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igm - second referendum needed to legitimise this
the leavers know they would lose a second referendum hence the panicing and blustering
I dont think it is that simple/straightforward though it is certainly what the brexiters would want/hope/argue for.The right question to ask is what happens if a bill doesn't pass, which would be we would leave the EU without a deal - that horse has already bolted - and no EU law would be brought into UK law which is the main purpose of the bill.
Any miraid of options are available at this point but your point only holds true if the beaten govt [ or the parliamentarians who have a majority do nothing., Whilst this is also possible it not the certainty you seem to suggest. A lack of a parliamentary majority is certainly a powerful blow against taking back control and claiming its the will of the people
A mess whit a GE and a ref are the most likely IMHO though much would depend on whether the EU was interested in A50 being rescinded...ie is there any point to pursuing that sort of angle.
Now having disagreed with Mefty and THM, I’m going to disagree with TJ.
No more blinking referendums. At least not on things that matter. Feel free to do it on who should win Strictly.
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And while I’m on a roll, another blinking thing. Stop front stalking me THM. I’ll look at the bike threads I think, spend some time away from the political ones, road bikes... hmmm... thinking about a new one new spring/summer... Cervelo? Interesting, not as expensive as I though either... wait a minute who started the flipping thread?
Sorry IGM - neither main party supports a second referendum and remember Jezza has conviction.plus it’s happening
At this rate, proper negotiations may we’ll have started by Jan
Phew
Yes was shocked about cervelos too!
Need to decide on brakes early. Disc or normal?????
Just revoke A50. Legal opinion allegedly says that’s doable.
And the government withdraws the bill, governments can always avoid defeat that is the fundamental problem and they control the parliamentary timetable.
teamhurtmore - Member
Sorry IGM - neither main party supports a second referendum and remember Jezza has conviction.plus it’s happening
I don’t support a second referendum either.
Out of interest- what’s happening? Could be anything really.
In an advisory referendum that I just made up, 52% of those who voiced an opinion said discs. Especially if you’re a bit well upholstered like me.
IGM - a second referendum is needed IMO to prevent the xenophobic press giving it large with the" antidemocrats going agaisnt the will of the people" piffle
You WILL keep voting until you do what Europe wants.
It is the way.
Next up four regions will seek to impose their will on others too!!
You WILL keep voting until you do what Europe wants.
You keep coming out with this.
Lets see what Saint Farage said shall we?
Oh no he rapidly changed his mind and erased it from history when the exact percentages he came out with did happen but in reverse. At which point he suddenly decided the people had spoken and should only be allowed to speak once.
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships who did the vote once and thats it approach. Why do you support it?
Its hilarious seeing people try to justify a and once and forever vote.
the conditions have changed. What people were told they were voting for ( an many sensible people knew was bogus) is now shown to be impossible.
The reason the outies don't want another referendum is they know they would lose and lose heavily. Nothing to do with democracy from the outies. everything to do with their desire to turn us into a low wage low regulation tax haven
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships who did the vote once and thats it approach. Why do you support it?
You shouldn't be so unkind about our SNP supporting cousins.
and we will be able to watch you do after the next one if you win it and it happens.Its hilarious seeing people try to justify a and once and forever vote.
That wouldn't be a once and forever would it?
Oh look - more whataboutery about scotland - you can tell when someones lost an argument.
t
I don't support a second referendum either. We had a big opinion poll in June last year, that's all.
Anything else is noise. Let's just get on and try to run the country in a constructive manner for once, eh? I'm sure that notion isn't even beyond May if she actually put her mind to it.
teamhurtmore - Member
You WILL keep voting until you do what Europe wants
Oh come off it.
The uninformed tabloid reading public were mislead. That is crystal clear. Enough mislead to swing an advisory referendum result.
We know who bankrolls the tabloids and why they are doing it, and we know thier links with British politicians.
To carry that crap through to destruction of the country is beyond criminal, it's evil.
And the poor sods that voted for it are too proud to admit they voted without having any real idea about the ramifications.
I recently met a British ex pat in Spain, who agreed with brexit.. I didn't take measurements, but I'd guess his arms are longer than his legs, and he was wearing an English football shirt.
You shouldn't be so unkind about our SNP supporting cousins.
Want to put money on it?
Maybot did get a nice hug off Junker & a big hug for Davis
It's love !
matty - and the polls show that there would be a a remain majority - thats why these right wingers ( who want a destruction of workers rights) are running scared of a second referendum
I don't like the idea either - but its the only way to spike the guns of the xenophobic press
Oh look - May got zero in her paniced crisis talks attempt
Theresa May’s last-ditch attempt to persuade European leaders to open talks on a transition period look doomed to fail as Downing Street appeared to rule out fresh concessions on the UK’s divorce bill and Brussels hardened its approach days away from a crunch summit.
I don't like the idea either - but its the only way to spike the guns of the xenophobic press
Well, it's not really. We could always pass stronger laws demanding accuracy in reporting and outlawing hate-mongering.
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
What next in the crass excuses - people were not intelligent enough to read the press properly. They will be posting links to their favourite rags to prove (false) points next
And this comes from folk who were perfectly to be happy to be lied to by the Gnats who were very ill prepared and didn’t even know what currency to use! The hypocrisy is breathtaking, except for the obvious fact re who is saying what 😉
Well, it's not really. We could always pass stronger laws demanding accuracy in reporting and outlawing hate-mongering.
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships that try to shackle the press.
Zokes we could then apply it here and half the posts would disappear and we would all lose out in the laughs
Much better for people to be allowed to show themselves up as purveyors of BS
Well, it's not really. We could always pass stronger laws demanding accuracy in reporting and outlawing hate-mongering.
I agree completely, freedom of speech is crucial.
Those who take that to the extreme though, those who seek to manipulate large audiences knowing full well it's not true, that's not free speech.
That's manipulation of people who are less informed. You could call it psychological abuse.
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
And boom remoaner is dead now it undemocratic, read the T&C's before complaining. Parliament can review this democratically, governments can be removed and directions changed. That is democratic so take the lame trolls somewhere else or read up a little more on democracy.
The tag team use that tactic on here nearly every day
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships that try to shackle the press.
That would look far better if the same person had made both statements.
As it is considering an equally effective tactic is to buy off press barons it fails.
It is an interesting issue how to ensure a free press but also ensure that the press owners have an interest in the country. Personally I would start with requiring them to be citizens of the relevant country. Soon find out how much they are willing to put their personal money where their media is.
Beware THM, you’re looking like half of tonight’s tag team.
Just sayin’
Incidentally the geometry on that Cervelo looks like the PX RT-58 sportive bike I have at the moment.
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
Whereas yours is to construct strawmen.
Personally I would start with requiring them to be citizens of the relevant country.
Do the Americans not require that? Not sure exactly how democratic they are but the didn’t used to be a dictatorship.
teamhurtmore -
So now the objective of the undemocrats is simply to get their own back on the press!!
I think, realistically, everyone would be happy if they just reported as objectively as possible.
Oddly enough looking through the history books its the proto dictatorships that try to shackle the press.
They don't typically do it by requesting more accurate reporting, though.
Beware THM, you’re looking like half of tonight’s tag team.
You should be working out how to get your bill to withdraw Article 50 through parliament.
They don't typically do it by requesting more accurate reporting, though.
I'm sure they think it is more accurate.
Mefty
A50 - they’ll sort that out themselves without my help.
Shutting down the press / accurate reporting - Agreed. See Donald “false news” Trump
So how do the talks advance?
Maybot can't afford the political capital to give away more cash for the exit deal- her Brexies & the rabid rw press would destroy her.
Germany & France won't progress talks unless she does....
Is it time to start turning the lawn into a veg patch as Grayling is now suggesting?
You can take action on the press if they are publishing false information, if they have misrepresented the government, we can publicly grill them on their behaviour and funding/editorial positions. The laws on retraction could be improved (same size as original article) some could be looked at for insighting also.
Doesn't have to go all Trump does it,
The beauty of this is most of the more accurate press wouldn't support the government....
How negotiations always proceed. Little steps and compromises
IGM! i would be honourec to be tagged with the Mefty rather than shamed to be tagged to people who make things up and more worrying might nit even realise
[hate sportive'/ geometry and feel BTW ]
A50 -they’ll sort that out themselves without my help.
How? This is a key point, which people fail to grasp. The government don't need the bill to take us out Our exit will be even more disorderly if it is not passed, but it will still happen.
I'm sure they think it is more accurate.
You think that, say, Goebbels saw himself as an honest chronicaler of his times?
Mefty - by MPs requiring it. Enough cross party support and it will happen. Either we're at cross purposes or you’re deliberately misunderstanding something.
THM - “hate sportive'/ geometry and feel BTW”. I know. You said. Which is why it surprised me when I checked the Cervelo’s stated geometry against my old man, bad back bike.
PS - THM, beware Mefty can be a bit barrack room lawyer at times. I mean not daft, but a bit know it all without creative thinking. On here that is. I wouldn’t know in real life.
You think that, say, Goebbels saw himself as an honest chronicaler of his times?
It is certainly possible, not something I have considered in detail, but he was a true believer.
by MPs requiring it. Enough cross party support and it will happen. Either we're at cross purposes or you’re deliberately misunderstanding something.
But they need to pass a law, if the government avoids the amendment by withdrawing their present bill, which they don't need to take us out. The remainers bill will not be on the Government's timetable, which I beleive means it can be talked out.
But they need to pass a law, if the government avoids the amendment by withdrawing their present bill, which they don't need to take us out.
The complete mess that will leave would have to force action from one side. Do you think the stuff that is being objected to is unreasonable?
The government could repair the damage with a new bill after we leave which would have retrospective effect so there is no gap. In practice, it won't come to pass, the power dynamic is such that reasonable amendments will be negotiated with the result that the Tories "rebels" will vote with the government.
How negotiations always proceed. Little steps and compromises
at what cost
torygraph saying that Brexit has already cost £bns of foreign investment
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/
will a deal at the last minute be too late for many companies, Rolls Royce moving to EU actually a likely outcome?
https://www.ft.com/content/b1650b02-b1c8-11e7-aa26-bb002965bce8?mhq5j=e5
and the damage done to EU workers already shameful according to remoaniac CBI
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/11/uk-treatment-eu-workers-blight-nation-says-cbi/