[quote=teamhurtmore ]The Irish border is interesting given that it is a problem without an obvious solution*, other than a sensible application of [s]technology[/s] fairies which could have wider benefits
You might as well write that until you can provide us with more details - it's about that level in your head I presume (hint: some of us here work in technology/IT, and we're probably the most sceptical)
* why do we think the EU are insisting on placing this ahead of other issues in the scheduling
Because it's the most difficult and most important problem.
I can see two very simple solutions:
1. We don't leave the EU - so no border needed.
or
2. We pull out of NI - so no border needed.
Or we have an honesty box on the border.
this is exactly what we all think when we look at our Brexit team and we analyse their successes to date on a variety of complicated issues.we get to see smart people moving forward, bring solutions
I am sure crapita will knock out a proof of concept in a couple of weeks.
The only things capita are capable of knocking out in that time scale are large invoices. 😆
But what about the 70 million turks camped on the border waiting to rush across to claim their free houses?
Of course the EU might build a big **** off wall to keep us out.
It's all very well The Zombie Maygot saying what she wants but ultimately it's up to the Mainlanders what they want to give us.
Personally I think the EU army should invade to save us EU citizens in peril.
The only things capita are capable of knocking out in that time scale are large invoices.
Thats unfair.
They will also be able to knock out a contract ensuring they keep the cash when it doesnt quite go to plan.
You can just imagine the conversations that have gone on between David Davis, Liam Fox and the [s]Snake Oil Salesmen[/s] IT consultants about their [s]magic beans[/s] Border Enforcement 9000 Megabot
A more cross party approach could have all this cleared up in no time....
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In fairness, that was a generalised comment, not a proposed solution to a tricky problem.
Do you think he realises that smart factories mean fewer workers?
Per factory that is.
Not saying that's right or wrong of course.
Generally, using fewer workers per factory means more factories are possible, making more stuff, and growing the economy.
We definitely need more stuff. If we have more stuff, and magic borders, I'm voting for that
More seriously, on your comment THM on why start with the Irish border - I'd assume one would struggle to have sensible trade talks without defining first where you are trading from and to, and defining how open that border is is part of that surely.
How do you do talks about UK-EU trade when everyone is wondering what happens if you can just bypass customs by shipping via Ireland?
Moly - that is true to a fair degree (I think generally true is about right), but is a little to the right of Corbyn's normal position.
http://news.sky.com/story/next-phase-of-brexit-talks-likely-delayed-to-december-sky-sources-10991514
Looks very much like the Germans are pushing for a delay in Brexit talks and predictably (for me) a much bigger direct role. With their elections in September they will not form a Government till a month later - so nothing much of substance can be agreed. Headline quotes from politicians there about needing to avoid WTO - trust in the Commission to deliver is fading. Schwable's ultra pro EU stance and campaign has faded from being tied with Merkel to now dropping back substantially as she reinforces a move "rightwards"
The EU Commission is about self preservation. The Germans are much more pragmatic. WTO on cars could see a 24% swing in pricing German vs Japanese cars if (when) we agree tariff free deal with Japan focusing on Hybrids ? [b]Germany is looking to bypass EU stubborness IMO[/b]
Another great example of ridiculous tariffs emerged as imports to the EU of tinned peaches are taxed at 75% to protect Italian growers. We don't care as we don't grow them, we can agree much lower tariffs outside the EU, support developing nations for example.
We definitely need more stuff.
We do, because our economic and political model depends on it.
But we don't, because it's ****ing the world.
Sorting that dilemma out will be far more difficult than Brexit.
So we are going to undermine the 94bn UK car production industry with tariff free imports from Japan?
I find it funny that the disaster of partition has caused such a problem nearly 100 years on
Generally, using fewer workers per factory means more factories are possible, making more stuff, and growing the economy.
Which of course requires enough employed people with adequate supplies of disposal cash to buy said stuff.
Never mind that! Whats the Irish Sea going to look like once it becomes the main route for smuggling swag and booty over the border into the EU?
AAAAARRRRRRRR
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On the 'technology' angle, my mate's wife is director of an IT company that does a lot of this type of government work - if there even was the remotest chance of a clearly-defined requirement, manageable technological risk, a reasonable budget, a workable contract and sufficiently skilled workforce to deliver this, it's still a massive ask to have this by 2020. Some IT companies are downsizing their UK operations in the face of dwindling work.
dovebiker - Member
On the 'technology' angle, my mate's wife is director of an IT company that does a lot of this type of government work - if there even was the remotest chance of a clearly-defined requirement, manageable technological risk, a reasonable budget, a workable contract and sufficiently skilled workforce to deliver this, it's still a massive ask to have this by 2020. Some IT companies are downsizing their UK operations in the face of dwindling work.
Indeed.
I'll take it further- I [i]design[/i] these services for customers where digital manifests are presented from moving objects (vehicles) as they cross boundaries, and the lead time for even smaller-scale deployments is considerable.
We build in, with the customers understanding, long lead times for testing. Radio is just like that. Think of the telepeage systems in France- the vehicles have to be almost stationary and very close to sensors for the system to work, unless ANPR is used, and there's no cross-Europe system for that.
2020 would be well beyond ambitious. And then there's the question of: who pays? In the absence of Europe-wide ANPR, every vehicle crossing in and out would need a declaration device where the manifest is transferred over radio to a receiver. One of these in every vehicle? Costly.
And then there's the logistics of the backhaul network deployment. Coincidentally, I've been deploying a network recently that straddles NI and Eire, and the border area alone is very hard to cover.
Irish border will look like this:
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Most sensible so far
f border control, on this scale doesn't actually exist yet, but given the government's previously superb record on delivering groundbreaking, innovative large-scale IT schemes, on time and on budget, I can't see why this all won't be in place in a year or s
Indeed it is a major problem and to repeat no surprise that EU use it as a delaying tactic.
Public sector delivery on iT - poor agreed
Does Davis known the answer - v much doubt it
DO I - certainly not
The known, knowns ^
Do we need a soft option - of course
WIll it involve a tech solution as trailed in Europe - most probably
ETA for delivery - who knows p, but not 2019
The known unknowns
Niw, let's find a solution because the issue isn't going away.
let's find a solution because the issue isn't going away.
There's a very, very, very easy solution.
Go on.... have a guess?
Clue: At present, the solution isn't required because 'the problem' doesn't exist! 😉
I am guessing it's involves heads and sands - correct ?
Or the constructive Varadkar initiative?
ETA for delivery - who knows p, but not 2019
thats the question but the Tories have a cutoff of before the next election when transition has to end.
staying in power trumps the realities of brexshit or good of the country
We can add that to the known, known a kimbers - it ain't going to happen
I may also be involved in this kind of work in the short term. Certainly something that's been discussed a lot with our products.
How much of our £350 million will this swallow up?
They will need to create a special department for this and they will need a logo and a catchy motto which will have to be dreamt up by the cream of our creative industry who just happen to be owned by a Tory MPs wife and then Zombie Maygot will change her mind and the whole thing will be a monumental **** up all paid for by "The Hard Working British Taxpayer".
How much of our £350 million will this swallow up?
The Register is reporting that Defra is recruiting 1400 policy people to handle its increased work load after brexit so dont think there will be a lot left for this minor IT project.
[quote=matt_outandabout ]Irish border will look like this:
Fixed:
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Be fair that's only £70m.
Mind you we're only saving just over £100m aren't we? 😉
I am guessing it's involves heads and sands - correct ?
No, just give NI to the Republic, if the Republic don't want NI, no longer the rUK's problem.
Sort the hung parliament thing nicely too - oh wait a minute...
lets recap :
No border checks .
No visas for EU citizens .
are you sure you are leaving ? 😆
Well I don't know about anyone else but I feel so much more in control.
are you sure you are leaving ?
Did they say anything about exit documentation for UK citizens? Can't be having people taking skills away with them.
are you sure you are leaving ?
It's hard(ly) Brexit.
No, just give NI to the Republic, if the Republic don't want NI, no longer the rUK's problem.
😯
THM, just looking at ways to solve the border issue. About as well planned a solution as most others cropping up.
Anyone else finding they are getting more calls from European companies looking to headhunt?
Have had 2 in the last week for very interesting roles