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Next week will involve the now traditional bickering and squabbling but will fail to change anything on the ground. And the clock keeps ticking...
I'm now completely resigned to a No Deal Brexit. I just can't see any alternative. The fact that most MPs don't want it is neither here nor there. They should have thought of that before they triggered article 50 and voted accordingly.
No Deal is the default position, and one thing thats for sure is that if the shear incompetence of our politicians will deliver anything, the default position is it.
We're crashing out with no deal on the 29th because our political class is too self-serving and useless to deliver anything else
The more pertinent question to ask is what happens then?
yep May & Labour would both be promising the same unicorn
Conveniently ignoring of course the fact that Barnier has said they would be willing to talk about 'a' customs union. Honestly, all of you saying 'you can't' or 'it's not possible' seem to forget this is a negotiation. Whilst it might be unlikely, both sides still have the ability to change their position, irrespective of what they may have said before. Who says you can't have a customs union without FOM? Who says May can't relax or even discard one of her red lines? Ditto Corbyn.
I'm beginning to think much of this is theatre. The stakes are too high for it not to be. Maybe it's wishful thinking but I can't imagine for a second that they haven't already thrashed out agreement on all options and scenarios, and now they just need to see which option parliament will choose.
The more pertinent question to ask is what happens then?
In terms of politics and trade deals it's just the beginning. We crash out and on day one post-Brexit we need to start negotiating new deals. Negotiating with people like the EU, who we've been unable to get a deal with already.
We need to put tariffs on imports if we want any leverage in negotiations (y'know, when the Spanish want Gibraltar back as part of the deal) so stuff gets more expensive.
Conveniently ignoring of course the fact that Barnier has said they would be willing to talk about ‘a’ customs union.
splitting the 4 freedoms would be the end of the EU, why on earth would they agree to it?
we have a choice
the same choice we've always had, if Labour arent grown up enough to admit it, then they are being just as dishonest as the tories
Forget cancelling, forget 2nd votes, forget no deal. There is simply no majority in parliament for any of these things. The only thing that will get a majority is a cross party compromise, and that’s what will happen (probably).
been scratching your magic balls again?
I’m now completely resigned to a No Deal Brexit. I just can’t see any alternative.
Funny cos I'm convinced of the opposite. There will be a deal. Whether that's good or bad is debatable, but there will be a deal. There is too much at stake both politically and economically for both tories and labour, and the EU27 for there not to be.
Think of it this way, the only cast-iron truth in this country when it comes to politics and economics is that the establishment always gets its way. In this case the interests of the establishment are aligned with a soft (or no) brexit, and as usual they will get their way again. Either that or we really are in 'exciting' and chaotic times where all the old rules have been discarded. I doubt it though.
@ Dazh, and when do you thing those négociation are going to take place? For Labour proposals to count they need to be in power, so first off all you need a GE. Then start to négociate if Labour wins. And it is not looking good so far.
No deal is 20 days away, not 20 weeks.
I think her deal will get through.
Just seen a headline where Jeremy ****. sorry, Hunt, has said that EU-UK relations will be poisoned unless Brussels budges. The arrogance of that man amazes me. The whole point of a deal, especially in politics, is that both parties find a middle ground where both are happy enough with the outcome. Why the **** should it be the major party having to move because some bit player is stamping their feet??
I'm angry.
I think everyone must be getting pretty angry that due to this ongoing farce, the country essentially hasn't been governed for the last two years. I know I am, and I'm not alone.
Brexit has devoured everything before it. Our society has all manner of problems that need addressing urgently, but aren't! Because instead our politicians are consumed in a mess of their own making that will ultimately make all our existing problems infinitely worse!
It's absolute madness!
Is anyone listening to her warbling on in Grimsby? Honestly, she makes me so angry! "No accepting the deal risks a Brexit no-one voted for" - hang on one cotton-picking minute!!!!
Brexit has devoured everything before it. Our society has all manner of problems that need addressing urgently, but aren’t! Because instead our politicians are consumed in a mess of their own making that will ultimately make all our existing problems infinitely worse!
It’s absolute madness!
That is the bottom line for me.
No argument in favour of Leave stands up to scrutiny.
Any logical argument for it ends up pointing to bad motivations. See the disaster capitalists and NHS seller-offers.
Any well-intentioned argument for it rapidly breaks down because the result will make the initial problem far worse.
I still cannot think of a single good reason why Brexit of any kind should happen. The will of the people argument is ludicrous - these people need protecting from themselves.
Who says you can’t have a customs union without FOM?
The ill informed.
Who says you can’t have a customs union without FOM?
The people with whom we are seeking a customs union because it is one of their core principles. Remember principles?
We are seeking a new customs union with them because we left their club of our own volition* and have been acting with casual mendacity and breathtaking arrogance with them ever since.
*After stupidly triggering A50 as a result of a very close and highly suspect opinion poll.
The people with whom we are seeking a customs union because it is one of their core principles. Remember principles?
You can't be a member of the customs union without FOM no. But it doesn't seem out of the question that you could negotiate a different agreement that wasn't the same as the CU. You could have a qualified CU with qualified FoM. The EU does have lots of custom arrangements after all. The issue is not the EU's rules, it's the UK's supposed red lines. We haven't tried to change our negotiating stance.
I still cannot think of a single good reason why Brexit of any kind should happen. The will of the people argument is ludicrous – these people need protecting from themselves.
Still banging the dictatorship drum then. Have you ever thought of living in China?
I think everyone must be getting pretty angry that due to this ongoing farce, the country essentially hasn’t been governed for the last two years. I know I am, and I’m not alone.
Must as I despise her, May is playing a blinder. She's aligning herself with every leave voter who doesn't understand why the politicians can't just 'get on with it'. That's why her ratings are perversely as high as they are, because by some miracle of manouevring she's managed to position herself as the people's representative fighting the arrogant and untrustworthy politicians who want to subvert what the people demanded in the referendum. It's very clever, and who knows it might just work.
The issue is not the EU’s rules, it’s the UK’s supposed red lines. We haven’t tried to change our negotiating stance.
She can't or won't change her negotiating stance because the ERG and the DUP wrote her red lines for her and if she even hints that those red lines are negotiable they will go into meltdown and hit self-destruct on the Tory party
And as you've no doubt already noted, holding together the Tory party is the number one priority that trumps everything, even if it means destroying the countries economy in the process
At the end of the day we are all being held to ransom by a handful of headbangers who May has run scared of from day one
Still banging the dictatorship drum then. Have you ever thought of living in China?
Yes - if you promise never to go there.
I agree with all of a binners post for once 🙂
Must as I despise her, May is playing a blinder. She’s aligning herself with every leave voter who doesn’t understand why the politicians can’t just ‘get on with it’.
I think you overestimate her. I think she can't understand why politcians can't just 'get on with it' [and back her deal] either.
The people with whom we are seeking a customs union because it is one of their core principles. Remember principles?
Factually incorrect. Turkey has a customs union with the EU.
Still banging the dictatorship drum then. Have you ever thought of living in China?
What like telling people there has to be a brexit nobody wants?
Maybot 99.1 says if no one votes for her deal then we may never leave the eu not sure why some people are now going to consider voting for her deal ....like those who want to stay in the eu
A few of the less mental ERG lot (everything’s relative, obviously) are already saying they’re going to vote for Mays crappy deal now as they fear not doing so could mean no Brexit
So it’s working
Looks like the question is what labour do, which hardly inspires confidence given their track record on important Brexit votes
A soft Brexit won’t help much over remaining, because Brexiteers will feel cheated and they will have enough grievances about not having control to last generations.
Grumbling as opposed to some serious issues with hard Brexit destroying jobs and stoking some serious fires of resentment.
Like I keep banging on it doesn’t happen day one there’ll be a gradual decline as we become less competive.
Don’t forget the lies that we would ‘roll over’the existing trade deals like that’s happened(4 at last count and the teeny ones),no shit Sherlock that requires the other players to roll over and they’re most definately not going to settle for the same deal when they can get us when we’re all alone.
But yep Remaining makes more sense.
Factually incorrect. Turkey has a customs union with the EU.
Spoilsport
What like telling people there has to be a brexit nobody wants?
how can you say that?
May's deal accurately reflects the will of teh people & definitely wont leade to bitter recriminations & further resentment
Factually incorrect. Turkey has a customs union with the EU.
I could try to 'Karen Bradley' my way out of this by claiming a small mis-speak followed by a large misinterpretation by others........
But, hands up, you are right there and I am wrong.
Well Brexit means Brexit and we’re having a red,white and blue one 🙂
Whats truely frightening is putting Disgraced Fox in charge of negotiating trade deals there’s some seriously bad stuff gonna come out of it and i’m Not exactly sure that there’s any significant parliamentary oversight on this stuff so we think Graylings bad but looks like Fox’s got carte Blanche.(I’m hoping someone sparks up with I’m wrong)
are Labour not also saying that we can keep an independent trade policy, whilst remaining in the CU though
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46891257
And with immaculate timing, a reminder of the intellectual heavyweights we have backing Brexit. Co-chair of the ERG no less.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1104006646395633667
Will Self did refine his line the second time around from 'did' to pretty much probably did.
I thought that was the most interesting part of that.
The stare was good too.
30 days to go, holy moly we are doomed.
10 bonus days! Sweet.
Will self's use of teh Stewart Lee quote obviously really upsets Brexiters
They dont like to admit that on Brexit they sided with the racists, so they act with faux indignation as Francois did, trying to twist it into an attack on all Leave voters- this is easier than admitting its true or maybe looking too closely at their own motivations.
This popped up earlier on Facebook, nice somethingion of where we are currently I thought. (NSFW warning, bit sweary)
This is worth a read too. From @uk_domain_names on Twitter.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eYS7uSlCi_kDYXcXOtXeZ611hNLW7fKJ/view
Breaking: Brexiter deadlock resolved.
A medieval game of "brexit-ball" will decide once and for all the type of leave deal we go for.
Remainers only get a shot if the leavers manage to completely wipe each other out.
The game will take place on the 28th of March.
Mr B Johnson couldn't commit to joining in on the day due a dodgy right foot.
(NSFW)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47487320
Brexit: One more push needed to get deal through, says May
It does make it sound like trying to get through some really bad constipation, what follows isn't going to be very nice.
Bloody EU - at it again.
https://news.sky.com/story/barnier-eu-would-let-britain-leave-customs-union-after-brexit-11658965
Luckily the DUP have seen through this blatant attempt to be reasonable.
But she can’t do that without freedom of movement, which is one of her red lines
I think freedom of movement would be acceptable to Brexiteers now considering that over the past couple of years EU immigration has tanked, presumably because EU citizens have more sense than to come here. Meanwhile I wonder if they've noticed the increase in non-EU immigration to take up the slack.
A new opinion poll suggests that voters in Northern Ireland are deeply dissatisfied with the British government’s handling of Brexit.
That's rather like the rest of the UK isn't it?
Meanwhile,
https://www.thejournal.ie/michel-barnier-brexit-deal-4531460-Mar2019
THE EU’S CHIEF Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has offered the UK a new Brexit deal which would see it leave the customs union but keep parts of the backstop which would ensure there is no hard border on the island of Ireland.
In a number of tweets sent this afternoon, Barnier said the UK has been offered a way to exit the “single customs territory unilaterally, while the other elements of the backstop must be maintained to avoid a hard border”.
An offer we have already rejected, no?
Hmmm - stay classy...
An offer we have already rejected, no?
"We" accepted it, but then May spoke to the DUP on the phone… so we then asked for the customs area part of it to be changed to whole UK… which the EU accepted… and then May voted with most of her party to reject that… so we're back to the EU proposing a backstop for NI only… if "we" accept that… May needs to get back on the phone to the DUP…
Sorry for the link to this twits page but I haven't seen anyone else report this.
well sorry about that, but it was tricky reading the posts a single line at a time round the edge of an ad for China airlines.
Using an android phone on opera I don't get any ads even though I still don't have a P.
Sorry for the link to this twits page but I haven’t seen anyone else report this.
it's a pretty good summary
That Aron banks story is quite depressing, though surprising to none, you'd think that the lexiters might be extra ashamed if he was also illegally funding Labour Leave.
Maybe even time for a bit of soul searching......
In the froth of the last few weeks, the hapless antics of the tiny remaining cabal of diehard anti-Brexit lawyers have almost been overlooked, as yet another legal challenge to Brexit was crushed. Jessica Simor QC was judged wrong on more or less every argument she tried to make as she went down in flames Jolyon-style…
it’s a pretty good summary
Hmm great start, really concentrating on the facts not a narrative from the outset, in fact a shining example on impartial journalism. The selective quoting is only outdone by some people on here 😉
The selective quoting is only outdone by some people on here
The quoting gives a pretty good idea of how dismissive the judge was about the arguments put forward. I have read alot of judgements over the years and I struggle to think of one which was quite as dismissive of a party's arguments
Well... who’d have thunk it?
Labour push for new referendum put on hold
When the catastrophe of the No Deal we’re headed for becomes a reality, Jeremy ****ing Corbyn will be as culpable for it as Boris Johnson. The man is a liar, a coward and a fraud! And more importantly a full-blooded Brexiteer!
Quite possibly but the vitriol is mostly off putting and helps remove credibility from it. Anyway what each of these cases going back to the original one about triggering article 50 without parliament has shown is quite how bad the whole process has been, how the government has tried to act outside the powers it has. How those involved with leave ignored rules, laws and decency. There are still serious questions about the sources of some of the cash.
You got all angry for nothing.
Writing in the Guardian, the former Labour communications chief Alastair Campbell, who is involved with the People’s Vote campaign, said that Tuesday “must belong to Mrs May being made to see her deal will not – and cannot – fly” and called on the backbenchers to hold fire.
You need to see the whole picture not just the headlines.
The man is a liar, a coward and a fraud! And more importantly a full-blooded Brexiteer!
Glad you waited to see how it actually unfolded before you pass any sort of judgement.
Anyone seen one of these ads yet?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/09/obscure-no-deal-brexit-group-is-uks-biggest-political-spender-on-facebook
ah back in the day Dave has HIGNFY from 2014 when Carsewll defected to UKIP and this whole thing kicked off. Oh the good old days
So some insights from the current polling you gov is doing, questions are going on about what do you think honouring the brexit vote is (and sorry for some one of the answers is leaving on Mays deal or no deal is not honouring it) it's the last bit of sounding to show where opinion is before the next vote. We can't have another one after this.
I'd expect these results to be out on Tuesday
Well… who’d have thunk it?
Labour push for new referendum put on hold
When the catastrophe of the No Deal we’re headed for becomes a reality, Jeremy ****ing Corbyn will be as culpable for it as Boris Johnson. The man is a liar, a coward and a fraud! And more importantly a full-blooded Brexiteer!
He's following the timing strategy proposed by Remain campaigners, you steaming nit.
This is quite a telling quote from Davis:
"If we stay on our current trajectory, we will go into the next election with the government having delivered none of the benefits of Brexit, with the country having been reduced to a rule taker from Brussels, " he wrote in a letter to Conservative MPs.
"This will not be a technicality. It will be very obvious to the electorate. The electoral consequences could be dire."
Nothing about the good of the country - but plenty of concern about his odious party's electoral chances.
Shame the master negotiator didn't do a better job.
Anyone seen one of these ads yet?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/09/obscure-no-deal-brexit-group-is-uks-biggest-political-spender-on-facebook/blockquote >Nah but this is the serious issue with micro marketing on Facebook that you really don’t know what shites being told to people. Fine with flogging Maseratis but really bad for political influencing.
Still £340k pumped in to spread a message does make you think... way cheaper than launching a missile.
There was also the mystery £400k donation channelled through the DUP to the leave campaign.
This turned out to be the CRC a group run by a Scottish Conservative who failed to get elected. Steve Barclay also received £6500 from them on behalf of the ERG.
"As chair of the European Research Group (ERG), I accepted £6,500 from the Constitutional Research Council to fund hospitality for ERG members and their staff at an event on December 19, 2016."
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1104433666246262785.html
From a series of tweets about how Arron Banks and Leave was funded.
Awww leave old Arron alone, us Bristol peeps is always having meeetings with Russian ambassadors.
Although the fact that he allegedly ran a division for Norwich Union although they don’t seem to remember this would start ringing alarm bells and tbh once you start registering a multitude of companies without being able to spell your name correctly twice in a row 🙂
will the price of tinfoil go up?
asking for a friend
What if everyone who now thinks Brexit is a really , really bad idea decided not to pay their council tax standing order on the 1st april.
20 million ish people , £100pcm average would leave a massive hole in local government finances and if enough people actually carried it out nothing could be done for weeks ,in trms of sending letters, starting the fines process.
Do it for 2 months and it really would hit the local councils wage and pension bill hard.
Problem is million of people work for local councils and would be leant on
Uber rich tories in government would not be directly affectd
alot would bottle it and not go through with it
But it could be a way to stop the madness but hard to instigate enough momentum to get it going
You go first.;-)
brexit supporters should be forced to wear a badge declaring their will.
they could be easily identified and sent to the back of the queue for food rations, medical appointments, customs etc..
dont submit a tax return, seeing as they are not representing you why pay the government anything?
and all the EU nationals currently providing services to them should just let them help themselves seeing as they are in control now.. they can clean their own car/house, provide thier own medical care, nanny their own kids, be their own minicab driver, build their own extension and never get served in restaurants..
brexit supporters should be forced to wear a badge declaring their will.
they could be easily identified and sent to the back of the queue for food rations, medical appointments, customs etc..dont submit a tax return, seeing as they are not representing you why pay the government anything?
and all the EU nationals currently providing services to them should just let them help themselves seeing as they are in control now.. they can clean their own car/house, provide thier own medical care, nanny their own kids, be their own minicab driver, build their own extension and never get served in restaurants..
democracy innit
Obviously we can't say that people who voted for Brexit are stupid, but ....
I heard Marcus Fysh MP on Radio4 and nick Robinson made him look like a complete imbicile, and he wasn't even being tough on him. He was simply contradicting himself!
And yesterday Esther Mcvey tweeted this
https://twitter.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1104830370099458048?s=19
The reputation of the Tories will surely take decades to recover !?
There's 2 explanations, the brexiteers are wilfully deceiving the public or just light-bendingly stupid.
Dead link, care to enlighten us?
There’s 2 explanations, the brexiteers are wilfully deceiving the public or just light-bendingly stupid.
It's a mixture. Some of them are indeed light bendingly stupid, Chris Grayling and Karen Bradley being a perfect example. Others are being willfully deceptive like JRM and Boris. Some fall in the middle, they think they are playing clever strategies but end up looking like fools, see Dominic Raab and his comments on Dover.
This is obviously not an exhaustive list!
These people aren’t necessarily thick, but they do seem to be wilfully ignorant. Karen Bradley being the most glaring example of this
The BBC and the Guardian both reporting that May is planning to pull this weeks votes.
Absolutely unbelievable
Cliff edge, here we come...
Dead link, care to enlighten us?
Treaty of Rome lies, again. All the replies were simple corrections/rebuttals… so she deleted it.
Anyway, good to see, at this late stage, that all the Brexit pushing politicans are coming forward with real, practical, implementable and deliverable measures we can put in place. Over the last three years they have made it clear that they're so on top of all the issues, that we are wise to push ahead with their, er, policies, that were narrowly voted for, years ago.
This from politico re May having lost the trust of her own cabinet.
Erm, about those Cabinet supporters. There are now only two of them left, a source tells the Telegraph, which is not a great result given there are 20-odd faces around the table. Playbook’s money is on them being Karen Bradley and Chris Grayling, given it’s hard to imagine either of them ever having a job in government again once May is out the door. “Everyone else has lost faith in her ability to lead,” the Telegraph’s source says.
...and yet there she still is?
May has apparently issued assurances that the vote will definitely be going ahead tomorrow. Going off her previous assurances its probably safe to assume that it definitely won't be going ahead tomorrow then.
I'm sure it will be put back yet again, as the can is kicked right until theres no road left to kick it down
Tick tock...
Dead link, care to enlighten us?
Vinegar tits Mcvey lies yet again, then doubles down on whataboutery.
Just the usual lies...lies and more lies we expect from our elected politicians