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VW pay $10.bn to settle emissions scandal in the US, anyone got a European update ? The power of an independent nation vs a vested interested club
Yeah right - and if we vote out we'll be as powerful as the US.
Because VW is a German company and a German company needs protecting. Everyday we cyclists breath the lies to our physical detriment but hey. Better in.
We are too scared to be a global power, just a bit player.
No work tomorrow for me (Daddy Day Care) so can stay up late. What are the options...after dinner snooze for a few hours, then a double espresso around ten? Good thing there's no footie on this evening.
I want to know asap. Staying up all night with Dimbleby and the beeb.
I predict 53%/47% remain.
What are the options...after dinner snooze for a few hours, then a double espresso around ten?
Yes that's a possibility. Or you could have a cup of tea around nine and a little snooze afterwards.
The only tea in the house is a selection of various fruity/mint/camomile concoctions - all mrs DD's fault. Coffee it is.
polling station seemed a bit sparse there compared to the GE. low turnout I reckon, in scotland atleast.
I'm with Woppits prediction above. Only 2-3% in it.
I suspect that like the last general election and the sudden Tory majoirty, there is a large number of "remain" voters who are keeping it quiet. It's been hard to stand up to the sometimes shouty attitude of some of the leave supporters.
Never seen our polling station so busy. Whether I agree with the result or not, at least people seem to be engaged and taking part.
Ours was the busiest I've seen it.
What are the options...after dinner snooze for a few hours, then a double espresso around ten? Good thing there's no footie on this evening
Go to bed find out when you wake up
HTH
Polling officers - is that what they are called- said it was the busiest they had seen
Ours was quiet this morning, hoping for a big turnout.
The ladies at my polling station said it had been busier than the GE.
I predict a Remain win, and a whole lot of trouble soon after.
Saw this a little while ago.
"I'm voting to keep things shit & not make it worse"
Usual turnout in Largs which is good compared to a Euro election. Which may or may not be worrying...
. Quite worrying if so the Scots are the only ones that can save us. low turnout I reckon, in scotland .
not going to know what my polling station is like, trains still stuffed from waterloo and then they are taking ages to get anywhere.
It's a conspiracy...
Ok. So it looks like Remain are going to win, but I want to know whether they intend to ignore the near 50% of the electorate who voted out?
Junker has said the UK are not getting any further concessions and both Labour and Tory parties have backed remain, so I detect interesting times ahead. I suspect the labour and tory party will preempt this and do a deal with the eu to surrender all sovereignty and forbid future uk democratic elections?
kimbers - Member
. low turnout I reckon, in scotland .
. Quite worrying if so the Scots are the only ones that can save us
could well just by my timing, I'm going on nothing else barring how it looked 20 minutes or so ago. Seems I'm going against the grain, so hopefully i'm wide of the mark, I should have asked the question though..
Ok. So it looks like Remain are going to win, but I want to know whether they intend to ignore the near 50% of the electorate who voted out?
I imagine they'll go with the wishes of the majority. 😉
Turnout is 110% in Tower Hamlets.
Well considering a former EU president hasn't swooped in at the last kick with a 'vow' to shower us with various previously undiscussed concessions I'd say the EU owe us nothing.
On the other hand, perhaps this should focus peoples minds a little better on voting for MEPs who actually do their job rather than treating it as one big laugh.
Busiest I've seen my polling station, although that meant a queue of three this morning. Looked busy this evening.
tbh a government or 2 down the line this referendum will be used as justification for further integration. which is fine with me.flanagaj - Member
Ok. So it looks like Remain are going to win, but I want to know whether they intend to ignore the near 50% of the electorate who voted out?Junker has said the UK are not getting any further concessions and both Labour and Tory parties have backed remain, so I detect interesting times ahead. I suspect the labour and tory party will preempt this and do a deal with the eu to surrender all sovereignty and forbid future uk democratic elections?
What are the options...after dinner snooze for a few hours, then a double espresso around ten?
Well I'm heading to the pub shortly, via last orders at the polling station. Will check in when I get back about 1ish then pass out in front of the telly and either wake up to a huge hangover or feeling fine 😀
@chekw
@jambalaya
I've enjoyed reading your posts and nice to see s couple of others who feel the same as myself. I am not optimistic, but I am sure you'll agree that it's going to be fun watching the 'you reap what you sow' outcome over the next 5 - 10 years time 🙂
@flangi not sure how you are assuming Remain will win, polls notoriously unreliable
DrJ I didn't suggest we where as powerful as the US, however I susoect we buy more diesel cars than they do. The US settlement is equivalent to $20,000 per vehicle. The point is the EU will NOT whack VW with similar level of fines as the company is too important to Germany. Classic EU vested interests
[quote=seosamh77 ]tbh a government or 2 down the line this referendum will be used as justification for further integration. which is fine with me.+1 I'd like to see a Remain vote finally put to bed the idea that we are a nation of Eurosceptics.
bookies are generally spot on though.jambalaya - Member
@flangi not sure how you are assuming Remain will win, polls notoriously unreliable
1/8 in 5/1 out last I looked.
I'd like to see a Remain vote finally put to bed the idea that we are a nation of Eurosceptics.
How will say 52/48 vote do that. We are far beyond sceptic we have a vote on a knife edge to exit the EU and if so probably lead to others leaving too
bookies are generally spot on though.
Bookies just run a balanced book, they have no more info than anyone else
jambalaya - MemberHow sill ansay 52/48 vote do that.
almost verging of the 45/55 landslide of the scottish ref! 😆
🙂
The Dream will Never Die
A narrow remain will result in people suddenly being a whole lot more interested in the EU and its processes. Expect MEPs to be busy. Hopefully this can galvanise some improvements.
agree, but what that means is that more people are lumping on in than out, which in its self is a poll, non weighted aye, but still can be looked at as a nation wide poll with an awful lot of participants..jambalaya - Member
bookies are generally spot on though.
Bookies just run a balanced book, they have no more info than anyone else
I would be very comfortable with anything below 55% but above 50% for remain - dont want a landslide as reduces case for reform.
not sure how you are assuming Remain will win, polls notoriously unreliable
I am basing my verdict on the following.
1) Given the gravitas an out vote will have I suspect a fair few 'outers' will change their minds when marking the ballot paper.
2) The bookies odds.
I'll commit to this now. If out win I'll celebrate by cycling through my hometown in a mankini!
nice to see you now supporting indy ref 2! 😉jambalaya - MemberThe Dream will Never Die
@flangi thanks
I'll watch a bit on and off overnight but not staying up - waiting for mate to call to say he's up for a pint
The UK is not Eurosceptic. Most people love Europe, they love holidaying there, love the idea of retiring there or having a holiday home there and are really slightly jealous of alot of what Europe has and is. But we've always had the ability to look at situations objectively and make decisions withought being swayed by silly notions of sentiment - which is what alot of the Remain side has relied upon. A vote to leave will not be a vote against Europe as a continent and a group of neibouring nations, but simply a vote against the political machine of the EU which is something that has stealthily morphed into something far more than it ever set out to be where it has been convenient for those who are driving it that the general public don't bother taking too much of an interest in its affairs. But now it seems we're starting to wake up to it, not just the UK but other areas of Europe, so whatever the outcome I think the EU will be subjected to far more scrutiny going forward by it's 'subjects' than it has in the past. And so it should. If an organisation like the EU is not being constantly questioned, challenged and required to justify it's existence, then that is where the problems start.
but I am sure you'll agree that it's going to be fun watching the 'you reap what you sow' outcome over the next 5 - 10 years time 🙂
So you think remaining in the EU will be bad for the UK but you are going to enjoy watching it being bad for the UK over the next 5 - 10 years. That's nice.
I think you are right with your prediction btw, and the reason isn't hard to figure out - anyone with sensible arguments against the EU was ignored by the media.
The media decided that Boris Johnson should be one of the principle advocate for leaving the EU. I have no idea why - he only decided a couple months ago that he was opposed to the EU, before that he hadn't made up his mind, presumably it's because he has funny blonde hair?
yes if anything, wobbliscot, I think this ref will make people start looking at participating in euro democracy. Personally I'm as guilty as anyone, but the likes of that fat ukip slug getting a seat for scotland as an MEP and my looking at the EU alot more recently, due to the ref, I'll be taking a bigger interest going forward, I think thats a theme that will be widely followed...guess turnout at the next euro election is the litmus test for that.
After starting this thread, I suppose I had better throw my hat into the ring.
I voted remain.
ftfy. 😉ernie_lynch - Member
anyone with sensible arguments was ignored by the media.
But we've always had the ability to look at situations objectively and make decisions withought being swayed by silly notions of sentiment - which is what alot of the Remain side has relied upon..
Clearly only some of us can be objective. Some of us seem so drunk on our own political views it makes us write reality in terms of our own ideology 😯
After starting this thread, I suppose I had better throw my hat into the ring.
178 pages of this! And it's all your fault!
anyone with sensible arguments [s]against the EU[/s] was ignored by the media.
Its all been largely blue on blue as they tried to out hate , out fear and out negative each other.
Basically they did their standard election /referendum tactic
No one thinks its been a decent debate whatever way we will be /have voted
all i want out of this is a law to be passed that bans referendums, and a second that introduces PR for westminster, so we can avoid the Tory party having a majority and shafting the country because of infighting again!
yay, we can have the tories and ukip shafting everyone instead! 😆 i'd prefer more referendums tbh!
all i want out of this is a law to be passed that bans referendums
Yep, in 1983 the Labour Party had a policy of withdrawing from the EEC without a referendum, we need to re-establish that.
Then the choice will clear - if you want bankers and industrialists to rule you forever then just keep voting Tory, forever.
I'm loving #SuggestAJobForFarage
But I'm not counting any chickens yet
Its all been largely blue on blue as they tried to out hate , out fear and out negative each other.
Basically they did their standard election /referendum tacticNo one thinks its been a decent debate whatever way we will be /have voted
This. It's amused me all along to see many of the Brexit mob moaning about dodgy Dave's tactics when they seemed perfectly happy with exactly same approach during the last election!
Should we have a referendum on banning referenda?
You realise that if we PR then the UKIP would have many more seats :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281
[img] 
[/img]
[quote=igm ]Should we have a referendum on [s]banning referenda[/s] what is the plural of referendum?
referenda is to referendum as veranda is to verandum
But we've always had the ability to look at situations objectively and make decisions withought being swayed by silly notions of sentiment
L O L !
Funniest thing I've heard all campaign!
@matt no surprises there, your thread more popular than mine 😉 a year ago it was started 😯 I guessed it would be a 2017 Referendum
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stw-2017-eu-inout-referendum-thread ]linky[/url]
we speak english not latin, referendums is fine, same as forums.
swayed by silly notions of sentiment - which is what alot of the Remain side has relied upon.
You have to be joking? That's been the leave side through and through. All the gubbins about taking back control and making Britain great again. The Remain side had the back of facts and as far as I could see didn't need to play the sentiment card.
matt_outandabout -
After starting this thread, I suppose I had better throw my hat into the ring.
I'm glad I saw this post. 🙂
I will take the risk of UKIP having more seats if it means that we get a representative parliament.
I blame the coverage in the mediums for this bad pluralisation.
The blue on blue has been quite nasty, for a while it seemed that Cameron had kept a lid on it all, but when IDS, Gove and of course Borris started using this as a career move in earnest it got very dirty
The mayoral election saw parade of racist attacks from the very heart of Tory government.
Vote leave have been happy to capitalise on some very unpleasant racist rhetoric from farige and co. and skirted very close to the line themselves, done nothing about the warning signs of the far right embracing their cause and the consequences of this have been tragic.
In or Out this Referendum has damaged the country
after the last few weeks, whatever happens, I just want to live in a world where I never ever ever have to listen to the 3 words 'take back control' ever again. I've started to develop a twitch when I hear them.
I'd happily disembowel the next person to utter it, and gleefully hurl their entrails into a fire pit
Let's be honest.... it's nothing more than they deserve
it's going to be fun watching the 'you reap what you sow' outcome over the next 5 - 10 years time
Well you are spot on this time. The "told you so" arguments will continue for sure and if past trends are anything to go by the EU and foreigners will continue to be scapegoats for anything that goes wrong. There is plenty of form...
Oh well, only 4 mins left....
In or Out this Referendum has damaged the country
Yes and no. It's been a poor show for sure, but it has also allowed us to look deeper into the mirror and observe what our society is really like. It was not a pleasant picture. Perhaps we might learn from it?
Good luck everybody...
Oh well, only 4 mins left....
Yea, and we can then finally close this thread 😆
In or Out this Referendum has damaged the country
Well it hasn't been pretty, that's for sure.
Possibly it might lead to some form of meaningful change (in or out). However, the most likely outcome (if we vote in) is nothing happens as the Tory Party spend the next 2 years fighting a civil war.....
BONG x10
personally I think the, proper, tory leadership contest is gonny be a right old laugh!
shooty in for corbyn!
Kids joke from FB
Apparently Raheem Stirling was unable to vote ......he can't put a cross in the box.
IGMC
Good luck everybody...
Should we all hold hands or something?
It's the contradictions that make English such a great language! 🙂igm - Member
I blame the coverage in the mediums for this bad pluralisation.
Irrespective of the result, I'd sincerely hope for a major rethink of our society and democratic values and process.
Some truly despicable aspects of British life have been laid bare, including the naked ambitions of supposedly mainstream politicians who conveniently ignored the fact that neo-nazis were doing their bidding.
- FPTP - I know, we had a referendum on this, but it was half hearted / half arsed. Maintaining the status quo with the current Westminster set up is a disservice to the Nation. I'm pretty confident UKIP's vote would drop off. It's a protest vote against a system that doesn't work. The likes of LibDems, Greens, SNP and Plaid have shown themselves capable to work together with others. I don't feel that UKIP would be well suited to that sort of politics, so their role in any sort of coalition is unlikely to be constructive (& therefore, short lived)
- Political "marketing" - the rules on this utter bollocks had to be tightened up. So much at stake over today's vote. Utter disgrace
- Broadcasting balance. UKIP have been allowed to dominate this debate for this vote and at the GE. Farage hasn't even got a seat. THEY ARE NOT ONE OF THE MAJOR PARTIES - FFS STOP TREATING THEM LIKE THEY ARE 👿 TBH, the broadcasters treated the "schism" in the out vote as if there were three parties - here's and intervie with VoteLeave, here's an interview with Remain and here's an interview with Nige the racist...
- Nut jobs. FFS, let's shut off the oxygen / sunlight / toxic political & social environment that gives the right wing extremists any sort of platform. I don't believe in censorship, so this has to be a case of exposing them for what they are.
Even if you speak Latin, it is not referenda. I did post on this earlier and frankly I think it is probably one of the more important issues.
Soooo. What's next? Scottish Independence v2?
think an in result kills that for a good long while tbh.
though if england/wales is out and scotland/ni cause an in it gets interesting.
yougov poll, in win 52/48.
personally I think the, proper, tory leadership contest is gonny be a right old laugh!
On the other hand, how is it going to be for Labour if huge swathes of the heartlands vote against the leadership?
BBC reporting Farage admits remain may have edged it
Borris claimed to have conceded according to twitter