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I'd love to be interviewing some of the **** wits now.
We have given your mental brexit ideas over 2 years of consideration - they are all SHIT!!!!!! All of them, they contradict each other, you can't agree on anything but yet you still want to be respected!
Voting on your shit house deals will be entirely fair, I actually like the idea of multiple non binding votes in parliament to hear some of the truly bat shit crazy stuff come out and be laughed out of town.
The only hope is that it depressingly veers this way and that until we can get to a point where intelligent and clear thinking can eventually find a way in. Somehow.
Brexiteers are looking down the barrels of a no deal scenario and thinking this is fine and what they actually wanted/voted for. These people should not be in charge of anything. No deal would be a car crash for the UK way beyond the current carnage.
The leavers clearly voted for something - a protest vote, a dislike of foreigners, a sense of despair and lack of 'control'. Their issue are real and need a response. They need a vision of the UK they can believe in. Fair enuff. But pitching the UK into a no deal nosedive won't do this. It's just bad decision making.
Scarily, I listened to a phone in this morning, and some of these tards seem to think no deal is basically the status quo.
Jesus wept.
Nice little revealing snippet there on channel 4 news.
That Brexit is referred to in Whitehall as ‘The Bonfire of the Sanity’s’
Funny, in a bleak ‘we’re all doomed’ kind of way. Imagine having to deal with this ****-wittery on a daily basis
Meanwhile, Jacob rich snob now has confidence in the PM after losing his own no confidence drive.
Anything to keep labour out I suppose, party before politics and all that.
https://news.sky.com/story/jacob-re...dence-after-winning-vote-of-tory-mps-11584302
Maybot knows if she can get pigs in blankets to become full gammon by saying if it doesnt happen your all in shit street she can win the public honest... Turkeys assemble its christmas
Wow JRM is certainly special there, how he can keep a straight face saying all that amazes me.
So, May is putting all her weight behind the deal and being totally anti 2nd ref. But the rest of parliament is moving towards 2nd ref, which puts May against a huge cross-section of parliament. And she's not showing any tendency to compromise. This could definitely get interesting.
It would be an amusing game of chicken if we weren't locked into the car with the bitch as she hurtles towards the cliff edge.
And she’s not showing any tendency to compromise.
[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2241/2272105707_1bf783609e_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2241/2272105707_1bf783609e_z.jp g"/> ?zz=1[/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/4sM8Sk ]Backflip 3[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/tezzr/ ]Terry Russell[/url], on Flickr
Never compromise.....
What scares me is if we end up with no deal, and the resulting chaos.
Just imagine the nasty, toxic, anti-EU bile that will spill forth from the brexiteers and their rabid right wing ****-nuts in the press, busy blaming the EU for their own ‘cake and eat it’ failings? With an eager, shit-thick, racist receptive audience? How it’s Brussels punishing us plucky Brits. Showing no gratitude for bailing them out in the Second World War, blah, blah, blah....
We’re heading for populist, hard right evidence-free, fascism. Hurray!
In the same way the Cameron was too stupid to see what genie he may be releasing from the bottle, May is doubling down in that by indulging these lunatics
I still don't think May is playing for remain but I struggle to imagine what's going through her mind right now.
What confuses me about corbyns stance is why go for a meaningless VONC when he could have gone for a contempt of parliament motion for delaying the so called 'meaningful vote'?
What did the last contempt vote achieve?
who knows about parliamentary process? What happens if govt allows a vote on Corbyn's VONC?
And don't anyone say "if Theresa May loses then she will feel obliged to stand down" because we all know she won't.
Well indeed, normally it would be scandalous and very damaging, but in this abnormal situation it seems to be a case of "whatevs".
What’s confusing you is your assumption that Corbyn has a ‘stance’ that is any different from John Redwoods
He wants Brexit, the harder the better. Always has, always will. So is happy to sit back and watch May deliver it, unencumbered by anything remotely resembling an opposition. And the Momentum mob are still refusing to accept this intrusion of reality on their sixth form common room dreams, so are just sort of going along with it in the absence of being capable of independent thought, or 3 years of staunchly solid evidence that their messiah is a hardcore Brexiteer.
LA LA LAAAAAA... WE’RE NOT LISTENING
And somehow this will end up delivering a socialist utopia
No.... me neither
Idiots. Total *ing morons! Who are just as complicit in this *ing shambles as ****ing Farage
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1074758542673018882
Apparently we do see it debated.
It's non binding but it's taking her apart one step at a time, now she has the snivelling ERG pretending to have support for her.
What did the last contempt vote achieve?
Exactly - just days ago the government was found in contempt of parliament for the first time ever. Plenty of people speculated that maybe this would prompt the Maybot to resign. She completely ignored it. What's to stop her completely ignoring a parliamentary VONC if there are no procedures to compel her otherwise?
May has her exit strategy sorted after all her "joan of Arc" tribute act only has to last until spring.
JC is shit scared of messing up a Brexit that he desperatly wants hence the "paper tiger" approach.
I dont have the words to express the sheer misery of this, but a French acquaintance (who is a bit of a Madame Penn supporter) on a recent phone call could not stop pissing himself laughing.
We have no credibility anywhere, we are a soft target for Trump who i am sure will rip us a new arsehole and claim its a "great" trade deal.
I am lost utterly lost... i have become bitter and twisted and vengeful, which is not good as i bear a grudge indefinitely.
Just when I was thinking things couldn't get more esoteric...
Theresa may: "hold my beer"
essentially the Norway deal would be carrying on as we are now, just without any say in the EU…
Chaps, just to reiterate, Norway is outside the Customs Union. That is very far from carrying on as we are now, indeed.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1074769015820742657
and back the other way..... maybe a little counting error
This is all truly depressing. What a bunch of bairny b******s.
A piece of utterly pointless and totally ineffectual posturing by Corbyn?
Surely not?
Still... I bet him calling for it at the despatch box looked absolutely brilliant in the Canary’s Twitter feed, so everything is at one with the world in Corbynland and the common room
I dunno it's pointless. It's destroyed the ERG's credibility in a way that's a matter of fact now rather than opinion.
so everything is at one with the world in Corbynland and the common room
I bow down to your knowledge of school room politics.
Although if the maybot did use the line that Kuenssberg says that knackers her will of the people thing up because guess what else had no status?
The ERG had any credibility left? Have you missed the last 2 weeks?
Well there is that, the tail was wagging the dog to some extent with the ERG. But does it really mean anything.. We knew that already.
Chaps, just to reiterate, Norway is outside the Customs Union. That is very far from carrying on as we are now, indeed.
Norway means hard border, it screws Dover, it doesn't solve the Irish border. You need SM membership to avoid border.
Think you mean CU there. But whatever, it's all just mindless entertainment while the clock runs down.
The ERG had any credibility left? Have you missed the last 2 weeks?
They still had credibility with some people, now they just backflipped and signed up to May's plan 😉
Bloody snakes.. But that's no supprise.
In fact to call them snakes is an injustice to snakes. Snakes are very predictable. Snakes have integrity.
Theres still a big chink of the population think Brexit will be a wondrous thing
grown up journos actually stay stuff like this
https://twitter.com/allisonpearson/status/1074620236391960576
Im lost how can the govt not debate corbyns whateveritwas... Surely thats a decision for the speaker of the house.
With an eager, shit-thick, racist receptive audience? How it’s Brussels punishing us plucky Brits
Dont say that the shit thick arent THAT shit thick, definitely not fair on the shit thick
Every now and then I stop laughing at this debacle when I remember I'm a 3rd class passenger on this Titanic. To use the printable term, it's a right clusterburach. The USP of the Tories used to be competence, what's happened to them?
I just hope the SNP have Scotland's lifeboat ready.
That's why people are talking about Norway Plus. Possibly the most insane and yet most credible outcome to this whole mess.
Norway Plus would involve remaining in both the Single Market AND the Customs Union. Although naturally without having any say in the rules.
As far as I know, after rebates and what-not, Norway pays roughly 90% of what the UK does for access to the Single Market. It would not surprise me in the slightest if the UK ended up paying more than what it's paying now to follow all the rules it currently follows and have absolutely no say in those rules.
Politics is all about compromise, after all.
Every now and then I stop laughing at this debacle when I remember I’m a 3rd class passenger on this Titanic
Suggestion all, if any of the regulars end up going through a really shit time because of this - maybe we could all chip in to help out. Look after our own etc. I don't want to read that a poster has ended up homeless or something come March.
Norway pays roughly 90% of what the UK does for access to the Single Market. It would not surprise me in the slightest if the UK ended up paying more than what it’s paying now to follow all the rules it currently follows and have absolutely no say in those rules.
If it is proportionate to the size of your trading relationship, then we'd end up paying considerably more.
Im lost how can the govt not debate corbyns whateveritwas… Surely thats a decision for the speaker of the house.
Govt allocates time for debates. Presumably if Corbyn had table a VONC in the government as a whole, not just Theresa, then it would be debated and voted on.
Put up or shut up, Jezza. Must have seemed like a good idea to single out the PM, more chance of attracting ERG loons, but TBH it just looks like dithering. If you think you can get the votes, and you want to be PM, actually go for it.
Bit pathetic really.
Corbyn is playing political games. I don't think it is necessarily right to criticise him on this particular move. He knows he can't win a proper VONC right now.
The leavers clearly voted for something – a protest vote, a dislike of foreigners, a sense of despair and lack of ‘control’. Their issue are real and need a response. They need a vision of the UK they can believe in. Fair enuff. But pitching the UK into a no deal nosedive won’t do this. It’s just bad decision making.
Precisely this.
It is pathetic really, corbyn really needs to take a poop or get off the potty.
Scarily, I listened to a phone in this morning, and some of these tards seem to think no deal is basically the status quo.
Maybe we're missing a trick here. Could we perhaps spin "no deal" as remaining? A no deal leave and a no deal remain is still no deal, right?
The following was cited by a leaver on another forum as his concerns over the EU and why he voted leave;
here are a few of my concerns:
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed. (first veto to go will be on foreign policy - we adopt the EU's policy)
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty (the rebate is not a treaty condition so is negotiated every 7 years and is due for renegotiation in 2020. Already reduced to 12% from an original 20% with other member states wanting it either decreased significantly further or removed altogether)
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
It's all bollocks, but he claimed to believe it. It's rubbish like this that remain has to overturn.
This popped up on Facebook months ago. As you say, it's all bollocks. I think there's one true statement in the entire thing, though I forget which now.
Oh yeah,
"project fear" much?
The one true statement in that leaver's quote is probably the one about the London Stock Exchange moving to Frankfurt... because of Brexit.
On different tack, anyone thinking of the Norway model should note what several senior Norwegian politicians said in 2016 - along the lines that they could afford it because of their oil money, but it would be a disaster for the UK.
Put up or shut up, Jezza. Must have seemed like a good idea to single out the PM, more chance of attracting ERG loons
The ERG loon moggster has punted his scrawny two faced confidence vote behind maybot 2.0 in the light of jezmundos VONC
Is there no end to which these snivelling shithouses will go to circumvent each other
The ongoing uselessness of the total waste of space that is Jeremy Corbyn from the Irish Times
It would have been lovely to have had an actual opposition for the last few years, but instead we’ve got...
Even with 2nd référendum, who and what party will support Remain?
You are ****ed.
With a choice between Mays deal and remain, the stated preference of many is to remain. But I do share your concern.
It is pathetic really, corbyn really needs to take a poop or get off the potty.
And do what? You seem to have overlooked that there isn't a fag paper of difference between Maybot's deal and the Labour leadership. Corbyn is a "leaver". To think he will support a new referendum is delusion.
Ok lets just leave then and er well er
Like new zealand did re jig our economy for tourism, we have the infrastructure for that
Dont we?
I agree with DrJ and cchris2lou.
Corbyn had the opportunity to provide leadership to the country but has failed. Corbyn is a Brexiteer and knows that his party don't agree with him so is happy to let May **** the country.
A 2nd ref with produce bigger divisions within the UK. May will get her WA through parliament and then quit, the following General Election will be interesting as there will be nobody with a shred of decency left to vote for.
Sad times.
Basically decide in your head what Corbyn want but unless he does an under tha table deal with may and manages to whip his mp's it will make no difference.
No confidence in the pm exposes the DUP and erg properly as spineless duplicitous cretins (not everyone believed it before)
No confidence in the government would have failed at this point. That option is now saved until later.
Next up is mays vote on her deal, it's going to fail.
What happens next is very important, cabinet ministers are pushing for free votes, that is the time where no confidence is an option. That is when alternatives can be debated and if needed the parliamentary agenda needs removing from May. If she is shutting down here cabinet then she is in real. Trouble of losing a vonc.
As much as people hate the idea of another referendum beyond a conclusive vote in Parliament what is there. It is then where a sensible framing of the question is made and the deals explained in detail honestly.
I'll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point. I have asked this of the Corbyn haters several times and no one has given an answer other than banal generalities.
His party is as divided as the tories and he cannot risk losing a confidence vote.
So what would you have him do?
So what would you have him do?
Accept that hes never ever ever going to be PM by any election unless its by default and move on
I'd have Corbyn act in the best interest of those who voted for him. That would involve explaining to those that voted for him that the Tory oppostion was taking the uK down a path that would lead to hardship for the vast majority of Labour voters, and a removal of rights and a right to justice that are in their interest. I'd have him resign as his personal history is incompatible with leading a campaign to remain in the EU. I'd have him admit publicly that he had been wrong about Europe for the last 45 years because he had never bothered to consider the positive aspects of it for Labour voters and that the revelations of the past two years had brought him to his senses.
No chance, Corbyn is one of the enemy. A hard Brexiter, and that's unlikely to change in time to do any good.
Anything, something, anything at all, apart from the nothing he is doing doing at the moment. Lead the opposition party and challenge the government perhaps? His inaction might cost him dear at the next general election.
If TM as tory leader, is unable to lead the tories then she should quit. Should Jeremy do the same? Both political party's are an utter disgrace.
Call an actual VONC instead of whatever it was he called for? Throw himself behind a 2nd referendum? Aggressively back a series of free votes? Lay out an actual alternative plan (or just be ****ing honest and start pointing out the obvious that there is no alternative plan).
Do something, anything, just stop standing aside waiting for what he really wants which is a no deal brexit.
I’ll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point. I have asked this of the Corbyn haters several times and no one has given an answer other than banal generalities.
And I'll ask you, what has JC actually done in his time as leader of the opposition?. I'm not a Corbyn hater, I quite like the guy, he seems a genuinely decent guy, but in the bigger picture, he's seen as inept up against the worst Tory government in history. Quite an achievement, that.
Can you imagine John Smith, or even that **** Blair being as irrelevant as leader of the official opposition? No, me neither.
Anything, something, anything at all, apart from the nothing he is doing doing at the moment.
Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing and this is one of those times. He is in the same position as May with a split electorate meaning whatever he does is wrong. I think Labour have done well generally by letting Tories dig themselves deeper and deeper. If/when an election opportunity arises Labour can then do what they did last time and build up support but now against a Tory party that would have less support due to the Brexit mess.
And yet they're losing support.
Let's just say that again. Somehow, in the face of the most under-fire PM in memory, he is losing support. How is that even possible?
Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing and this is one of those times.
Tick. Tock.
He is in the same position as May with a split electorate meaning whatever he does is wrong.
But, of course, Labour voters and members are not up for the no deal smash industry and ignore the outer world style exit… Tory members and voters are. So if stalemate in Parliament results in that, it is likely that Labour will lose support more than the Tories do. One Leader is playing to her audience. The other is ignoring his.
TJ, I'd have had him speak truth to power and argue for remain. Just think how much further on we might be by now if he'd done that for the past two years. It's not like the Tories were ever going to agree on any sort of a sane deal in the meantime.
Let’s just say that again. Somehow, in the face of the most under-fire PM in memory, he is losing support. How is that even possible?
Because overall brexit in any of its form is only popular with a tiny minority, if you support one or none then you are unpopular.
In terms of tick tock....
The PM has the timetable.
I’ll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point.
I get the game he's playing, I just dispair at it all. That it's come to the point where politicians won't openly say what they think.
Labour are just as bad as the Conservatives in that they are all playing games whilst the world burns.
Well r4 today just have JRM on sounding like a comedy interview.
And yet they’re losing support.
Let’s just say that again. Somehow, in the face of the most under-fire PM in memory, he is losing support. How is that even possible?
No they are not, remember how the last election went. If another election is called then the same will be done again and support will be built up again. No point wasting energy on it outside of that time as just fighting against a biased media for no gain.
I’ll ask again. What would you have Corbyn do at this point.
Something. Anything. If he wants to deliver Brexit, he should endorse May's deal. It's a shit sandwich, but there is nothing better out there except Remain. His six test Brexit has just as many unicorns as any hard right Tory fantasy. It is non-deliverable, and is simply there as a stick to beat the government with.
If he truly does not think May's deal will do, he should wholeheartedly back Remain.
There comes a point when he should start acting like a PM in waiting and stop simply watching the Tories implode, as it has long since stopped being entertaining on a party political level.
Imagine John Smith tearing into this issue, or Blair, or even Brown. Hell, even Milliband would be making a better fist of this.
A lot of what he says makes sense in the normal toing and froing of politics. These are not normal times. This is a national crisis, and requires leadership from somewhere. He is not a leader.
No they are not, remember how the last election went. If another election is called then the same will be done again and support will be built up again. No point wasting energy on it outside of that time as just fighting against a biased media for no gain.
Are you saying they're only popular when they're trying to be popular? At other times it's just too much effort?
What would you have Corbyn do at this point.
Resign?
As a former member of this forum said - "we lost, get over it".
As a former member of this forum said – “we lost, get over it”.
The unresolved question is 'how badly are you prepared to lose?'
Corbyn is unelectable in the UK as it stands.
He should have resigned.
Corbyn is unelectable in the UK as it stands.
He should have resigned.
That's what people said before the last election - Tory landslide was predicted here ....
That’s what people said before the last election – Tory landslide was predicted here ….
He wasn't elected tho - we are in massively strange times, this issue is beyond whatever colour you are in parliament. As others have said - even if Corbyn was a staunch remainer, then to come out as the leader of a split party would be political suicide.
Labour are currently a massively ineffectual opposition, all the problems in the Tory party aren't from Labour turning the screw on the deal, or their actions, they are all self inflicted wounds. It's a complete meltdown. We need a reset.
Tories still in power though. It doesn't matter if gap is 50 or 10 points in the poll.