^ + 1 tj
Alice is a remainer, the queen is a leaver.
"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
"You couldn't have it if you did want it," the Queen said. "The rule is jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam to-day."
"It must come sometimes to "jam to-day,""Alice objected.
"No it can't," said the Queen. "It's jam every other day; to-day isn't any other day, you know."
"I don't understand you," said Alice. "It's dreadfully confusing."
The painful truth is that the vast majority of British households will be better off out of the European Union with a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn than in the European Union under the yoke of a Conservative government led by anyone.
Blimey. Its as fanciful as the hard brexiters dreams.
Whenever THM posts about "accepting the decision" or "getting on with it", All I see is weakness.
How anyone would willing accept the misery that this has caused our fellow Europeans is beyond me.
I think many of us Europeans who can remember the difficulties caused byt volatile exchange rates and vulnerable currencies are more than happy to have Euros in our pockets rather than Francs or whatever.
The main losers are currency traders - do you do any of that, THM?
"Bespoke deal"
It's bound to be isn't it? Considering no-one has done such a stupid thing before.
The painful truth is that the vast majority of British households will be better off out of the European Union with a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn than in the European Union under the yoke of a Conservative government
Possibly. But we have not been offered that binary choice, as far as I'm aware.
Well we were offered the choice albeit in two stages, the referendum and the General Election. As the article says the referendum result led to the events of the general election and we wouldn't have had one if it wasn't for the result in the referendum.
Sometimes if you want something to happen you need to stick your neck out or just accept the status quo.
I'll take a Conservative government, in the EU, over what Corbyn can do outside the EU, any day. And I voted Labour. Their manifesto costings pretended the loss of government revenue due to Brexit was peanuts. Deluded or deceitful… you choose.
That piece smacks of the "smash the system to bring on the new red dawn" side of left wing politics that should stay on the pages of the Socialist Worker.
Nail, head, hammer there Kelvin!
Really? To quote someone else in a previous post, with comrades like you....
I thought it was quite measured. I guess you wouldn't like this one from before the referendum then.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/eu-and-other-neoliberal-nightmares
I'm not sure if Prof Weeks hasn't noticed, but we still have a Tory government
Labour menifesto was all carefully costed and its yearly cost was less than the bung to the DUP in total.
For all the abuse that Jambas gets and yet we have more posts like this
Labour menifesto was all carefully costed
Is there not a point at which posting things that are patently untrue becomes embarrassing? not even a tad? Do you and others actually believe this stuff, do you not bother to check if its true or do you simply not care if it's untrue. Is it the Jefferey Archer syndrome? Now wonder the SNP get away with their shenanigans......
Kelvin both the comments you objected to earlier are true. We are seeking a bespoke deal rather than choosing to adopt any of the four pre-existing ways of engaging with the EU. And yes, whether we like it or not, Brexisit does mean Brexshit. It's just the form that is uncertain along with the timetable.
Time to get with the game.
Likewise, the form of a "bespoke deal" is as nebulous as you like… no deal, remain, bespoke deal… the only three options… all possible deals on leaving are "bespoke deals". All the other countries with EEA involvement have their own deals, as do all countries with strong customs and trade arrangements. All bespoke deals. The thing is … "bespoke deal" just means "a deal" … it says nothing of the form, content, or compromises involved.
bespoke deal
Brexit means Brexit
red white and blue Brexit
...
I should probably add… we have a bespoke deal now.
But, we have not sought the EEA option - a least not from the outset. We have rejected the off-the-shelf options, hence the antonym is........a [_______] one
So,if we do not adopt an exitsting off the shelf deal, what type of deal will we have?
X post - we do, a bloody good one, and one that wont be bettered
Shame that a majority of folk didn't vote to keep it, isn't it?
what type of deal will we have?
An expensive one
[img] 
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Probably lies as it's in the torygraph
But enjoyable that it will have have plenty of brexies frothing over their kippers tomorrow morning
over their kippers
Bravo 😉
Pun-tastic there Kimbers - like it.
what type of deal will we have?
Any deal we get will be a bespoke deal… a bespoke deal is a bespoke deal… repeating the term ad nauseum doesn't give it more morning.
Morning, meaning… whatever.
morning means breakfast!
£36Bn? It's David Cameron's bequest to the nation.
morning means breakfast!
> small round of applause <
£36Bn?
The current PM has been VERY careful not to draw any redlines, or back herself into any corners, when it comes to an exit bill, or continuing payments to the EU. Unlike some ministers who stood in front of the red bus. Her most pragmatic move.
so we offer as a starting point 36 billion. What will our actual payment be? Its clear the EU negotiators are getting totally fed up with the lack of progress. NO deal gets more likely day by day and how couldany responsible ( Ha! ) politician think this acceptable.
Second referendum please
The EU, as always are pretending to negotiate but putting your in a neck lock first instead - read Varoufakis for how this is done in detail.
We know the opening gambits and we know where the deal is likely to be struck. No need to get hung up on the noise. The final number is simple being flagged to test public opinion. Predicted 30-40 on here ages ago.
The more important question is what is committed by both sides once this hurdle is crossed, It's a negotiation after all...
But even the 36Bn is only offered as part of a trade deal, which only provokes the obvious question (on the side of the EU negotiators)...what will the UK pay for brexit without any trade deal?
However 2nd ref (at this point) is a bonkers idea. Once we have a specific deal a yes/no vote on that would be reasonable. What we will actually get is months of acrimonious politicking and no real progress, followed with a governmental implosion and shame-faced retraction of A50, but only after huge damage has been done.
Except there's a clock ticking on A50; to have a second referendum before that expires the government would need to do something fairly soon.
from other thread
sorry THM its was 2025 not 2050 b4 we break even from Brexit 😳
but that study also predicted that growth wouldnt slow & real wages wouldnt start falling until after brexit, which is making it seem overly optimistic already
*Surprised no-one has commented on Tusk's comments the other day. Strong words.
[url= https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-politics-tusk-idUSKBN1AJ2TO ]ExitPol?[/url]
* 😆
sbob - Member
*Surprised no-one has commented on Tusk's comments the other day. Strong words.
ExitPol?*
is this another thing where you brexies predict that [s]austria[/s] [s]holland[/s] [s]france[/s] poland are about to leave the EU and make it collapse ?
😆
still Plexit? wouyld please all the little Englanders as then all those pesky Poles would have to leave the UK, regardless?
Also see that EU looks like its witholding 4bn of pre-accession funding from Turkey
The piece above about the eu considering kicking poland out is the start of thr maneuvering/softening people up to cover the future loss of membership fees from the uk IMO.
The piece above about the eu considering kicking poland out is the start of thr maneuvering/softening people up to cover the future loss of membership fees from the uk IMO.
The exit bill will almost cover their next funding round entirely!
is this another thing where you brexies predict that [s]Austria Holland France[/s] Poland are about to leave the EU and make it collapse ?
No, this is just another example of how posting anything that doesn't state 100% allegiance to the EUtopia will get you called a "brexie", despite repeatedly pointing out the opposite.
THM gets the same, despite consistently and overtly being pro-remain but anti-euro.
I guess some people are just too closed minded and entrenched to accept such possibilities. 💡
As it happens, this is of particular interest to me due to having Polish family, but also an excuse to use the terms "ExitPol" and "EUtopia". 😆
seeing as Tusks words were reported virtually no where and, despite his position, are part of his own personal dispute with Kaczynski, Im not surprised it wasnt commented on here, or virtually anywhere
especially when us remoaners have had so much more juicy brexishambles tidbits to complain about like Davis hopeless start to negotiations, Gove giving away fishing rights or us offering a divorce bill we can ill-afford...
EUtopia. 😆
you are chewk and I claim my free box of frogs
well aware you claim to be antibrexit but your continued clutching at straws to prove a point has forced me to recategorise you as on of [b]THEM[/b]!
Sbob - I never realised you weren't a Brexy. Pretty much everything you've posted has seemed Brexy but if you say you're not I'll happily believe you.
On the other hand I can tell that THM isn't a Brexy because of what he posts. I disagree with him on many things and I suspect we both feel slightly dirty when we agree, but EU generally good, euro generally bad, FoM generally good - he's consistent and IMHO correct.
On FoM, the immigration policies the likes of Jamba propose with hurt the working class far more than FoM by installing a thick glass ceiling.
If I recall correctly, roughly 17m people voted Leave last year.
If everyone who voted Leave were to surrender their tax free personal allowance for one year (currently £11,500 for 2017-18) then the treasury would be able to stump up £39bn to settle our accounts with the EU.
I'm very in favour of this.
[edit] 17.4 million people, thus surrendering a total of £40.1bn. That gives enough change to pay for Dr Liam Fox's round the world trade deal jaunt. He could even bring a friend along, too.
igm - MemberSbob - I never realised you weren't a Brexy.
I was a fence sitter early on, probably leaning towards leave due to my Polish side not wanting to be ruled by the Germans. 😆
I weighed up the pros and cons and voted to remain. 🙂
Pretty much everything you've posted has seemed Brexy but if you say you're not I'll happily believe you.
I don't see the point in only discussing the pros of EU membership just to be on the winning side of the argument, and I have stated that I voted to remain almost as many times as kimbers has used the phrase "little Englanders". 😉
I don't see the point in only discussing the pros of EU membership just to be on the winning side of the argument,
actually we're on the losing side (well everyone loses thanks to brexit I suppose)
actually we're on the losing side
We?
I'm hopefully going to be eligible for at least two *EU passports, I'm European as ****; full mongrel. 😆
*don't.
Sbob - honest mistake on my part. I've missed you saying you voted to remain, but hey there's probably a lot of stuff on here I've missed over the years.
Perhaps I just find THM easier to engage with - and don't take that as a derogatory statement, different people warm to different argument styles. Actually I quite enjoy arguing with Jamba too - well most of the time, occasionally he rubs me up the wrong way but that's probably mutual
blows a kiss at IGM
(Can't remember, what is it that we tend to disagree on?)
You're an evil right winger, I'm a bleeding heart champagne socialist liberal lefty.
Something like that.
And you may have suggested that 26" isn't the future.