[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Stockmarket appears to be suggesting Remain

Is that near Newmarket?

Hora?

Hora is already gone. I had enough of his half-baked, nonsensical drivel half way through last week

Just read this on the Guardian website

[i]North Wiltshire Tory MP James Gray (a passionate leave supporter) says if people vote to remain he will accept “the democratic will of the people”, but only if it is a “reasonable majority” suggestion around 60-40.[/i]

Well thats *ing big of him? The arrogance and sense of entitlement of these people is staggering!! Though entirely unsurprising from a campaign led by a huge man baby who seems to think his divine destiny is to rule over all he surveys

*s!!!

binners - Member
I have to say that there have been few positives in this pretty hateful campaign (from both sides).

One thing though is that, due to the joys of social media, I now know for certain which of the people who I regarded as friends is actually a complete petty, small-minded, insular, backward looking, racist bell end.

I have been heartened by the fact that so many of my friends, relatives, colleagues, people I knew at university and at school have expressed [b]sensible, rational, level-headed and pragmatic[/b] views in favour of the UK remaining a member of the EU.

binners - Member
Hora is already gone. I had enough of his half-baked, nonsensical drivel half way through last week

I don't blame you.

Klunk - Member
no exit polling so we won't have any idea till a least midnight

It would seem that the tinfoil hat brigade are suggesting that by having pencils in voting booths 'they' will be able to erase a leave vote and substitute a Remain vote. Either that or there are 'millions' of pre-printed remain ballot papers that are going to be substituted.

Whichever, they are suggesting that if there is a Remain win it will be "fixed"

Has anyone seen anything from chekw. Am concerned his late night keyboard mashing might have sent him over the edge

I have been heartened by the fact that so many of my friends, relatives, colleagues, people I knew at university and at school have expressed sensible, rational, level-headed and pragmatic views in favour of the UK remaining a member of the EU.

I'm more concerned/surprised at the fact that when I pitched up today to vote I forgot my poll card, just gave my name and address, was struck off a list and handed my voting slip, voted, posted it in the box without the need to provide any form of identification or any means to prove I was who I said I was. I could have gone in again and given my neighbours name and got a second vote with the only thing to prevent that from happening is that the person at the desk didn't recognise me....or to get around that, given the name and address of someone from a different part of my village which would have meant I checked in at a different desk altogether.

[quote=wobbliscott ]I'm more concerned/surprised at the fact that when I pitched up today to vote I forgot my poll card, just gave my name and address, was struck off a list and handed my voting slip, voted, posted it in the box without the need to provide any form of identification or any means to prove I was who I said I was. I could have gone in again and given my neighbours name and got a second vote with the only thing to prevent that from happening is that the person at the desk didn't recognise me....or to get around that, given the name and address of someone from a different part of my village which would have meant I checked in at a different desk altogether.

you mean like at most elections?

Whichever, they are suggesting that if there is a Remain win it will be "fixed"

If leave win, it will be a sad day as it will suggest that the majority of voters in the UK have a concerning world view.

It has always surprised me you don't need ID to vote

Years ago a friend of mine, knowing his brother would not vote and being too young himself to vote turned up and voted as him in a general election

This friend would be foolish to admit this offence publicly.

[quote=wobbliscott ]I'm more concerned/surprised at the fact that when I pitched up today to vote I forgot my poll card, just gave my name and address, was struck off a list and handed my voting slip, voted, posted it in the box without the need to provide any form of identification or any means to prove I was who I said I was. I could have gone in again and given my neighbours name and got a second vote with the only thing to prevent that from happening is that the person at the desk didn't recognise me....or to get around that, given the name and address of someone from a different part of my village which would have meant I checked in at a different desk altogether.
I assume you've never voted before?

Anyone else slightly nervous about this one? With general elections you know it's all change after a few years but this is a little more permanent

but this is[s] a little more[/s] permanent

you've never needed a polling card to vote, as long as you are registered and there's not a line through your name you can vote!

[quote=binners ]One thing though is that, due to the joys of social media, I now know for certain which of the people who I regarded as friends is actually a complete petty, small-minded, insular, backward looking, racist bell end.
Some have outed themselves quite spectacularly by reposting anti-muslim Britain First nonsense, and other such crap, and expressed opinions that are just plain vile.The only stuff I've seen like this is when a friend has responded to some of the shite in order to counter it (normally TJ). Of course it could be that some folk actually know they are petty, small-minded, insular, backward looking, racist bell ends but don't feel the need to advertise it.

[img] [/img]

Apparently it says :

"Dear Britain, if you stay in the EU...
We will acknowledge the Wembley goal.
We won't make any more jokes about Prince Charles' ears.
We won't wear sun cream on the beach in solidarity with your sunburn.
We will go without our goalkeeper at the next penalty shootout to make it more exciting.
We will introduce tea time, with buckets on the beaches of Majorca.
We will willingly provide the villain in every Bond film.
We'll start "ticking" like you and put our clocks back by an hour.
We'll put through an EU directive which forbids foam on our beer.
We'll reserve sun loungers around the pool for you with our towels.
Jogi Löw will guard your crown jewels.
We will come to your Queen's 100th birthday."

from :

Commissioners are not elected by anyone - they not even individually ratified only the Commission as a whole is ratified by the Parliament - it is pretty ridiculous to suggest that is more democratic than a government in power because it can secure a parliamentary majority.

If it goes one way.

true. But I can't see anyone wanting to do this again for a while

divisive nonsense.

Paddy Power

In 1/9
Out 6/1

I wouldn't wait up.

no exit polling so we won't have any idea till a least midnight

I bet David Dumbledore will have a prediction as the clock strikes 10 tonight. Gryffindor or Slytherin though?

divisive nonsense

2 words to sum up the whole thing]

true. But I can't see anyone wanting to do this again for a while

The rest of us will rightly tell them to **** off, obviously. But they're going to keep banging on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on about it no matter what happens

They're unhinged!

always Gryffindor, bbc bias for the "good" guys 🙄

scotroutes
Of course it could be that some folk actually know they are petty, small-minded, insular, backward looking, racist bell ends but don't feel the need to advertise it

I think that, however it is in actuality, there are huge advantages for cameron's team pushing the message out that it is close, through the bbc and so on, and scaring people. that way they can really hold people hostage to the tory agenda, carry the momentum and claim they 'saved' the country from leave. basically save themselves from the consequences of the almighty rift in the tory party europe has always caused. I am skeptical that remaining is the best thing to do but suspect the remains will have it by quite a margin.

I also think they booted Ian Duncan Smith out so that someone who was from cameron's class and cohort could 'run' the leave campaign. Teresa May, who had been very noisey on the subject of the eu until the actual campaign came around, has also been 'sat on' by the tory top brasses.

with leave, i don't think cameron could continue and I don't think boris could win an election: so we'd get corbyn, which is fine as far as I am concerned.

Apparently the midday count has it 72% remain....

Apparently the midday count has it 72% remain....

wobbliscott - Member
I'm more concerned/surprised at the fact that when I pitched up today to vote I forgot my poll card, just gave my name and address, was struck off a list and handed my voting slip, voted, posted it in the box without the need to provide any form of identification or any means to prove I was who I said I was. I could have gone in again and given my neighbours name and got a second vote with the only thing to prevent that from happening is that the person at the desk didn't recognise me....or to get around that, given the name and address of someone from a different part of my village which would have meant I checked in at a different desk altogether.

https://twitter.com/ProfBrianCox/status/745909547978588160

I also think this has nearly nothing to do with business and trade in the way it is presented, and everything to do with the ability to trade euros in london on the foreign exchange markets, which, after the crash, have emerged as the most liquid form of city trading.

osbourne poking around a factory in a hi-vis vest hides the fact that all this is about the city of london.

I think her son/grandson posts her (from the Mash today).

"A RACIST nan who is fuelled entirely by hate has began her slow and unsteady journey to the polling station.

89-year-old Mary Fisher confirmed plans to get herself down to the local community centre and cast her vote against foreigners, even if it took half an hour just to get her coat on.

Like a salmon swimming upstream to spawn and then die, Fisher plans to expire shortly after the referendum and leave the younger generations to deal with the consequences.

She said: “I am old now, and my life is behind me, but that doesn’t mean I can’t bollocks things up for everyone else.

“Not all old people are racist, that is a tired stereotype. However I am very racist, particularly against the Chinese, who are not even in the EU but I see this as I step towards keeping all the buggers out.

“Also I want to make it harder for people to go on foreign holidays because they should be satisfied with a weekend in Tenby, going on the donkeys and drinking Slush Puppies.”

Neighbour Roy Hobbs said: “You have to admire her determination, but she did try to poison my cat last year so she’s definitely not all good.

“I’m driving to the polling station to vote against her. I said she could have a lift but she accused me of being a filthy pervert.”

Leave have not woke up yet as they don't have jobs due too the immigrants stealing them

Your new overlord ...

[img] [/img]
... the one on the left.

😆

@ nipper

@chew

ah, I see the random sentence generator has come online again. Downtime to update the database, was it?

Saw this comment in the Indy regarding the pen/pencil/MI5 conspiracy thing

I am appalled yet fascinated by the response to this from the brexiters posting here as they seem to be taking it as a badge of pride that so many of them openly endorse such paranoid conspiracy theories.

Sound familiar?

She was right ...
[img] [/img]

edenvalleyboy - Member
Apparently the midday count has it 72% remain....

Im sure I read that the 'labour heartland'- north of england etc postal votes a few days ago were looking very bad for remain 🙁

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/when-are-the-eu-referendum-results-what-time-will-we-know-the-wi/
Again, polls close then votes are counted, there are no exit polls. Your also not allowed to talk about results while the polls are open either as it can influence voters still to vote. So I would take anything beyond the last opinion poll as fiction.

How did it come to this? The wrong question, at the wrong time in the wrong context.

@Stoner's post above ..

Because we live in a democracy
What is the right question ?
When should we have been asked it ?

Even at EU bureaucratic level you cannot compete ...

[url= http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21636778-british-are-down-germans-and-east-europeans-are-up-friends-right-places ]The Economist.[/url]

[img] [/img]

that graph ^^^^ 🙄

Exacterly. Why would there be so many belgians eh, and not one single zm

Because we live in a democracy

So given that you can't ask everyone everything, what questions should we ask everyone?

kimbers - Member
that graph

[img] [/img]

All hail the kill file

So junior admin staff run the EU?
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

So tomorrow night's dinner:

Brexit - pie and mash
Remain - bratwurst und kartoffelsalat

jamba - a more adventurous leader should have spent the last 3 yrs coordinating a reform club of those other EU nations that teeter on popular majority for exit. The ridiculousness of the question of Out vs In is all babies and bathwater. That question should never have been asked of the UK population, but rather a question of proper EU reform should have been put to the Council of the European Union. Reform proposals put together over time with thought, care, negotiation and the weight of more than one member state behind them.

Even now, despite my distaste for Juncker, he is one of a number of federalists who are mooting calming down the rush for enlarging the EU in fear at the growth in popular unrest, since it “does not reflect the inclination of member states.”

Tusk saying: “We must take a long, hard look at the future of the Union. We would be foolish to ignore such a warning signal as the U.K. referendum, and there are more signals of dissatisfaction coming from all over Europe,”

Guy Verhofstadt, the former Belgian prime minister: “Whatever happens, it is clear that we have to reform the EU.” And reform should be swift: “We should use this momentum to fundamentally change the EU and start a discussion about the future of the EU.”

Cameron should have harnessed that sentiment and used it better, long before stumbling into his own bear trap of a referendum. The question should never have been asked of the UK voters.

[i]It has always surprised me you don't need ID to vote[/i]

Because that is one of the benefits of living in this fantastic country, we don't have ID cards - and nor do we want them.

I'm surprised that no Brexit has come up with a "EU will force ID cards story".

+350,000,000 Stoner. Each week.

Best case scenario - narrow remain.

Stoner speaks much sense it would have been better to get support rather than us being the lone wolf winging on the side-lines

TBH - not just a party political point but partly- I don't think Dave does all that well in diplomatic terms.

we don't have ID cards - and nor do we want them.

Its not like I can just walk in the bank and ask for money or sign on without ID. It just surprises me that your name is enough for a vote as it [s]encourages[/s] makes it dead easy to commit fraud
and voting is quite important

grips - as I said in another thread, there's part of me thinks a best case scenario is a v narrow Leave vote, but Cameron having the backbone to defy the public while he restarts negotiations with a coalition of "Exit-ish" countries under threat of invoking our Article 50 if the EU as a whole dont play along. DC would have until the next GE to run with it. According to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946 he has a majority in his own party and the parliament for REMAIN so in theory could survive long enough to pull it off.

His only risk is pissing off 24 million + people who already hate him.

Not to feed the demented troll (who has just woken up); apparently the reason there are very few Brits in the EU admin staff is you need to be fluent in two languages; and as our education is based around teaching one language that can be used at higher volumes when speaking to foreigners.

I blame the EU.

Well for those who believe in omens, the sky over Wales is a lovely EU blue at the moment.

Good post from Stoner.

Yes, the lack of legal binding onthe referendum result is interesting.

grips - as I said in another thread, there's part of me thinks a best case scenario is a v narrow Leave vote, but Cameron having the backbone to defy the public while he restarts negotiations with a coalition of "Exit-ish" countries under threat of invoking our Article 50 if the EU as a whole dont play along. DC would have until the next GE to run with it. According to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946 he has a majority in his own party and the parliament for REMAIN so in theory could survive long enough to pull it off.

That's my only hope if the choice is to leave.

@molgrips might I suggest French, Spanish or Italian food. Germany for cars only

Interesting Stoner. I do find the "we should never have had a referendum" a concerning argument, the EU and its performance and future direction have a massive imoact on our country. We very much should be asked as the campaign has shown its a cross party issue and our normal elections don't focus on such a specific issue.

As for reform we've have tried exactly that and its never worked, we've got nowhere. I am also highly cynical about Junker and Tusj's review/reform comments. All hot air, they may take a breather but the European superstate juggernaught knows no other way.

@ stoner

We cannot ignore the will of the people to that extent even with a very narrow vote for leave- possibly if we are talking hundred of voters but even 51v 49 is a largish number of people

I suspect what will happen is he wont article 50 - will re negotiate and actually get something then re referendum for the new deal

Again it will still piss off a lot of people

So this from BBC's updates:

What can't the BBC report?

* The BBC stops short of actually encouraging people to vote.

* While the polls are open, it is a criminal offence for anyone, not just broadcasters, to publish anything about the way in which people have voted in the referendum, where that is based on information given by voters after they have voted.

[b]* The BBC can't report anything emerging from exit polls (which, by definition, are asking people how they actually voted), although the broadcasters have not commissioned any exit polls for the referendum.
[/b]
* No opinion poll on any issue relating to the referendum can be published by broadcasters until after the polls have closed.

So has anyone commissioned an exit poll?

A narrow Leave and Cameron going back to EU could be. Ery explosive, I think in that case he faces an immediate leadership challenge so at that point its out of his hands. I think henprobably faces a challenge anyway. As such there could well be a period of a few months where not a lot happens

The torygraph link said there were no exit polls commissioned so in reality it's nothing till the results come in, you lot should know by breakfast...

While the polls are open, it is a criminal offence for anyone, not just broadcasters, to publish anything about the way in which people have voted in the referendum

I wish someone would tell Facebook that!

I think henprobably faces a challenge anyway.

I will try and brave it out into the small hours. I suspect, like I do for the US PEs, UK GEs and any Superbowl not involving the Steelers, the beer will get me around 0200. 🙂

So has anyone commissioned an exit poll?

I do find this very strange although from what I inderstand exit polls are normally very acurate as 1) they ask 10,000 people (bs normal phone stuff of 1000) and 2) they ask how people voted last time - this goves them bery accurate swing info which they can feed back into past results by constituency. As we've not had such a Referendum in r cent times they can't do that. Perhaps thats the reason there are no exit polls ?

There's a political science argument against referendums that I sort of agree with: that if you believe in the primacy of a representative parliament, then you dont undermine it with referendums. That's one that David Allen Green ( https://twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen) bangs on about. However, on the other hand I think in this case that, yes, there is a legitimate reason for a referendum because to the extent that a Leave vote is "anti establishment" the UK political establishment is incapable of positioning itself (through FPTP, two party system) such that the electorate can "Vote for" an anti-establishment ticket. See how poorly UKIP have fared nationally in parliament compare to a c.50% Leave vote.

But I stand by my view that THIS (In or Out) question should not have been put to the electorate in a referendum.

Apart from 10% of voters who inhabit the nuttier end of the spectrum, for most people the EU and how we live in and with it, is a nuanced relationship. To vote Leave should not be taken as a sign the voter is a raving racist bigot, just as vote Remain is not an indication that someone relishes the idea of a federalist European superstate. But to listen to the rhetoric you'd be hard pressed to find the shades of grey. And those shades of grey are not on offer in the referendum.

Indeed...the Beeb's post GE election poll was very accurate. I'm sure many of STW's right wing forelock tuggers will remember masturbating furiously as soon as Dimbleby announced it. Just thought it strange that no-one had commissioned one this time. I suppose it would give them little to speculate about all night. 🙂

masturbating furiously

Actually, I was cashing in my winning bet 😛

While masturbating furiously. Two hands and all that...

maybe both [i]my[/i] hands were dealing with the betting slip while someon......[NOPE MOD]

There's a political science argument against referendums that I sort of agree with

It's like, okay, why don't you *ing do what we pay you to do which is run the *ing country and make your *ing mind up?
What are you asking the people for? 99 per cent of the people are thick as pig shit.

What to expect

12.30am

Sunderland reports. Expect Leave to have a lead of six points if the national vote is tied. Sunderland will be followed by Wandsworth and the City of London, most likely reporting huge leads for Remain.

A slow trickle of results will keep the broadcasters occupied. Newcastle and Hartlepool will illustrate the difference between big cities and towns. Remain will hope to have a double-digit lead in Newcastle, but will rightly fear a big loss in Hartlepool.

2am

The first big wave of results, with 22 councils expected to declare at or around this time. Worth keeping an eye on Wrexham, one of the more Eurosceptic parts of Wales, which would be close if the national result is close.

2.30am

Castle Point in Essex – one of the most Eurosceptic authorities in the country, and an area in which Ukip has often done well – declares around this time. Perhaps more useful as a signpost are the two Welsh declarations expected about now – Swansea and Caerphilly. Caerphilly, in particular, is likely to be finely balanced between Leave and Remain.

3am

By this point, we’ll be roughly two-fifths of the way there. A key area to focus on is City of Lancaster, which will probably vote the same way as the rest of the UK.

3.30am

Edinburgh reports along with Aberdeen, Dumfries and a number of other Scottish local authorities. Edinburgh is tipped by Ladbrokes to have the highest vote in favour of Remain, so the outcome isn’t in doubt, but turnout might be important.

4am

The motherlode – 88 areas are expected to report at around this time. It may be at this point that broadcasters start considering whether to make a projection.

5am

By now roughly nine out of 10 areas should have reported. The remainder are mostly rural areas which lean towards Leave, sometimes quite heavily.

6am

If no projections are forthcoming by this point, the referendum may be achingly close. Sefton, expected to report about now, is one of a number of Labour-leaning areas in Merseyside that might disappoint the Labour party by very narrowly voting to leave.

7am

The last batch of areas to report. Most of these favour Leave, Arun in West Sussex and Waveney in Suffolk particularly so. If the result is still not known by this stage, it is almost certain that some constituent parts of the UK have voted to leave the EU while others have voted to remain, opening up a constitutional crisis lasting far beyond Friday morning.

All timings are approximate.

Source: Electoral Commission.

... Cameron having the backbone ...

That's your mistake, right there.