[TJ, not your dancing monkey... I ought to just leave you screaming for attention, as I’ve been busy answering far more interesting posts than yours.
However
Switzerland hasn’t adopted all EU regs,
see here: https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/
[i]The Swiss relationship with the EU is different to Norway’s.
It’s also got a trading relationship through the European Free Trade Association, without being part of the European Economic Area.
This also involves taking on EU laws. But instead of laws constantly flowing into its legal system, [u]it negotiates new treaties or amends old ones in return for access to the single market and other EU activities.[/u] Some of the important treaties are linked, so that if Switzerland or the EU pulls out of one, the others also collapse.
This system means that Switzerland doesn’t formally lack control over its own laws.[/i]
Happy now?
How are you going to stop migration over an open border?
like at present?
[i]You do not need to have a passport in order to enter the other country. However, all air and sea carriers require some form of identification and some regard a passport as the only valid identification. Immigration authorities may also require you to have valid official photo-identification which shows your nationality. As you are being asked to prove that you are an Irish or UK citizen who is entitled to avail of the Common Travel Area arrangements, it is advisable to travel with your passport.[/i]
Or would you call that a “hard border”?
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone backed into so many corners at once as ninfan!
It is a perfect metaphor for the 'negotiations' as a whole (and I cannot even conceive of a time when I won't be using quotation marks around the word 'negotiations').
The 'negotiations' really are nothing of the sort. They are merely window dressing for a humiliating climb down by the UK. A climb-down that May can't sell to the nasties in her own party.
If a cliff edge Brexit is really on the cards there will be a second referendum - only the real lunatics would want to turn the UK into economic scorched earth out of spite.
It is irreconcilable and it would save an awful lot of bother if we just asked Barnier et al really nicely if they will take us 'back'.
How are you going to stop migration over an open border?
We don't need to. Migration isn't a problem anymore.
342k people are leaving every year.
Let's take the money saved on border security and spend it on our NHS instead. 😉
Ruthy Tank Commander wades into battle
https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/937972391577341952
The tory order of priority seems to be Self > Party > Country
Ninfan - so no answers then. There is not a hard border between the republic and the UK as we are both in the EU.
How are you going to stop migration fromn the EU to the UK across an open border?
That would be Lichtenstein who are part of the Schengen Area
I fail to see the relevance of Schengen area to the U.K./Ireland border situation 😆
There is not a hard border between the republic and the UK [u]as we are both in the EU[/u]
Because we joined the EU in 1923 I presume?
[img] 
[/img]
The SNP’s Peter Grant says Theresa May is today being interviewed for the job of Scotland football manager because of her ability “to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory”.
Switzerland hasn’t adopted all EU regs,
No one said that they do. Instead people were addressing your claim about the border between Switzerland and the EU. The point is to play they have had to accept plenty of laws without any say in making those laws.
So how do you think the "regain sovereignty" lot will handle that?
Also published on tab 9.9 of the pink book by ONS here:
Well I've done a search on that page and can't find 350 anywhere.
