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Ok so after hearing all the arguments from maybot 1.0 in her press campaign and now she's had a firmware update i reckon we should all leave and stop being silly
What is the reason for writing “apply” it’s not a given.
In the same way as I'm entitled to a passport, but still have to apply for one.
Anyway I know this is the Brexit moan thread. I hope it helps for some to let of a bit of steam about the whole mess. But that only works up to a point, the level of bile, negativity and actual hatred on this thread is borderline poisonous. For your own well being I'd recommend some of you reign it in a bit. Me I'll duck out of this thread for now untill things are a bit clearer.
I do hope you are as insulated from this debacle as you assume.
Hopefully we will see you safe and well on the other side.
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A lot of hysteria and a lot of hate on this thread!
My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through
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really depends on the sector you are in
Here in cancer research 3 big things are the loss of EMA meaning that Pharma is shifting (actually already shifted) certfication work to continenet, leaving us at a dissadvantage,
Funding,>10% of all accademic funding is via EU, government have pledged to match existing projects, but science has to plan 3-5 years ahead to keep teh money coming & access to EU grants has become much harder, even Welcome are threatening to cut UK funding which would be very bad for my sector</span>
FOM, weve already seen big drop in EU students at universities & that is not good for fininaces & EU job applicants have definitely dropped off & many have already left, whist ever tighter visa restrictions on ROW mean for 1st time, we are struggling to recruit good candidates (similar to whats being seen in NHS)
Other than that general economy is showing worrying trends, inflation has taken £bns frome economy & pockets- personal debt now at record levels & this has follow on effects on high street etc, theres a lot of companies that didnt need this extra hit right now, (not saying brext is only cause just another factor)
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My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through
That'll fix things.
[ sticks head back in sand ]
Some in my family have sorted their joint citizenship ready for whatever happens. Anyone with their family or work extending beyond our little borders that can do so, should do the same.
In this house we have manipulated just in time prescriptions to allow us to have a small store of insulin. Medical equipment that we get direct from Ireland and Holland will be doubled up before our exit date.
Prepare.
Maybot been rebooted? Don’t feel sorry for her; to quote “Tuckered” on FB (sorry Mods, hope the filter does its job)
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Don't you dare start feeling sorry for Theresa May.
This is the woman who misplaced a dossier on paedophile MPs, sent Nazi style '**** off home' immigration vans out on to our roads, made the invited windrush generation that helped us rebuild a post-war country feel like second class citizens, sacked 20,000 police officers and pushed successfully for a snoopers charter.
Yes, the blades are out from her colleagues, in what's turning out to be a shit week of the long knives, but that is to be expected, after all, it was the plan all along.
No one wanted to negotiate the un-negiotable, to go down in history as the person who ****ed the UK. Cameron didn't, and that's why he scarpered quicker than a pig at an Eaton bash.
May is the Patsy, the fall-guy. The Tories just found the most stubborn ' bloody difficult woman' they could. Someone motivated purely by self interest, and power-hungry enough to cling-on like a failed trapeze artist with one last shot at the big time.
She's served her purpose and fulfilled her destiny, soon to be discarded like a used condom.
Forget Brexit for a minute though, let's concentrate on her premiership which is just a continuation of Cameron's.
We know about homelessness doubling, the rise of foodbanks, the use of zero hours contracts to manipulate true employment figures, and we know about the astounding levels of poverty in the 5th largest economy in the world.
And now it's been confirmed.
The UN has just reported that there's 14 million people living in poverty in the UK. They labelled the government's benefit changes callous, unnecessary, and easy to reverse.
So don't weep for that stone-hearted animated cadaver, dancing for your affections like a fat stripper on her first night, because she a ****.”
Greg Clark admitted on R4 this morning that transition as non voting member (vassal state in mogglodyte) could be extended to 2022, but said only if necessary (last time they said that it was immedieatel extended to 2020)
The NHS where I work is already struggling with a loss of EU recruitment. this is only going to get worse. 1000 applicants a month less already. Non of these posts earn enough to get visas.
So next big question....
Where is all the money coming from? We have already spent more than we pay in to the EU.
We are forecast to spend more for a good few years so how are we going to pay for it all?
You know Business as Usual, no real impact and all that
Where is all the money coming from?
magic money tree?
Can we presume that these 48 letters must have been sent via Yodel and are now sat behind a bush in the 1922 Committee's next-door neighbours garden?
Or that Moggy and his noisy Brexiteers have, once again, failed to get the numbers, as even most of his own party recoil in horror at the distraction of a pointless no confidence vote at this point, which May would win comfortably anyway. Given the horrendous alternatives available.
I can't believe there's anyone left in the country who credit these idiots with a shred of credibility, but apparently there are
It's not hard, they have the numbers, but are holding back to use it as pressure on the PM. And, yes, their archaic secret club rules allow this… 1922 chair just sits on the letters and repeatedly asks the ringleaders if they're ready for the vote. They aren't… and May will be betting they won't be this side of us "Leaving".
their archaic secret club rules allow this…
actual footage of the Tory leadership slection procedure can be found online
Companies don’t issue visas governments do.
i will admit that our short system is generally no worse than other countries long system but if you are a government mandating the long style we don’t check all the boxes. Forms, faceless officials and AI don’t reason…
The crux of the conversation comes from what is a good degree. One guy I worked with said get a first from a top 10 uni and you will be fine… I didn’t get a first btw…
I've beaten a Cambridge graduate with a first in an interview - it turns out that my lecturers were right, the requisite marks will get you through the doors - but being able to hold a conversation, show depth of thought and sell yourself and ideas is what takes you further.
I have never seen a points based Visa system that discounts British degrees, whilst the most important element of gaining a visa abroad is having the relevant work experience and a job offer in the first place.
If you're applying for a job and relying on a good degree to get through a selection process that is based on faceless officials and A.I sorting - you're doing something wrong in the first place. Linkedin, your lecturers connections, your connections from your work experience all count more and you shouldn't be applying for some shit faceless role in the first place.
Can we presume that these 48 letters must have been sent via Yodel and are now sat behind a bush in the 1922 Committee’s next-door neighbours garden?
Yodel - definitely. Not Royal Mail, though, that's socialism dontcha know.....
No, Yodel is definitely much more fitting - poor service and poorly paid, unmotivated workers in a perpetual downward spiral whilst huge profits are being creamed off the top - into individual pockets.
What you didn't mention is that the parcel of letters has also been nicked, but the local police don't have the resources to investigate anything short of serial killing, so no dice there. However, the senders have decided that 'technology' is the answer, but they can't quite get the hang of email (their 1950s nostalgia won't let them perceive it is possible), so maybe Maybot is off the hook.
If you’re applying for a job…
We're talking about Visa applications, not job applications. If you've never worked on a large scale IT or engineering project dogged by rejected or expiring visa applications for key, accepted, vetted, highly employable, staff… then you've been lucky (or benefitted from EU/EEA staff not having to get visas).
It seems the Brexiteers have a new word and are attempting a re-branding exercise. They've been dropping the words 'Global Brexit' at every available opportunity today.
No doubt as it sounds a bit better than 'No Deal Brexit', 'Chaotic Brexit', 'Disorderly Brexit' and 'we're all completely *ing *ed Brexit'?
"Global Britain" is what the cunning Dominic Cummings rejected as the message for the campaign he was at the centre off. His work with focus groups showed it gained no traction, and wouldn't have got Leave the win. Hence all the "control", "money given away" and NHS stuff that proved to be useful at winning over swing voters.
"Global Brexit" could win over hardened Brexit pushers in the upcoming votes in parliament, but won't win another referendum (if it happens).
Anyway, May is now aping "jobs first" message of Labour front bench, and focusing on immigration. She's after the support of certain backbench Labour MPs for her withdrawal deal, I suspect.
And theres a good article by John Harris on the ongoing uselessness of Jeremy Corbyn in Todays Guardian
Brexit is class betrayal. So why is labour colluding in it?
We’re talking about Visa applications, not job applications. If you’ve never worked on a large scale IT or engineering project dogged by rejected or expiring visa applications for key, accepted, vetted, highly employable, staff… then you’ve been lucky (or benefitted from EU/EEA staff not having to get visas).
But that's the UK visa system, which is one of the daftest in the world right? Someone give me an example of a country that does not recognise UK degrees? The only example I can think of is India, which recognizes French one year masters but not British ones as equivalent to their own - this is down to rea politick and geopolitical factors not the degrees themselves. India uses this as an economic bargaining chip, because their own masters programs are quite frankly mostly terrible,
Currently though, the UK visa system is not so daft as to not recognise the validity of UK degree courses.
Why should people with degrees be the only people afforded the opportunity to work abroad, it is just thinly disguised class warfare. University education has now replaced the 11+ in reducing opportunities for life.
Well, this is the most important point… expensive hoop jumping to get visas is just a pain for the well off… whereas it can be a completely insurmountable hurdle for many others… visas are nothing like the FoM opportunities soon to be denied to British kids… all in the name of the "will of the people" (who on the whole don't want those opportunities to be removed anyway).
this is down to rea politick and geopolitical factors not the degrees themselves
Err… that is exactly the point already made. It's not really about the quality of the degrees, is it.
Why should people with degrees be the only people afforded the opportunity to work abroad, it is just thinly disguised class warfare.
Because they decided to limit their own opportunity to work abroad, by denying others of the same.
Here's to hoping someone goes one step further and creates a man made island where the rest of us can **** off to and create some technoutopia without the interference of idiots. A real life Ricklantis.
All for a bit of class warfare now.
Nah, you will just be ruled over by the oxbridge crowd like you are now.
They’ve been dropping the words ‘Global Brexit’ at every available opportunity today.
Nah, the phrase in pretty much every interview recently has been 'Clean Brexit', as a bid to polish the turd that is no deal.
But that’s the UK visa system, which is one of the daftest in the world right? Someone give me an example of a country that does not recognise UK degrees? The only example I can think of is India,
When I took up a job in Germany they needed me to have at least an MSc in order to be recognised as a graduate equivalent to someone from their degree system. This was despite me having a PhD!! In the end I was able to produce a letter saying that I had fulfilled the equivalence of an MPhil as part of my PhD studies, and they were happy with that.
When I took up a job in Germany they needed me to have at least an MSc in order to be recognised as a graduate equivalent to someone from their degree system. This was despite me having a PhD!! In the end I was able to produce a letter saying that I had fulfilled the equivalence of an MPhil as part of my PhD studies, and they were happy with that.
That seems to fly in the face of the principle of equality of treatment for all EU citizens - freedom of movement but with protectionist small print.
Even as a remainer, I find that a hard pill to swallow, considering the amount of European students who get onto UK PhD programs or postdocs.
I don't think things like that have helped the British feel European, maybe we should have spent more time lobbying for recognition and shown people that the EU meant opportunity, perhaps we did? I'm ignorant of the background to this though!
I should have said that it was (way) back in 1994. I also had to give up my UK driving licence and exchange it for a German one as the common EU-wide driving license wasn't introduced until some time later.
Just an observation....
Other brexit "orientated" blogs/forums have gone into meltdown as the brexit bods are busy eating their own.
Non Brexit 'orientated" blogs have gone quiet on the subject..
Looks like the internal conflicts over hard brexiting have opened up.
Interesting that the decision to accept Mrs Mays deal will sit with the Tory faithful....
Ooohh the torment....
Hard brexit goes wrong - unelectable for a long time...
Soft brexit goes wrong - JRM starts a new facist party....
Sit back and enjoy
I've heard (reliably) that one of the UK's most prominent and reputable research institutes is advising visitors to lie at immigration as they can't get enough visas for them.
Thank god the grown ups were behind the scenes all the time, eh?
I’ve heard (reliably) that one of the UK’s most prominent and reputable research institutes is advising visitors to lie at immigration as they can’t get enough visas for them.
That would not surprise me at all.
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I’ve heard (reliably) that one of the UK’s most prominent and reputable research institutes is advising visitors to lie at immigration as they can’t get enough visas for them.
Nothing new there- just the hostile environment doing its thing.
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But that’s the UK visa system, which is one of the daftest in the world right? Someone give me an example of a country that does not recognise UK degrees? The only example I can think of is India, which recognizes French one year masters but not British ones as equivalent to their own – this is down to rea politick and geopolitical factors not the degrees themselves.
You have hit the nail on the head here. It is about a political factor. If s government says you need 4 years to complete a bachelors and in the uk we say you only need 3 they either have to admit their system is worse or more likely they will say that our degrees do not hold as much depth. This of course only really holds for countries of equal social standing (Europe,us etc). No one wants to admit some other country does it better...
as others have said they often just discount the UK degree to one below. This was the case for me in both Europe and the US. Now there are some dispensations for oxbridge as there is prestige (do not read as quality or competence) associated.
The point is not that if you will not 100% be unable to do move for work but that the playing field is not level and we operate a different system (duration, grading, teaching style) which is often not understood. So to say it will be easy for the best and brightest when it is already sometimes hard and stressful os misleading.
for the record I have masters and phd from imperial college and have spent just over the last 10 years bouncing around the globe and some of the visa paperwork statements regarding education are pretty depressing reading when you think about all the time it took me... mind you having a massive company behind me meant if I was a fish I would probably still get the visa.
PhDs are definitely treated as equivalent in Germany, when visiting there I was given a big form of legalese to fill in if I wanted Dr on my door badge. They are very fussy about such things.
Other things to make you feel good. If you don’t have a degree taught in uk, USA, Australia, Canada and only have a C in English language at the gcse or equivalent level you may not qualify as an English speaker of sufficient quality so get to take the English as a foreign language tests.. your work experience does not matter...
So to say it will be easy for the best and brightest when it is already sometimes hard and stressful os misleading.
If this is the case though, under soft Brexit with closed borders - the students will probably find it easier to get PhD's and good graduate roles here if the economy doesn't tank and the government make up some of the funding shortfall.
I know of one research department in London, headed by a Spaniard with all the research posts filled by Spaniards or Portuguese researchers.
Do such departments exist in Germany but with English research staff?
If we end up staying in, I want to see equivalency sorted if it is still an issue in Europe.
The obsession with immigration and getting the best is depressing, we need all sorts of people, for all sorts of jobs including cleaning up shit and wiping tables, picking veg and designing our next IT infrastructure.
Do such departments exist in Germany but with English research staff?
Do English researchers speak German? It is often our lack of language skills can hold us back but I have seen researchers from the UK dotted around the place. Perhaps also our willingness to leave home for work
i would say diversity of educational backgrounds, cultures and country breeds better research
There are lots of European agencies across Europe with many British staff, and the working language is frequently English, as the most common second language English is often required before the local language. .
Do English researchers speak German? It is often our lack of language skills can hold us back but I have seen researchers from the UK dotted around the place. Perhaps also our willingness to leave home for work
i would say diversity of educational backgrounds, cultures and country breeds better research
I agree.
But I'm not entertained by paying a ****ing fortune for my degree, which is three years because we specialise at A-levels to a much greater extent - to be told it's not equivalent. Remember, British youngsters have loads of debt as well - unlike their euro counterparts. We give equivalency to most eurozone countries, which does not seem to be reciprocated.
We give equivalency to most eurozone countries, which does not seem to be reciprocated.
In a general sense yes, it is not a blanket we treat each country slightly differently. We get treated differently because we have a different system. People understand their system and think it is good (because they studied in it) do something different will always be looked at differently. It’s never as easy as just rocking up and getting everything sorted.
some might say we specialise early which is good and others would argue that the longer degree with a general one or two years at the start makes for a better more rounded graduate...
the UK is (or was) a very open country for people to come and work. The fact we work in the same language as we live can help. They might speak English in the offices in Europe but the suppliers and shop floor will most likely not.
the students will probably find it easier to get…
With reduced international staffing, our weakened universities won't get the projects, or the funding, they currently do, and opportunities for "our" students will be reduced here. This whole zero sum outlook towards immigration, and jobs, and opportunites is depressing (and wrong).
The Dup sent a warning to the pm last night. Doesn't look good for the deal
On the other side Spain are also making noise about Gibraltar
A couple of days ago I'd have said May had no chance of getting this deal through parliament, now I'm not so sure.
If its this or a no deal, then they HAVE to vote it through. Its as simple as that. Theres an awful lot of posturing going on, but its all from people who simply don't have the numbers.
If we're staring into the abyss (which we sort of are already) of no deal then Corbyn will have no chance of whipping his MPs to vote for that. It may be what Jeremy has always dreamt of, but no party members support it (what happened to this fabled 'democracy he was so keen on then, eh?) and all but about 4 of his MP's won't vote for no deal under any circumstances.
Its said that Corbyn is trying to use parliamentary process to engineer it so that if this is voted down it won't mean no deal. I have no idea how he intends to achieve that. He's no chance. Its increasingly looking like its this or nothing. Labour won't want to be held culpable for the chaos of a no deal (no matter what Pro-Hard Brexit Jezza thinks personally)
The Tory's are the same. This week has shown how weak the ERG and the rest of the nutters really are. They make an awful lot of noise and get a lot of media coverage (from a rabidly pro-Brexit press) but at the end of the day they can't even get the numbers together for a no confidence vote. Theres no chance they'll get a vote through for a no deal Brexit. The majority of Tory MPs are still pro-remain.
And the DUP have just found out that they've served their purpose, but now its genuine business time, are now surplus to requirements
The Pro Brexit press may hang off every word Boris or Rees Mogg says, but they're a tiny parliamentary splinter group who can't put 48 letters together. This all hinges on the Labour party. Will Corbyn carry on with this ludicrous "I'll pretend I'm a remainer while whipping my party for a hard Brexit' stance, or listen to his MPs and his fabled 'membership' or MPs. I think if he tries to force through anything that will bring about a no deal and he's finished. And not before time.
Whatever we end up with is going to be the least worst option. I mean WTF did people expect? It was always going to be thus.
And I think cooler heads are starting to realise that this, no matter much worse it is than what we presently have, is the best we're going to get. And a no deal is unthinkable to all but a hardcore of nutters - who it would appear, thankfully, number less than 48.
Well that showed those bloody meddling EU bureaucrats, didn't it, eh?
An amendment saying that if the house(s) agree to the withdrawal agreement, it will then be put to the electorate in a referendum to approve, or reject and remain, is the only route through this. You know who won't countenance that though. The fact that the actual replacement for EU membership still hasn't been properly framed makes this a harder call though. It's just the off ramp that's being argued over here, not where we are going. Brexit fans would be mad not to except the withdrawal deal… as it could still mean that multiple contradictory Brexits are in play. The only hope is that the waverers might be aware now that this will be long, messy, and without the upsides suggested a couple of years ago, and go for abandoning it.
A couple of days ago I’d have said May had no chance of getting this deal through parliament, now I’m not so sure.
If its this or a no deal, then they HAVE to vote it through. Its as simple as that. Theres an awful lot of posturing going on, but its all from people who simply don’t have the numbers
This
May's in no hurry to have the vote either as the later she leaves it, the more potentially catastrophic no deal becomes & MPs know this.
Of course the trade off is that businesses & government have to start no deaa prep thats short term costly, as well as long term damaging to our reputation & may force relocations regardless.
But it's very clear that the important thing here is that May & the Tories keep their grip on power, the welfare of the nation obviously just an afterthought.
As binners says this will get through..
280 Tory Mps
15+ Labour Rebels
25 labour abstentions?
Lib dems?
One thing thats an interesting development as well, which hasn't really been reported by the press over here is that the Irish government are leaning heavily on Sinn Fein to take their seats in parliament for this vote.
I'd love to see the look on Arlene Fosters face if they do 😀
No chance at all of this going thru parliament and the alternative is remain. A no deal brexit no only would be dissterous for the country - it would be dsasterous for the tories and they know it
There is not going to be significant number of labour rebels - even Hoey says she will vote against. DUP will vote against, some tories will vote against. SNP will vote against, Lib dems will vote against. Majority of 50 - 100 against.
Labour policy is clear and bears no resemblance to what binners says. 1) vote down the bill. 2) Attempt to force a GE. If 2 does not work then 3) amend legislation / put forward a bill for a second referendum.
Labours position is also to remain in the customs union and close to the single market. A position that would go down much better in EU capitals thn Mays position and no doubt at all they would be happy to extend a50 to allow a new government time to do something more sensible.
I still await the quotes from Corbyn that sustain this myth he is a hard leaver. As yet no one has come up with anything. they cannot because its simply not true.
Is the alternative remain? It really should be but I am not sure they have the guts for that...
the trouble with this deal is it is a halfway house. You lose a lot of benefits and still are not “free”. The papers and the Euro sceptics have free rein to say this is holding us back and crippling the country. It will build resentment but will this manifest as pro leave or pro join EU? I honestly don’t think as a country if we get half out we would join up again losing our current privileges.
Honestly with a holistic long term view if we can’t remain I am not sure crap deal is better than no deal. In the short term it certainly is..
Labour policy is clear and bears no resemblance to what binners says. 1) vote down the bill. 2) Attempt to force a GE. If 2 does not work then 3) amend legislation / put forward a bill for a second referendum.
The time to suggest a referendum is in the upcoming vote, when Tory rebels can back an amendment.
After all the Labour game playing has played out… trying to get a general election where Remain is not really an option… an election that would just eat up the time we have left … rebel Tories will simply fall in behind May and back her off ramp deal to save the government (and arguably the country), when time is all but gone to do anything else.
Corbyn wants a Labour Brexit. It won't be happening. By not backing any way out of Brexit, now, he is enabling a Tory Brexit.
I've been thinking that this deal is going to go through since the weekend when it became apparent there wasn't going to be a no confidence vote.
My reasoning is simply that every time parliament has had the opportunity to stop or even put the brakes on (triggering Article 50 and having a meaningful vote, for example) it's been whipped and/or bottled it and carried on regardless.
I've no reason to think they've grown a spine in the meantime.
Labour policy is clear and bears no resemblance to what binners says. 1) vote down the bill. 2) Attempt to force a GE. If 2 does not work then 3) amend legislation / put forward a bill for a second referendum.
Hi there Uncle Jezza. Its the real world here again...
1) vote down the bill.
Labour MPs will not vote for a no deal. Never! Not a chance. No matter what Jezza wants. if its this or No Deal, then everyone apart from the beardy messiah, Kate Hoey and Frank Field will vote it through
2) Attempt to force a GE
Yeah... right. Not happening. Not in a million years. Well... 4 years to be precise. Its like me saying I'm going to force a gold-plated unicorn to appear in my back garden. Unless you can tell me how Jezzas going to manage that....? How he's going to 'force' a general election? By concentrating really really hard? Getting Uri Geller in?
Why do you think there has been no vote of no confidence so far. Because divided shambles that they are, there is no way on earth the Torys are about to gift Labour a general election. Not a chance. can I have my gold-plated unicorn now please?
3) amend legislation / put forward a bill for a second referendum.
Again... how? Have you missed the bit about needing a parliamentary majority to do any of that? They can table amendments, sure. The government can then tell them to **** off
Christ only knows what planet you Corbynistas live on if you think any of this is any way a workable policy. It isn't! Wake up FFS?!!
But then it was never meant to be. Bottom line is Jezza wants a hard Brexit. You lot just don't want too/won't acknowledge this. LA LA LAAAA... WE'RE NOT LISTENING!!!!
He's not going to get one. His MPs won't vote for it. Only the hard right ERG headbangers will. It'll be good to see those lot trooping through the lobby together. Jezza and Rees Mogg up front, Kate Hoey and IDS in step behind. At that point you Momentum lot might actually wake up and reacquaint yourselves with reality.
i'll not hold my breath
Jezza will lose any credibility he has if his own party does vote for Mays deal - depending on how many rebels swing it.
I'd like to see Starmer in charge anyway.
I want Lammy as Labour leader, and a complete shuffle at the top. But that's just as irrelevant as wanting May replaced with another blue leader. The clock is ticking. No new leaders… no new set of MPs… the current crowd need to say…
"OK, this is the best deal our government can get. Will will support it if the public are consulted on it, and given the straight choice between this withdrawal deal, with its loose outline proposals for a future relationship, or calling the whole thing off."
At no point is it a case of this deal vs no deal. There is always the option of postponing or withdrawing A50. That option is never off the table in any legal or absolute sense, it is just not current govt policy.
binners, your continuous anti-corbyn diatribes are extremely boring. Can you think of something else worthwhile to contribute to the thread please?
Sorry to bore you but IMHO Corbyn was just as much responsible or this car crash as Boris Johnson. Now, more so.
And the people still supporting his ridiculous position are gullible beyond belief
I'm not sure Captain Jezbags would manage to turn up to vote, let alone get a co-ordinated party response.
I dont think many labour mps give a **** about what jezza thinks and bear in mind many represent brexit constituencies and an abstention is as good as a vote for Mrs May.
I think it will float,the folks who are shouting it down are few in number.
Don't agree with Binners' assessment. I think the Labour whips will sow enough doubt to ensure enough Labour MPs either vote against or abstain rather than vote for. Principles tend to melt away in these circumstances.
And no-one has proposed a vote on no-deal. No deal will simply happen in the absence of approval for something else.
We can all hold out hope that MPs will get their act together to defer or withdraw A50 in the event that May's proposed agreement is voted down, she resigns etc. But prior experience of their collective competence doesn't make that a given.
Whatever happens, I think that the total shambles we've seen over the last week is going to be nothing compared to whats going to happen when it comes to the vote. Because the infighting is going to re-emerge big time in the labour ranks as push really comes to shove, and the Tory party is likely to go into full on civil war mode. Last weeks blood-letting is going to loo like a minor tiff in comparison. No doubt while the pound goes into freefall and business bolt for the exit
Something to look forward too eh?
One thing thats an interesting development as well, which hasn’t really been reported by the press over here is that the Irish government are leaning heavily on Sinn Fein to take their seats in parliament for this vote.
I’d love to see the look on Arlene Fosters face if they do
Now THAT would be brilliant!
Yes, interesting times. One thing I really struggle to get my head round is how people can still want to "take back sovereignty" when our parliament shows itself to be so totally incompetent on a daily basis. When did the EU ever do such a bad job?
Thats what I can't get my head around either.
The powers that be in Brussels have played a blinder, delivered exactly what they said they would, more in fact, while being totally united in representing the interests of their citizens.
Meanwhile, in the UK, from both government and opposition, we've had 2 solid years of...
As already mentioned ^^ those that were spouting the 48 letters were IN, were indeed Wrong.
Its always good to follow the facts, not this current speculative Press release world we live in.
As far as the “vote” goes, my predictions are it will go through. Maybot will continue through to the deal being released and implemented and she will be lauded for her steadfast and steady hand, then resign and the ensuing incumbent will force a general election and the Tory’s will loose and the whole political landscape will change once again.
Lets not forget the amount of money and time this shambles is taking up.. makes you wonder what MPs actually did before this fiasco.. begs the question if that’s the case the UK could save a whole load of money and make them redundant and consolidate a lot of what they do and outsource it to the large well funded Customer Service centres in the EU/Old Easten Block/India.
I’ll happily Programme Manage that If they want, for a massive fee obviously 🤪
Theres some absolute bell end from the ERG being interviewed on Five Live. These people are totally and utterly detached from any semblance of reality. Its quite staggering just to what degree.
He's saying that May should go back and DEMAND their have cake/eat it proposal. He still hasn't registered that we're in no position to be demanding anything. I think he thinks he's running the East India Company, or something, and he's telling the bally natives how things are going to be from now on!
He's no answer as to why they can't manage the 48 letters. Mind you.... he hasn't got an answer as to anything, that doesn't involve magic unicorns
Jesus, these people are truly as thick as mince.
Labour do of course have idiots like Flint who has said she will vote with May for this deal. NOt because she believes its right or a good deal but because she is scared of racists in her constituency. I do agree that the infighting in labour will come out into the open. You have those with doubts about the EU but who on balance want to remain in or as close as possible - Like Corbyn ( who lets not forget campigned remain, spoke at more public meetings to more people than anyone else during the campaign). They will vote it down as this deal is too damaging with no upsides., You have rabid outies like Hoey who will vote it down as its not extreme enough. You have idiots like Flint who will vote for it as they are stupid, spineless and scared of their racist voters
Labour is as badly split as the tories over this
Corbyn has consistently said he will vote down this deal. His and labours official position is to " respect the will of the people" but remain much much closer to the EU
The tories will never allow a no deal to happen - they know they would be finished as a party if that happens and if the tories know anything its that party comes first.
Meanwhile:
"The UK Supreme Court has refused the UK Govt permission to appeal the Scottish courts referral to CJEU of the question of unilateral revocability of Article 50. The case will proceed in Luxembourg on 27 Nov. A vindication of Scots & EU law"
Maybe we can have the No Brexit solution.
Maybe - sigh.
If and when it becomes clear that we can revoke A50 at the 11th hour unilaterally, things really will go down to the wire. This would not even require a vote in parliament, since the previous vote authorised (did not mandate IIRC) her to do so.
Of course there is the possibility that the court rules otherwise, but I don't expect it.
His and labours official position is to ” respect the will of the people” but remain much much closer to the EU
Come on TJ, who are you trying to fool? He's trolling us by intending to do the very opposite of what he says. What he really wants is an off the cliff no deal brexit, because even though all his MPs, shadow cabinet, party members, supporters, trade union backers, and most labour voters all oppose that, that's what will allow him to unilaterally usher in the great communist revolution which the 20th century missed out on. Or maybe he's actually just pro-soft brexit like he says he is? I guess we'll find out soon enough. I know what I'm putting my money on. 😉
Or maybe he’s actually just pro-soft brexit like he says he is?
He doesn't even says he is.
End of FoM is his repeated red line.
The leaders of both main parties happy to pretend that was the issue voted on in 2016, and that the result was conclusive. It wasn't, and it wasn't.
Corbyn?
Judge a man by his actions, or rather when it comes to Brexit......his in-actions!
Rees Mogg is still agitating for his 48 votes this morning. Apparently he's got the numbers. Yeah, right, you haunted Victorian pencil
Meanwhile, the award for the most detached from reality Tory of the lot goes to..... Former Cameron Blue Sky Thinker Steve Hilton
you really couldn't make this shit up!
I'd like to see a Cameron/Blair face-off 🙂
I have to say, during this whole cluster **** I haven't paid any attention to a single thing JC has said, he's an utter irrelevance, a pointless turd of a man. Leader of the opposition? don't make me laugh.
Four MPs (all medical professionals) trying to table the amendment for the public vote between the government's "deal" and remaining (it really is the only possible way out of this now).
More talk like that ad you'll find yourself in the gulag, comrade.
Apparently Corbyn campaigned relentlessly during the referendum. Who knew? Theres us mistakenly thinking he sloped off to the allotment for the duration.
And allegedly he's been 'holding the government to account' since then. In much the same way as my dining room table has, one can only presume
I'll look forward to the socialist revolution then, as it looks like its all pretty much in the bag. I guess we'll see him again when he returns victorious from the allotment. March maybe?