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With Corbyn in charge, very few. Because thanks to rhetoric like yours binners, they all think he’s a rabid commie (which is far from true) and/or ineffectual.
This.
And the centre ground seems to have forgotten how all the other rotten policies of the Conservatives have affected the country whilst being in the EU. It's Brexit, Brexit and more Brexit.
Labour are more than that (and clearly in a bit of a mash), which is why the conundrum exists today.
I’m not voting for a pro Brexit government to remove a pro Brexit government.
Then I would look further up the road than that.
You've seen the Tories devastation under the EU?
Then I would look further up the road than that.
How far up the road? When do you think that the chaos and damage of Brexit will end, if we don't stop it?
You’ve seen the Tories devastation under the EU?
Do you think leaving the EU will help, in any way, to avoid more of that?
"Vote for Brexit, or get Brexit"
Once the Labour Party adopt a policy that offers a way out of Brexit, I'll vote for them again, and even campaign for them.
As I vaguely understand things… May has to bring new(?) proposals back on Monday after her the deal was voted down on Weds. Amends can be tabled at that point I believe.
Me too.
But if everyone else refuses to talk unless she removes no deal as an option and she refuses, could she return and say that plan B is basically now to let the existing process run its course and we leave with No Deal on 29.3. Possibly then sticking up two fingers and moonwalking robotically out of the chamber.
Needs no new legislation / motion and hence there's nothing for people to start to table amendments to. What happens then - i'll just say tick-tock at this point for effect - can MP's present their own motions (in a shit-show such as this that could easily have two meanings) and does it rely on the Speaker breaking convention to create space for them? Or is the only killswitch option at that point for another No Confidence vote which at that point might then get the necessary moderate tory support to succeed.
I'm not a politico but as Laura K has said recently to a geek like her this is about as exciting as it gets.
could she return and say that plan B is basically now to let the existing process run its course and we leave with No Deal on 29.3
No, because she'd not only lose ministers, but MPs would resign the Tory whip if she openly said she was "in favour" of no-deal… she just has to (lie) that it can't be ruled out, for (more lies) negotiating reasons, and because (lies) it would be against the express will of the people to deny them Brexit, even in its most damaging form. She has to keep chasing a deal, and present no-deal as the result of not getting one.
I think that May is required (by earlier legislation) to keep bringing the deal until it is passed. In theory she could keep coming to Parly losing the vote and we crash out - but each time gives opportunity for amends to Brexit deal I believe and I can't see Parly allowing sleepwalking to no deal. Enough Tories will realise that if TM is so pigheaded as to do this the election ramifications for them down the road would not be good
I will have a dig about to see if I can find a guide to the process.
With Corbyn in charge, very few. Because thanks to rhetoric like yours binners, they all think he’s a rabid commie (which is far from true) and/or ineffectual.
My issue isn't with on his otherr policies on social justice etc. I'm a lifelong, natural labour voter who despises the Tory's with every fibre of my being.
But, no matter what Jezza or the rest of us would like, there's only one game in town right now... Brexit. Because everything else hinges on this. You can't instigate an enormous investment programme in building a fairer society if your tax revenues go through the floor
We have to deal with the world as it i, not with how we'd like it to be, and this is the reality. You can't build anything on warm wordss and wishful thinking.
Over Brexit Corbyn has been worse than useless. Brexit is a right wing project. Its a con by the hard right to turn us into a sweatshop tax haven. It was the duty of the Labour Leader to point this out during the referendum campaign, but unfortunately he was busy.
He has then facilitated and enabled this takeover by the far right at every turn, and whipped his party to do the same. So we are where we are.
Like most people with left-leaning liberal values I can see that this has to be stopped, because once we're out things are going to go to shit at a terrifying rate of knots. Once we're out off the EU all the achievements of the labour party - workers rights, the NHS, education, benefits, environmental controls and any semblance of social justice - will be under seige, and it'll be open season for the ultra free marketeers
That we have a leader of the labour party who can't see this, or can see it but won't opppose it, is a pretty depressing state of affairs
I'm not angry, Jeremy, I'm just dissapointed
Actually.... no... I'm really really really ****ing angry!!
I'm lost...
I thought maybot 3.0 had got to table her plan b by tomorrow....it looks like it says 29th on the news
3 working days. Monday.
But then they've cunningly postponed the debate on it.
What's the rush?
Tick. Tock.
3 working days, she tables the plan on Monday, but won't allow debate on it until the 29th.
Hmmm - she's is tabling a motion on Monday which I assume will buy her more time to rework the deal. I assume MPs will vote on that motion to give her more time - then deal presented and debate on 29th (ed for clarity)
Early indications are that May is not exactly being flexible on ruling out no-deal or allowing consideration of 2nd ref.
Or is the only killswitch option at that point for another No Confidence vote which at that point might then get the necessary moderate tory support to succeed
That's not a kill switch in quite the way you imagine imho. Assuming the no confidence motion is passed there are 14 mandated days for someone, anyone, to form a government which can secure the confidence of the house. No-one but the ardent brexiteers really want that job at the moment because the backlash will be huge regardless of how this all ends, so, assuming that motion was introduced today, debated tomorrow and passed that takes us to 2nd February with likely no government. On 2/2 the queen dissolves parliament in accordance with the fixed term parliament act. A GE will then be held but would need to be done and completed returning an outright majority with a single point of view (no party win is going to help because short of the SNP and lib dems taking defendable parliamentary majority between them there are no parties that agree on a way forward) in under 7 weeks, doable just (i think it needs a mandatory 6 but can't find a source). The new govt. then needs to present legislation to change the exit date, that has to be debated, amended, passed & go before the lords, have it's various readings in what is now less than 2 weeks. One filibuster by an ERG loon could see it not voted on at first attempt and miss it's timetable which is fanciful at best.
A no confidence vote is not a good way out of this unless you like no deal.
Early indications are that May is not exactly being flexible on ruling out no-deal or allowing consideration of 2nd ref
Conceivably both those would destroy the conservative party, there's plenty who would be very pleased with that but the idea of becoming effectively a one party state fills me with more dread than a hard brexit.
Christ. So she has booted the can down the road AGAIN!
She wont rule out no-deal, because clearly we need to make sure that the EU realise we are willing to shoot our own brains out and it is their responsibility to negotiate us down from this position. You really couldn't make this shit up.
I think if there was no-confidence vote and subsequent GE then Parly would vote for extension to A50 before dissolution - EU would agree
killswitch is the wrong term then - I mean it's the safety net that prevents her just saying Plan B is no deal because as others have said at that point she loses support from her own side and brings down her own government.
In the event that happened and we entered political limbo - who would have the right to negotiate / request an extension on the leaving date with the EU (which i assume they'd grant in that case)
I think if there was no-confidence vote and subsequent GE then Parly would vote for extension to A50 before dissolution – EU would agree
with no government there's no way to do that, no-one can propose the legislation, no-one can timetable the debate and vote. With no government there is no parliament under our system.
Lets be under no illusions about what takes periority here.
Holding the Tory party together and in power is of far far more importance toMay than the nations economic prosperity. It was why Cameron did this in the first place and, to use her own phrase: "nothing has changed"
Does make you wonder if any single Tory is now getting fed up they would throw the arty to the lions if the plan b was bollocks and they did another no vote .
Surely the logical way out – as its the only thing that can possibly command a parliamentary majority – is a soft Brexit which would definitely involve staying in the customs union, and probably the single market.
So the solution is for May to implement labour party policy? On this I can wholeheartedly agree with you 🙂
bludgeoning being the usual British tactic
Have we tries talking v e r y s l o w l y and shouting VERY LOUDLY? That usually works with foreigners.
Does make you wonder if any single Tory is now getting fed up they would throw the arty to the lions if the plan b was bollocks and they did another no vote .
Tory bashing aside i don't think there's anyone on either side of the house would do that, it wouldn't achieve anything anyway and their loyalty is ultimately to the hand that feeds them, and that's not the electorate.
Anyone who did it would be out in their ear after brexit looking at burgeoning unemployment with only MP inn their CV and they're not exactly employable after office these days, let alone when the competition for jobs goes up.
Realistically unless May steps down she is our only hope, which says more about the sorry state of this than anything else. For all the talk of ERG blowing their chance to oust her it's looking increasingly like something of a coup, they're edging closer to getting their way and there's now zero chance to get a more maliable (or anti brexit) candidate in and they all survive to fight over the ashes afterwards with less damage than if they'd been at the helm (becuase they'd have done it better you know)
Have we tries talking v e r y s l o w l y and shouting VERY LOUDLY? That usually works with foreigners./blockquote>
i think that was how Clarke summed up Davis' negotiations.
Crikey … still fighting amongst each others.
I thought I have come back to peace and tranquillity after 5 weeks away.
There are always things that will unite people - your reappearance for example.
But, no matter what Jezza or the rest of us would like, there’s only one game in town right now… Brexit. Because everything else hinges on this. You can’t instigate an enormous investment programme in building a fairer society if your tax revenues go through the floor
Is what I have been saying all along. It doesn't matter what other policies you have - assuming they are going to be for common good - they are 99.9999999% likely to need investment. A No Deal or Hard Brexit blows all other progressive policies out of the window because there won't be the money to pay for them.
Sad to say, this nonsense really is the only game in town right now, because if we screw this up you might as well rip up all the 5-10 year plans and start again. With a much lower number and lots more minus signs.
Surely the logical way out – as its the only thing that can possibly command a parliamentary majority – is a soft Brexit
No, I think it's 2nd ref.
Surely the logical way out – as its the only thing that can possibly command a parliamentary majority – is a soft Brexit which would definitely involve staying in the customs union, and probably the single market.
So the solution is for May to implement labour party policy? On this I can wholeheartedly agree with you 🙂
That isn't labour party poolicy though, is it?
Labour policy is to remain in A customs union but not THE customs union, retain tariff-free access to the single market, without being a member of the single market and to end freedom of movement
Complete cake-and-eat-it cloud-cuckooland nonsense, that would be laughed out of Brussels in 5 minutes and we'd be right back where we are now
You may want to belive othewise, but Jezzas 'policy' is just as much 'Magical Thinking' as David Davis's
You may want to belive othewise, but Jezzas ‘policy’ is just as much ‘Magical Thinking’ as David Davis’s
That's unfair, jezza's policy is hard brexit by misdirection, obsfucation and calculated support/opposition to government policy. It's going rather well for him on that. You've said as much your self. It's not the same as labour policy. 😉
Christ. So she has booted the can down the road AGAIN!
Corbyn is no doubt to blame for that...
Ironically, the best chance of May's deal succeeding may be a 2nd referendum ...
Corbyn is no doubt to blame for that…
Well he could have whipped against as opposed to for the time table way back when. He could have opposed the three weeks to come back to parliament back when it would have been binding. So no not his fault but he's had plenty of opportunity to try and mitigate it so far from blameless. At this point it's a lot like Pontius Pilate washing his hands.
Quite what anyone expected I'm not sure. Unless she comes back with something singularly abhorrent on Monday and losses they subsequent no confidence vote and is replaced by grieve or the like relying largely on support from labour and a few like minded conservatives this is just going to trundle on until March when we'll end up with May's deal as the least worst option.
Trouble is that you have no one with influence to lead the Remain side.
Remain marches and protest should take place every week.
Having no desire to watch one, let alone all of those, could you sumarrise please?
Complete cake-and-eat-it cloud-cuckooland nonsense, that would be laughed out of Brussels in 5 minutes and we’d be right back where we are now
It's a statement of what Labour wants. Same as when you go to buy a car you have a statement of what you want - heated seats, parking sensors etc. Doesn't mean that you will get them. Whereas the Tories show up to the dealership not sure if they want an Alfa or a Ford Transit
Whereas the Tories show up to the dealership not sure if they want an Alfa or a Ford Transit
The Tories have been very clear - they want something sporty, like a Porsche 911, but with the load carrying capacity of the Transit. And heated seats. And a free child seat for BoJo.
It’s a statement of what Labour wants. Same as when you go to buy a car you have a statement of what you want – heated seats, parking sensors etc. Doesn’t mean that you will get them. Whereas the Tories show up to the dealership not sure if they want an Alfa or a Ford Transit
The Labour list of wants is no more or less possible.
To use your own analogy they want a hot hatch with 7 seats, top speed of 200mph, 90mpg and so on, they haven't spoken to the dealer yet because he's busy with the Tories who want a transit van AND an alpha Romeo but can only pay for one and hope if they drag it out long enough the dealer will just give in. Meanwhile Labour are pointing out to anyone who will listen the ridiculousness of the Tory request whilst wondering if they should also ask for a tail lift on their 7 seat fiesta.
The Labour list of wants is no more or less possible.
It may not be realistic as an outcome, but at least it doesn't contain mutually exclusive elements.
End to FoM, but keeping EEA quality Single Market access.
Outside the EU's Customs Union, but having a say in the EU's trade deals with other third countries.
Cake
And
Eat
It
None of those things is mutually exclusive though Kelvin, they just require the things the EU say we can only have in the EU to be made available to us outside of the EU. That's nothing at all like the Tories who want to be in and out at the same time.
?
Ah, sarcasm, I hope.
I got the impression that the Labour demands were simply a tool to castigate the Tories with. If they gained power, I'd expect them to come back with either/or options and let parliament vote on them.
I don't think they'd just wander in demanding things that they know are impossible then simply scratching their heads when they don't get them. Even May wasn't that stupid in the end.
Sorry i was hoping the letters on my post would self animate to show them dripping with sarcasm.
Sorry, hard to tell when people are being serious when defending this kind of "logic". I got it a few seconds after posting. My edit will show up eventually…
Ultimately, some people believe Labour Brexit will be a success because Tories aren't involved… even if the red lines and contradictory requirements are pretty much the same.
Well, to be fair, Corbyn is bound to get a much better reception in Brussels having been so commplimentary about the EU for decades
.
I got the impression that the Labour demands were simply a tool to castigate the Tories with. If they gained power, I’d expect them to come back with either/or options and let parliament vote on them.
If they were then in my opinion not only is it a complete dereliction of their duty to provide an oposition (vs just to oppose) but it's incredibly misjudged for the reason below.
I don't give them that much credit though - the Labour demands are so very very close to a lot of the "German cars, it'll be fine" pro brexit cramp promises during the referendum it's hard not to see them as a deliberate continuation of that "promise" it does nothing but to galvanize support for an impossible brexit amongst brexiteers at large when they're repeatedly told by the both the Tory right and Labour that this is not only achieve achievable but should be easy. Yes it makes the government look incompetent (as though help were needed) but it deliberately undermines the chances of securing a reasonable compromise which will be accepted by either side.
Well, to be fair, Corbyn is bound to get a much better reception in Brussels having been so commplimentary about the EU for decades
He's not anti European, some of his best friends are European.
Indeed. They're just perpetuating the same nonsense cake-and-eat-it myth that got us in this mess in the first place.
The trouble is that if they did get into power, they're going to have to deliver on it, but as we've seen it can't possibly be delivered. Not even anything remotely resembling it.
There's a section of the British population that have effectively been infantilised by being fed a succession of complete cobblers that only exists in bent lying politicians minds
Sooner or later someone's going to have to tell them that theres no santa and they can't have a pet unicorn
He’s not anti European, some of his best friends are European.
Especially since Israel got into Eurovision.
And she is insisting that a referendum and change of exit date is put “back in the table” as well, as did Cable. Lucas is over there now, presumably making the same point.
And she did…
https://twitter.com/carolinelucas/status/1085848806636351493?s=21
So that's the first three steps* that SNP, LibDems and Lucas see as essential…
1) rule out no deal
2) consider a second referendum
3) delay our exit
2&3 go hand in hand… can Labour get on board now? Just stating 1, without pushing for anything that delays, and/or could stop, our exit, is meaningless. There is no magic alternative withdrawl agreement that can be arrived at this month, and May's does not have the support of Parliament or the public.
(*not the steps I want, but the only ones that can win cross party support and potentially get us out of this hole)
Chewkw,how did you wangle the early release? Surely not good behaviour?
My mind is blank at the moment apart from catching up with backlog of works. LOL!
Haven't followed the Brexit development since my holiday 5 weeks ago. 😀
The government has produced "a very short paper setting out the factual detail on the number of months required" to hold another referendum, Downing Street has said.
This was "produced to inform the expected discussion" with the MPs who have been to see the PM and other ministers.
A government source told me it suggests "in excess of a year" would be needed before another referendum.
From the BBC's Chris Mason
This sounds ideal then. Especially as apparently we've just reached the exact day when the demographic changes of 'natural wastage' and the enfranchisement of new young voters (even if everyone else voted exactly the same) should mean a remain victory.
Every month that passes is a little knife in the heart of Nigel Farage.
Until then, delay, delay, delay.
If they were then in my opinion not only is it a complete dereliction of their duty to provide an oposition
It was a good start, but then it petered out.
They’re just perpetuating the same nonsense cake-and-eat-it myth that got us in this mess in the first place.
They don't have a lot of choice.
1) They can't go against Brexit because they'll never get into power. And they want power to get a chance to deliver social justice which let's not forget is also important, as well as EU membership.
2) They can't advocate soft Brexit, because they'll lose a load of votes in the same way as 1.
3) They can't advocate a May style deal because it's shite and no-one will vote for it as demonstrated.
4) They can't tell all Brexit voters they're thick and ignore the result, because the Tories didn't - see 1.
5) They can't go for no deal because everyone else will realise it's suicide.
As I said - they haven't got a lot of options. 2nd ref is the only one IMO but even that will cost them votes at the next GE and possibly the next four or five GEs, perhaps on the scale of the Lib Dem destruction.
I'd love to see binners get them out of this jam.
The problem there is a simple numbers one though, the greens, snp and lib dems don't, between them, have enough seats to make any difference, even if May managed to bring every non erg Tory and the DUP onside. The only people able to help here are Labour and their leadership at least won't.
No deal off the table is all well and good but, the only way that works is no brexit. That only works if it's got massive cross party support because everyone has to be willing to explain why it happened, why it had to happen and that whether it was Maybot, BoJo, Nige or St jezza in charge the outcome would have been the same, it can't be someone's or some party's fault.
You can't have no "no deal" and another referendum, not least as it's the only alternative to go on the ballot at the moment. If we're going to be allowed a choice it has to be a possible choice, if only to establish that the public (hopefully) categorically don't want it which means STV/AV and not only massive defeat for no deal but for all those leavers who didn't place it first to actually place it dead last, behind remain.
It has to be accepted that if brexit is a must, no deal has to be a possibility as we won't necessarily get a deal we're happy to accept and Europe won't allow us to drag it out for ever, eventually It will be a binary choice. It pains me to say it but no deal really is better than a bad deal (e.g. managed no deal currently being mooted by some nuts, hand over all the cash but walk away with nothing and no guarantees of anything except what smattering of goodwill we've not already pissed all over.)
2nd ref is the only one IMO but even that will cost them votes at the next GE and possibly the next four or five GEs, perhaps on the scale of the Lib Dem destruction.
Take solace in the fact it'll cost the Tories twice as dear.
Take back control. Stop asking the EU for favours. Cancel A50. Plan to leave without a transition period. Put your plan to the vote. Trigger A50 if you get approval, but only once you're sure you'll be ready to be a third country 2 years after triggering it.
If we're not ready to Leave in this quarter, of this year, hit the stop button, right now.
Hard for any politican to propose this and "keep support", but it's time someone led.
They’re just perpetuating the same nonsense cake-and-eat-it myth that got us in this mess in the first place.
Think I've said it before and I'll say it again. The trouble with all this frothing about unicorns, cake and eat it etc is that it comes from the belief that brexit isn't possible and should be reversed. I'm not going to argue with that as I pretty much agree. However this is also in complete denial of the fact that the people have voted and it needs to be enacted.
Reversing brexit and honouring the referendum result is no more possible than being in the single market and ending freedom of movement. Both May and Corbyn have made the decision that ignoring the referendum result is a non-starter for obvious reasons. You may well disagree with this and many do, however you can't argue that it's not the right position if they want to preserve any chances of them being in government in the future.
No doubt then everyone will cry that they are 'playing party politics', which is a pretty daft thing to say. They're politicians, that's what they're paid to do. It's like accusing a train driver of 'playing at train driving' like it's a bad thing.
If a vote is procured by illegal means is the vote valid?
It almost feels like they should've worked out how we would leave Europe before holding a referendum... almost...
However this is also in complete denial of the fact that the people have voted and it needs to be enacted.
A vote for what? A wish to Leave? We need to see a plan, that tells government departments what they need to have ready, and when. That tells companies what to prepare for, and when. That tells people living outside their country what to prepare for, and when. And put that to a public vote. Get a mandate for a plan of action, not a wish.
Get a mandate for a plan of action, not a wish.
Lets hold a referendum to give everyone everything that they ask for, and see how that works out
Hard for any politican to propose this and “keep support”, but it’s time someone led.
It almost feels like they should’ve worked out how we would leave Europe before holding a referendum… almost…
This is the crux IMO. The situation is begging for someone with some guts, some profile and the interests of the country at heart to stand up and say 'You know what? We're not ready to leave at this moment in time. Let's revoke A50 and then actually sit down and work out what we do want if we leave." Once that's sorted we can have another vote (either parliamentary or - more desirable - a referendum) based on some facts. It'll then be time to invoke A50 again... Or not...
I'd rather we remain, but if the process was a sound one, I'd accept the wishes of 'the people'. This process so far has not been sound...
"dazh
However this is also in complete denial of the fact that the people have voted and it needs to be enacted."
But as we see over and over, there's a tiny majority (of votes cast) for brexit but there was never a majority for any particular brexit. Since the different possible and impossible brexits are often contradictory, any brexit can only ever satisfy some brexit voters, and will disatisfy all remainers and some brexit voters.
Or in other words, the majority was for brexit but any possible brexit has the support of the minority. It is impossible for brexit to satisfy "the will of the people" or to respect the votes of all those that voted brexit.
The people proving this point most strongly, are the strongest of brexiteers, who keep refusing to take yes for an answer and declaring that the brexit on offer isn't brexity enough, or isn't brexit at all. They alone disprove the idea that the referendum can be "honoured"
(I nearly said falsify there but then I remembered how annoying it was when THM used to do that)
So that’s the first three steps* that SNP, LibDems and Lucas see as essential…
1) rule out no deal
2) consider a second referendum
3) delay our exit2&3 go hand in hand… can Labour get on board now?
Labour have been on board with 2&3 since the conference last year: they “support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Hard for any politican to propose this and “keep support”, but it’s time someone led.
The Lib Dems have been "leading" with this position for the last year. Latest Yougov poll puts them at 11%. It's a nice idea, but no-one is going to get into power with this stance. And you have to be in power to be able to actually enact any of your plans.
1) They can’t go against Brexit because they’ll never get into power. And they want power to get a chance to deliver social justice which let’s not forget is also important, as well as EU membership.
If the polls suggested Labour were just slightly ahead I could understand this comment, but as they are continually languishing behind the worst performing inept government in living memory I just can't agree with your comment. It's simply staggering that Labour aren't 10-12 points ahead of the hateful pro-Brexit tories.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/sunday/brexit-ireland-empire.html
NYT "the chumocrats"
A perspective from the outsie
If "Brexit" was a movie I was watching, I'd have walked out of the cinema by now in frustration.
"Leave" promised the world, without having to define what "The World" would actually be, just saying that it would be "amazingly better". They either really believed that the EU would give the almighty British Empire whatever it wanted, or they knew all along that the EU wouldn't, and are just feigning surprise / indignation now.
"Remain" couldn't raise a sensible argument against leaving. Whenever they did try they were shouted down by the very vocal and social-media proficient team of Brexiters (or possibly Russians - who knows?) who used, amongst other things, misleading banners on busses etc, which they 'fessed up to the day after the vote.
A huge chunk of the British Public were, apparently, too busy on the day of voting to even bother to vote - allowing a mere 17 million people to determine the fate of 66 million people.
Not even Steven Spielberg could have made this movie watchable.
(pls excuse the light hearted "summarising" of the facts)
🙂
The trouble with all this frothing about unicorns, cake and eat it etc is that it comes from the belief that brexit isn’t possible and should be reversed.
I'm not sure about that, I'm firmly of the cake and eat it camp but i don't think brexit isn't possible or must be stopped.
I'd like to see if reversed but I'm far from convinced it's a viable let alone sensible idea.
I am though firmly of the idea that a brexit which delivers everything which is being promised isn't possible, and that continuing to pretend it is is distinctly harmful for our democracy.
The sooner those in charge start being honest on all sides the better, it might change the general outlook but i don't hold much hope it will change it in favour of remain, what it will do though is give fair warning that this is going to hurt to the huge numbers who still think this can go brilliantly and are otherwise going to end up further divorced from the political process than they already were.
The majority of the leavers i know really cgas about the deal, they're fed up with politicians who seemingly don't represent them, lie and connive at every turn and continually come up smelling of roses when they dump on the rest of us. They don't see Europeas worse or different and given the choice they'd get rid of Westminster too, they may be in the minority nationally but I don't think they are and when brexit turns out to not make things better and deliver everything they've been promised they'll be even more pissed off and startlooking for the populist hypernationalist swap drainers that will appear by the dozen post leave to fix it.
If “Brexit” was a movie I was watching,
It'd be dr Strangelove really wouldn't it? I imagine JRM would fit elements of the eponymous role well, and i don't know about you but I'd pay to see BoJo riding to his oblivion.
Breaking:
From the Telegraph webby...
Hammond: Don't miss our exclusive, which suggests that a no-deal Brexit could be taken off the table within days, and Article 50 even “rescinded”
"The trouble with all this frothing about unicorns, cake and eat it etc is that it comes from the belief that brexit isn’t possible and should be reversed. "
Not at all. Brexit is totally possible, I think it's fair to say practically nobody thinks otherwise. It's just, some people are realistic about the reality of it and what it would actually mean- and that's where cake and eat it has been shown to be the goal over and over, and unicorns have been shown to be the solution to problems that need an answer that isn't mythical.
Some, perhaps most brexits are impossible. The "easiest deal in history" brexit is impossible, the "hold all the cards" brexit is impossible, getting May's deal past parliament is impossible, a jobs first brexit is impossible. Brexit isn't impossible, it's actually pretty easy, as long as you don't care about anything else.
Sky coverage of the whole sorry affair has been remarkably unirritating. And Boulton has indeed done a good job. Balanced enough not to have one side or the other cancelling subscriptions and biased enough to reflect a Europe-wide buisness model.
Breaking:
From the Telegraph webby…
Hammond: Don’t miss our exclusive, which suggests that a no-deal Brexit could be taken off the table within days, and Article 50 even “rescinded”
HERE
It will be may telling us she's happy to listen to everyone whilst not doing anything different I'm kind of starting to think she's delivering strong and stable in spades
Balanced enough not to have one side or the other cancelling subscriptions
Easy because they show the footy innit?
Brexit is possible.
A good Brexit is impossible.
Therefore stop Brexit. Sooner or later someone is going to have to tell the gammons the truth.
https://twitter.com/bozmack/status/1085476902452776961?s=19
Nice little summary of the whole sorry mess.
He suggests that this is a series of unlikely events… where as many of us suggested that it would go this way from the moment it was clear that the LibDems would be punished for the coalition (not the Tories) and that Farage would always be on the TV/Radio more often than all the Tory cabinet put together.
A good Brexit is impossible.
Therefore stop Brexit. Sooner or later someone is going to have to tell the gammons the truth.
I think you forget that for a great many people on the otherside of the argument brexit, any brexit, is a good brexit.
They need be told the truth certainly but that there is no good brexit is as much a lie as far as there concerned as 350 million to the NHS is to you. It needs to be made apparent it's going to hurt and there won't be any miracles but frankly that's not the same thing as saying it's "bad"
He suggests that this is a series of unlikely events…
Well it was to those people who never speak to anyone outside their own echo chamber and now persist in thinking it's all "gamons" who voted brexit so they don't have to change their opinions either.
I think you forget that for a great many people on the otherside of the argument brexit, any brexit, is a good brexit.
In the majority of cases they only think it is. These people can now only be classified as ‘thick’.
There are only three basic classes of people who still want Brexit.
1. Political wreckers. This includes, to a certain extent, Corbyn. They want a ‘damned good shake up’ so that more extreme politics can become acceptable. This mostly means the far right, but there are some for whom it means the far left.
2. Profiteers. From the short-term speculators to the ‘entrepreneurs’ gathering funds to ‘step into the breach’ now or just circling the NHS like a hyena, a lot of already rich and well-connected people stand to make a killing. But when I say ‘a lot’ I mean ‘too many’. In the grand scheme of things they are small in number but big in influence.
3. Peckerheads. No further explanation needed.
In this childish new world I actually have a feeling that if a politician came along and actually said this stuff, stopped Brexit and then mooned Tommy Robinson in public they’d serve at least two full terms. Got to be worth a shot.
They need be told the truth certainly but that there is no good brexit is as much a lie
What does it look like?
How do we get it?
Who is best to get it for us?
+
Can it be done by March?
Or should we revoke A50 and then get on with preparing for it?
What does it look like?
To me there is no good option, they're all bad for various reasons. What ever it looks like it won't look like we were told during the referendum.
For many leavers it looks like no ecj, no eu parliament, no vast sums of money being sent to Brussels (regardless of what then happens to it) and so on, it could look like unicorns or it could look like the hardest brexit possible. The good/bad bit isn't for many people job security, business growth, inflation etc its out, pure and simple.
How do we get it?
Just out isn't hard
Who is best to get it for us?
Can it be done by March?
Anyone and yes because assuming we don't revoke/delay article 50 it will happen at the end of March regardless.
Or should we revoke A50 and then get on with preparing for it?
I'd love us to (though i imagine we might rapidly find our rights to submit article 50 being changed and that any deal available is much worse next time around so prepping might be a bit difficult)
The problem is we by and large think it's just shouting louts who still want brexit, it's really really not, and a lot of those people do just want to leave. They see limited or no benefit, they live in areas which already have high unemployment, poor education, no social mobility and so on. They're not stupid they're just already live the reality your worried brexit will bring.